OrthodoxChristianity.net
July 25, 2014, 02:17:18 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: syro malabar and chaldean catholic  (Read 1684 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
samkim
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese of North America
Posts: 735



« on: March 22, 2012, 04:52:35 AM »

How similar are the liturgies of the Chaldean Catholics and the Syro Malabar Catholics? It seems like theoretically they should be very similar.

Presumably, since they are both Catholic, these particular churches ought to have a good relationship with each other, right? But it seems odd that they are separate bodies in the Catholic Church, since they have historic connections.
Logged

주 예수 그리스도 하느님의 아들이시여 저 이 죄인을 불쌍히 여기소서.
Cantor Krishnich
High Elder
******
Online Online

Faith: Eastern Orthodox Christianity
Jurisdiction: Pan-Orthodox Christianity
Posts: 540


Mar Ahmed the Daftadar


« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2012, 06:31:57 AM »

The liturgies are very similar but their area also many differences. Similar to the Assyrian Orthodox and Malankara Indian Orthodox Churches being similar yet with differences.

The liturgical practices are almost identical in text, actions, and theory. However the chant tradition and many other church traditions are very different mainly because of culture differences. The chant tradition of the Syro-Malabar Church is very similar to Carnatic Indian music, Chaldean chant is very similar to Syriac and Persian music. The architecture and vestments of the clergy of the two churches are also quiet different.

Both the Syro-Malabar Church and Chaldean Church are in communion with each other and with the Church of Rome(Catholic Church).

Here is a link of a clip of a Chaldean liturgy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=UUJUaOrmIqu-IcdqStrK065w&feature=player_detailpage&v=INouqp4uaKQ

Here is a link of a video of a Syro-Malabar liturgy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=r6pyE_OEZQc
Logged

Most Holy Theotokos, Save Us!
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, Have Mercy Upon Me a Sinner!
Alpo
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox. With some feta, please.
Posts: 6,497



« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2012, 06:46:15 AM »

the Assyrian Orthodox

Pardon for nit-picking but the Holy Apostolic Catholic Assyrian Church of the East doesn't refer herself as "Orthodox" and it is traditionally deemed as heretical by the Orthodox of all variety i.e. EOs, OOs, Old Calendarists, New Calendarists etc.
Logged
sheenj
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Indian/Malankara Orthodox Syrian Church
Posts: 1,400


St. Gregorios of Parumala, pray for us...


« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2012, 07:35:50 AM »

the Assyrian Orthodox

Pardon for nit-picking but the Holy Apostolic Catholic Assyrian Church of the East doesn't refer herself as "Orthodox" and it is traditionally deemed as heretical by the Orthodox of all variety i.e. EOs, OOs, Old Calendarists, New Calendarists etc.
I think he was referring to the Syriac Orthodox Church, whose use of the West Syrian Rite is similar to but distinct from the Malankara use practiced in India.
Assyrian (Asuryoyo) is basically a synonym for Syriac (Suryoyo).
Logged
Alpo
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox. With some feta, please.
Posts: 6,497



« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2012, 07:45:01 AM »

the Assyrian Orthodox

Pardon for nit-picking but the Holy Apostolic Catholic Assyrian Church of the East doesn't refer herself as "Orthodox" and it is traditionally deemed as heretical by the Orthodox of all variety i.e. EOs, OOs, Old Calendarists, New Calendarists etc.
I think he was referring to the Syriac Orthodox Church, whose use of the West Syrian Rite is similar to but distinct from the Malankara use practiced in India.
Assyrian (Asuryoyo) is basically a synonym for Syriac (Suryoyo).

D'oh! Even more apologies for nit-picking then.
Logged
Cantor Krishnich
High Elder
******
Online Online

Faith: Eastern Orthodox Christianity
Jurisdiction: Pan-Orthodox Christianity
Posts: 540


Mar Ahmed the Daftadar


« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2012, 06:00:02 PM »

the Assyrian Orthodox

Pardon for nit-picking but the Holy Apostolic Catholic Assyrian Church of the East doesn't refer herself as "Orthodox" and it is traditionally deemed as heretical by the Orthodox of all variety i.e. EOs, OOs, Old Calendarists, New Calendarists etc.
I think he was referring to the Syriac Orthodox Church, whose use of the West Syrian Rite is similar to but distinct from the Malankara use practiced in India.
Assyrian (Asuryoyo) is basically a synonym for Syriac (Suryoyo).

D'oh! Even more apologies for nit-picking then.

Thats ok! But, yes...I was refering to the Syriac Orthodox Church of Antioch and the East (they use the West Syrian Rite and are in communion with Alexandria (the Coptic Church). 
Logged

Most Holy Theotokos, Save Us!
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, Have Mercy Upon Me a Sinner!
Deacon Lance
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Byzantine Catholic
Jurisdiction: Archeparchy of Pittsburgh
Posts: 2,878


Liturgy at Mt. St. Macrina Pilgrimage


« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2012, 09:19:10 PM »

Both the Chaldean and Syro-Malabar Catholic Churches share the same base Liturgy of Mar Addai and Mari.  Both have revised the Liturgy and the Syro-Malabars are probably the most latinized Eastern Catholic Church.  The texts are below with the Assyrian for comparison.

Syro-Malabar Liturgy text:
http://www.knanayaregion.us/liturgy/englsih_mass.pdf

Chaldean Liturgy text:
http://www.kaldu.org/14_Reformed_ChaldeanMass/ReformedMissal_Eng.html

Assyrian Liturgy text:
http://web.archive.org/web/20061206003428/http://www.cired.org/liturgy/apostles.html
Logged

My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.
Jetavan
Most Humble Servant of Pan-Vespuccian and Holocenic Hominids
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Christic
Jurisdiction: Dixie
Posts: 6,285


Barlaam and Josaphat


WWW
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2013, 12:53:34 PM »

Beneath colorful banners and jeweled umbrellas, hundreds of men, women and children dressed in native attire stood assembled in the parking lot of the Syro-Malabar church on 24th Street, appropriately enough, near Thomas Road.
....
After purchasing an office building and gutting the interior, the Syro-Malabar community was able to establish its own church which was named Holy Family. Much of the work on the building was done by parishioners. Bishop Jacob Angadiath ventured from the Syro-Malabar diocesan headquarters in Chicago for the dedication ceremony and opening liturgy Nov. 2.
....
Bishop Angadiath blessed the altar and the walls to the left and right of the sanctuary as well as the sacred vessels with chrism. After the Mass, chanted and prayed entirely in Malayalam except for the Our Father rendered in English....

Bishop Thomas J. Olmsted of the Phoenix [Arizona, U.S.] Diocese, pointed to the “rich Catholic culture that traces itself back to the preaching and heroic witness of St. Thomas the Apostle” in the modern-day state of Kerala in the south of India, the birth place of many of those who belong to the new parish.
....
There are 27 Syro-Malabar dioceses in India and one in the U.S., with headquarters in Chicago.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2013, 12:54:33 PM by Jetavan » Logged

If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.
Tags:
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.056 seconds with 34 queries.