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Author Topic: HH Pope Shenouda III has Reposed in The Lord  (Read 27261 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #90 on: March 22, 2012, 08:59:46 AM »

After the conclusion of last night's pan-Orthodox Vespers, Archbishop Nathaniel stated that we would be now serving a panachida for the repose of Pope Shenouda III.  He spoke a few words about him, and told a story of how he had met him....

When deciding which Bishop's Staff to bring with him for this weekend, he picked a rather sturdy, yet simple, wooden one.  At the time he had not known that Pope Shenouda had passed away.  He heard the news as he entered the church for services, and said it touched him, because the staff which he had picked, was gifted to him by Pope Shenouda.  

Your Archbishop served a service, in the Church, for someone outside of it?
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« Reply #91 on: March 22, 2012, 11:06:42 AM »

CoptoGeek linked a beautiful hymn about Blessed Shenouda here:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,9840.msg724256.html#msg724256
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« Reply #92 on: March 22, 2012, 01:44:49 PM »

http://allafrica.com/stories/201203220204.html

RCC Pope Benedict XVI's message of condolence.
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« Reply #93 on: March 22, 2012, 02:16:01 PM »

After the conclusion of last night's pan-Orthodox Vespers, Archbishop Nathaniel stated that we would be now serving a panachida for the repose of Pope Shenouda III.  He spoke a few words about him, and told a story of how he had met him....

When deciding which Bishop's Staff to bring with him for this weekend, he picked a rather sturdy, yet simple, wooden one.  At the time he had not known that Pope Shenouda had passed away.  He heard the news as he entered the church for services, and said it touched him, because the staff which he had picked, was gifted to him by Pope Shenouda.  

Your Archbishop served a service, in the Church, for someone outside of it?


Is outrage!  This is a case for Hyperdox Herman:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,43223.msg713451.html#msg713451
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« Reply #94 on: March 22, 2012, 03:46:37 PM »

After the conclusion of last night's pan-Orthodox Vespers, Archbishop Nathaniel stated that we would be now serving a panachida for the repose of Pope Shenouda III.  He spoke a few words about him, and told a story of how he had met him....

When deciding which Bishop's Staff to bring with him for this weekend, he picked a rather sturdy, yet simple, wooden one.  At the time he had not known that Pope Shenouda had passed away.  He heard the news as he entered the church for services, and said it touched him, because the staff which he had picked, was gifted to him by Pope Shenouda.  

Your Archbishop served a service, in the Church, for someone outside of it?


Is outrage!  This is a case for Hyperdox Herman:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,43223.msg713451.html#msg713451

Poke fun, but I do think it is a serious matter, because it promotes the false belief that the EO and OO are one Church.
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« Reply #95 on: March 22, 2012, 05:42:57 PM »

After the conclusion of last night's pan-Orthodox Vespers, Archbishop Nathaniel stated that we would be now serving a panachida for the repose of Pope Shenouda III.  He spoke a few words about him, and told a story of how he had met him....

When deciding which Bishop's Staff to bring with him for this weekend, he picked a rather sturdy, yet simple, wooden one.  At the time he had not known that Pope Shenouda had passed away.  He heard the news as he entered the church for services, and said it touched him, because the staff which he had picked, was gifted to him by Pope Shenouda.  

Your Archbishop served a service, in the Church, for someone outside of it?


Is outrage!  This is a case for Hyperdox Herman:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,43223.msg713451.html#msg713451

Poke fun, but I do think it is a serious matter, because it promotes the false belief that the EO and OO are one Church.

the way I look at it is if the EP can do a Trisagion for Pope John Paul II when he passed, we can do one for Pope Shenouda as well. 
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« Reply #96 on: March 22, 2012, 05:48:17 PM »

After the conclusion of last night's pan-Orthodox Vespers, Archbishop Nathaniel stated that we would be now serving a panachida for the repose of Pope Shenouda III.  He spoke a few words about him, and told a story of how he had met him....

When deciding which Bishop's Staff to bring with him for this weekend, he picked a rather sturdy, yet simple, wooden one.  At the time he had not known that Pope Shenouda had passed away.  He heard the news as he entered the church for services, and said it touched him, because the staff which he had picked, was gifted to him by Pope Shenouda.  

Your Archbishop served a service, in the Church, for someone outside of it?


Is outrage!  This is a case for Hyperdox Herman:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,43223.msg713451.html#msg713451

Poke fun, but I do think it is a serious matter, because it promotes the false belief that the EO and OO are one Church.
Why don't we drop this topic while we are ahead? This thread is to commemorate the life and death of HH Pope Shenouda, not to discuss ecumenical affairs.
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« Reply #97 on: March 22, 2012, 06:05:30 PM »

Poke fun, but I do think it is a serious matter, because it promotes the false belief that the EO and OO are one Church.

Serious or not, it's a matter for another thread.
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« Reply #98 on: March 22, 2012, 09:54:48 PM »

Poke fun, but I do think it is a serious matter, because it promotes the false belief that the EO and OO are one Church.

Serious or not, it's a matter for another thread.

completely agree.   police
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« Reply #99 on: March 22, 2012, 10:02:08 PM »

His Holiness' letter to the Church, to be released post-mortem:

Quote
I am your father and teacher, all of you are my children, listen to my commandments, for I ask you my beloved children, preserve and holdfast to the faith of the Holy Trinity.

I ask you my beloved children, love one another with a true love.

I ask you my beloved, do good with all humanity.

I ask my beloved children, do not let the world deceive you.

I ask you my beloved children, do not fall short or “be not eager” in the service of the Lord.

I ask you my beloved children, to pray without ceasing and tirelessly.

I ask you my beloved children, preserve your tongues from causing any division.

I ask of you my beloved children, to preserve the Holy Baptism that was granted to you.

I ask of you my beloved children, preserve your body pure for the Lord.

I ask of you my beloved children, do not let your  the light of your lamps to be extinquished.

I ask of you my beloved children, preserve the commandments that God gave to you.

I ask of you my beloved children, that the fear of God be within you.

God is my witness, my beloved children, that I did not keep any of God’s words from you…that I never sleep,  my beloved children while there was blame between me and anyone of you.

If you keep what I have told you, you will crush the head of the serpent and dragon.

If you keep what I have said to you, you will eat of the goodness of the earth.

If you keep what I have said to you, the luminous Cherubim will guard you.

If you keep what I have said to you, you will never lack of the Heavenly gifts.

I ask of you my beloved children, to ask of Christ for my soul, that it may have comfort in front of Him, and do not count my short comings, unknowingly and unwillingly.

 

 (Then he directs his talks to the Bishops, clergy and priests)

I ask for your love and I plead to your Reverence, to absolve me from you all.

And now, I am far from you and left you, and I cannot see your faces. And now I ask of you all, that you labor yourselves in prayers for me, and remember me  in the Holy Liturgies, that my Master may accept me to Him, and forgive me.

And I ask Christ, the Great Shepherd of Shepherds, that He may elect for you a righteous shepherd according to His Will and heart, that He may shepherd you and your matters and watch over the salvation of your souls.

Pope Shenouda III

Source information provided (-Serb1389) :
« Last Edit: March 23, 2012, 05:19:17 PM by serb1389 » Logged

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« Reply #100 on: March 23, 2012, 02:17:36 PM »

A letter from the priests at St. Mina's Church in Holmdel, NJ, to the news website Patch.com:

http://holmdel.patch.com/articles/letter-st-mina-s-coptic-orthodox-church-mourns-passing-of-their-pope

Quote
During his Papacy, the Coptic Orthodox Church which had begun expanding outside of Egypt, grew at a greater pace and His Holiness appointed the first ever Bishops to preside over North American dioceses that now contain over 200 Coptic Orthodox Churches in the USA, including St. Mina’s Coptic Orthodox Church. Further, His Holiness’ continued work in Christian education continued as he published over 100 books in both Arabic and English.
 
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« Reply #101 on: March 23, 2012, 05:12:02 PM »

I apologize I forgot to provide a link of the Pope's last message.  I copied and pasted it from here:

http://holmdel.patch.com/articles/letter-st-mina-s-coptic-orthodox-church-mourns-passing-of-their-pope

The message originally read at his funeral here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=gaFnxr1r70c

Translation video from CYC here (translation is off in a few places, which is why I copied and pasted the Holmdel Patch translation better):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxY_lN1Ta9k&feature=plcp&context=C4164062VDvjVQa1PpcFOZstqe-jA6Ou3JHTNeFWY0SExx0JRXsXM%3D
« Last Edit: March 23, 2012, 05:19:03 PM by minasoliman » Logged

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« Reply #102 on: March 24, 2012, 03:33:08 PM »

An article about the requiem held in Armenia by Karekin II:

http://www.armenianchurch.org/index.jsp?sid=3&nid=2048&y=2012&m=2&d=21




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« Reply #103 on: March 24, 2012, 04:23:16 PM »

After the conclusion of last night's pan-Orthodox Vespers, Archbishop Nathaniel stated that we would be now serving a panachida for the repose of Pope Shenouda III.  He spoke a few words about him, and told a story of how he had met him....

When deciding which Bishop's Staff to bring with him for this weekend, he picked a rather sturdy, yet simple, wooden one.  At the time he had not known that Pope Shenouda had passed away.  He heard the news as he entered the church for services, and said it touched him, because the staff which he had picked, was gifted to him by Pope Shenouda.  

Your Archbishop served a service, in the Church, for someone outside of it?


Is outrage!  This is a case for Hyperdox Herman:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,43223.msg713451.html#msg713451

Poke fun, but I do think it is a serious matter, because it promotes the false belief that the EO and OO are one Church.

It depends on one's ecclesiology, and also one's place in history. There have been several cases of greater or lesser unity since 451.
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« Reply #104 on: March 24, 2012, 04:37:22 PM »

Graciously accord, O Lord, to grant His Holiness rest in the region of the living forever, in the heavenly Jerusalem, in that place from whence all sickness and sighing have fled away.
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« Reply #105 on: March 24, 2012, 06:54:28 PM »



(Thanks to Mina for providing these words of H.H. Pope Shenouda III)


Selam

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« Reply #106 on: March 24, 2012, 09:06:43 PM »

Beautiful setting for the poem, Gebre. Well done.
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« Reply #107 on: March 24, 2012, 10:08:40 PM »

Is it true that this is a standard part of the liturgy for the burial of a Patriarch, and not a letter that H.H. left to be read?

I apologize I forgot to provide a link of the Pope's last message.  I copied and pasted it from here:

http://holmdel.patch.com/articles/letter-st-mina-s-coptic-orthodox-church-mourns-passing-of-their-pope

The message originally read at his funeral here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=gaFnxr1r70c

Translation video from CYC here (translation is off in a few places, which is why I copied and pasted the Holmdel Patch translation better):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxY_lN1Ta9k&feature=plcp&context=C4164062VDvjVQa1PpcFOZstqe-jA6Ou3JHTNeFWY0SExx0JRXsXM%3D
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« Reply #108 on: March 24, 2012, 10:32:39 PM »

Is it true that this is a standard part of the liturgy for the burial of a Patriarch, and not a letter that H.H. left to be read?

I apologize I forgot to provide a link of the Pope's last message.  I copied and pasted it from here:

http://holmdel.patch.com/articles/letter-st-mina-s-coptic-orthodox-church-mourns-passing-of-their-pope

The message originally read at his funeral here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=gaFnxr1r70c

Translation video from CYC here (translation is off in a few places, which is why I copied and pasted the Holmdel Patch translation better):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxY_lN1Ta9k&feature=plcp&context=C4164062VDvjVQa1PpcFOZstqe-jA6Ou3JHTNeFWY0SExx0JRXsXM%3D

No, this wasn't a standard.  This is according to the bishop who read the letter a letter written by His Holiness towards the end of his life, to be read after his passing.

The funeral was interesting.  There was a usual Coptic formality of funeral prayers for a bishop/patriarch mixed in with some informalities from the Ethiopian and Syriac prayers and eulogies.  The letter of His Holiness is an informality, as well as the message by the Acting Pope Metropolitan Bakhomious, which was an improv on his part, and was well put together.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2012, 10:36:49 PM by minasoliman » Logged

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« Reply #109 on: March 24, 2012, 10:59:16 PM »

thanks, salpy for that news.
here is an extract from the english version:
At the beginning of the service, the Catholicos of All Armenians reflected on the blessed memory of Patriarch Shenouda, leader and shepherd of the Coptic Orthodox Church, and his  productive decades of service. “Through His efforts and devotion, the Coptic Orthodox Church experienced a renaissance through the founding of new churches, dioceses, parishes, and educational and charitable institutions.  His pontificate was marked by a revival of the ancient monastic tradition of the desert fathers.” His Holiness stated in part.

http://www.armenianchurch.org/index.jsp?sid=3&nid=2048&y=2012&m=2&d=21&lng=en
very lovely of them to do that.
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« Reply #110 on: March 24, 2012, 11:41:24 PM »

Metropolitan Pachomius, our acting Pope, giving the ending eulogy of the Pope, at the end of the funeral:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=evPUU6DJp_Q

A translation of the eulogy of Metropolitan Pachomius (the acting Pope) at the funeral of His Holiness, one of the most significant moments of this week:

In the name of the Coptic Church and her Holy Synod, with the hope of the resurrection, we bid farewell to His Holiness, our beloved father, our shepherd of shepherds, our archpriest of archpriests, our teacher, our father, the thirteenth apostle, His Holiness, our beloved father, Pope Shenouda III. With the hope of the resurrection, we bid him farewell.

[Applause]

And, my beloved, we are consoled by the departure of our father, on whose hands we were raised for more than 50 years. For he has lead the church since the first half of the past century. He has left a great treasure in the life of the church, if not the whole world. His Holiness, our beloved father, whose fatherhood we cherish, we shall not forget his work with us in our church. For he lead the church as a wise and skillful commander, he lead revivalist thought by the work of the Holy Spirit, and he preserved the church in its renaissance without digression. He preserved the church in its revival by the power of prayer. Liturgical prayers increased in the monasteries and the churches, and he undertook great work by the power of the Holy Spirit.

He effected a revivalist movement in the church when he published sound Orthodox teaching. So theological institutes increased. Thus Orthodox thought spread in all the corners of the inhabited world representing the thought of His Holiness, whom we cherish.

He lead the revivalist movement in the Coptic Church, and in his time, he consecrated by his hands many of the youth in the whole world. And there was great and strong guidance in the churches and institutions. This was powerful work, through the effect of the Holy Spirit, through whom He worked powerfully, for he is a man of the wilderness, a man of prayer, a man who taught, and a man who guided. And we shall not forget, to the end of the age, what Pope Shenouda has done in the life of the whole church and other churches.

[Applause]

My beloved, words cannot describe our beloved, our leader, and our shepherd, by whose hands we were reared. He left us an example of leadership. He was the prophet Moses of his time. He was the Joshua of his time. He was Nehemiah. He was John the Baptist. He was Paul the apostle. His leadership had an effect on the whole world.

His wise leadership made his children believe in the legitimacy of national unity. So he was a leader in national unity in our country.

[Applause]

By the power of his effective and authoritative work, he unified the churches of the world. Thus, there are [ecumenical] dialogues. And today we see in our midst our brothers from various churches in the whole world. The [Roman] Catholic Church, the Greek Orthodox, the Ethiopian churches, the Syrian churches, the Lutheran churches, the Anglican churches. It is this assembly, as a result of his wise leadership, in which we see our Christian brothers from the world, as well as our Muslim brothers from the Middle East, from the Arabian peninsula, and from Egypt. This is the fruit of the powerful command which Pope Shenouda III enjoyed. He is an example of leadership!

[Applause]

The work Pope Shenouda has undertaken required that he make disciples out of many. His age is the most significant age we have experienced in consecrating youth. They became his students that they would evangelize, become servants of the Word, and their voices spread throughout the inhabited world.

For words, my beloved, cannot describe the truth of this beloved man!

[Applause]

For words cannot describe what Pope Shenouda has accomplished in his generation! But this voice will persist until the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ in His Glory. He hears a voice today saying, “Enter into the joy of your master.”

[Applause]

And we pray! We pray that he might intercede for us, and that we might inherit with him a portion of the heavenly glory. And so we bid him farewell on the hope of the resurrection.

We say to him, “Go, our father, into the place of your rest! Remember us before the throne of grace. Pray that the Lord may complete our days in peace, just as your days were completed in peace.”

To our God is due all glory and honor, now and forever, Amen.


From a facebook friend:
http://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=675440486677&id=198600321


What amazes me in this whole speech is the commanding voice of this Metropolitan, truly catches the attention of a loudly mourning people.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2012, 11:49:59 PM by minasoliman » Logged

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« Reply #111 on: March 24, 2012, 11:47:37 PM »

I found this, which described a memorial service for His Holiness in the UK:

http://orthodoxbrit.tumblr.com/post/19843819231/pope-shenouda-iii-memorial-service-stevenage
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« Reply #112 on: March 25, 2012, 05:00:50 AM »



(Thanks to Mina for providing these words of H.H. Pope Shenouda III)


Selam




Thanks you so much for having posted his words  Smiley
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« Reply #113 on: March 25, 2012, 04:05:22 PM »



(Thanks to Mina for providing these words of H.H. Pope Shenouda III)


Selam



People are starting to call this letter, "HH Pope Shenouda's Will"
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« Reply #114 on: March 25, 2012, 04:14:14 PM »

HE Metropolitan Bishoy, giving the Synodal decree lead by HE Metropolitan Bakhomious (Pachomios) on what will happen next.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvKw9KHcYT0&feature=plcp&context=C464abe4VDvjVQa1PpcFOZstqe-jA6OitQOpNjjSQZUSyQ4NAYOOQ%3D

In essence, the decrees are the official naming of the Locum Tenens, Metropolitan Bakhomious of Beheira and the 5 Western Cities, that no candidates or election process would be presented until the 40th day commemoration of the Pope, and that the nomination and candidate registrations will be processed according to the canon laws of 1957 and 1971, and the process shouldn't take more than 2 months.

Process of electing new Pope explained here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4BDg9lQd6c
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« Reply #115 on: March 26, 2012, 02:04:36 AM »



(Thanks to Mina for providing these words of H.H. Pope Shenouda III)


Selam



People are starting to call this letter, "HH Pope Shenouda's Will"


Someone on facebook told me that this was not His Holiness's personal letter, but rather a standard letter of the Church that is read at the funeral of all departed Patriarchs. Do you know if this is true Mina?


Selam
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« Reply #116 on: March 26, 2012, 02:16:58 AM »



(Thanks to Mina for providing these words of H.H. Pope Shenouda III)


Selam



People are starting to call this letter, "HH Pope Shenouda's Will"


Someone on facebook told me that this was not His Holiness's personal letter, but rather a standard letter of the Church that is read at the funeral of all departed Patriarchs. Do you know if this is true Mina?


Selam

The bishop clearly said this is written by His Holiness Pope Shenouda to be read to his spiritual children.  Unless they standardized Pope Shenouda's letter at some time, at the very least the authorship I clear by the bishop who read it.  Anyone who knows Arabic can confirm this when listening to him.
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« Reply #117 on: March 26, 2012, 02:23:43 AM »

The video of the Funeral Service. It's about 2 1/2 hrs long.

صلاة جناز قداسة البابا شنودة  (Funeral prayer for His Holiness Pope Shenouda)
http://youtu.be/D8GKvpD696s

Go to 1:26:38 anyone who knows Arabic.  The bishop says "The words I am about to share with you are the words of HH Pope Shenouda, etc etc"
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« Reply #118 on: March 26, 2012, 02:27:23 AM »



(Thanks to Mina for providing these words of H.H. Pope Shenouda III)


Selam



People are starting to call this letter, "HH Pope Shenouda's Will"


Someone on facebook told me that this was not His Holiness's personal letter, but rather a standard letter of the Church that is read at the funeral of all departed Patriarchs. Do you know if this is true Mina?


Selam

The bishop clearly said this is written by His Holiness Pope Shenouda to be read to his spiritual children.  Unless they standardized Pope Shenouda's letter at some time, at the very least the authorship I clear by the bishop who read it.  Anyone who knows Arabic can confirm this when listening to him.

OK, thanks Mina!


Selam
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« Reply #119 on: March 26, 2012, 08:58:31 AM »

I couldn't help but be moved by this picture.

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« Reply #120 on: March 26, 2012, 09:13:31 AM »

Mina, someone kindly posted this in another forum:

I am your father and your teacher [of the faith]...
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/s720x720/532196_189567047825215_100003157632301_306557_2133043173_n.jpg

The sermon does appear to be part of the funeral rites given in the name of the deceased Patriarch.
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« Reply #121 on: March 26, 2012, 09:53:07 AM »

Mina, someone kindly posted this in another forum:

I am your father and your teacher [of the faith]...
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/s720x720/532196_189567047825215_100003157632301_306557_2133043173_n.jpg

The sermon does appear to be part of the funeral rites given in the name of the deceased Patriarch.
Interesting...so confusing.  If this is true I stand corrected
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« Reply #122 on: March 27, 2012, 04:36:24 PM »

Memorial Service of HH Pope Shenouda in St. Mary's Coptic Church, East Brunswick, NJ, March 25, 2012:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=wPO4RdWD8bY#!

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« Reply #123 on: March 29, 2012, 09:36:10 AM »

Here's a short news clip (in Armenian) of the Requiem Service by HH Karekin II.  Salpy posted some pictures of it above.

Requiem Service for His Holiness Shenouda III, Patriarch of the Coptic Orthodox Church

On March 21, in the Mother See of Holy Etchmiadzin, under the Presidency of His Holiness Karekin II, Supreme Patriarch and Catholicos of All Armenians, a requiem service was offered for the recently departed His Holiness Shenouda III, Patriarch of the Coptic Orthodox Church, Pope of Alexandria and the Patriarch of All Africa on the Holy Apostolic See of Saint Mark.

http://youtu.be/Znt6AHGHe38
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« Reply #124 on: March 30, 2012, 06:44:09 PM »

Quote
I personally would agree with Stavro on this one.  Whenever a bishop was chosen to the Papacy, they were not "ordained" but rather "consecrated" or "celebrated" into the position.  Only HH Pope Kyrillos VI was "ordained" into the papacy since he was only a priest monk Fr. Mina at the time of his choosing.  But I personally do not like the idea of "general bishops", nor do I wish that a bishop be put into the Papacy despite the contemporary precedents.  I also believe the voting should be changed a bit.  Why not include the church priests, deacons, and archdeacons of the world, as well as those who are in charge of service and prominent church committee members?  Why this conspicuous and nowadays useless "Maglis Millee"?  I don't know...but we shall see.  According to my father, who was in his late teens and a Sunday School teacher at the time of transition into the new Pope, it wasn't a bright moment for the Church, unfortunately.

I actually agree with you on every single word above, which is the first time in 10 years.

We inherited the Maglis El-Meli from the Turkish time which constituted of traitors and sell-outs who were spies for the occupier and made the life of the poor Pope miserable. Upon the request of Pope Kyrillos, it was disintegrated and removed by President Nasser in 1960's, and their members turned over to investigation regarding numerous financial discrepancies. I am not sure when it came back to existence, but nowadays its members are the fat Coptic cats, billionaires, or Coptic politicians, who exercise their political influence inside the Church.

The reason voters do not include prominent servants or deacons (if we have any left) is their independence and difficulty to influence to vote for this bishop or the other. Bishops are candidates and members of the election committee in the same time, in a clear conflict of interest, and  they put the rules that serves their candidacy best. They sit on the candidate nomination council and exclude all prominent monks who might pose a threat to their candidacy.

Quote
As for HG Bishop Youannes, I have no view of him except that I enjoy his tasbehas.  That's pretty much it.  I'm not fond of his sermons, but I've never seen anything wrong with them.  But he does have his controversies with the people of things that I am not fully aware of to judge completely

You will have the next 40 years of his blessed Papacy to judge.

 
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« Reply #125 on: March 30, 2012, 07:14:12 PM »

Quote
The reason for this is that his ordination as a Patriarch, can be seen as an addition to his diocese, and not a transfer, assuming that no bishop is ordained in his place, as was the case with our late patriarch.

1. Does this Bishop get the gift of the Holy Spirit to be the bishop of the annexed Patriarchate? In what way, if there is no laying of hands?

2. Adding to your existing diocese is what Bishop Meletius did in the Papacy of Peter, Seal of martyrs, adding Alexandria to his bishophery, and this action was the very reason which inspired this particular Nicene canon in the first place.

3. It is a slick way around the canon, and a clever one, but it was never applied in the Church at all. When Pope Timothy forced St. Gregory the Theologian out of Constantinople in 381, when he annexed it to his episcopate, the supporters of the great saint did not use this excuse nor was the saint interested in contesting the council decision. He was corrected, and therefore remained a great saint.

4. Each and every time they want to violate the canons and put one of them on the throne, they come up with all kind of excuses and explanations, and get us debating "annexing versus transfer", "general bishop versus episcopate bishop", and "political necessity and abilities of the bishop that a monk does not have" and so on until ....oooops, we did it again. We have a bishop on the throne of St.Mark, and we have to wait decades until we correct this situation.

5.Can you name one example in which an ambitious bishop who decides to violate the canons has actually left his diocese for a smaller one, or annexed a poor diocese to his richer one, in order to serve it? Never, for it is a career move and a promotion.

Quote
We are simply going through the candidates, requesting God's will to be enforced. Therefore, the only person you are ordering is our Lord, and I find it inconceivable of you to do so, for it is his church and his flock.


There is something called synergy between God and man in Orthodox Christianity, and its model is the incarnation. The Spirit works in those who observe the commandments. Those who openly violate the canons cannot invoke the Spirit in the process when they have just violated the inspired Church canons.

Quote
PS: I do not know who you are addressing when you say "Do not pick Bishop Youaness," for we are not "picking" anyone. 

We are, even by the admission of Pope Shenouda of blessed memory.

We pick and choose because we have rules to regulate the process. We have committees to screen the candidates and supposedly exclude heretics and suspicious nominees, and in most cases rivals, and we have elections. This is the part of men. God's inspires and leads throughout the whole process, and not just at the ridiculous casting lot stage, provided there are men of God involved in the process.

Men of God do not violate the canons of God. Men of God do no knowingly and consciously disregard the divinely inspired Church teachings. When God is out of men, men are left to their own logic which is always brilliant to them , and foolish to God.

In any case, they already decided that bishops of all kinds can be selected. Any discussion should be postponed 40 years when it won't matter to most of us anyways. 
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« Reply #126 on: March 31, 2012, 06:02:19 AM »

if someone else full of love, wisdom and care like our dear reposed pope shenouda 3rd becomes patriarch in apparent violation of some law or tradition, then i will not fight it.
i have several friends who knew baba shenouda personally, and many others who met him several times and from their testimony and from what i have seen of his lectures, poems and homilies, he was able to steer a careful political path in the midst of great persecution. not only that, but he loved all of the coptic people, and indeed all people very greatly and never tired from his fasting and prayer and taking care of those he loved.

even in his last illness, he did not hold back from teaching and guiding God's church, but took care of us all with an open heart and all honesty and love. i have studied church history and been a member of many churches outside the orthodox church and i have never seen a spiritual leader like baba shenouda. may the Lord give him rest and peace as he intercedes for us before the throne of grace.
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« Reply #127 on: April 08, 2012, 10:19:13 AM »

Memory eternal  Sad
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« Reply #128 on: April 29, 2012, 03:28:58 PM »

Two articles after the 40th day commemoration of HH Pope Shenouda came up in Al Ahram talking about the nomination process:

Quote
According to MENA, the favourites so far are Bishop Moussa, the head of Youth Bishopric; Bishop Younas, the secretary of former Pope Shenouda and Bishop Bishoy, the secretary of the Holy Synod. Whilst Bishop Youssef of the South America Bishopric and Bishop Kirollos of Milan have received support from abroad.

The candidacy committee started its work days after services were held across the country to mark the 40th day since the death of Pope Shenouda III.
from http://english.ahram.org.eg/News/40302.aspx

And:

Quote
Assiut Governorate Bishop Abram said on Saturday that seven names have been nominated to succeed the late Pope Shenouda III though elections are to be unveiled on 15 May.
While speaking to Al-Ahram's Arabic site, Abram, the secretary of the candidacy committee, refused to disclose the identities of the candidates who applied to take part in the elections over the past couple of days.
from http://english.ahram.org.eg/News/40364.aspx

So...that's the update thus far.
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« Reply #129 on: April 30, 2012, 03:56:11 PM »

I pray that the election goes well.
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« Reply #130 on: May 02, 2012, 12:44:18 PM »

HG Bishop Angaelos posted this "timeline" of the process for enthroning the next Patriarch

http://twitter.com/#!/BishopAngaelos/status/196157770632937472/photo/1/large
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« Reply #131 on: May 02, 2012, 01:11:19 PM »

I couldn't help but be moved by this picture.


It's things like this that prevent me from giving up hope on living with the Muslims.

Btw, for those wretches who cannot read Arabic, it says "And when he completed the days of his service, he returned to his Father/Lk. 1:23/and He called the saint of the age."
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« Reply #132 on: May 02, 2012, 03:24:12 PM »

HG Bishop Youssef of the Southern US answers the controversial question, "Can a diocesan bishop be elected Pope?"

http://suscopts.org/press/2012/apr/28/can-a-diocesan-bishop-be-nominated-for-pope/
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« Reply #133 on: May 02, 2012, 03:29:22 PM »

I pray that the election goes well.

Me too.
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« Reply #134 on: May 02, 2012, 03:57:34 PM »

Thank you Isa that was quite wonderful! and I too share your sentiment on the rest.

Thank you for the updates everyone. we will continue to pray.
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