Here's Your Chance

[JamesR]

You are possibly converting? That is amazing, good luck with your spiritual journey. Also, I would suggest going with the OCA parish. I know that many people talk badly about it, but the truth of the matter is that there is nothing wrong with it really. I know because I attend one. I would stay away from the Greek Church if I were you, because these ones can be really ethnic and more of a social thing than an actual religious experience.

[Nikolaostheservant]

"I would stay away from the Greek Church if I were you, because these ones can be really ethnic and more of a social thing than an actual religious experience."

WOW!

talk abt steriotyping an entire ethnic groop

[LizaSymonenko]

A member of that Greek parish actually joined this forum having noticed the pings to that website, and personally extended a warm welcome and invite to his church.

I would go with this church. If a parishioner took the trouble to track down the IP address and actually reach out, that parish is definitely not being "ethnic", but is being Christ-like.

I would give them a try.  Their services are also in English.

[Adela]

There's a site called:

 
http://www.theholyeucharist.com/

This site is Dr. Brant Pitre's site and there is a free 72 minute video to watch explaining the ancient Jewish roots of Christian views on the Eucharist. Again, this is a Roman Catholic scholar, but I am posting it because Dr. Pitre has sound credentials with his speciality in ancient Judaism.  This talk focuses alot on acient Jewish beliefs of the Messiah and draws on the prophets of the Old Testament.

Again, others have suggested attending an Orthodox Divine Liturgy, you definately need to do that!     

[primuspilus]

There's a site called:

 
http://www.theholyeucharist.com/

This site is Dr. Brant Pitre's site and there is a free 72 minute video to watch explaining the ancient Jewish roots of Christian views on the Eucharist. Again, this is a Roman Catholic scholar, but I am posting it because Dr. Pitre has sound credentials with his speciality in ancient Judaism.  This talk focuses alot on acient Jewish beliefs of the Messiah and draws on the prophets of the Old Testament.

Again, others have suggested attending an Orthodox Divine Liturgy, you definately need to do that!     

We went over that in Catechesis on Sunday. I had no idea it went back that far. Super interesting.

PP

[katherineofdixie]

"I would stay away from the Greek Church if I were you, because these ones can be really ethnic and more of a social thing than an actual religious experience."

WOW!

talk abt steriotyping an entire ethnic groop

I know the Greeks get a bad rap for this, and I'm not dissing other folks' experience, but my experience has been exactly opposite. The first Divine Liturgy I attended was at a GOA mission parish, most of the service was in English and we were welcomed warmly, invited to coffee hour and Sunday school, midweek Bible study. Several people stayed for a long time afterward to answer our questions.

[Azul]

see these :

http://biblebasicsonline.com/english/Study07OriginofJesus/0701OTPropheciesOfJesus.html

http://www.lamblion.com/articles/articles_bible6.php

http://www.bibleprobe.com/365messianicprophecies.htm

http://brittgillette.com/WordPress/?page_id=21

[JamesRottnek]

"I would stay away from the Greek Church if I were you, because these ones can be really ethnic and more of a social thing than an actual religious experience."

WOW!

talk abt steriotyping an entire ethnic groop

I know the Greeks get a bad rap for this, and I'm not dissing other folks' experience, but my experience has been exactly opposite. The first Divine Liturgy I attended was at a GOA mission parish, most of the service was in English and we were welcomed warmly, invited to coffee hour and Sunday school, midweek Bible study. Several people stayed for a long time afterward to answer our questions.

That is the exact description of my parish.

[Nikolaostheservant]

In all honesty i find then too friendly.
I'm kind a Private person, but you cant be like that if you visit or join a new Greek parish.
They tend to ask all sorts of questions pull you around to show you things, invite you to there homes for coffee.
too much for me (i like being in the background unnoticed)but this is great for a convert or someone inquiring abt Orthodoxy.

[katherineofdixie]

In all honesty i find then too friendly.
I'm kind a Private person, but you cant be like that if you visit or join a new Greek parish.
They tend to ask all sorts of questions pull you around to show you things, invite you to there homes for coffee.
too much for me (i like being in the background unnoticed)but this is great for a convert or someone inquiring abt Orthodoxy.

But seriously folks, how in the name of all that's holy are people who have just met you going to know what your personal preferences for social interaction are?
People don't welcome visitors or talk to them - visitors complain.
People are friendly to visitors - visitors complain

Pick one, people!

[Nikolaostheservant]

Whats your problem?

[primuspilus]

In all honesty i find then too friendly.
I'm kind a Private person, but you cant be like that if you visit or join a new Greek parish.
They tend to ask all sorts of questions pull you around to show you things, invite you to there homes for coffee.
too much for me (i like being in the background unnoticed)but this is great for a convert or someone inquiring abt Orthodoxy.

But seriously folks, how in the name of all that's holy are people who have just met you going to know what your personal preferences for social interaction are?
People don't welcome visitors or talk to them - visitors complain.
People are friendly to visitors - visitors complain

Pick one, people!

Sounds like my wife actually. Her solution, be friendly and brief.

PP

[jewish voice]

I just wanted to give a quick up date I have emailed the Father at St Matthew's and were working on setting up a time up to meet.

[biro]

In all honesty i find then too friendly.
I'm kind a Private person, but you cant be like that if you visit or join a new Greek parish.
They tend to ask all sorts of questions pull you around to show you things, invite you to there homes for coffee.
too much for me (i like being in the background unnoticed)but this is great for a convert or someone inquiring abt Orthodoxy.

But seriously folks, how in the name of all that's holy are people who have just met you going to know what your personal preferences for social interaction are?
People don't welcome visitors or talk to them - visitors complain.
People are friendly to visitors - visitors complain

Pick one, people!

This makes me not want to visit your parish a whole lot.

[Tzimis]

I just wanted to give a quick up date I have emailed the Father at St Matthew's and were working on setting up a time up to meet.

That is good news. You may also want to look here as well.

[Achronos]

"I would stay away from the Greek Church if I were you, because these ones can be really ethnic and more of a social thing than an actual religious experience."

WOW!

talk abt steriotyping an entire ethnic groop

It's true.

[JamesR]

I wish I had a good Greek experience like the ones mentioned. At my parish I noticed that the Greeks are just always happy and seem to not really take spirituality seriously while the Russians are always a bit 'goomier' if you will, focusing in humility and self improvement. There is a Greek Church very close to my family's new apartment we're moving to and I wasn't going to give it a try because I wanted to go to the Russian one which is a bit farther, but I guess I'll give the Greek one a shot. I just cannot get over the lack of piety I have observed among Greek worship, no offense. They are just always happy, celebrating, seeming too confident in their salvation. It worries me. I'm spiritually sick and need help, I do not think that celebration will help me. I need treatment, humbleness and emphasis on improvement and humility, which is why I am more leaned toward the Russian Churches.

[William]

I would stay away from the Greek Church if I were you, because these ones can be really ethnic and more of a social thing than an actual religious experience.

A bit heavy handed coming from someone who has never even set foot in a Greek parish, don't ya think?

[JamesR]

I would stay away from the Greek Church if I were you, because these ones can be really ethnic and more of a social thing than an actual religious experience.

A bit heavy handed coming from someone who has never even set foot in a Greek parish, don't ya think?

Everything I say should be taken with a grain of salt, but I am just stating what I have observed from the Greek members of my congregation and the videos I have seen of Greek worship services.

[Achronos]

As I was telling another member via PM, I had a bad experience with the Greeks. I totally understand how I was treated and have nothing against them. I love their bishops and priests though.

[JamesR]

Greek old ladies are pretty nice. They treat you like a grandson, literally. They'll offer to give you rides, invite you to their house, give you food. Yet, at the same time, they'll expect you to get them coffee, be the first ones to tell you to tuck your shirt in and scold you for bad manners. It makes me feel like they are accepting me as a part of their family.

[mark thomas]

I just wanted to give a quick up date I have emailed the Father at St Matthew's and were working on setting up a time up to meet.

Awesome! Dialoguing with a Priest is the BEST way to learn about Orthodoxy. And, you are very lucky to be in an area with so many different Orthodox churches. If, for whatever reason, you do not relate well with one Priest or parish, you can check out the others. I hope the meeting goes well for you!

[Achronos]

I just wanted to give a quick up date I have emailed the Father at St Matthew's and were working on setting up a time up to meet.

Awesome! Dialoguing with a Priest is the BEST way to learn about Orthodoxy.

Yes. I just want to reiterate that message boards are the worst to learn about it.

[katherineofdixie]

In all honesty i find then too friendly.
I'm kind a Private person, but you cant be like that if you visit or join a new Greek parish.
They tend to ask all sorts of questions pull you around to show you things, invite you to there homes for coffee.
too much for me (i like being in the background unnoticed)but this is great for a convert or someone inquiring abt Orthodoxy.

But seriously folks, how in the name of all that's holy are people who have just met you going to know what your personal preferences for social interaction are?
People don't welcome visitors or talk to them - visitors complain.
People are friendly to visitors - visitors complain

Pick one, people!

This makes me not want to visit your parish a whole lot.

That would be your loss. Of course, I'm pretty biased.

[Asteriktos]

I just wanted to give a quick up date I have emailed the Father at St Matthew's and were working on setting up a time up to meet.

Awesome! Dialoguing with a Priest is the BEST way to learn about Orthodoxy.

Yes. I just want to reiterate that message boards are the worst to learn about it.

   Unless the priest in question is a jerk and has no clue what he's talking about...   ahh, but I forgot, on this forum we pretend like all priests are gracious and knowledgable, and so we can blindly say "ask your priest!" any time an issue comes up 

[JamesRottnek]

James, have you considered the Pharisees?  They certainly seemed to be quite pious, but Christ says that if you are only as righteous as one, you're damned.  I just recently finished reading the book Light in the Darkness, which is a compilation of writings by Sergei Fudel.  Fudel lived over half of his life in Soviet prisons, because of his faith.  However, throughout the book, he is scathing in regard to the false piety of many, many Russians he knew - both before and after the Communists took over Russia.  He repeatedly has passages condemning an outward piety that is without an inward piety.  He writes that he would rather throw out the icons and prostrations and other such things, if people would just be inwardly pious.  He writes about how so many Russians practice the things you "have to do" simply because they feel that they have to and if they do, they will go to Heaven.  He even writes about priests who had no faith, at all, in God, who were atheists, yet prided themselves on being able to perform the services of the Church perfectly, according entirely to the rubrics.

Outward signs mean NOTHING without a true, inward piety.  If you are not truly repentant, you are damned whether or not you appear to be spiritual, whether or not you appear to be faithful, whether or not you follow the rules and regulations of the Typicon, to the tee.  So, if you don't have true faith, true unadulterated Orthodox faith, free of superstition, what does it matter if you follow the rubrics?  You may as well not even come to Church, you may as well eat five pounds of beef every day of Lent, you may as well spit on your priests and bishops, because you have no life in you.

Do not worry so much about outward appearances, worry far more about the state of your soul.

[Tzimis]

James, have you considered the Pharisees?  They certainly seemed to be quite pious, but Christ says that if you are only as righteous as one, you're damned.  I just recently finished reading the book Light in the Darkness, which is a compilation of writings by Sergei Fudel.  Fudel lived over half of his life in Soviet prisons, because of his faith.  However, throughout the book, he is scathing in regard to the false piety of many, many Russians he knew - both before and after the Communists took over Russia.  He repeatedly has passages condemning an outward piety that is without an inward piety.  He writes that he would rather throw out the icons and prostrations and other such things, if people would just be inwardly pious.  He writes about how so many Russians practice the things you "have to do" simply because they feel that they have to and if they do, they will go to Heaven.  He even writes about priests who had no faith, at all, in God, who were atheists, yet prided themselves on being able to perform the services of the Church perfectly, according entirely to the rubrics.

Outward signs mean NOTHING without a true, inward piety.  If you are not truly repentant, you are damned whether or not you appear to be spiritual, whether or not you appear to be faithful, whether or not you follow the rules and regulations of the Typicon, to the tee.  So, if you don't have true faith, true unadulterated Orthodox faith, free of superstition, what does it matter if you follow the rubrics?  You may as well not even come to Church, you may as well eat five pounds of beef every day of Lent, you may as well spit on your priests and bishops, because you have no life in you.

Do not worry so much about outward appearances, worry far more about the state of your soul.

  Not true. Even if a priest or layperson has absolutely no faith at all and does things as required. The simple fact that they are there and acting as Christians can actually benefit someone else greatly. When one enters church in a spiritual state of mind. There focus shouldn't be on the other people. It should be on themselves and as long as the people and environment around them look and behave normally. It has absolutely no baring on one's own salvation. It's the system as a whole that saves.
   Hospitals operate the same manor. Your run through a bunch of tests including MRI, cat-scan, x-rays and the system give you the prognosis. It could be any of the steps that actually saves. It's the system as a whole that covers all the bases through a cooperative method.
   Stretched out through a life time you will encounter every step that is needed for salvation. It is always up to the person to take advantage of it. The system itself is fool proof.

[JamesR]

I understand what you are saying, but it is not our place to judge our fellow Orthodox Christians. Getting back on topic, I know that outward signs of piety will not save me alone and that many people use them for false reasons, but that is irrelevant to me. Even if my Orthodox brethren are taking advantage of these outward signs, I know that I myself personally would be using them for the right reasons despite whatever reasons they are using them for. You say that outward piety does not matter as much as the salvation of our soul. I agree, but you misunderstand that to me, outward piety DOES play a part in the salvation of my soul. I need outward signs, rituals and practices to remind me of who I am before God and keep me focused.

[JamesRottnek]

I understand what you are saying, but it is not our place to judge our fellow Orthodox Christians. Getting back on topic, I know that outward signs of piety will not save me alone and that many people use them for false reasons, but that is irrelevant to me. Even if my Orthodox brethren are taking advantage of these outward signs, I know that I myself personally would be using them for the right reasons despite whatever reasons they are using them for. You say that outward piety does not matter as much as the salvation of our soul. I agree, but you misunderstand that to me, outward piety DOES play a part in the salvation of my soul. I need outward signs, rituals and practices to remind me of who I am before God and keep me focused.

You, quite clearly, do not understand what I was saying, nor do you understand the second clause of your first sentence.  It is not our place to judge ANYONE (Orthodox or otherwise), yet you have NO problem judging everyone who doesn't utilize all the externals that you feel are important or vital.  However, you have no knowledge of the state of their soul unless you are a Spirit-bearing Elder, in which case I bow to your holiness.  For all you know, they are seen as exceptionally holy by God Himself, and perhaps they don't need such externals as ou do.

I was also not saying externals are unimportant.  Rather, I was saying that they are totally useless if one does not have any internals.  What does six hundred prostrations in an hour matter if one feels they will merit him salvation?  They are useless then.  What does owning 5,000 icons matter if one thinks the saints are gift-dispensing vending machines and our prayers are dollar bills?  If one has no internals, then they may as well have no externals and - in fact - they may be just like the Pharisees, condemned by God because they have only externals, yet think themselves righteous. 

You seem to think Russians who utilize externals are somehow holier than Greeks; I pointed out a Russian martyr, a man who suffered his whole life for his faith, who wrote countless times about the lack of faith amongst Russians who were quite well-versed in externals.  You need to take a closer look at what is truly important, and at yourself instead of focusing on the Greeks who you feel are unholy for failing to utilize as many external - and very public - signs as the Russians, and instead of focusing on the Russians who you feel are holy merely because they utilize many external - and very public - signs.

[Michał Kalina]

The Jewish faith has many sects just like Christians do so some of these questions could be giving different answers. I'm not an Orthodox Jew but lean more towards Karaite Jew. Karaite's dont follow the Talmud or( the oral laws). There is no Karaite shul ( Church ) in my area so when I do go I go to a Reform Jewish shul. In Judaism we don't have Saints but we do have Sages kinda like just your Church Fathers with out the Saint part added

Polish Karaites do not identify themselves as Jews.

[jewish voice]

The Jewish faith has many sects just like Christians do so some of these questions could be giving different answers. I'm not an Orthodox Jew but lean more towards Karaite Jew. Karaite's dont follow the Talmud or( the oral laws). There is no Karaite shul ( Church ) in my area so when I do go I go to a Reform Jewish shul. In Judaism we don't have Saints but we do have Sages kinda like just your Church Fathers with out the Saint part added

Polish Karaites do not identify themselves as Jews.

they still going by Taters over there.
Here's a simple over view on Karaites if anyone cares to know http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karaite_Judaism

[Michał Kalina]

Here's a simple over view on Karaites if anyone cares to know http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karaite_Judaism

I think they care more for themselves than for English wiki.

[biro]

The Jewish faith has many sects just like Christians do so some of these questions could be giving different answers. I'm not an Orthodox Jew but lean more towards Karaite Jew. Karaite's dont follow the Talmud or( the oral laws). There is no Karaite shul ( Church ) in my area so when I do go I go to a Reform Jewish shul. In Judaism we don't have Saints but we do have Sages kinda like just your Church Fathers with out the Saint part added

Polish Karaites do not identify themselves as Jews.

Really? That's interesting. 

[JamesRottnek]

The Jewish faith has many sects just like Christians do so some of these questions could be giving different answers. I'm not an Orthodox Jew but lean more towards Karaite Jew. Karaite's dont follow the Talmud or( the oral laws). There is no Karaite shul ( Church ) in my area so when I do go I go to a Reform Jewish shul. In Judaism we don't have Saints but we do have Sages kinda like just your Church Fathers with out the Saint part added

Polish Karaites do not identify themselves as Jews.

Polish Karaites and Jewish Karaites (who, today, are primarily descendants of Egyptian Jews) are two separate religious groups.

[mabsoota]

hi, jewish voice.
i speak romanian, but as so little of that website is in english, it looks like they might not have much translation inside the church either! so u can either visit one that advertises in english (i think that's a good idea for a church located in an english speaking country!) or send me a personal messsage with any bits u want translating.
may God bless yr searching; He rewards those who seek Him.
mabsoota (means 'happy' in arabic)

[Azul]

I am romanian.What is it that it is desired in "romanian" ?

[Ortho_cat]

so JewishVoice, are you convinced yet?

[jewish voice]

so JewishVoice, are you convinced yet?

I didn't get to meet with the Father at the one church yet. What I have read that has been posted on here not as of yet.

[Ortho_cat]

so JewishVoice, are you convinced yet?

I didn't get to meet with the Father at the one church yet. What I have read that has been posted on here not as of yet.

oh, well let us know how that meeting goes!

[mabsoota]

buna azul,
 
it was a romanian orthodox church website. but i think he is going to get his info from an english speaking source.

[yeshuaisiam]

Well there is a Rabbi that revealed the name of the messiah.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0DTT3u2JZ8

[akimori makoto]

You are possibly converting? That is amazing, good luck with your spiritual journey. Also, I would suggest going with the OCA parish. I know that many people talk badly about it, but the truth of the matter is that there is nothing wrong with it really. I know because I attend one. I would stay away from the Greek Church if I were you, because these ones can be really ethnic and more of a social thing than an actual religious experience.

The Russians are holier because they have the nabedrennik and the red double-orarion.

[jewish voice]

Just a quick up date I meet with the Father today from Saint Matthew's and had a very good meeting and I enjoyed our time talking and I plan on going to Saint Matthew's this sunday doing a little of that come and see

[primuspilus]

Just a quick up date I meet with the Father today from Saint Matthew's and had a very good meeting and I enjoyed our time talking and I plan on going to Saint Matthew's this sunday doing a little of that come and see

Thats awesome! Have a great time

PP

[Ortho_cat]

Just a quick up date I meet with the Father today from Saint Matthew's and had a very good meeting and I enjoyed our time talking and I plan on going to Saint Matthew's this sunday doing a little of that come and see

awesome, let us know how it goes.

[Tags:]

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