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Author Topic: Americans prefer violence to sex  (Read 743 times) Average Rating: 0
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mike
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« on: March 14, 2012, 05:54:48 PM »

http://feministing.com/2011/06/30/sex-is-inappropriate-for-minors-but-violence-is-a-ok/

I've recently read a Newseek article about that issue. What do you think about it?
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« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2012, 06:58:23 PM »

http://feministing.com/2011/06/30/sex-is-inappropriate-for-minors-but-violence-is-a-ok/

I've recently read a Newseek article about that issue. What do you think about it?

I like both equally as well, although I've never been into sex and violence together.  That said, I love it when my wife and I are paired off as sparring partners in Krav Maga.  There is nothing sexier than having your wife hand your a to you.  Just sayin.
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« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2012, 07:09:44 PM »

http://feministing.com/2011/06/30/sex-is-inappropriate-for-minors-but-violence-is-a-ok/

I've recently read a Newseek article about that issue. What do you think about it?

It is one of the glaring inconsistencies in American Jurisprudence, there aren't really that many, but this is definitely one. The constitution is absolutist, it says that 'Congress shall make no law...abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press'...none, whatsoever, no law against inciting violence, no law against personal threats, no law against child pornography, no law, period. This worked just fine until the 14th Amendment was ratified and the Incorporation doctrine passed into law; before then, you could just go to the State Legislature to abridge the various freedoms you happen to not like. But after the 14th Amendment, this restriction applied to the states as well as the federal government. The governments should have just gotten out of the business of speech and obscenity, but for cultural reasons that are slowly disappearing they didn't. This lead to several clearly artificial categories of speech and a hierarchy of those categories to balance with a hierarchy of competing government 'interests'. These categories would seem totally arbitrary at first glance if not understood within the context of American culture; the revolution taught us that violence is good and noble, but we have not had a similar cultural event to infuse the idea that sex and obscenity are also good and noble and add to that our impoverished cultural inheritance from the puritans...they're arbitrary categories defined by historical accidents.

As a result we have some very weird situations where the intent of speech is judged, back in 2004 a woman was arrested for removing her top in protest of laws that treat male nudity different from female nudity, the arrest was ruled unconstitutional since it was a political protest and political speech trumps all other categories of speech and trumps nearly all government interests, no matter how 'compelling'. Several other women arrested the same night for the same offence were convicted and fined because their actions were ruled to not be politically motivated.

It's a real problem with the system that will hopefully be corrected in the coming decades, I still think our system better protects liberty than most (with the possible exception of the draconian penalties imposed for speech classified as 'child pornography' by the courts...but I don't know enough about how other systems deal with this issue to compare), but this is certainly a fair point of criticism.
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« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2012, 07:14:40 PM »

Sex is a private act and violence is public.  (I.e. - most sex takes place in a private setting whereas violence tends to take place in a public sphere.)

One thing to note is that portrayals of violence are more allowed, the actions themselves are punished much more harshly.  (I am including rape as an act of violence rather than one of sex.)  Prostitution and incest are some of the only sexual actions that are punished, and if you have a video camera, you can usually get off of prostitution charges.  Violence, on the other hand, is generally punished.  There is much more scorn for legal acts of violence (self-defense) than there is for justifiable sexual acts.  Sex between a man and wife is even considered wholesome, whereas immoral actions, such as adultery, generally go unpunished.
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« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2012, 07:45:35 PM »

http://feministing.com/2011/06/30/sex-is-inappropriate-for-minors-but-violence-is-a-ok/

I've recently read a Newseek article about that issue. What do you think about it?
Not much.  Newsweek's isn't much anymore.
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« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2012, 07:50:24 PM »

http://feministing.com/2011/06/30/sex-is-inappropriate-for-minors-but-violence-is-a-ok/

I've recently read a Newseek article about that issue. What do you think about it?
Not much.  Newsweek's isn't much anymore.

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« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2012, 07:53:37 PM »


It was a Polish edition. Not my favourite weekly (due to American style) but worth reading sometimes.
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« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2012, 07:58:53 PM »

Americans always with their either or thinking.

As Jane's Addiction said . . 

There is a youtube of clip of the show I think I was at in 1991, but it would be too shocking to post here.
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« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2012, 08:04:06 PM »

Sex is a private act and violence is public.  (I.e. - most sex takes place in a private setting whereas violence tends to take place in a public sphere.)

Speaking of arbitrary categorization... Wink
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« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2012, 03:46:33 AM »

http://feministing.com/2011/06/30/sex-is-inappropriate-for-minors-but-violence-is-a-ok/

I've recently read a Newseek article about that issue. What do you think about it?

American culture is strange.  I think there are a few reasons behind this.  Non-sexual nudity is extremely rare in America - there is no sauna culture, nude beaches are not for normal people just wanting to sunbathe.  Thus any bit of exposed skin must mean sex and only sex to many Americans.  The other issue at play is not a lot of Americans have experienced violence first hand - there hasn't really been a war fought on American soil for 150 years.   So violence has become this fetishized.   Unfortunately this is slowly starting to chance in Europe as the last generation that lived through war is starting to die out.  It is strange though that a film with a graphic (normal) sex scene would be considered inappropriate in the US, despite the fact that for most people sex is just a normal part of life.  On the other hand lurid violence is just PG-13 stuff these days, despite violence never being normal or healthy. 

FWIW, I don't have a TV and haven't watched any film containing sex or violence in ages.  Constantly watching that stuff desensitizes you to the real thing.  My wife and I just watched the BBC's Planet Earth and now Human Planet is the next up on our list - so much better than watching violence or smutty nonsense.   

 
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« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2012, 04:24:17 AM »

http://feministing.com/2011/06/30/sex-is-inappropriate-for-minors-but-violence-is-a-ok/

I've recently read a Newseek article about that issue. What do you think about it?

It is strange though that a film with a graphic (normal) sex scene would be considered inappropriate in the US, despite the fact that for most people sex is just a normal part of life.  On the other hand lurid violence is just PG-13 stuff these days, despite violence never being normal or healthy. 

That's the thing though, sex is something real to most people, while violence is a surreal thing, something apart from reality.  Consequently, it is similar to a carbonite freezing chamber from Star Wars; it isn't real to most people, so they see nothing the matter with it.
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« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2012, 08:03:54 AM »



That's the thing though, sex is something real to most people, while violence is a surreal thing, something apart from reality.  Consequently, it is similar to a carbonite freezing chamber from Star Wars; it isn't real to most people, so they see nothing the matter with it.

Which is why so many flag waving, "support our troops" Americans can alternatively support cuts to soldier healthcare, pensions and benefits and funding to the point where I have soldiers who don't have uniforms (they transferred from the Marine Corps).  These reporters and posters have the convenience of "sleeping peacefully in their beds at night because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf" while coming in internet discussion boards to talk about how weird Americans think it's okay to watch violence more than porn.

Sometimes I scratch my head at what reporters come up with as "important." 
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« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2012, 08:19:52 AM »

What about violent sex?
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« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2012, 08:21:51 AM »

http://feministing.com/2011/06/30/sex-is-inappropriate-for-minors-but-violence-is-a-ok/

I've recently read a Newseek article about that issue. What do you think about it?

It is strange though that a film with a graphic (normal) sex scene would be considered inappropriate in the US, despite the fact that for most people sex is just a normal part of life.  On the other hand lurid violence is just PG-13 stuff these days, despite violence never being normal or healthy. 

That's the thing though, sex is something real to most people, while violence is a surreal thing, something apart from reality.  Consequently, it is similar to a carbonite freezing chamber from Star Wars; it isn't real to most people, so they see nothing the matter with it.

I think there are different kinds of sex in art, film, etc.  If it is a logical part of the story and naturally unfolds, what is the big deal?  What I don't get about American culture is the failure to distinguish that from pornography, which is something truly hideous.   
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« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2012, 07:39:57 PM »

http://feministing.com/2011/06/30/sex-is-inappropriate-for-minors-but-violence-is-a-ok/

I've recently read a Newseek article about that issue. What do you think about it?

It is strange though that a film with a graphic (normal) sex scene would be considered inappropriate in the US, despite the fact that for most people sex is just a normal part of life.  On the other hand lurid violence is just PG-13 stuff these days, despite violence never being normal or healthy. 

That's the thing though, sex is something real to most people, while violence is a surreal thing, something apart from reality.  Consequently, it is similar to a carbonite freezing chamber from Star Wars; it isn't real to most people, so they see nothing the matter with it.

I think there are different kinds of sex in art, film, etc.  If it is a logical part of the story and naturally unfolds, what is the big deal?  What I don't get about American culture is the failure to distinguish that from pornography, which is something truly hideous.   

That's certainly true.  I don't quite understand why some people get extremely disturbed when there are sex scenes that are actually useful, or sometimes necessary, to a story-line.
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