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Author Topic: Let's talk about how awful and terrible those Mormons are!  (Read 2889 times) Average Rating: 0
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Føroyingar
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« Reply #45 on: October 25, 2012, 10:17:50 AM »

Well let's be honest, they are a bunch of right-wing weirdos, but being weird is not necessarily a crime.  They didn't deserve the persecution they faced from the United States government. But then again, I won't be apologizing to them anytime soon because as a Mexican I was also a persecuted minority.

I don't think Americans understand what persecution is. haha
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« Reply #46 on: October 25, 2012, 10:23:32 AM »

lol here we go again.

What would be a good discussion is why Christians, who view Mormons as non-Christians, would want a Mormon as POTUS. Their metaphsics appear a little shaky to me. Cheesy

Why are you baiting a politically charged argument in the public forum area?
Not baiting anyone. Feel free to make a thread in politics about it.

Dual threads? I think not. I'll just await this thread's almost inevitable transfer.
This whole thread isn't going to get moved to Politics just because one person decides to submit a poorly conceived political reply.
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« Reply #47 on: October 25, 2012, 10:36:13 AM »


You have everything to apologize for. I suggest speaking to your Priest.

Before I go speak to my priest, it would be good if I got a better understanding what exactly I have to apologize for concerning Mormons. Please enlighten me.


There is a clue.

 

What gives you the right to speak to me this way?


Oh you Orthodox don't believe in "rights" . . .

We do. But you also have the right to be polite to people. Especially when they have done you no harm.
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« Reply #48 on: October 30, 2012, 12:13:59 PM »

Photo Slideshow: A View Inside a Mormon Service.

This is not the ultra-secret Temple rite; it's just a regular Mormon church service.
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« Reply #49 on: October 30, 2012, 12:40:29 PM »


Everyone joins a cult and is brainwashed. It is called being born.


You apparently have a distorted definition of what a cult is, and what entails brainwashing.  Are you suggesting that life is nothing more than a cult?  What an insult that is to God who created you and gave you free will.  If you are brainwashed, that would be because you don't have the willpower to think for yourself.

How many people, and I thought this included you, actually took the steps to search and find Orthodoxy.  Those people, I would say, were not brainwashed, but, thought for themselves.


If you are a US citizen and have a conscious or are Orthodox and actually observing Lent, go knock on a Mormon's door and apologize.

You are welcome.


Apologize?  I've never even met one.  What would I have to apologize for?  


No one thinks for themselves. There is no such thing.

You have everything to apologize for. I suggest speaking to your Priest.

AKA you pulled that out of your *** right?


You are warned for 60 days for violating the rule on obscenity, particularly the following section" "Except for "BS," all acronyms (STFU, WTF, etc.), abbreviations (F-off, etc.), and semi-censored versions (F**K, BULLS**T, etc.) of forbidden words are also forbidden."  By saying "you pulled that out of your ***," you clearly used a forbidden obscenity. If you have any questions/objections, feel free to PM me. Carl Kraeff
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« Reply #50 on: October 30, 2012, 03:27:23 PM »

Well let's be honest, they are a bunch of right-wing weirdos, but being weird is not necessarily a crime.  They didn't deserve the persecution they faced from the United States government. But then again, I won't be apologizing to them anytime soon because as a Mexican I was also a persecuted minority.

I don't think Americans understand what persecution is. haha

I think a brief scan of the Wikipedia page on Mormon history might show that some do.
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« Reply #51 on: October 30, 2012, 03:44:18 PM »

Derailed from this thread: http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,43540.msg720598.html

I've seen the Mormon PBS Doc and let me say the most surprising thing out of all of it: Tal Bachman was a mormon! She's So High will never be the same again  Cry

Shattered dreams aside, I must say the doc was just OK. orthonorm feels that the persecution against Mormons is wrong, well so is the Mormons that shun their own families when they "apostasize" from the "church" they belong to. Or how about all those missionary abuses that goes on? Or how about extorting it's own members to fund a $3billion mall in the name of Jesus?

Start reading:
http://www.exmormon.org/

I don't mean to engender Fr. Serb's wrath, but I just felt a need to chime in here.  While the Mormons may not always use their funds wisely (and I would also object to the idea it is extortion that they require you give them a portion of your check, unless God was extorting farmers...), to pretend that everything Mormon is bad is a tad extreme.  For instance, my mother for several years worked in residential property management.  Countless times, during her years there, tenants would call in to say that the Mormon Church would be paying their rent for a while.  The Mormons certainly look out for their own.  And if you are going to attack the Mormons for shunning, you might as well attack the Amish too.


That said, let's not be too hasty to start comparing one religious group with another in "crimes against humanity". Each religious group has its share of horrible history and despicable deeds. I was addressing orthonorm's insinuating reply that Mormons are good people and have been injusticed by the good ol USA. I can only think of another obvious larger group which was raped and pillaged, but hey this is the land of religious freedom! Actually it's not.

Not every Mormon is bad, I never said all of them were. I think the worst atrocity the Mormons ever committed were making their own hot chocolate. It was awful and an embarrassment to such a connoisseur such as myself.

Okay. but seriously, the real atrocity here is their entire religion is founded upon lies and fabrication out of the mouth of a genuine charlatan. There are Mormons, in their own camp, who know it's a lie and will do anything it takes to cover it up much like our beloved Muslims when it comes to manuscripts of the Qua'ran. I mean with the Mormon establishment being one of the biggest money making ventures, why would you want the lie to end?

I have meet a lot of nice Mormons and some not so nice, but in every religion in the world it is the same.   I know I will get flamed for this, but I was watching a video of communist tearing down Churches in Russia and frankly I see the same spirit at work in mormonism and other sects.  Sure communism had visual direct effects and terror, but other sects do the same but you don't necessarily see the effects at first but what they do is tear down a chunk of truth from the Church and remake it into their liking.  So, sure they are nice, friendly and helpful but at the same time they are horrible, destructive, etc.
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« Reply #52 on: October 30, 2012, 04:32:05 PM »

As I read these posts - most of this topic - I wonder at how our former Mormon members react without replying here. I might as well wonder at what a Mormon inquirer would think of our community and the Church in general.
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« Reply #53 on: October 30, 2012, 06:59:19 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!


I just wanted to chime to mention how generally nice and hospitable my experience with Mormons have been.  It is a weird religion, and a weirder culture to say the least, but all around even the most bigoted Mormons I've met and known were quite polite and helpful.  In a crazy, self-centered world we can't expect to change everyone's negative personality issues like bigotry, racism, prejudice, hatred, tendencies towards violence, and especially blasphemous heresies, but the least we can hope for is for people to be nice about their beliefs.  We can only changes hearts one at a time, and this includes our own, and further its a process that takes time.  Being nice and polite even about fundamental disagreements is all we can ask for because it makes the time pass much easier Smiley

stay blessed,
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« Reply #54 on: October 31, 2012, 12:55:55 PM »

Ok as an ex Mormon, now Orthodox, I will chime in.  Mormons as a people can be some of the nicest people you have ever met, caring and will go out of their way to help. However some (actually quite a few) who seem nice will only remain nice if it seems you are open to their religion and once they realize you have no attention in joining gradually drift away, or just up and ignore you from that point on.

Should they be discriminated against, of course not. We should not discriminate against any group. The History of Mormonism in the US is quite muddy. Both sides are equally guilty in what happen. Their was enough blame to pass around.  Look into it, I do not have the time to point out all that happened.

The main problem is in doctrine.  I could go and list all difference but it would take awhile. (actually I am working on just that).

Should we discuss our difference, I believe yes, with Christ in our hearts and with love, not hate.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2012, 12:57:20 PM by soderquj » Logged

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« Reply #55 on: October 31, 2012, 03:34:37 PM »

Ok as an ex Mormon, now Orthodox, I will chime in.  Mormons as a people can be some of the nicest people you have ever met, caring and will go out of their way to help. However some (actually quite a few) who seem nice will only remain nice if it seems you are open to their religion and once they realize you have no attention in joining gradually drift away, or just up and ignore you from that point on.

Should they be discriminated against, of course not. We should not discriminate against any group. The History of Mormonism in the US is quite muddy. Both sides are equally guilty in what happen. Their was enough blame to pass around.  Look into it, I do not have the time to point out all that happened.

The main problem is in doctrine.  I could go and list all difference but it would take awhile. (actually I am working on just that).

Should we discuss our difference, I believe yes, with Christ in our hearts and with love, not hate.

I can also say that all the Mormons I have known have been super nice people. That said, I am actually relieved that they are like most folks in drifting away when they lose interest. I certainly second that we should talk about Mormonism (and with Mormons) with love and not hate.
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« Reply #56 on: October 31, 2012, 05:21:51 PM »

Ok as an ex Mormon, now Orthodox, I will chime in.  Mormons as a people can be some of the nicest people you have ever met, caring and will go out of their way to help. However some (actually quite a few) who seem nice will only remain nice if it seems you are open to their religion and once they realize you have no attention in joining gradually drift away, or just up and ignore you from that point on.

Should they be discriminated against, of course not. We should not discriminate against any group. The History of Mormonism in the US is quite muddy. Both sides are equally guilty in what happen. Their was enough blame to pass around.  Look into it, I do not have the time to point out all that happened.

The main problem is in doctrine.  I could go and list all difference but it would take awhile. (actually I am working on just that).

Should we discuss our difference, I believe yes, with Christ in our hearts and with love, not hate.

I can also say that all the Mormons I have known have been super nice people. That said, I am actually relieved that they are like most folks in drifting away when they lose interest. I certainly second that we should talk about Mormonism (and with Mormons) with love and not hate.
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« Reply #57 on: October 31, 2012, 05:28:07 PM »

You can say that because you aren't surrounded by them.

I for one, am. And right next to their border too (just a mountain hop away).

You do know the difference between a fake nice and a genuine nice right?
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« Reply #58 on: October 31, 2012, 05:52:13 PM »

As a teacher I can say they are, in general, the most well-behaved and motivated students in my public high school.
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« Reply #59 on: October 31, 2012, 08:07:43 PM »

Most of the LDS at my old Branch were "fake nice." There were some that were truly nice people, but those weren't the norm. This fact was probably the main reason I started fading away almost immediately after the missionaries that converted me got transferred out. I'm not saying this is the universal case for Mormons everywhere, but it's my experience nonetheless.
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« Reply #60 on: November 01, 2012, 10:14:01 AM »

You can say that because you aren't surrounded by them.

I for one, am. And right next to their border too (just a mountain hop away).

You do know the difference between a fake nice and a genuine nice right?

I understand fully, I live in Utah!

Funny things is Mormons outside of Utah usually act/interact differently than those who grew up in the state.
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« Reply #61 on: November 01, 2012, 11:23:42 AM »

Quite close to my home (and very close to my parish) there is a unique Mormon temple in Poland, so it's easy to meet them in the area (they always have some black badges with the full name of this "Church").

However, personally I talk with a Mormon one time in my life, in the Warsaw Old Town. I was wandering with my friends when a guy stopped us and showed a map of USA and asked where was Chicago. One of my friends answered correctly, so the Mormon started talking about their faith and theirs mission in Poland. He finished with a claim "We are also Christians, the same as you!" and asked "You are Catholics, aren't you?". So all my friends confirmed it. I was the last one and I said "No, I'm an Orthodox" (it was a few years ago and I wasn't yet officially in the Orthodox Church). He was scared, because it's ruined his theory and speech. He began waving his arms and repeating "We respect all, we respect all!". It was the end of his proselyting us.
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« Reply #62 on: November 01, 2012, 12:19:50 PM »

My husband's family is Mormon, and they are genuinely nice people. Their friends from church are also nice, normal people that have good days and bad days, just like everybody else. This is outside of Utah, so they aren't saturated in a Mormon culture... however, my sister-in-law married a Utah Mormon, and the weirdest thing about him is that he doesn't have a taste for seafood. I will never understand how landlocked people manage.

There was a Mormon girl in my high school who was syrupy, fakey sweet. After getting to know her better, I realized she wasn't faking it. I don't know why I get suspicious when someone seems "too" nice, but I'm glad I didn't disregard her completely.
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« Reply #63 on: November 01, 2012, 04:55:55 PM »

Los Angeles Review of Books on the similarity between John Bunyan's Pilgrims Progress and Smith's Book of Morman. An interesting read....

http://lareviewofbooks.org/article.php?id=1135&fulltext=1 

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« Reply #64 on: November 01, 2012, 05:02:30 PM »

It's funny, I have never met one single mormon before, only a couple of really friendly Jehovah's Witnesses.
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« Reply #65 on: November 01, 2012, 05:56:12 PM »

When I was a teenager, my father's then-wife converted to Mormonism after being evangelized by a contractor that my father had hired to do some work on his house. So I have seen and heard their proselytization techniques up close.

Like most people have said, Mormons are generally incredibly nice. Even the contractor (who didn't do a very good job; perhaps he was distracted by the idea of converting our family) was very nice. As far as I can tell, genuinely nice. But I noticed something: My father, who was often gone for weeks at a time for work, had asked the contractor and the Mormon missionaries who started to come by when his wife expressed an interest in their religion, to please refrain from bringing their religious discussions into his house (around me and his wife) when he is not there. I think he didn't want to come back from a trip and find his family "Mormonized" right under his nose, and with a bill for supposed work to pay to their proselytizer. A fair enough request, right? He is the head of the household, at the time I was under age, and something as important as conversion to a new religion should not be done in a sneaky fashion.

For some reason, the Mormons did not respect his wishes, despite having told him to his face that they would not come by anymore unless he was there. Instead, they waited until he was gone again, and then a few days later they would stop by. If his wife answered the door, they would come in as though her interest invalidated my father's request. If I answered the door, they would ask for her, and if she wasn't there they would try to come in anyway. When I reminded them that they are not supposed to be here, they would very nicely say "yeah, we won't come in; we just wanted to stop by and see how you guys are because you're part of our territory to cover for house-visits" (or whatever they call annoying people by dropping by unannounced to try to convert them). I'd tell them thanks for your visit, but please don't do it again. Then they'd do it again a little while later.

I told my father that they still occasionally came by, and he was clearly upset about it. He told me to just keep telling them to come back when he was there, which I did (and when he was there he would make them stay out on the front lawn...hahaha). Eventually this whole situation, wherein his wife adopted this religion through what he felt was deception and a lack of care on the part of the Mormons for the peace of our household, put a lot of stress on their marriage and they divorced (not just because of this, of course, but I know it didn't help at all). My father's ex-wife is no longer Mormon, and despite occasional threats of a lawsuit from the contractor who started all this (my father refused to pay him because he did a bad job, and took much longer to do than they had agreed upon, probably because he was busy converting my father's wife when he should have been working), as far as I know the Mormons have placed our family home on some sort of Mormon-hater blacklist (maybe they blame my father for his ex-wife's defection? I don't know; all I know is that they don't come around anymore, because no doubt they remember being left out on the lawn and getting yelled at and being told to never come back...it really got bad for a while there).

So whenever I hear about Mormons being so pro-family, I just have to laugh a little bit. Pro-Mormon family, sure, but if you're not Mormon apparently they feel less compelled to respect your family or your wishes. They certainly didn't seem to care about all the stress they caused in my father's marriage, that's for sure.

But still, they're nice people on the individual level.
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« Reply #66 on: November 01, 2012, 11:37:37 PM »

So whenever I hear about Mormons being so pro-family, I just have to laugh a little bit. Pro-Mormon family, sure, but if you're not Mormon apparently they feel less compelled to respect your family or your wishes. They certainly didn't seem to care about all the stress they caused in my father's marriage, that's for sure.

But still, they're nice people on the individual level.

Respecting the wishes of the family and giving the family space is not often thought about, so Mormons don't tend to include it as part of their "pro-family" position. They encourage families to spend time together and build relationships, because you're building eternal bonds. This long term perspective is strongly focused on, and encourages people to put more work into their family. But requests made by the Church are not seen as encroachments, even though Mormons in good standing see them as obligatory. That's seen as something separate from the "family" stance.

What happened to your family, dzheremi, wasn't a Mormon tactic, but a "they got excited that someone was interested in their faith and proceeded to do stupid things" tactic. I'm sure they were surprised that your dad didn't come around to seeing his ex-wife's side of things and convert, too--because isn't "the unbelieving husband sanctified by the wife"? I've seen and heard of this mistake being made by lots of people in lots of different religions, unfortunately.
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« Reply #67 on: November 01, 2012, 11:46:53 PM »

Yes, of course. I don't mean to imply that this is something that Mormons do by virtue of being Mormons, but it is something that these particular Mormons did do, and it provides a rather different picture than the standard view of Mormons. That's all.
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« Reply #68 on: November 02, 2012, 02:30:52 AM »

As I read these posts - most of this topic - I wonder at how our former Mormon members react without replying here. I might as well wonder at what a Mormon inquirer would think of our community and the Church in general.

Speaking for myself, it is an incredible turn off. These kinds of threads, while rare, show me an entirely different side of posters on here, a side I don't like. It was the main reason I stopped coming here. I come here tonight after seeing someone mention this site on FB today and this is the thread that jumps out at me. As to the second part of your above statement, I think the general inquirer would be quite likely to judge your church by the spirit the members are displaying on here and not want to learn more. "By their fruits you will know them."

I probably won't be back on for months. If people want to dog pile on telling me how horrible what I wrote is and how wrong it is to judge, go for it.
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« Reply #69 on: November 02, 2012, 09:38:34 AM »

Best wishes to you, Marat.

Obviously I suspected this possibility. There are other forums where this sort of thing does not happen.
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« Reply #70 on: November 02, 2012, 12:46:07 PM »

As I read these posts - most of this topic - I wonder at how our former Mormon members react without replying here. I might as well wonder at what a Mormon inquirer would think of our community and the Church in general.

Speaking for myself, it is an incredible turn off. These kinds of threads, while rare, show me an entirely different side of posters on here, a side I don't like. It was the main reason I stopped coming here. I come here tonight after seeing someone mention this site on FB today and this is the thread that jumps out at me. As to the second part of your above statement, I think the general inquirer would be quite likely to judge your church by the spirit the members are displaying on here and not want to learn more. "By their fruits you will know them."

I probably won't be back on for months. If people want to dog pile on telling me how horrible what I wrote is and how wrong it is to judge, go for it.

A little bit of background info on myself: I married a Mormon when I was a Catholic. We both believed that with sufficient prayer and study, we could find the Truth. Both before and after marriage, we'd go to both Mass and Sacrament Meeting each Sunday. I had the missionary talks, and he did RCIA. I read the Book of Mormon a couple times, got on LDS apologetic websites, and did what I could to build an LDS framework so I could understand where my husband was coming from. My husband did the same for me. Now he's an atheist and I'm Orthodox.  Roll Eyes

I do wish you would stay on the forums. Whenever I see someone say something wrong about Catholics, I know that a Catholic will jump in and correct them. But whenever someone says something incorrect about Mormons - even if it's something that might have once been taught but no modern day Mormon would believe - I have such a hard time not saying anything, because I know it's far less likely that anyone will defend them. In part, this is because Catholics outnumber Mormons in general, but I'd hate for it to be further skewed because people with LDS backgrounds don't feel welcome here. Ex-Mormons, I think, are more likely than most to look for the ancient Church--the LDS Church strongly emphasizes the importance of being part of the Church founded by Christ and his apostles.

I hope they aren't being driven away.
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« Reply #71 on: November 02, 2012, 11:16:30 PM »

It's funny, I have never met one single mormon before, only a couple of really friendly Jehovah's Witnesses.

Ditto
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« Reply #72 on: November 03, 2012, 02:44:32 AM »

Mormons = Gnostics!
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« Reply #73 on: November 03, 2012, 04:33:16 AM »

As I read these posts - most of this topic - I wonder at how our former Mormon members react without replying here. I might as well wonder at what a Mormon inquirer would think of our community and the Church in general.

Speaking for myself, it is an incredible turn off. These kinds of threads, while rare, show me an entirely different side of posters on here, a side I don't like. It was the main reason I stopped coming here. I come here tonight after seeing someone mention this site on FB today and this is the thread that jumps out at me. As to the second part of your above statement, I think the general inquirer would be quite likely to judge your church by the spirit the members are displaying on here and not want to learn more. "By their fruits you will know them."

I probably won't be back on for months. If people want to dog pile on telling me how horrible what I wrote is and how wrong it is to judge, go for it.
Hey I still stand by my hot chocolate comment.
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« Reply #74 on: November 07, 2012, 03:38:02 PM »

Mormons = Gnostics!
Mormons believe that God has a physical body, that matter is eternal, that salvation requires good deeds. How is that gnostic?
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« Reply #75 on: November 07, 2012, 03:40:17 PM »

Despite the defeat for Romney, Mormonism came out a winner, said Philip Barlow, chair of Mormon history and culture at Utah State University.

"It developed a thicker skin in the eyes of the world," Barlow said, "and the world could see that a Mormon who runs for office isn’t, by definition, a nut case."
....
"For us, this has really been an opportunity to really depict who we are," LDS spokesman Michael Otterson told The Washington Post. "The opportunity to set aside some of the long-standing misunderstandings -- more misunderstandings and lack of education than prejudice."
....
Bushman said that even negative aspects of the "Mormon moment" bore positive results.

"So many times people cover up real questions about Mormons by trying to be polite," he said. "Bringing them out makes it possible to deal with them and lead to a better conversation down the line."
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If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
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Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.
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« Reply #76 on: November 07, 2012, 03:41:51 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I agree, this was an almost Kennedy moment for Mormons, as just as Kennedy brought Catholics out of the darkness and into the mainstream, suddenly Americans are realizing that, "Hey, maybe Mormons aren't so bad after all, a little weird sure, but aren't we all?"


stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #77 on: November 07, 2012, 03:51:06 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I agree, this was an almost Kennedy moment for Mormons, as just as Kennedy brought Catholics out of the darkness and into the mainstream, suddenly Americans are realizing that, "Hey, maybe Mormons aren't so bad after all, a little weird sure, but aren't we all?"


stay blessed,
habte selassie

I guess we need an Orthodox candidate then!
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« Reply #78 on: November 07, 2012, 04:18:36 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I agree, this was an almost Kennedy moment for Mormons, as just as Kennedy brought Catholics out of the darkness and into the mainstream, suddenly Americans are realizing that, "Hey, maybe Mormons aren't so bad after all, a little weird sure, but aren't we all?"


stay blessed,
habte selassie

I guess we need an Orthodox candidate then!

I know President Taft's great grandson. He was just chrismated a few months back. We could get him in there. Wink

In Christ,
Andrew
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« Reply #79 on: December 09, 2013, 08:50:09 PM »

Those Mormons missionaries are a crazy bunch:

Quote
My experience on my mission in Germany was nothing but a positive one (if you look past the horrific scenario of my death and the excruciating pain of being resuscitated).
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If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.
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« Reply #80 on: December 09, 2013, 09:50:43 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I agree, this was an almost Kennedy moment for Mormons, as just as Kennedy brought Catholics out of the darkness and into the mainstream, suddenly Americans are realizing that, "Hey, maybe Mormons aren't so bad after all, a little weird sure, but aren't we all?"


stay blessed,
habte selassie

I guess we need an Orthodox candidate then!

I know President Taft's great grandson. He was just chrismated a few months back. We could get him in there. Wink

In Christ,
Andrew
We got one of our own running the GOP now.
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« Reply #81 on: December 10, 2013, 09:01:03 AM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I agree, this was an almost Kennedy moment for Mormons, as just as Kennedy brought Catholics out of the darkness and into the mainstream, suddenly Americans are realizing that, "Hey, maybe Mormons aren't so bad after all, a little weird sure, but aren't we all?"


stay blessed,
habte selassie

I guess we need an Orthodox candidate then!

I know President Taft's great grandson. He was just chrismated a few months back. We could get him in there. Wink

In Christ,
Andrew
We got one of our own running the GOP now.

Huh, learn something new every day.
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