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Author Topic: Let's talk about how awful and terrible those Mormons are!  (Read 3235 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: March 13, 2012, 01:02:59 PM »

Derailed from this thread: http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,43540.msg720598.html

I've seen the Mormon PBS Doc and let me say the most surprising thing out of all of it: Tal Bachman was a mormon! She's So High will never be the same again  Cry

Shattered dreams aside, I must say the doc was just OK. orthonorm feels that the persecution against Mormons is wrong, well so is the Mormons that shun their own families when they "apostasize" from the "church" they belong to. Or how about all those missionary abuses that goes on? Or how about extorting it's own members to fund a $3billion mall in the name of Jesus?

Start reading:
http://www.exmormon.org/

I don't mean to engender Fr. Serb's wrath, but I just felt a need to chime in here.  While the Mormons may not always use their funds wisely (and I would also object to the idea it is extortion that they require you give them a portion of your check, unless God was extorting farmers...), to pretend that everything Mormon is bad is a tad extreme.  For instance, my mother for several years worked in residential property management.  Countless times, during her years there, tenants would call in to say that the Mormon Church would be paying their rent for a while.  The Mormons certainly look out for their own.  And if you are going to attack the Mormons for shunning, you might as well attack the Amish too.


That said, let's not be too hasty to start comparing one religious group with another in "crimes against humanity". Each religious group has its share of horrible history and despicable deeds. I was addressing orthonorm's insinuating reply that Mormons are good people and have been injusticed by the good ol USA. I can only think of another obvious larger group which was raped and pillaged, but hey this is the land of religious freedom! Actually it's not.

Not every Mormon is bad, I never said all of them were. I think the worst atrocity the Mormons ever committed were making their own hot chocolate. It was awful and an embarrassment to such a connoisseur such as myself.

Okay. but seriously, the real atrocity here is their entire religion is founded upon lies and fabrication out of the mouth of a genuine charlatan. There are Mormons, in their own camp, who know it's a lie and will do anything it takes to cover it up much like our beloved Muslims when it comes to manuscripts of the Qua'ran. I mean with the Mormon establishment being one of the biggest money making ventures, why would you want the lie to end?
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« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2012, 02:08:01 PM »

I've been around Mormons before.  It would be worth learning from them (Fas est et ab hoste doceri).  They have a lot going for them as far as ideologies go.   
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« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2012, 02:25:44 PM »

they're nice...not so nice to those who have left mormonism though.
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« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2012, 05:25:50 PM »

What you and others were missing from the last thread was my main point (actually Achronos didn't much of the point as his summary of my post is near as to completely wrong as you can get):

They have been and are targeted by our Government for persecution. Explicitly at one time for utter extinction. (Is that worse than "shunning"?)

This is madness.

And by the way:

Every group "shuns". Every.

Every.

It's just when the reasons for shunning in one group depart significantly from another, usually the group which defines the "status quo", does it seem scandalous.

The reasons are never more strict, severe, etc. They are best defined by the word: different.

Let's wait for the word cult to be used. Or brainwashed.

Everyone joins a cult and is brainwashed. It is called being born.

Now air all the reasons you don't like Mormons / Mormonism all you want, but realize they are simply deviations from your own set of rules.

As citizens of this country, we should have a singular response to the treatment of Mormons by this country's government: shame.

If you are a US citizen and have a conscious or are Orthodox and actually observing Lent, go knock on a Mormon's door and apologize.

You are welcome.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2012, 05:26:33 PM by orthonorm » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2012, 05:35:31 PM »


And by the way:

Every group "shuns". Every.

Every.


It's kind of in the nature of the word "group".  Some are in, some are out.
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« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2012, 05:47:46 PM »


Everyone joins a cult and is brainwashed. It is called being born.


You apparently have a distorted definition of what a cult is, and what entails brainwashing.  Are you suggesting that life is nothing more than a cult?  What an insult that is to God who created you and gave you free will.  If you are brainwashed, that would be because you don't have the willpower to think for yourself.

How many people, and I thought this included you, actually took the steps to search and find Orthodoxy.  Those people, I would say, were not brainwashed, but, thought for themselves.


If you are a US citizen and have a conscious or are Orthodox and actually observing Lent, go knock on a Mormon's door and apologize.

You are welcome.


Apologize?  I've never even met one.  What would I have to apologize for?  
« Last Edit: March 13, 2012, 05:47:58 PM by LizaSymonenko » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2012, 05:59:15 PM »


Everyone joins a cult and is brainwashed. It is called being born.


You apparently have a distorted definition of what a cult is, and what entails brainwashing.  Are you suggesting that life is nothing more than a cult?  What an insult that is to God who created you and gave you free will.  If you are brainwashed, that would be because you don't have the willpower to think for yourself.

How many people, and I thought this included you, actually took the steps to search and find Orthodoxy.  Those people, I would say, were not brainwashed, but, thought for themselves.


If you are a US citizen and have a conscious or are Orthodox and actually observing Lent, go knock on a Mormon's door and apologize.

You are welcome.


Apologize?  I've never even met one.  What would I have to apologize for?  


No one thinks for themselves. There is no such thing.

You have everything to apologize for. I suggest speaking to your Priest.
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« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2012, 06:00:35 PM »


And by the way:

Every group "shuns". Every.

Every.


It's kind of in the nature of the word "group".  Some are in, some are out.

Exactly, groups like to use neat words which sound bad to to describe similar practices of other groups so they can righteously eliminate or marginalize them.
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« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2012, 06:35:52 PM »


Everyone joins a cult and is brainwashed. It is called being born.


You apparently have a distorted definition of what a cult is, and what entails brainwashing.  Are you suggesting that life is nothing more than a cult?  What an insult that is to God who created you and gave you free will.  If you are brainwashed, that would be because you don't have the willpower to think for yourself.

How many people, and I thought this included you, actually took the steps to search and find Orthodoxy.  Those people, I would say, were not brainwashed, but, thought for themselves.


If you are a US citizen and have a conscious or are Orthodox and actually observing Lent, go knock on a Mormon's door and apologize.

You are welcome.


Apologize?  I've never even met one.  What would I have to apologize for?  


No one thinks for themselves. There is no such thing.

You have everything to apologize for. I suggest speaking to your Priest.

Before I go speak to my priest, it would be good if I got a better understanding what exactly I have to apologize for concerning Mormons. Please enlighten me.
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« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2012, 06:43:03 PM »


Everyone joins a cult and is brainwashed. It is called being born.


You apparently have a distorted definition of what a cult is, and what entails brainwashing.  Are you suggesting that life is nothing more than a cult?  What an insult that is to God who created you and gave you free will.  If you are brainwashed, that would be because you don't have the willpower to think for yourself.

How many people, and I thought this included you, actually took the steps to search and find Orthodoxy.  Those people, I would say, were not brainwashed, but, thought for themselves.


If you are a US citizen and have a conscious or are Orthodox and actually observing Lent, go knock on a Mormon's door and apologize.

You are welcome.


Apologize?  I've never even met one.  What would I have to apologize for?  


No one thinks for themselves. There is no such thing.

You have everything to apologize for. I suggest speaking to your Priest.

Before I go speak to my priest, it would be good if I got a better understanding what exactly I have to apologize for concerning Mormons. Please enlighten me.


There is a clue.

 
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« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2012, 07:14:32 PM »

I've never met a practicing Mormon but I have two friends of Mormon ancestry although they call themselves agnostic now.They are very polite and I think it has something to do with growing up in Utah.
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« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2012, 07:24:43 PM »


You have everything to apologize for. I suggest speaking to your Priest.

Before I go speak to my priest, it would be good if I got a better understanding what exactly I have to apologize for concerning Mormons. Please enlighten me.


There is a clue.

 

What gives you the right to speak to me this way?
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« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2012, 09:03:54 PM »

The only evil of Mormonism (aside from the possible covering up of sexual abuse, which has been alleged by at least a few ex-Mormon women, regarding their fathers) is that it is based in lie.  Mormons are generally not bad people, at least devout Mormons anyways.
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« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2012, 09:06:37 PM »

What you and others were missing from the last thread was my main point (actually Achronos didn't much of the point as his summary of my post is near as to completely wrong as you can get):

They have been and are targeted by our Government for persecution. Explicitly at one time for utter extinction. (Is that worse than "shunning"?)

This is madness.

And by the way:

Every group "shuns". Every.

Every.

It's just when the reasons for shunning in one group depart significantly from another, usually the group which defines the "status quo", does it seem scandalous.

The reasons are never more strict, severe, etc. They are best defined by the word: different.

Let's wait for the word cult to be used. Or brainwashed.

Everyone joins a cult and is brainwashed. It is called being born.

Now air all the reasons you don't like Mormons / Mormonism all you want, but realize they are simply deviations from your own set of rules.

As citizens of this country, we should have a singular response to the treatment of Mormons by this country's government: shame.

If you are a US citizen and have a conscious or are Orthodox and actually observing Lent, go knock on a Mormon's door and apologize.

You are welcome.


Is your ranting over? Are you somewhat calmer and are you willing to tell us what in the world you are talking about? Thanks.
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« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2012, 10:00:57 PM »

What you and others were missing from the last thread was my main point (actually Achronos didn't much of the point as his summary of my post is near as to completely wrong as you can get):

They have been and are targeted by our Government for persecution. Explicitly at one time for utter extinction. (Is that worse than "shunning"?)
Lest you be mistaken that it was not our national government that upheld persecution against them. Rather in two states, Missouri and Illinois pushed the Mormons out to reside in Utah. Then the Utah "War" happened. The latter had nothing to do with "utter extinction".

Quote
Every group "shuns". Every.

Every.
Just because every group shuns does not make it right. That's my point.

Quote
Everyone joins a cult and is brainwashed. It is called being born.
What the hell? So you are conflating between being born into a "cult" and from thenceforth we are brainwashed. Sorry but you're wrong.

Quote
If you are a US citizen and have a conscious or are Orthodox and actually observing Lent, go knock on a Mormon's door and apologize.
No we don't have to apologize because the history says otherwise. We should instead knock on the door of our Native Americans and apologize. Or do you disagree?
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« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2012, 11:32:17 PM »

What you and others were missing from the last thread was my main point (actually Achronos didn't much of the point as his summary of my post is near as to completely wrong as you can get):

They have been and are targeted by our Government for persecution. Explicitly at one time for utter extinction. (Is that worse than "shunning"?)

This is madness.

And by the way:

Every group "shuns". Every.

Every.

It's just when the reasons for shunning in one group depart significantly from another, usually the group which defines the "status quo", does it seem scandalous.

The reasons are never more strict, severe, etc. They are best defined by the word: different.

Let's wait for the word cult to be used. Or brainwashed.

Everyone joins a cult and is brainwashed. It is called being born.

Now air all the reasons you don't like Mormons / Mormonism all you want, but realize they are simply deviations from your own set of rules.

As citizens of this country, we should have a singular response to the treatment of Mormons by this country's government: shame.

If you are a US citizen and have a conscious or are Orthodox and actually observing Lent, go knock on a Mormon's door and apologize.

You are welcome.


Is your ranting over? Are you somewhat calmer and are you willing to tell us what in the world you are talking about? Thanks.
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« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2012, 11:32:54 PM »


You have everything to apologize for. I suggest speaking to your Priest.

Before I go speak to my priest, it would be good if I got a better understanding what exactly I have to apologize for concerning Mormons. Please enlighten me.


There is a clue.

 

What gives you the right to speak to me this way?


Oh you Orthodox don't believe in "rights" . . .
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« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2012, 11:33:17 PM »

What you and others were missing from the last thread was my main point (actually Achronos didn't much of the point as his summary of my post is near as to completely wrong as you can get):

They have been and are targeted by our Government for persecution. Explicitly at one time for utter extinction. (Is that worse than "shunning"?)
Lest you be mistaken that it was not our national government that upheld persecution against them. Rather in two states, Missouri and Illinois pushed the Mormons out to reside in Utah. Then the Utah "War" happened. The latter had nothing to do with "utter extinction".

Quote
Every group "shuns". Every.

Every.
Just because every group shuns does not make it right. That's my point.

Quote
Everyone joins a cult and is brainwashed. It is called being born.
What the hell? So you are conflating between being born into a "cult" and from thenceforth we are brainwashed. Sorry but you're wrong.

Quote
If you are a US citizen and have a conscious or are Orthodox and actually observing Lent, go knock on a Mormon's door and apologize.
No we don't have to apologize because the history says otherwise. We should instead knock on the door of our Native Americans and apologize. Or do you disagree?

Yes, I disagree.
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« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2012, 07:54:45 AM »

What you and others were missing from the last thread was my main point (actually Achronos didn't much of the point as his summary of my post is near as to completely wrong as you can get):

They have been and are targeted by our Government for persecution. Explicitly at one time for utter extinction. (Is that worse than "shunning"?)

This is madness.

And by the way:

Every group "shuns". Every.

Every.

It's just when the reasons for shunning in one group depart significantly from another, usually the group which defines the "status quo", does it seem scandalous.

The reasons are never more strict, severe, etc. They are best defined by the word: different.

Let's wait for the word cult to be used. Or brainwashed.

Everyone joins a cult and is brainwashed. It is called being born.

Now air all the reasons you don't like Mormons / Mormonism all you want, but realize they are simply deviations from your own set of rules.

As citizens of this country, we should have a singular response to the treatment of Mormons by this country's government: shame.

If you are a US citizen and have a conscious or are Orthodox and actually observing Lent, go knock on a Mormon's door and apologize.

You are welcome.


Is your ranting over? Are you somewhat calmer and are you willing to tell us what in the world you are talking about? Thanks.

Ever get the feeling that you're not in the group who 'know' and therefore won't be explained to because it's a way of shunning?

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« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2012, 09:27:57 AM »


And by the way:

Every group "shuns". Every.

Every.


It's kind of in the nature of the word "group".  Some are in, some are out.

Exactly, groups like to use neat words which sound bad to to describe similar practices of other groups so they can righteously eliminate or marginalize them.

But that's how we survive as a species.  All conflict is Mind vs Mind.  If you have a groups who's minds operate differently than ours it can safely be assumed that they have conflicting interests.  I think if we spent less time trying to make the other's way of thinking fit in with our own, we'd be better able to understand them, and thus find the means to destroy them, and be more successful. 
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« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2012, 09:43:26 AM »


Everyone joins a cult and is brainwashed. It is called being born.


You apparently have a distorted definition of what a cult is, and what entails brainwashing.  Are you suggesting that life is nothing more than a cult?  What an insult that is to God who created you and gave you free will.  If you are brainwashed, that would be because you don't have the willpower to think for yourself.

How many people, and I thought this included you, actually took the steps to search and find Orthodoxy.  Those people, I would say, were not brainwashed, but, thought for themselves.


I think his definitions are different though not necessarily distorted.  What exactly is brainwashing?  When you get down to it, it's really just an extreme form of mental conditioning.  If I am reading him right, he's pretty much just pointing out the obvious - your mind has been heavily conditioned by your family, your friends, your culture, your religion, your language, your education, etc.  Basically all a cult is is a very small culture that is viewed as competition by a larger culture (in essence, a larger cult). 
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« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2012, 10:30:09 AM »


However, in today's society it is really difficult to be "brainwashed" by your particular demographic.

Sure, I grew up in the Church, spoke Ukrainian from a young age, etc.  However, I surf the Web, I watch the NEWS, I am exposed to all manner of information.

I have free will....and if for some reason I deduced that what I had been taught my whole life was wrong, I have the ability to change!

You are what you make of yourself.

The only people who can claim to truly be brainwashed are those who are isolated.

We, are hardly isolated.

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« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2012, 10:33:22 AM »

What you and others were missing from the last thread was my main point (actually Achronos didn't much of the point as his summary of my post is near as to completely wrong as you can get):

They have been and are targeted by our Government for persecution. Explicitly at one time for utter extinction. (Is that worse than "shunning"?)

This is madness.

And by the way:

Every group "shuns". Every.

Every.

It's just when the reasons for shunning in one group depart significantly from another, usually the group which defines the "status quo", does it seem scandalous.

The reasons are never more strict, severe, etc. They are best defined by the word: different.

Let's wait for the word cult to be used. Or brainwashed.

Everyone joins a cult and is brainwashed. It is called being born.

Now air all the reasons you don't like Mormons / Mormonism all you want, but realize they are simply deviations from your own set of rules.

As citizens of this country, we should have a singular response to the treatment of Mormons by this country's government: shame.

If you are a US citizen and have a conscious or are Orthodox and actually observing Lent, go knock on a Mormon's door and apologize.

You are welcome.


Is your ranting over? Are you somewhat calmer and are you willing to tell us what in the world you are talking about? Thanks.

This is supposed to be an answer to my question? If it is, please indulge me, an old man whose native language is not American English, and answer my question less enigmatically, cryptically and tersely. Just walk me through what you are trying to say, please?
« Last Edit: March 14, 2012, 10:37:08 AM by Second Chance » Logged

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« Reply #23 on: March 14, 2012, 10:35:20 AM »


You have everything to apologize for. I suggest speaking to your Priest.

Before I go speak to my priest, it would be good if I got a better understanding what exactly I have to apologize for concerning Mormons. Please enlighten me.


There is a clue.

 

What gives you the right to speak to me this way?


Oh you Orthodox don't believe in "rights" . . .

Now I am even more confused. "You Orthodox" may be understood to mean "I, a non-Orthodox, am talking to you, the Orthodox." But, I thought that you had recently joined the Church.
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« Reply #24 on: March 14, 2012, 10:43:32 AM »

I do not wish to derail this thread but I feel compelled to post a contextual reminder that the Evil One is working extra hard during the Great Lent. I will state up front that I am not judging anyone but myself and am posting the following in the chance that it may also be applicable to the lives of others.

"Teaching on the Eight Means of Temptation and the Struggle Against Them

The Holy Fathers say (this is how Fr. Cleopa began to express concisely his spiritual experience to us, inherited from the Holy Fathers and personally experienced by him, as every one of his words clearly confirms) that on the path of salvation one is tempted by the devil from eight sides: from the front, from behind, from the left, from the right, from above, from below, from inside, and from the outside.

1. One is tempted from behind when one continuously remembers the sins and evil deeds one has committed in the past, recalling them anew in one’s mind, reshuffling them, engaging them, despairing because of them, and contemplating them sensually. Such a remembrance of how we have sinned in the past is a demonic temptation.

2. One is normally tempted from the front through fear at the thought of what the future holds: of what will happen to us or to the world; of how much longer we will live; of whether we will have anything to eat; of whether there will be a war or any other kind of serious and frightful event to come; and, in general, by making all kinds of guesses, predictions, prophecies, and everything else that induces fear of the future in us.

3. One is tempted by the devil from the left through the call to commit obvious sins and to behave and act in ways that are known to be sinful and evil, but which people do nonetheless. This temptation is a direct call to sin openly and consciously.

4. There are two ways in which the devil tempts from the right. The first is when one performs good deeds and actions, but with a bad or malicious intent and purpose. For example, if one does good or acts well out of vainglory, to receive praise, to obtain a position, to acquire fame, or in order to attain some benefit for oneself – it follows that one is doing such good out of vanity, avarice, and greed. The performance of good deeds for bad purposes is sinful and vain. The Holy Fathers liken such a performance of good deeds (such as fasting and almsgiving) to a body without a soul, inasmuch as the purpose for which a deed is accomplished is its soul, while the deed itself is its body. Therefore, the performance of good deeds with an ungodly purpose is essentially a temptation coming from the right, that is, coming under the guise of good. The second demonic temptation from the right comes through various apparitions and visions, when one receives visions of the devil in the form of God or an Angel of God. The Holy Fathers call trusting these specters from the devil, or accepting these demonic phenomena, delusion or deception [prelest].

5. Further, the devil tempts one from above when one is capable of performing good deeds or holy virtues but is too lazy to do so; or when one knows that one should make greater efforts and labors in ascetic struggles (in virtues and good deeds), and is capable of doing so, but does not do so out of laziness or because one is looking for excuses for one’s laziness. One thereby spiritually rejects these virtues by doing much less than one could in fact do.

6. Temptations from below (Elder Cleopa, in order better to explain this to us, demonstrated with his hands the direction from which one or another temptation came; he then briefly repeated what the direction of the temptation he had just described was) also come about in two ways. The first is when one takes upon oneself ascetic struggles that exceed one’s strength, thereby recklessly straining oneself. This happens, for instance, when one is sick but imposes a fast on oneself that is beyond one’s strength; or generally when one overdoes any ascetic struggle that is beyond one’s spiritual and physical capacity. Such obstinacy lacks humility and is unreasonably presumptuous.

Another temptation from below is when one strives to learn the mysteries of Holy Scripture (and of God’s mysteries in general), but does not do so according to one’s spiritual maturity. That is, when one wants to penetrate the mysteries of God in Holy Scripture (or in the saints, the world, and life in general) in order later to explain and teach these mysteries to other people when one is not spiritually mature enough to do so. The Holy Fathers say that such a person wants to chew through a bone with baby teeth. St. Gregory of Nyssa speaks about this in his work, The Life of Moses. He says that it was for this reason that God commanded the Israelites, who were imperfect, to eat only the meat (which is like milk for the teeth) from the Passover lamb – and, moreover, with bitter herbs – and not to break into pieces or to eat the bones, but rather to burn them in fire (cf. Exodus 12: 8, 10, 46). This means that we, too, should interpret only those mysteries in Holy Scripture (and in our faith in God generally) that correspond to our spiritual maturity and to eat (absorb) them with bitter herbs, that is, with everything that life brings us (suffering, grief); we should not bite into the mysteries of Holy Scripture, Divine knowledge, and God’s Providence, like so many hard bones, with our baby teeth; they are susceptible to fire only, that is, they become clear only in ripe spiritual maturity and in experienced souls that have been tested by grace-filled Divine fire.

7. One is tempted from within by that which one has in one’s heart and by that which proceeds from the heart. The Lord Jesus Christ clearly stated that it is from within, from one’s heart, that sinful and impure thoughts, desires, and lusts proceed (cf. Matthew 15:19) and tempt one. Temptations come not only from the devil, but also humanly, from the evil intentions and skills, lusts, evil desires, and inner love of sin that proceed from an unclean heart.

8. Finally, the eighth door to demonic temptation is opened from the outside, through external things and occasions, that is, through everything that enters from outside through one’s senses, which are the soul’s windows. These external things are not evil in and of themselves, but by means of them one’s feelings can be tempted and induced to evil and sin.

These, then, are the eight means by which everyone is tempted, regardless of whether one is in the world or in seclusion.

Against each of these temptations – from behind, from the front, from the left, from the right, from above, from below, from inside, and from the outside – one must fight by means of watchfulness (the Elder used precisely this Slavonic word [trezvenie]), that is, attentiveness, carefulness, and wakefulness of soul and body; wakefulness and vigilance of spirit; sobriety and discernment; attention to one’s thoughts and actions; or, in a word: judgment. On the other hand, by means of constant prayer that invokes the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, that is, through unceasing prayer. (Here Fr. Petronius added in Greek: “Prosochi kai prosefchi” – that is, as the Holy Fathers put it, “by attention and prayer.”)

In other words (the Elder added), the Holy Fathers said that the battle against all temptations and passions consists in the following: guarding all one’s mind, soul, and body from temptation – this is our ascetic struggle, from our human point of view; from the Divine side, one must continuously and prayerfully call upon the help of the All-Merciful Lord Jesus Christ – and this is that unceasing and primary prayer of the hesychasts called the Jesus Prayer: “Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me, a sinner!”

http://www.pravmir.com/elder-cleopa-on-the-eight-sources-of-temptation/
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« Reply #25 on: March 14, 2012, 10:45:32 AM »

I happen to think that mormons are extraordinarily nice people. I like them alot. I intensely despise their religion. I do think that it is not Christian. However, that does not mean I hate Mormons as people. They should not be discriminated against at all. I also think that nobody should attack individual mormons because of their religion. We should focus on the error made by their "prophet".

Quote
Every group "shuns". Every
True, but there is a difference. Mormon shunning is a really different matter.

Quote
If you are a US citizen and have a conscious or are Orthodox and actually observing Lent, go knock on a Mormon's door and apologize.
I dont understand this. Everyone upset and offended everyone else in history. I had nothing to do with it so no, I wont apologize. Just like I wont apologize for slavery, nor should black folks in general apologize for the black panthers, or all Germans apologize for nazis, or all Russians apologize for Communism. We are not in kindergarten anymore. Everyone pissed off, pissed on, pushed down, killed, maimed, persecuted, raped, pillaged, and hurt everyone else at one point or another. Everyone....except preschool kids and the Amish.


So can we all act like big kids and just go on living without needing our noses wiped? Does the world really stop if we dont apologize for something?


PP
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« Reply #26 on: October 23, 2012, 12:15:00 AM »

Mormon says he’ll miss ‘cult’ lifestyle
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« Reply #27 on: October 23, 2012, 03:25:12 PM »

Every group "shuns". Every.

Every.

I disagree
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« Reply #28 on: October 23, 2012, 03:46:32 PM »

lol here we go again.

What would be a good discussion is why Christians, who view Mormons as non-Christians, would want a Mormon as POTUS. Their metaphsics appear a little shaky to me. Cheesy
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« Reply #29 on: October 23, 2012, 03:55:04 PM »

lol here we go again.

What would be a good discussion is why Christians, who view Mormons as non-Christians, would want a Mormon as POTUS. Their metaphsics appear a little shaky to me. Cheesy
Do Mormons believe in metaphysics?
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« Reply #30 on: October 23, 2012, 07:01:49 PM »

lol here we go again.

What would be a good discussion is why Christians, who view Mormons as non-Christians, would want a Mormon as POTUS. Their metaphsics appear a little shaky to me. Cheesy

Why are you baiting a politically charged argument in the public forum area?
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« Reply #31 on: October 23, 2012, 07:12:26 PM »

lol here we go again.

What would be a good discussion is why Christians, who view Mormons as non-Christians, would want a Mormon as POTUS. Their metaphsics appear a little shaky to me. Cheesy

Why are you baiting a politically charged argument in the public forum area?
Not baiting anyone. Feel free to make a thread in politics about it.
 You are put on warning status for 30 days for violating the rule on keeping the thread on target. It is also up to you to start a new thread (on politics in this instance). Thanks, Carl
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« Reply #32 on: October 23, 2012, 07:27:36 PM »

lol here we go again.

What would be a good discussion is why Christians, who view Mormons as non-Christians, would want a Mormon as POTUS. Their metaphsics appear a little shaky to me. Cheesy

Why are you baiting a politically charged argument in the public forum area?
Not baiting anyone. Feel free to make a thread in politics about it.

Dual threads? I think not. I'll just await this thread's almost inevitable transfer.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2012, 07:28:32 PM by Αριστοκλής » Logged

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« Reply #33 on: October 23, 2012, 07:37:26 PM »

lol here we go again.

What would be a good discussion is why Christians, who view Mormons as non-Christians, would want a Mormon as POTUS. Their metaphsics appear a little shaky to me. Cheesy
Do Mormons believe in metaphysics?

Metaepistemologically I find this question more or less vulnerable to the critiques of reason and doubt vis-a-vis the commonly accepted modalities of Christian theological discourse.
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« Reply #34 on: October 23, 2012, 07:38:01 PM »

lol here we go again.

What would be a good discussion is why Christians, who view Mormons as non-Christians, would want a Mormon as POTUS. Their metaphsics appear a little shaky to me. Cheesy
Do Mormons believe in metaphysics?

Metaepistemologically I find this question more or less vulnerable to the critiques of reason and doubt vis-a-vis the commonly accepted modalities of Christian theological discourse.
Epic win.
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« Reply #35 on: October 23, 2012, 09:30:27 PM »

I don't know much about Mormons. Are they like Jehovah's Witnesses?
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« Reply #36 on: October 23, 2012, 10:14:00 PM »

I don't know much about Mormons. Are they like Jehovah's Witnesses?
In some ways, far worse.  Origenists, for one, with some Montanism thrown in.
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« Reply #37 on: October 23, 2012, 10:38:45 PM »

Mormonism is founded within Masonry.

Here are just a few examples.

Joseph Smith and Brigham Young were both high ranking masons.
The highest ceremonies all of them wear aprons.
They want to achieve exaltation (as Gods) like Masons.

They blaspheme Christ calling him the spirit brother of Lucifer
They blaspheme the Theotokos/God saying that they had sex.

Their book of Mormon was only interpreted by 1 man (Joseph Smith)
Their book talks of the Laminites using domesticated animals that did not exist (until USA discovered).
Their book talks of alloys (such as bronze) that did not exist until the USA was discovered.

It's phony baloney laced in blasphemy with a hint of Luciferianism.   But if you like blasphemy and want 10 wives, and a honey-do list a mile long - go for it!
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« Reply #38 on: October 23, 2012, 11:07:38 PM »

Their book talks of alloys (such as bronze) that did not exist until the USA was discovered.

Huh?
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« Reply #39 on: October 23, 2012, 11:21:43 PM »

Well let's be honest, they are a bunch of right-wing weirdos, but being weird is not necessarily a crime.  They didn't deserve the persecution they faced from the United States government. But then again, I won't be apologizing to them anytime soon because as a Mexican I was also a persecuted minority.
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« Reply #40 on: October 24, 2012, 03:30:44 AM »

Their book talks of alloys (such as bronze) that did not exist until the USA was discovered.

Huh?

That one got me too. He just wiped out the entire Bronze Age from human history, not to mention "discovered the USA" as an event.  Wink

And I'm pretty sure that there were two who did their scriptural translations, not one - and neither had any knowledge of Greek except a lexicon.
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« Reply #41 on: October 24, 2012, 06:10:11 AM »

Their book talks of alloys (such as bronze) that did not exist until the USA was discovered.

Huh?

That one got me too. He just wiped out the entire Bronze Age from human history, not to mention "discovered the USA" as an event.  Wink

And I'm pretty sure that there were two who did their scriptural translations, not one - and neither had any knowledge of Greek except a lexicon.

I think what he meant to say was that the Book of Mormon refers to bronze being in use in pre-Columbian America, when it wasn't known in the New World until after its discovery by Europeans. Of course, the Book of Mormon is riddled with such errors (horses prior to their introduction by the Spanish, Semitic Native Americans etc.)

James
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« Reply #42 on: October 24, 2012, 10:02:24 AM »

Their book talks of alloys (such as bronze) that did not exist until the USA was discovered.

Huh?

That one got me too. He just wiped out the entire Bronze Age from human history, not to mention "discovered the USA" as an event.  Wink

And I'm pretty sure that there were two who did their scriptural translations, not one - and neither had any knowledge of Greek except a lexicon.

I think what he meant to say was that the Book of Mormon refers to bronze being in use in pre-Columbian America, when it wasn't known in the New World until after its discovery by Europeans. Of course, the Book of Mormon is riddled with such errors (horses prior to their introduction by the Spanish, Semitic Native Americans etc.)

James
Horses did exist (before dying out by 10,000 BCE) in North America prior to the Spanish.
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« Reply #43 on: October 24, 2012, 10:07:32 AM »

Their book talks of alloys (such as bronze) that did not exist until the USA was discovered.

Huh?

That one got me too. He just wiped out the entire Bronze Age from human history, not to mention "discovered the USA" as an event.  Wink

And I'm pretty sure that there were two who did their scriptural translations, not one - and neither had any knowledge of Greek except a lexicon.

I think what he meant to say was that the Book of Mormon refers to bronze being in use in pre-Columbian America, when it wasn't known in the New World until after its discovery by Europeans. Of course, the Book of Mormon is riddled with such errors (horses prior to their introduction by the Spanish, Semitic Native Americans etc.)

James
Horses did exist (before dying out by 10,000 BCE) in North America prior to the Spanish.

I'm well aware of that, but the Book of Mormon is referring to a period of time thousands of years after the extinction of horses in the Americas. I didn't think that I'd really need to make that distinction but apparently I did.

James
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« Reply #44 on: October 25, 2012, 10:00:26 AM »

Quote
(RNS) The Rev. Samuel Wynn admired Billy Graham and his evangelistic association for decades, joining its spiritual crusades and urging fellow Christians to do the same. But no more.

“I will never again support anything by the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association,” said Wynn, the superintendent of a United Methodist Church district in Fayetteville, N.C.

The source of Wynn’s ire: The BGEA’s recent removal of language on its website calling Mormonism a “cult.”
....
Howell Scott, senior pastor Bethel Baptist Church in Alamogordo, N.M., said the BGEA’s declassification of Mormonism as a cult “will have disastrous unintended consequences.”

“The most immediate consequence will be the acceptance and approval of Mormonism as a legitimate Christian 'denomination' or faith group,” Scott wrote on his blog last week.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2012, 10:01:15 AM by Jetavan » Logged

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« Reply #45 on: October 25, 2012, 10:17:50 AM »

Well let's be honest, they are a bunch of right-wing weirdos, but being weird is not necessarily a crime.  They didn't deserve the persecution they faced from the United States government. But then again, I won't be apologizing to them anytime soon because as a Mexican I was also a persecuted minority.

I don't think Americans understand what persecution is. haha
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« Reply #46 on: October 25, 2012, 10:23:32 AM »

lol here we go again.

What would be a good discussion is why Christians, who view Mormons as non-Christians, would want a Mormon as POTUS. Their metaphsics appear a little shaky to me. Cheesy

Why are you baiting a politically charged argument in the public forum area?
Not baiting anyone. Feel free to make a thread in politics about it.

Dual threads? I think not. I'll just await this thread's almost inevitable transfer.
This whole thread isn't going to get moved to Politics just because one person decides to submit a poorly conceived political reply.
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« Reply #47 on: October 25, 2012, 10:36:13 AM »


You have everything to apologize for. I suggest speaking to your Priest.

Before I go speak to my priest, it would be good if I got a better understanding what exactly I have to apologize for concerning Mormons. Please enlighten me.


There is a clue.

 

What gives you the right to speak to me this way?


Oh you Orthodox don't believe in "rights" . . .

We do. But you also have the right to be polite to people. Especially when they have done you no harm.
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« Reply #48 on: October 30, 2012, 12:13:59 PM »

Photo Slideshow: A View Inside a Mormon Service.

This is not the ultra-secret Temple rite; it's just a regular Mormon church service.
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« Reply #49 on: October 30, 2012, 12:40:29 PM »


Everyone joins a cult and is brainwashed. It is called being born.


You apparently have a distorted definition of what a cult is, and what entails brainwashing.  Are you suggesting that life is nothing more than a cult?  What an insult that is to God who created you and gave you free will.  If you are brainwashed, that would be because you don't have the willpower to think for yourself.

How many people, and I thought this included you, actually took the steps to search and find Orthodoxy.  Those people, I would say, were not brainwashed, but, thought for themselves.


If you are a US citizen and have a conscious or are Orthodox and actually observing Lent, go knock on a Mormon's door and apologize.

You are welcome.


Apologize?  I've never even met one.  What would I have to apologize for?  


No one thinks for themselves. There is no such thing.

You have everything to apologize for. I suggest speaking to your Priest.

AKA you pulled that out of your *** right?


You are warned for 60 days for violating the rule on obscenity, particularly the following section" "Except for "BS," all acronyms (STFU, WTF, etc.), abbreviations (F-off, etc.), and semi-censored versions (F**K, BULLS**T, etc.) of forbidden words are also forbidden."  By saying "you pulled that out of your ***," you clearly used a forbidden obscenity. If you have any questions/objections, feel free to PM me. Carl Kraeff
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« Reply #50 on: October 30, 2012, 03:27:23 PM »

Well let's be honest, they are a bunch of right-wing weirdos, but being weird is not necessarily a crime.  They didn't deserve the persecution they faced from the United States government. But then again, I won't be apologizing to them anytime soon because as a Mexican I was also a persecuted minority.

I don't think Americans understand what persecution is. haha

I think a brief scan of the Wikipedia page on Mormon history might show that some do.
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« Reply #51 on: October 30, 2012, 03:44:18 PM »

Derailed from this thread: http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,43540.msg720598.html

I've seen the Mormon PBS Doc and let me say the most surprising thing out of all of it: Tal Bachman was a mormon! She's So High will never be the same again  Cry

Shattered dreams aside, I must say the doc was just OK. orthonorm feels that the persecution against Mormons is wrong, well so is the Mormons that shun their own families when they "apostasize" from the "church" they belong to. Or how about all those missionary abuses that goes on? Or how about extorting it's own members to fund a $3billion mall in the name of Jesus?

Start reading:
http://www.exmormon.org/

I don't mean to engender Fr. Serb's wrath, but I just felt a need to chime in here.  While the Mormons may not always use their funds wisely (and I would also object to the idea it is extortion that they require you give them a portion of your check, unless God was extorting farmers...), to pretend that everything Mormon is bad is a tad extreme.  For instance, my mother for several years worked in residential property management.  Countless times, during her years there, tenants would call in to say that the Mormon Church would be paying their rent for a while.  The Mormons certainly look out for their own.  And if you are going to attack the Mormons for shunning, you might as well attack the Amish too.


That said, let's not be too hasty to start comparing one religious group with another in "crimes against humanity". Each religious group has its share of horrible history and despicable deeds. I was addressing orthonorm's insinuating reply that Mormons are good people and have been injusticed by the good ol USA. I can only think of another obvious larger group which was raped and pillaged, but hey this is the land of religious freedom! Actually it's not.

Not every Mormon is bad, I never said all of them were. I think the worst atrocity the Mormons ever committed were making their own hot chocolate. It was awful and an embarrassment to such a connoisseur such as myself.

Okay. but seriously, the real atrocity here is their entire religion is founded upon lies and fabrication out of the mouth of a genuine charlatan. There are Mormons, in their own camp, who know it's a lie and will do anything it takes to cover it up much like our beloved Muslims when it comes to manuscripts of the Qua'ran. I mean with the Mormon establishment being one of the biggest money making ventures, why would you want the lie to end?

I have meet a lot of nice Mormons and some not so nice, but in every religion in the world it is the same.   I know I will get flamed for this, but I was watching a video of communist tearing down Churches in Russia and frankly I see the same spirit at work in mormonism and other sects.  Sure communism had visual direct effects and terror, but other sects do the same but you don't necessarily see the effects at first but what they do is tear down a chunk of truth from the Church and remake it into their liking.  So, sure they are nice, friendly and helpful but at the same time they are horrible, destructive, etc.
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« Reply #52 on: October 30, 2012, 04:32:05 PM »

As I read these posts - most of this topic - I wonder at how our former Mormon members react without replying here. I might as well wonder at what a Mormon inquirer would think of our community and the Church in general.
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« Reply #53 on: October 30, 2012, 06:59:19 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!


I just wanted to chime to mention how generally nice and hospitable my experience with Mormons have been.  It is a weird religion, and a weirder culture to say the least, but all around even the most bigoted Mormons I've met and known were quite polite and helpful.  In a crazy, self-centered world we can't expect to change everyone's negative personality issues like bigotry, racism, prejudice, hatred, tendencies towards violence, and especially blasphemous heresies, but the least we can hope for is for people to be nice about their beliefs.  We can only changes hearts one at a time, and this includes our own, and further its a process that takes time.  Being nice and polite even about fundamental disagreements is all we can ask for because it makes the time pass much easier Smiley

stay blessed,
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« Reply #54 on: October 31, 2012, 12:55:55 PM »

Ok as an ex Mormon, now Orthodox, I will chime in.  Mormons as a people can be some of the nicest people you have ever met, caring and will go out of their way to help. However some (actually quite a few) who seem nice will only remain nice if it seems you are open to their religion and once they realize you have no attention in joining gradually drift away, or just up and ignore you from that point on.

Should they be discriminated against, of course not. We should not discriminate against any group. The History of Mormonism in the US is quite muddy. Both sides are equally guilty in what happen. Their was enough blame to pass around.  Look into it, I do not have the time to point out all that happened.

The main problem is in doctrine.  I could go and list all difference but it would take awhile. (actually I am working on just that).

Should we discuss our difference, I believe yes, with Christ in our hearts and with love, not hate.
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« Reply #55 on: October 31, 2012, 03:34:37 PM »

Ok as an ex Mormon, now Orthodox, I will chime in.  Mormons as a people can be some of the nicest people you have ever met, caring and will go out of their way to help. However some (actually quite a few) who seem nice will only remain nice if it seems you are open to their religion and once they realize you have no attention in joining gradually drift away, or just up and ignore you from that point on.

Should they be discriminated against, of course not. We should not discriminate against any group. The History of Mormonism in the US is quite muddy. Both sides are equally guilty in what happen. Their was enough blame to pass around.  Look into it, I do not have the time to point out all that happened.

The main problem is in doctrine.  I could go and list all difference but it would take awhile. (actually I am working on just that).

Should we discuss our difference, I believe yes, with Christ in our hearts and with love, not hate.

I can also say that all the Mormons I have known have been super nice people. That said, I am actually relieved that they are like most folks in drifting away when they lose interest. I certainly second that we should talk about Mormonism (and with Mormons) with love and not hate.
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« Reply #56 on: October 31, 2012, 05:21:51 PM »

Ok as an ex Mormon, now Orthodox, I will chime in.  Mormons as a people can be some of the nicest people you have ever met, caring and will go out of their way to help. However some (actually quite a few) who seem nice will only remain nice if it seems you are open to their religion and once they realize you have no attention in joining gradually drift away, or just up and ignore you from that point on.

Should they be discriminated against, of course not. We should not discriminate against any group. The History of Mormonism in the US is quite muddy. Both sides are equally guilty in what happen. Their was enough blame to pass around.  Look into it, I do not have the time to point out all that happened.

The main problem is in doctrine.  I could go and list all difference but it would take awhile. (actually I am working on just that).

Should we discuss our difference, I believe yes, with Christ in our hearts and with love, not hate.

I can also say that all the Mormons I have known have been super nice people. That said, I am actually relieved that they are like most folks in drifting away when they lose interest. I certainly second that we should talk about Mormonism (and with Mormons) with love and not hate.
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« Reply #57 on: October 31, 2012, 05:28:07 PM »

You can say that because you aren't surrounded by them.

I for one, am. And right next to their border too (just a mountain hop away).

You do know the difference between a fake nice and a genuine nice right?
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« Reply #58 on: October 31, 2012, 05:52:13 PM »

As a teacher I can say they are, in general, the most well-behaved and motivated students in my public high school.
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« Reply #59 on: October 31, 2012, 08:07:43 PM »

Most of the LDS at my old Branch were "fake nice." There were some that were truly nice people, but those weren't the norm. This fact was probably the main reason I started fading away almost immediately after the missionaries that converted me got transferred out. I'm not saying this is the universal case for Mormons everywhere, but it's my experience nonetheless.
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« Reply #60 on: November 01, 2012, 10:14:01 AM »

You can say that because you aren't surrounded by them.

I for one, am. And right next to their border too (just a mountain hop away).

You do know the difference between a fake nice and a genuine nice right?

I understand fully, I live in Utah!

Funny things is Mormons outside of Utah usually act/interact differently than those who grew up in the state.
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« Reply #61 on: November 01, 2012, 11:23:42 AM »

Quite close to my home (and very close to my parish) there is a unique Mormon temple in Poland, so it's easy to meet them in the area (they always have some black badges with the full name of this "Church").

However, personally I talk with a Mormon one time in my life, in the Warsaw Old Town. I was wandering with my friends when a guy stopped us and showed a map of USA and asked where was Chicago. One of my friends answered correctly, so the Mormon started talking about their faith and theirs mission in Poland. He finished with a claim "We are also Christians, the same as you!" and asked "You are Catholics, aren't you?". So all my friends confirmed it. I was the last one and I said "No, I'm an Orthodox" (it was a few years ago and I wasn't yet officially in the Orthodox Church). He was scared, because it's ruined his theory and speech. He began waving his arms and repeating "We respect all, we respect all!". It was the end of his proselyting us.
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« Reply #62 on: November 01, 2012, 12:19:50 PM »

My husband's family is Mormon, and they are genuinely nice people. Their friends from church are also nice, normal people that have good days and bad days, just like everybody else. This is outside of Utah, so they aren't saturated in a Mormon culture... however, my sister-in-law married a Utah Mormon, and the weirdest thing about him is that he doesn't have a taste for seafood. I will never understand how landlocked people manage.

There was a Mormon girl in my high school who was syrupy, fakey sweet. After getting to know her better, I realized she wasn't faking it. I don't know why I get suspicious when someone seems "too" nice, but I'm glad I didn't disregard her completely.
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« Reply #63 on: November 01, 2012, 04:55:55 PM »

Los Angeles Review of Books on the similarity between John Bunyan's Pilgrims Progress and Smith's Book of Morman. An interesting read....

http://lareviewofbooks.org/article.php?id=1135&fulltext=1 

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« Reply #64 on: November 01, 2012, 05:02:30 PM »

It's funny, I have never met one single mormon before, only a couple of really friendly Jehovah's Witnesses.
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« Reply #65 on: November 01, 2012, 05:56:12 PM »

When I was a teenager, my father's then-wife converted to Mormonism after being evangelized by a contractor that my father had hired to do some work on his house. So I have seen and heard their proselytization techniques up close.

Like most people have said, Mormons are generally incredibly nice. Even the contractor (who didn't do a very good job; perhaps he was distracted by the idea of converting our family) was very nice. As far as I can tell, genuinely nice. But I noticed something: My father, who was often gone for weeks at a time for work, had asked the contractor and the Mormon missionaries who started to come by when his wife expressed an interest in their religion, to please refrain from bringing their religious discussions into his house (around me and his wife) when he is not there. I think he didn't want to come back from a trip and find his family "Mormonized" right under his nose, and with a bill for supposed work to pay to their proselytizer. A fair enough request, right? He is the head of the household, at the time I was under age, and something as important as conversion to a new religion should not be done in a sneaky fashion.

For some reason, the Mormons did not respect his wishes, despite having told him to his face that they would not come by anymore unless he was there. Instead, they waited until he was gone again, and then a few days later they would stop by. If his wife answered the door, they would come in as though her interest invalidated my father's request. If I answered the door, they would ask for her, and if she wasn't there they would try to come in anyway. When I reminded them that they are not supposed to be here, they would very nicely say "yeah, we won't come in; we just wanted to stop by and see how you guys are because you're part of our territory to cover for house-visits" (or whatever they call annoying people by dropping by unannounced to try to convert them). I'd tell them thanks for your visit, but please don't do it again. Then they'd do it again a little while later.

I told my father that they still occasionally came by, and he was clearly upset about it. He told me to just keep telling them to come back when he was there, which I did (and when he was there he would make them stay out on the front lawn...hahaha). Eventually this whole situation, wherein his wife adopted this religion through what he felt was deception and a lack of care on the part of the Mormons for the peace of our household, put a lot of stress on their marriage and they divorced (not just because of this, of course, but I know it didn't help at all). My father's ex-wife is no longer Mormon, and despite occasional threats of a lawsuit from the contractor who started all this (my father refused to pay him because he did a bad job, and took much longer to do than they had agreed upon, probably because he was busy converting my father's wife when he should have been working), as far as I know the Mormons have placed our family home on some sort of Mormon-hater blacklist (maybe they blame my father for his ex-wife's defection? I don't know; all I know is that they don't come around anymore, because no doubt they remember being left out on the lawn and getting yelled at and being told to never come back...it really got bad for a while there).

So whenever I hear about Mormons being so pro-family, I just have to laugh a little bit. Pro-Mormon family, sure, but if you're not Mormon apparently they feel less compelled to respect your family or your wishes. They certainly didn't seem to care about all the stress they caused in my father's marriage, that's for sure.

But still, they're nice people on the individual level.
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« Reply #66 on: November 01, 2012, 11:37:37 PM »

So whenever I hear about Mormons being so pro-family, I just have to laugh a little bit. Pro-Mormon family, sure, but if you're not Mormon apparently they feel less compelled to respect your family or your wishes. They certainly didn't seem to care about all the stress they caused in my father's marriage, that's for sure.

But still, they're nice people on the individual level.

Respecting the wishes of the family and giving the family space is not often thought about, so Mormons don't tend to include it as part of their "pro-family" position. They encourage families to spend time together and build relationships, because you're building eternal bonds. This long term perspective is strongly focused on, and encourages people to put more work into their family. But requests made by the Church are not seen as encroachments, even though Mormons in good standing see them as obligatory. That's seen as something separate from the "family" stance.

What happened to your family, dzheremi, wasn't a Mormon tactic, but a "they got excited that someone was interested in their faith and proceeded to do stupid things" tactic. I'm sure they were surprised that your dad didn't come around to seeing his ex-wife's side of things and convert, too--because isn't "the unbelieving husband sanctified by the wife"? I've seen and heard of this mistake being made by lots of people in lots of different religions, unfortunately.
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« Reply #67 on: November 01, 2012, 11:46:53 PM »

Yes, of course. I don't mean to imply that this is something that Mormons do by virtue of being Mormons, but it is something that these particular Mormons did do, and it provides a rather different picture than the standard view of Mormons. That's all.
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« Reply #68 on: November 02, 2012, 02:30:52 AM »

As I read these posts - most of this topic - I wonder at how our former Mormon members react without replying here. I might as well wonder at what a Mormon inquirer would think of our community and the Church in general.

Speaking for myself, it is an incredible turn off. These kinds of threads, while rare, show me an entirely different side of posters on here, a side I don't like. It was the main reason I stopped coming here. I come here tonight after seeing someone mention this site on FB today and this is the thread that jumps out at me. As to the second part of your above statement, I think the general inquirer would be quite likely to judge your church by the spirit the members are displaying on here and not want to learn more. "By their fruits you will know them."

I probably won't be back on for months. If people want to dog pile on telling me how horrible what I wrote is and how wrong it is to judge, go for it.
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« Reply #69 on: November 02, 2012, 09:38:34 AM »

Best wishes to you, Marat.

Obviously I suspected this possibility. There are other forums where this sort of thing does not happen.
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« Reply #70 on: November 02, 2012, 12:46:07 PM »

As I read these posts - most of this topic - I wonder at how our former Mormon members react without replying here. I might as well wonder at what a Mormon inquirer would think of our community and the Church in general.

Speaking for myself, it is an incredible turn off. These kinds of threads, while rare, show me an entirely different side of posters on here, a side I don't like. It was the main reason I stopped coming here. I come here tonight after seeing someone mention this site on FB today and this is the thread that jumps out at me. As to the second part of your above statement, I think the general inquirer would be quite likely to judge your church by the spirit the members are displaying on here and not want to learn more. "By their fruits you will know them."

I probably won't be back on for months. If people want to dog pile on telling me how horrible what I wrote is and how wrong it is to judge, go for it.

A little bit of background info on myself: I married a Mormon when I was a Catholic. We both believed that with sufficient prayer and study, we could find the Truth. Both before and after marriage, we'd go to both Mass and Sacrament Meeting each Sunday. I had the missionary talks, and he did RCIA. I read the Book of Mormon a couple times, got on LDS apologetic websites, and did what I could to build an LDS framework so I could understand where my husband was coming from. My husband did the same for me. Now he's an atheist and I'm Orthodox.  Roll Eyes

I do wish you would stay on the forums. Whenever I see someone say something wrong about Catholics, I know that a Catholic will jump in and correct them. But whenever someone says something incorrect about Mormons - even if it's something that might have once been taught but no modern day Mormon would believe - I have such a hard time not saying anything, because I know it's far less likely that anyone will defend them. In part, this is because Catholics outnumber Mormons in general, but I'd hate for it to be further skewed because people with LDS backgrounds don't feel welcome here. Ex-Mormons, I think, are more likely than most to look for the ancient Church--the LDS Church strongly emphasizes the importance of being part of the Church founded by Christ and his apostles.

I hope they aren't being driven away.
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« Reply #71 on: November 02, 2012, 11:16:30 PM »

It's funny, I have never met one single mormon before, only a couple of really friendly Jehovah's Witnesses.

Ditto
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« Reply #72 on: November 03, 2012, 02:44:32 AM »

Mormons = Gnostics!
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« Reply #73 on: November 03, 2012, 04:33:16 AM »

As I read these posts - most of this topic - I wonder at how our former Mormon members react without replying here. I might as well wonder at what a Mormon inquirer would think of our community and the Church in general.

Speaking for myself, it is an incredible turn off. These kinds of threads, while rare, show me an entirely different side of posters on here, a side I don't like. It was the main reason I stopped coming here. I come here tonight after seeing someone mention this site on FB today and this is the thread that jumps out at me. As to the second part of your above statement, I think the general inquirer would be quite likely to judge your church by the spirit the members are displaying on here and not want to learn more. "By their fruits you will know them."

I probably won't be back on for months. If people want to dog pile on telling me how horrible what I wrote is and how wrong it is to judge, go for it.
Hey I still stand by my hot chocolate comment.
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« Reply #74 on: November 07, 2012, 03:38:02 PM »

Mormons = Gnostics!
Mormons believe that God has a physical body, that matter is eternal, that salvation requires good deeds. How is that gnostic?
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« Reply #75 on: November 07, 2012, 03:40:17 PM »

Despite the defeat for Romney, Mormonism came out a winner, said Philip Barlow, chair of Mormon history and culture at Utah State University.

"It developed a thicker skin in the eyes of the world," Barlow said, "and the world could see that a Mormon who runs for office isn’t, by definition, a nut case."
....
"For us, this has really been an opportunity to really depict who we are," LDS spokesman Michael Otterson told The Washington Post. "The opportunity to set aside some of the long-standing misunderstandings -- more misunderstandings and lack of education than prejudice."
....
Bushman said that even negative aspects of the "Mormon moment" bore positive results.

"So many times people cover up real questions about Mormons by trying to be polite," he said. "Bringing them out makes it possible to deal with them and lead to a better conversation down the line."
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« Reply #76 on: November 07, 2012, 03:41:51 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I agree, this was an almost Kennedy moment for Mormons, as just as Kennedy brought Catholics out of the darkness and into the mainstream, suddenly Americans are realizing that, "Hey, maybe Mormons aren't so bad after all, a little weird sure, but aren't we all?"


stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #77 on: November 07, 2012, 03:51:06 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I agree, this was an almost Kennedy moment for Mormons, as just as Kennedy brought Catholics out of the darkness and into the mainstream, suddenly Americans are realizing that, "Hey, maybe Mormons aren't so bad after all, a little weird sure, but aren't we all?"


stay blessed,
habte selassie

I guess we need an Orthodox candidate then!
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« Reply #78 on: November 07, 2012, 04:18:36 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I agree, this was an almost Kennedy moment for Mormons, as just as Kennedy brought Catholics out of the darkness and into the mainstream, suddenly Americans are realizing that, "Hey, maybe Mormons aren't so bad after all, a little weird sure, but aren't we all?"


stay blessed,
habte selassie

I guess we need an Orthodox candidate then!

I know President Taft's great grandson. He was just chrismated a few months back. We could get him in there. Wink

In Christ,
Andrew
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« Reply #79 on: December 09, 2013, 08:50:09 PM »

Those Mormons missionaries are a crazy bunch:

Quote
My experience on my mission in Germany was nothing but a positive one (if you look past the horrific scenario of my death and the excruciating pain of being resuscitated).
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« Reply #80 on: December 09, 2013, 09:50:43 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I agree, this was an almost Kennedy moment for Mormons, as just as Kennedy brought Catholics out of the darkness and into the mainstream, suddenly Americans are realizing that, "Hey, maybe Mormons aren't so bad after all, a little weird sure, but aren't we all?"


stay blessed,
habte selassie

I guess we need an Orthodox candidate then!

I know President Taft's great grandson. He was just chrismated a few months back. We could get him in there. Wink

In Christ,
Andrew
We got one of our own running the GOP now.
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« Reply #81 on: December 10, 2013, 09:01:03 AM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I agree, this was an almost Kennedy moment for Mormons, as just as Kennedy brought Catholics out of the darkness and into the mainstream, suddenly Americans are realizing that, "Hey, maybe Mormons aren't so bad after all, a little weird sure, but aren't we all?"


stay blessed,
habte selassie

I guess we need an Orthodox candidate then!

I know President Taft's great grandson. He was just chrismated a few months back. We could get him in there. Wink

In Christ,
Andrew
We got one of our own running the GOP now.

Huh, learn something new every day.
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« Reply #82 on: August 21, 2014, 10:19:12 AM »

Meet the Mormons. Coming Soon to a Theater Near You!

Quote
Meet the Mormons is a feature-length documentary that tells the stories of six members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints from around the world. The film will appear in theaters across the United States beginning on October 10th, 2014.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2014, 10:19:44 AM by Jetavan » Logged

If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.
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« Reply #83 on: August 21, 2014, 11:04:30 AM »

Meet the Mormons. Coming Soon to a Theater Near You!

Quote
Meet the Mormons is a feature-length documentary that tells the stories of six members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints from around the world. The film will appear in theaters across the United States beginning on October 10th, 2014.
Goebbels would be proud.

PP
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« Reply #84 on: August 21, 2014, 11:23:11 AM »

Most entertaining read EVER about Mormonism by the high-ranking ex-Mormon grandson of LDS President/Prophet John Taylor (Mormons hate this book):

http://www.amazon.com/Nightfall-Nauvoo-Samuel-Woolley-Taylor/dp/B0006C5HDW#customerReviews

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/191520.Nightfall_at_Nauvoo

GET YE THIS BOOK! It's really, really enjoyable -not just informative.

« Last Edit: August 21, 2014, 11:31:43 AM by xariskai » Logged

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« Reply #85 on: August 21, 2014, 04:37:04 PM »

Most entertaining read EVER about Mormonism by the high-ranking ex-Mormon grandson of LDS President/Prophet John Taylor (Mormons hate this book)
Hate it? One of the Mormon reviewers gave it five stars!  Shocked
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If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.
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« Reply #86 on: August 21, 2014, 07:41:49 PM »

Most entertaining read EVER about Mormonism by the high-ranking ex-Mormon grandson of LDS President/Prophet John Taylor (Mormons hate this book)
Hate it? One of the Mormon reviewers gave it five stars!  Shocked
Exceptions to the rule notwithstanding
« Last Edit: August 21, 2014, 07:45:22 PM by xariskai » Logged

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