Author Topic: Iconography of St. Savior, Moscow  (Read 2261 times)

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Offline Keble

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Iconography of St. Savior, Moscow
« on: October 11, 2004, 11:35:36 PM »
The three-dimensional, "westernized" techniques are not uncommon in the eastern Slavic countries (Russia, Belarus, and Ukraine).  Here are a few from the Cathedral of Christ the Savior in Moscow.

http://www.xxc.ru/foto/recon/s01/index.htm

Am I the only one who is looking at the icon of the Godhead in the dome and scratching my head? Are we seeing a new art style being invented here?

Offline Anastasios

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Re:Iconography of St. Savior, Moscow
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2004, 11:38:34 PM »
No, the Cathedral got money from artistic foundations because it was slated as a reconstruction of the cathedral that was destroyed. So they had to do it almost exactly like it was before.

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Offline penelope

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Re:Iconography of St. Savior, Moscow
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2004, 10:17:35 AM »
Isn't it problematic that God the Father is being represented?!
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Offline Elisha

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Re:Iconography of St. Savior, Moscow
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2004, 12:00:41 PM »
Isn't it problematic that God the Father is being represented?!

Yes, but it happens anyway in some churches.  If the point was to recreate the church exactly how it was, then I understand the 'bad' iconography.

Offline Anastasios

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Re:Iconography of St. Savior, Moscow
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2004, 12:25:58 PM »
Isn't it problematic that God the Father is being represented?!

Not really. Every once and awhile a council would try to say that it shouldn't happen but that never stopped anyone from doing it. It's been going on since iconography was invented.

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Offline Anastasios

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Re:Iconography of St. Savior, Moscow
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2004, 12:28:02 PM »
Here's a book on the subject. I haven't read it so I don't know its thesis:

http://www.svspress.com/product_info.php?products_id=106
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Offline Fr. David

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Re:Iconography of St. Savior, Moscow
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2004, 12:35:39 PM »
Would this not fly in the face of Ec. Council #7, with the whole "Christ is the image of the Fr. that can be depicted" thing?  

Isn't the point of iconography that now, through the incarnation, God the Son can be depicted as the Incarnate Christ, but the Father, in His unseeable form, cannot?

This has always bothered me.  I still don't agree w/it, and many priests have said things like, "yeah, it's wrong, but we do it anyway."  Well, if it's wrong, then...

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Offline Anastasios

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Re:Iconography of St. Savior, Moscow
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2004, 12:46:54 PM »
Some say that depicting God the Father is actually depicting the Ancient of Days who appeared to Daniel. Go figure.

As for flying the face of #7, maybe that was a disciplinary canon enforced on people who never really had nor did accept it? Maybe it was unrealistic?

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Offline Fr. David

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Re:Iconography of St. Savior, Moscow
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2004, 02:50:13 PM »
Huh.  The "Ancient of Days" icons that I've seen, though, had "Grampa God," as I like to call that particular "depiction," with ICXC around Him.  So still Jesus, apparently?

How would not being able to depict God the Father -- a depiction which provoked the wrath of Moses when done via the golden calf -- a Being that no man has seen nor can see, of Whom Christ is the Image and Whose face would have killed Moses -- how can not depicting Him be "unrealistic"?

I'm just wondering...if the point was that we couldn't legitimately or worthily depict our God without thereby lessening Him -- that is, before Christ, who can be depicted, came along -- how is it appropriate for us to attempt to portray in any manner He Who still cannot be seen?
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