Author Topic: OO-EO mixed couples  (Read 1994 times)

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Offline Gorazd

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OO-EO mixed couples
« on: March 10, 2012, 01:41:28 PM »
Hi all,

Is here anyone here who is OO, married to an EO partner, or vice versa? What are your experiences? Do you attend church together, how is the spiritual life, acceptance from families etc?


Thanks in advance

Gorazd

Offline Severian

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Re: OO-EO mixed couples
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2012, 04:08:02 PM »
At my Church I know of a young man of both Greek and Egyptian descent. He lived in Greece for a time and he was freely communed in Greek Churches there even though he was baptized OO, and he has been offered communion by several Greek Priests here in the States.
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Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re: OO-EO mixed couples
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2012, 06:38:01 PM »
I know of at least one couple, a Greek Orthodox and Coptic Orthodox couple, one of whom is a member here but I've not seen him online in a while and it's not appropriate for me to answer for him.
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Offline Dimitrius

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Re: OO-EO mixed couples
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2012, 01:56:52 AM »
Hello All,

I am a Greek Orthodox married to a Coptic Orthodox. My wife and I agreed that we would attend the Coptic Church since I was familiar with both churches but she is familiar with only the Coptic Church. I didn't 'convert' to OO but I have been attending the Coptic Church for years. Just for clarification, I am convinced more than ever that there really isn't a true difference any more between EO and OO. I take communion in both Greek and Coptic churches, although I mostly attend a Coptic church with my wife and children.

I was tonsured a deacon in the Coptic church with the rank of Eugnostus (sp) by the hands of H.H Pope Shenounda III in 1989. The priest who allowed me to come to the Coptic church in 1988 new I was Greek Orthodox and did not ask me to 'convert'.

Its time EO and OO re-established communion. The separation between these two churches is meaningless now and insisting that one group has to admit they ere wrong and 'repent' only makes things worse. Chalsedon has been discussed at nausium and the conclusion is the OO are not Monophysites and the EO are not Nestorian.

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Re: OO-EO mixed couples
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2012, 02:58:09 AM »
Hello All,

I am a Greek Orthodox married to a Coptic Orthodox. My wife and I agreed that we would attend the Coptic Church since I was familiar with both churches but she is familiar with only the Coptic Church. I didn't 'convert' to OO but I have been attending the Coptic Church for years. Just for clarification, I am convinced more than ever that there really isn't a true difference any more between EO and OO. I take communion in both Greek and Coptic churches, although I mostly attend a Coptic church with my wife and children.

I was tonsured a deacon in the Coptic church with the rank of Eugnostus (sp) by the hands of H.H Pope Shenounda III in 1989. The priest who allowed me to come to the Coptic church in 1988 new I was Greek Orthodox and did not ask me to 'convert'.

Its time EO and OO re-established communion. The separation between these two churches is meaningless now and insisting that one group has to admit they ere wrong and 'repent' only makes things worse. Chalsedon has been discussed at nausium and the conclusion is the OO are not Monophysites and the EO are not Nestorian.


Wonderful post brother. I agree with you 100%. I am Ethiopian Orthodox, but I commune at the Greek Orthodox Church in our city since our Ethiopian Church is 7 hours away. What a blessing that you were tonsured by His Holiness Pope Shenouda III of blessed memory! Let us pray for the spirit of love, unity, and reconciliation to prevail amongst all EO and OO brethren. Christ is One, the Holy Trinity is One, and our Churches are One.


Selam
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Offline Alpo

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Re: OO-EO mixed couples
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2012, 04:29:17 AM »
The separation between these two churches is meaningless now and insisting that one group has to admit they ere wrong and 'repent' only makes things worse.

Thank you for theological argument.

Offline mountainman

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Re: OO-EO mixed couples
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2012, 08:33:04 AM »
Hello All,

I am a Greek Orthodox married to a Coptic Orthodox. My wife and I agreed that we would attend the Coptic Church since I was familiar with both churches but she is familiar with only the Coptic Church. I didn't 'convert' to OO but I have been attending the Coptic Church for years. Just for clarification, I am convinced more than ever that there really isn't a true difference any more between EO and OO. I take communion in both Greek and Coptic churches, although I mostly attend a Coptic church with my wife and children.

I was tonsured a deacon in the Coptic church with the rank of Eugnostus (sp) by the hands of H.H Pope Shenounda III in 1989. The priest who allowed me to come to the Coptic church in 1988 new I was Greek Orthodox and did not ask me to 'convert'.

Its time EO and OO re-established communion. The separation between these two churches is meaningless now and insisting that one group has to admit they ere wrong and 'repent' only makes things worse. Chalsedon has been discussed at nausium and the conclusion is the OO are not Monophysites and the EO are not Nestorian.


Wonderful post brother. I agree with you 100%. I am Ethiopian Orthodox, but I commune at the Greek Orthodox Church in our city since our Ethiopian Church is 7 hours away. What a blessing that you were tonsured by His Holiness Pope Shenouda III of blessed memory! Let us pray for the spirit of love, unity, and reconciliation to prevail amongst all EO and OO brethren. Christ is One, the Holy Trinity is One, and our Churches are One.


Selam

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Offline Gorazd

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Re: OO-EO mixed couples
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2012, 10:08:13 AM »
The separation between these two churches is meaningless now and insisting that one group has to admit they ere wrong and 'repent' only makes things worse.

Thank you for theological argument.
This thread is not about theological arguments, but about experiences in OO-EO marriages. And I am glad to read that Dimitrius has experienced such unity in his marriage and church life.
As for the theological arguments, it does seem to be that the Church of Finland accepts Chambésy without reservation and regularly communes OOs.

Offline Orthodox11

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Re: OO-EO mixed couples
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2012, 12:39:56 PM »
I was tonsured a deacon in the Coptic church with the rank of Eugnostus (sp) by the hands of H.H Pope Shenounda III in 1989.

'Anagnostis' in Greek, 'Reader' in English.

Offline Alpo

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Re: OO-EO mixed couples
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2012, 01:16:59 PM »
The separation between these two churches is meaningless now and insisting that one group has to admit they ere wrong and 'repent' only makes things worse.

Thank you for theological argument.
This thread is not about theological arguments, but about experiences in OO-EO marriages. And I am glad to read that Dimitrius has experienced such unity in his marriage and church life.

And I'm not trying to turn this thread into another theological debate. I'm glad for Dimitrius too and I'm not trying to critisize his opinions. I just find that kind of views kind of like sweeping problems under carpet.

Quote
As for the theological arguments, it does seem to be that the Church of Finland accepts Chambésy without reservation and regularly communes OOs.

Probably so but then again we have a sort of habit of interpreting every Orthodox tradition fairly liberally. Gregorian calendar and other such eccentricities.

Offline peteprint

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Re: OO-EO mixed couples
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2012, 02:38:47 PM »
Hello All,

I am a Greek Orthodox married to a Coptic Orthodox. My wife and I agreed that we would attend the Coptic Church since I was familiar with both churches but she is familiar with only the Coptic Church. I didn't 'convert' to OO but I have been attending the Coptic Church for years. Just for clarification, I am convinced more than ever that there really isn't a true difference any more between EO and OO. I take communion in both Greek and Coptic churches, although I mostly attend a Coptic church with my wife and children.

I was tonsured a deacon in the Coptic church with the rank of Eugnostus (sp) by the hands of H.H Pope Shenounda III in 1989. The priest who allowed me to come to the Coptic church in 1988 new I was Greek Orthodox and did not ask me to 'convert'.

Its time EO and OO re-established communion. The separation between these two churches is meaningless now and insisting that one group has to admit they ere wrong and 'repent' only makes things worse. Chalsedon has been discussed at nausium and the conclusion is the OO are not Monophysites and the EO are not Nestorian.

Thank you for sharing this.  It is high time that inter-communion is established between the OO and EO Churches.  A Syriac OO parish meets on Sunday afternoon at my Serbian parish.  Glory to God!

Offline JamesR

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Re: OO-EO mixed couples
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2012, 03:07:40 PM »
I'm sorry, but don't the Oriental Orthodox reject the final three Ecumenical Councils? Even though we may be similar, I honestly cannot overlook this difference.
...Or it's just possible he's a mouthy young man on an internet forum.
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Offline Gorazd

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Re: OO-EO mixed couples
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2012, 03:14:38 PM »
I'm sorry, but don't the Oriental Orthodox reject the final three Ecumenical Councils? Even though we may be similar, I honestly cannot overlook this difference.

I'm sorry, but can't we have the theological discussion in another thread? (and again, the theological problem has been solved since 1990, only the establishment of full communion, which was planned then, has so far only been achieved in Antioch)

Offline Salpy

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Re: OO-EO mixed couples
« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2012, 03:20:59 PM »
I'm going to ask that this thread be kept on topic.  That is to say that I want it restricted to OO's or EO's in mixed marriages discussing their experiences in their marriages.  Any discussion about ecumenical councils, whether OO's are Orthodox, and unity between our Churches, should be the subject of a new thread.  Posts of a polemical nature, of course, should go in the private forum.

Thanks.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2012, 03:21:45 PM by Salpy »

Offline Orthodox11

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Re: OO-EO mixed couples
« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2012, 03:23:38 PM »
I'm sorry, but don't the Oriental Orthodox reject the final three Ecumenical Councils?

The final four.

Quote
Even though we may be similar, I honestly cannot overlook this difference.

With the greatest of respect, the Christological controversy of the 5th and subsequent centuries is extremely complex, subtle and nuanced - and that's without throwing all of the historical variables into the mix. While I think your concern to not compromise the Orthodoxy of the Church is laudable (and valuable in this time of false ecumenism), I would strongly recommend that you get a firm grasp of Orthodox Christology before you delve into this debate. I'm not trying to stifle honest enquiry, which is always a positive, but think you, being an inquirer into Orthodoxy, would benefit from taking this step by step.

There are plenty of threads on this board where this issue has been discussed in quite some detail should you wish to delve deeper at a later date.

Offline Orthodox11

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Re: OO-EO mixed couples
« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2012, 03:29:48 PM »
Most of the EO-OO couples work much in the same way that other mixed Christian marriages do. The wife communes in her church, the husband in his. The kids in one or the other, but not both. The difference, I would assume, is at home, where feasts and fasts, prayers, etc. can be shared. So while there is division at the chalice, there is unity in the home.

Offline Gorazd

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Re: OO-EO mixed couples
« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2012, 03:39:00 PM »
Most of the EO-OO couples work much in the same way that other mixed Christian marriages do. The wife communes in her church, the husband in his. The kids in one or the other, but not both.

Most? How many such couples do you know? Do you live in one?

Actually, I must say that I know only 2 such couples in Egypt and 2 in Germany, but I have seen them ALL commune together in the EO church with their children. And as far as I am aware, at least one of the families regularly commune together in an OO church as well.

Offline Gorazd

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Re: OO-EO mixed couples
« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2012, 03:44:10 PM »
The difference, I would assume, is at home, where feasts and fasts, prayers, etc. can be shared.
It is not so easy - remember the calendar differences, please. The Coptic Church is on the Old Calendar (or actually, they have their own calendar, which is parallel to the Julian one), where as the EO church of Alexandria is on the New Calendar, just like Greece and Antioch. That means celebrating Christmas twice.

Same for Russian-Armenian couples. Moscow is on the Old Calendar, but Armenians have their own date of Christmas.

What can be celebrated together though, is Easter. Kids from Catholic/Coptic families also get to celebrate Easter twice.

Offline Orthodox11

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Re: OO-EO mixed couples
« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2012, 04:04:28 PM »
It is not so easy - remember the calendar differences, please. The Coptic Church is on the Old Calendar (or actually, they have their own calendar, which is parallel to the Julian one), where as the EO church of Alexandria is on the New Calendar, just like Greece and Antioch. That means celebrating Christmas twice.

That's no different than when a Greek marries a Russian, a Georgian marries an Antiochian, a Copt marries an Armenian, a Syrian marries an Ethiopian, etc. So that's hardly an EO-OO problem.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2012, 04:04:41 PM by Orthodox11 »

Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: OO-EO mixed couples
« Reply #19 on: March 24, 2012, 04:14:20 PM »
I'm sorry, but don't the Oriental Orthodox reject the final three Ecumenical Councils? Even though we may be similar, I honestly cannot overlook this difference.

I'm sorry, but can't we have the theological discussion in another thread? (and again, the theological problem has been solved since 1990, only the establishment of full communion, which was planned then, has so far only been achieved in Antioch)

SOLVED? Not really.
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Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: OO-EO mixed couples
« Reply #20 on: March 24, 2012, 04:36:21 PM »
I'm sorry, but can't we have the theological discussion in another thread? (and again, the theological problem has been solved since 1990, only the establishment of full communion, which was planned then, has so far only been achieved in Antioch)

Antioch is problematic, as you can add the Melkite Greek-Catholics to the love fest. Not exactly a flagship locale for intercommunion based in reality...

Offline ialmisry

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Re: OO-EO mixed couples
« Reply #21 on: March 24, 2012, 05:24:35 PM »
Hi all,

Is here anyone here who is OO, married to an EO partner, or vice versa? What are your experiences? Do you attend church together, how is the spiritual life, acceptance from families etc?


Thanks in advance

Gorazd
LOL.  I was wondering about the change in your avatar jurisdiction.

I've known lots of such couples.  I haven't known any problems, they attend together, and are about as spiritual as the rest of the parishes.  The fruit of one such union was the deacon of Pope Nicholas VI of Alexandria.
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Offline Gorazd

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Re: OO-EO mixed couples
« Reply #22 on: March 24, 2012, 05:53:25 PM »
LOL.  I was wondering about the change in your avatar jurisdiction.
Yes, it refers to the parish of St. Paraskevi in Victoria, Alexandria.

Offline Salpy

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Re: OO-EO mixed couples
« Reply #23 on: March 25, 2012, 10:59:33 PM »
A tangent about communing in each other's Churches was split off and put here:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,43760.msg725524.html#msg725524

Please address all responses to the subject matter of that thread in that thread.

Offline kevlev

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Re: OO-EO mixed couples
« Reply #24 on: April 12, 2012, 07:04:52 PM »
I've been searching and searching for a thread on this issue.
Lately, I've been corresponding with a Coptic girl on an Orthodox dating website. Our conversations are always such a joy, especially since she has such an incredible passion for Christ. If we started dating and it progressed to marriage, what would the demands of each particular church likely be? Do any oc.net users have or know of experiences in this area?
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Offline Severian

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Re: OO-EO mixed couples
« Reply #25 on: April 12, 2012, 07:25:25 PM »
I've been searching and searching for a thread on this issue.
Lately, I've been corresponding with a Coptic girl on an Orthodox dating website. Our conversations are always such a joy, especially since she has such an incredible passion for Christ. If we started dating and it progressed to marriage, what would the demands of each particular church likely be? Do any oc.net users have or know of experiences in this area?
That all depends on your jurisdcition along with other factors.
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Offline kevlev

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Re: OO-EO mixed couples
« Reply #26 on: April 12, 2012, 10:17:09 PM »
Thank-you very much for the response and forgive me, Severian. I will consult my priest on the matter.
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Offline Severian

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Re: OO-EO mixed couples
« Reply #27 on: April 15, 2012, 09:57:09 AM »
Thank-you very much for the response and forgive me, Severian. I will consult my priest on the matter.
Oh, no problem! Glad I could I help. :)

Christ is risen!
« Last Edit: April 15, 2012, 10:04:16 AM by Severian »
"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." -Jesus Christ

Remember the 21 new martyrs in your prayers.

Lord, protect Egypt, Syria, Lebanon & Iraq.

Offline kevlev

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Re: OO-EO mixed couples
« Reply #28 on: April 15, 2012, 06:19:14 PM »
Thank-you very much for the response and forgive me, Severian. I will consult my priest on the matter.
Oh, no problem! Glad I could I help. :)

Christ is risen!

Bless you! :)
Indeed He is risen!!
From my youth have many passions warred against me, but do Thou Thyself defend and save me, O Saviour.