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Author Topic: Anglican Catholics and the experience of the Ordinariate  (Read 544 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: March 10, 2012, 10:14:27 AM »

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Over two years ago, Benedict XVI issued the Apostolic Exhortation "Anglicanorum Coetibus", which allows groups of Anglicans to convert to the Catholic Church collectively while maintaining their Anglican identity. Bishop Keith Newton's shares his thoughts.

In the Ordinariate, it will be impossible to ordain married men as priests...

That's not quite true. There is within the Apostolic Constitution a wonderful passage which says that 'the ordinary may petition a derogation' to ordain a person who is married but has never been an Anglican priest, according to the particular criteria that have been agreed with the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. We haven't done that yet, but there is a possibility. It won't be used very often but there is a possibility that it can happen. There is one person who was never ordained but who was in an Anglican theological college: I think he's got a good basis for petitioning for ordination, as he was going to college and preparing for ordination before the Apostolic Constitution came out.

And what about ten years from now? Will it happen in the future?

The norm will continue to be that the role of a priest is carried out by celibate men. But there's a possibility things could change even if we don't know what the criteria might be. These will need to be worked out with the Congregation.

The Anglican Church has had married priests for centuries. Does this mean that part of the Anglican tradition might be lost in the Ordinariate?

That is certainly true. Who knows how this will be received later on in the Church, we leave it to the Holy Spirit. I don't think it's for us to argue for married clergy. There are married clergy already in the Catholic Church – not Anglicans, I mean Eastern Rite married clergy. So it's a matter of discipline and not of doctrine. Having said that, celibacy is an important gift for the Church and I wouldn't want to deny it anyway. But equally, I obviously know it's possible to be married and a priest.
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« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2012, 07:15:47 PM »

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I think the problem women face is the real vocation.
 
What do you mean?

In the (Anglican, Ed.) Church of England, nowadays the only real vocation for a woman is to be an ordained priest. But actually, in the old days, women served the Church in all sorts of ways. As long as you don't see the priesthood as being more important than other forms of ministry. In the Catholic Church women carry out   incredible ministries in many areas: in parishes, in religious life, in catechesis, and I think that's to be encouraged really.
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« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2012, 07:52:32 PM »

So not keeping married clergy in the Anglican Ordinate seems to pretty much keep churches from joining and fostering vocations.
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« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2012, 09:23:24 PM »

So not keeping married clergy in the Anglican Ordinate seems to pretty much keep churches from joining and fostering vocations.

I suppose. I think the article said that about 1000 Anglicans joined the ordinariate in England. If married clergy became the norm, they might get what, 5000 maybe? I'm sure it would not be in the millions regardless.
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« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2012, 11:33:39 PM »

Quote
Over two years ago, Benedict XVI issued the Apostolic Exhortation "Anglicanorum Coetibus", which allows groups of Anglicans to convert to the Catholic Church collectively while maintaining their Anglican identity. Bishop Keith Newton's shares his thoughts.

In the Ordinariate, it will be impossible to ordain married men as priests...

That's not quite true. There is within the Apostolic Constitution a wonderful passage which says that 'the ordinary may petition a derogation' to ordain a person who is married but has never been an Anglican priest, according to the particular criteria that have been agreed with the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. We haven't done that yet, but there is a possibility. It won't be used very often but there is a possibility that it can happen. There is one person who was never ordained but who was in an Anglican theological college: I think he's got a good basis for petitioning for ordination, as he was going to college and preparing for ordination before the Apostolic Constitution came out.

And what about ten years from now? Will it happen in the future?

The norm will continue to be that the role of a priest is carried out by celibate men. But there's a possibility things could change even if we don't know what the criteria might be. These will need to be worked out with the Congregation.

The Anglican Church has had married priests for centuries. Does this mean that part of the Anglican tradition might be lost in the Ordinariate?

That is certainly true. Who knows how this will be received later on in the Church, we leave it to the Holy Spirit. I don't think it's for us to argue for married clergy. There are married clergy already in the Catholic Church – not Anglicans, I mean Eastern Rite married clergy. So it's a matter of discipline and not of doctrine. Having said that, celibacy is an important gift for the Church and I wouldn't want to deny it anyway. But equally, I obviously know it's possible to be married and a priest.
Told you so.
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« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2012, 09:29:36 PM »

Told you so.

Oh, you told us a lot more than just So.
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« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2012, 10:15:27 AM »

On another recent thread, we got to talking about "cradle ECs" vs. those who switch from LC to EC. For example

In America at least, there are very few if any "pure" Greek Catholic families.  Almost all Greek Catholics here have a mixed background, so much so that when they grow up and move away they attend Roman Catholic parish because it is just not a big deal.  One of our priests estimates that possibly 80% of those who are canonically Greek Catholic attend Roman parishes.  So whether one is a mixed background "cradle" or a mixed bbackground "jumper" the opinions and attitudes are very much shared.  In fact the "jumpers" are often more authentically Eastern becasue they made the choice to be Greek Catholic whereas many "cradles" simple go to the closest parish which is usually Roman.

and

Here's something else I was reading recently:

Quote from: Anthony T. Dragani
Archbishop Joseph Tawil, a revered leader of the Byzantine Melkite Catholic Church, cautioned against an emphasis on ethnicity. Much like the late Metropolitan Judson Procyk, Archbishop Tawil envisioned an Eastern Catholic Church open to all Americans. He eloquently spoke of this in a famous Christmas pastoral letter:

One day all of our ethnic traits " language, folklore, customs " will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we cannot think of our communities as ethnic parishes, primarily for the service of the immigrant or ethnically oriented, unless we wish to assure the death of our community. Our Churches are not only for our own people but are also for any of our fellow Americans who are attracted to our traditions which show forth the beauty of the universal Church and the variety of its riches.[8]

Archbishop Joseph warns of the danger of our Church vanishing in North America. Research indicates that this is a very real possibility. The best evidence clearly suggests that parishes that neglect evangelization tend to stagnate or decline in America.[9] Studies show that the typical congregation will lose 6% to 10% of its membership annually.[10] This loss is attributed to parishioners dying, relocating, and dropping out. For a parish to thrive, it must annually replace these lost members " or face eventual extinction.

There is a prevalent false assumption in how these lost members are to be replaced. Most Byzantine Catholic parishes wrongly assume that the children will take their place. The sad truth is that most of the children raised in our parishes will not be there as adults. In our transient society, most of these children will either move away or join other Churches. Very often less than 10% of the children found in a parish will remain there in adulthood.[11]

http://www.east2west.org/evangelization.htm

This got me to thinking, what does this mean for the Ordinariates? (Does canon law even allow someone who is already Catholic to join an Ordinariate?)
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« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2012, 10:22:04 AM »


This got me to thinking, what does this mean for the Ordinariates? (Does canon law even allow someone who is already Catholic to join an Ordinariate?)
Probable answer: No. If the answer were "yes", that would cause too many problems, don't you think?
« Last Edit: March 13, 2012, 10:22:45 AM by Jetavan » Logged

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Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
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"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
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« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2012, 11:24:42 AM »


This got me to thinking, what does this mean for the Ordinariates? (Does canon law even allow someone who is already Catholic to join an Ordinariate?)
Probable answer: No. If the answer were "yes", that would cause too many problems, don't you think?

I also think the answer is no. But a further question is, what does this mean for the Ordinariates? Consider the earlier estimate that "possibly 80% of those who are canonically Greek Catholic attend Roman parishes". If that also holds true for the Ordinariates (although of course we won't know for at least one generation), and if Catholics can't "switch" to the Ordinariate, then ...  Sad
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