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Author Topic: Orthodox Believers Stand Up For Jailed Anti-Putin Punk Rockers / Members Of Female Punk Band PUSSY RIOT On Trial For Church Protest / Aleksandr Dugin on "Pussy Riots" global blackmail  (Read 18228 times) Average Rating: 0
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Marcin
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« Reply #450 on: August 23, 2012, 02:41:26 AM »

I agree that homosexuality is a sin, however, so is gluttony (a deadly sin to boot). Would you go and shut down every McDonalds in America or Russia because McDonald's celebrates gluttony?

In one short sentence so many subterfuges, that one does not know where to start.
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Marcin
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« Reply #451 on: August 23, 2012, 02:44:39 AM »

the average life expectancy for a man is 64 years (up significantly since the 1990s, when it was in the low 50s for the same reason).

64 years rise from low 50s? It is a HUGE change and millions of lives were saved! What was the reason?
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« Reply #452 on: August 23, 2012, 02:52:29 AM »

64 years rise from low 50s? It is a HUGE change and millions of lives were saved! What was the reason?

Probably economic aid and relief from all us evil westerners.
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Quote
You're really on to something here. Tattoo to keep you from masturbating, chew to keep you from fornicating... it's a whole new world where you outsource your crosses. You're like a Christian entrepreneur or something.
Quote
James, you have problemz.
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« Reply #453 on: August 23, 2012, 03:01:22 AM »

My mistake. It was Michel Houellebecq who supported Pussy Riot, in addition to Zizek.

The issue is where these punks get their ideas, not who supports them.

So which texts of Pussy Riot seem to point to influence by Zizek and Foucault?

Are you questioning the connection? What is your view - where their ideology
comes from?
« Last Edit: August 23, 2012, 03:03:36 AM by Marcin » Logged
Marcin
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« Reply #454 on: August 23, 2012, 03:09:08 AM »

64 years rise from low 50s? It is a HUGE change and millions of lives were saved! What was the reason?

Probably economic aid and relief from all us evil westerners.

Yeah, sure. 1990s collapse was caused by withdrawal of Western help, that kept
Russia running before.  When the help was renewed after 2000s things got much better.
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Green_Umbrella
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« Reply #455 on: August 23, 2012, 11:05:30 AM »

Green-Umbrella, you're quite right, they don't have parades for those things. What's with the obsession over parades, anyway??? You made me smile.Grin

Oh, you are too funny. Your attitude is formed by the homosexual lobbyists throwing money around to politicians. The television sitcom writer and the leftist college proffesor. It is not God, the scripture or the church fathers.

What an age we live in when a so called ¨Christian¨ will not say they oppose a homosexual parade through a city. Yeah well, as you turn your blind eye to the open celebration of this sin young people will be influenced by it. They will go down that road and destroy themselves both spiritualy and physically.

So keep smiling as you serve your master of lies.

Qui tacet consentire     
Letting other people voice their opinions, no matter how wrong, is now unchristian?

Parades are not  voicing an opinion. Parades are promotions and celebrations. The last time I checked Christians were supposed to love your neighbor as yourself or has that been changed for political correctness?

Does it now read love your neighbor up to the point you might offend him and then be quiet? No. To be opposed to the promotion and celebration of sin is very Christian. I see nothing loving or caring in your position. Sure, throw the drunk another bottle. Let him kill himself. We do not want to offend him. That is your attitude.

Who here would imagine such a scene as this...

¨Paul of Tarsus, the homosexuals are having a parade in Corinth.¨

¨Uh, well...we have other problems in Corinth.¨

(chuckles)

 Right. It is too absurd to even imagine. You can bet he would have called that out and made known his opposition.  But he was a Christian in more than name only. He knew what side of the river he was on unlike some people here. 

That is exactly the problem! It is disgusting when people promote homosexual relations. Homosexual relations are a sin, and should never be promoted or celebrated.

Thank you.

I oppose the celebration and promotion of homosexuality. So I am opposed to gay pride parades. Not the homosexual. I see nothing unchristian in my position. I do see something unchristian with acting like there is nothing wrong with them. There is.
I agree that homosexuality is a sin, however, so is gluttony (a deadly sin to boot). Would you go and shut down every McDonalds in America or Russia because McDonald's celebrates gluttony?

Never found the verse that said God considers gluttony an abomination.  Also, I do not see fat people on parade trying to get people to embrace their lifestyle.  Most fat people (and I am one of them) do not consider their state "normal".  Your comparison is ignorant.  Most people who resort to this are disingenuous, knowing well they have lost the argument yet still trying to defend the evil.
Maybe I'm just secure enough in my faith to let others voice their disbelief publicly. If you think that makes me less Orthodox than you then so be it.

If you will not say you are opposed to homosexual pride parades through main streets, yeah I say you are less Christian. Absolutely. If you do not like the teachings and values of Christianity then perhaps you should leave it.

2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires,
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Green_Umbrella
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« Reply #456 on: August 23, 2012, 11:07:56 AM »

Green-Umbrella, you're quite right, they don't have parades for those things. What's with the obsession over parades, anyway??? You made me smile.Grin

Oh, you are too funny. Your attitude is formed by the homosexual lobbyists throwing money around to politicians. The television sitcom writer and the leftist college proffesor. It is not God, the scripture or the church fathers.

What an age we live in when a so called ¨Christian¨ will not say they oppose a homosexual parade through a city. Yeah well, as you turn your blind eye to the open celebration of this sin young people will be influenced by it. They will go down that road and destroy themselves both spiritualy and physically.

So keep smiling as you serve your master of lies.

Qui tacet consentire     
Letting other people voice their opinions, no matter how wrong, is now unchristian?

Parades are not  voicing an opinion. Parades are promotions and celebrations. The last time I checked Christians were supposed to love your neighbor as yourself or has that been changed for political correctness?

Does it now read love your neighbor up to the point you might offend him and then be quiet? No. To be opposed to the promotion and celebration of sin is very Christian. I see nothing loving or caring in your position. Sure, throw the drunk another bottle. Let him kill himself. We do not want to offend him. That is your attitude.

Who here would imagine such a scene as this...

¨Paul of Tarsus, the homosexuals are having a parade in Corinth.¨

¨Uh, well...we have other problems in Corinth.¨

(chuckles)

 Right. It is too absurd to even imagine. You can bet he would have called that out and made known his opposition.  But he was a Christian in more than name only. He knew what side of the river he was on unlike some people here. 

That is exactly the problem! It is disgusting when people promote homosexual relations. Homosexual relations are a sin, and should never be promoted or celebrated.

Thank you.

I oppose the celebration and promotion of homosexuality. So I am opposed to gay pride parades. Not the homosexual. I see nothing unchristian in my position. I do see something unchristian with acting like there is nothing wrong with them. There is.
I agree that homosexuality is a sin, however, so is gluttony (a deadly sin to boot). Would you go and shut down every McDonalds in America or Russia because McDonald's celebrates gluttony?

Never found the verse that said God considers gluttony an abomination.  Also, I do not see fat people on parade trying to get people to embrace their lifestyle.  Most fat people (and I am one of them) do not consider their state "normal".  Your comparison is ignorant.  Most people who resort to this are disingenuous, knowing well they have lost the argument yet still trying to defend the evil.
Maybe I'm just secure enough in my faith to let others voice their disbelief publicly. If you think that makes me less Orthodox than you then so be it.

Would you support a nudist pride parade? A prostitute pride parade? A swinger pride parade? (not the dance kind) A polygamist pride parade?

How about a judgmental pride parade?



Are you judging people for for judging? Sounds like it.
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Gorazd
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« Reply #457 on: August 23, 2012, 11:10:16 AM »

So which texts of Pussy Riot seem to point to influence by Zizek and Foucault?

Are you questioning the connection? What is your view - where their ideology
comes from?
I am not even sure if they have a coherent ideology. They are, first of all, young women who rebel against an authoritarian society.
But then again, you are the one who claimed they were influenced by Zizek and Foucault, so I am interested to hear on what you base that claim.
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Marcin
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« Reply #458 on: August 23, 2012, 12:00:03 PM »

But then again, you are the one who claimed they were influenced by Zizek and Foucault, so I am interested to hear on what you base that claim.

1 By media reports like "Slovenian philosopher Slavoj Zizek, whose works are being read by Samutsevich in jail" (google for it)

2 By comparing their statements/actions with Zizek (and Foucault) doctrine

3 By reading about teaching of their direct guru Plutser-Sarno and their mother group Voina:

Voina: Art Attack

You can find more if you look. But if I were to prepare more solid presentation, I might do it in separate thread. If I find time and energy.

Look, if you can tell a Commie by his words and deeds based on not more extensive evidence, then you can tell Neocommies as well. They want to subvert the Church into Sodoma-Gomorrah cult, and they are at best atheists or at worst Satanists in sheepskin.

I am not even sure if they have a coherent ideology. They are, first of all, young women who rebel against an authoritarian society.

Of course they are not thinkers, they are only fanatical primitive followers and foot-soldiers.

There were plenty of young women (and men) in 1917 "who rebelled against against an authoritarian society" and who were not thinkers. But they had their little booklets with canned ideas and talking points.

Today revolutionaries want to fix the error of their Bolshevik predecessors, in order for the secular utopia to be established they use cultural subversion, not open violence.

« Last Edit: August 23, 2012, 12:06:01 PM by Marcin » Logged
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« Reply #459 on: August 23, 2012, 01:01:46 PM »

Parades are not  voicing an opinion. Parades are promotions and celebrations.

Promoting homosexuality is as possible as promoting left-handedness or promoting curly hair.

Quote
Who here would imagine such a scene as this...

¨Paul of Tarsus, the homosexuals are having a parade in Corinth.¨

¨Uh, well...we have other problems in Corinth.¨

(chuckles)

 Right. It is too absurd to even imagine.

Actually he did that. He did not talk much about pagan culture in his letters. He almost only wrote to Christains and abut Christians.
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« Reply #460 on: August 23, 2012, 01:07:03 PM »

Green-Umbrella, you're quite right, they don't have parades for those things. What's with the obsession over parades, anyway??? You made me smile.Grin

Oh, you are too funny. Your attitude is formed by the homosexual lobbyists throwing money around to politicians. The television sitcom writer and the leftist college proffesor. It is not God, the scripture or the church fathers.

What an age we live in when a so called ¨Christian¨ will not say they oppose a homosexual parade through a city. Yeah well, as you turn your blind eye to the open celebration of this sin young people will be influenced by it. They will go down that road and destroy themselves both spiritualy and physically.

So keep smiling as you serve your master of lies.

Qui tacet consentire     
Letting other people voice their opinions, no matter how wrong, is now unchristian?

Parades are not  voicing an opinion. Parades are promotions and celebrations. The last time I checked Christians were supposed to love your neighbor as yourself or has that been changed for political correctness?

Does it now read love your neighbor up to the point you might offend him and then be quiet? No. To be opposed to the promotion and celebration of sin is very Christian. I see nothing loving or caring in your position. Sure, throw the drunk another bottle. Let him kill himself. We do not want to offend him. That is your attitude.

Who here would imagine such a scene as this...

¨Paul of Tarsus, the homosexuals are having a parade in Corinth.¨

¨Uh, well...we have other problems in Corinth.¨

(chuckles)

 Right. It is too absurd to even imagine. You can bet he would have called that out and made known his opposition.  But he was a Christian in more than name only. He knew what side of the river he was on unlike some people here. 

That is exactly the problem! It is disgusting when people promote homosexual relations. Homosexual relations are a sin, and should never be promoted or celebrated.

Thank you.

I oppose the celebration and promotion of homosexuality. So I am opposed to gay pride parades. Not the homosexual. I see nothing unchristian in my position. I do see something unchristian with acting like there is nothing wrong with them. There is.
I agree that homosexuality is a sin, however, so is gluttony (a deadly sin to boot). Would you go and shut down every McDonalds in America or Russia because McDonald's celebrates gluttony?

Never found the verse that said God considers gluttony an abomination.  Also, I do not see fat people on parade trying to get people to embrace their lifestyle.  Most fat people (and I am one of them) do not consider their state "normal".  Your comparison is ignorant.  Most people who resort to this are disingenuous, knowing well they have lost the argument yet still trying to defend the evil.
Maybe I'm just secure enough in my faith to let others voice their disbelief publicly. If you think that makes me less Orthodox than you then so be it.

Would you support a nudist pride parade? A prostitute pride parade? A swinger pride parade? (not the dance kind) A polygamist pride parade?

How about a judgmental pride parade?



Are you judging people for for judging? Sounds like it.

No.
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HabteSelassie
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« Reply #461 on: August 23, 2012, 03:06:53 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!


If you will not say you are opposed to homosexual pride parades through main streets, yeah I say you are less Christian. Absolutely. If you do not like the teachings and values of Christianity then perhaps you should leave it.

2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires,

Quote
Let no one take notice or even think to mention the sins of their neighbor.  Let each examine themselves.  God is looking
The Ethiopian Anaphora of Our Lord

Simply put, Orthodox as about worrying about your own sins, and praying for the sins of others.  If folks are sinning, they need our love, support, and sincere hand of friendship, not our scathing condemnations.  In other words, all Orthodox should be concerned with in regards to Homosexuality is THEIR OWN SEXUAL SINS, not not to be so concerned with the sins of their neighbors aside from heartfelt prayer for mercy.

"Let him who shows mercy, do so with cheerfulness."  Apostle Paul Romans 12:8

By the way, my "Lame" meme posting was not in regards to the tangent comments about homosexuality, but rather the exaggerated sentence given to these protesters. Luckily, my prediction is this lengthy sentence was political hyperbole in action and was simple pandering and posturing for the cameras with a "tough on the opposition" kind of game face, but more than likely with all the international pressure these women will be shortly released on a commuted terms. Did they break the law? Yes, repeatedly.  Did they disrespect our holy Mother the Church? Yes, indubitably.  Do they deserve harsh treatment and years in jail? Hardly.   Sure, in a different time these women may have been stoned on the spot, but that is hardly the sentiments of our Savior in the Gospel of John chapter 8 Wink

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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Green_Umbrella
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« Reply #462 on: August 23, 2012, 03:19:38 PM »

Parades are not  voicing an opinion. Parades are promotions and celebrations.

Promoting homosexuality is as possible as promoting left-handedness or promoting curly hair.

Quote
Who here would imagine such a scene as this...

¨Paul of Tarsus, the homosexuals are having a parade in Corinth.¨

¨Uh, well...we have other problems in Corinth.¨

(chuckles)

 Right. It is too absurd to even imagine.

Actually he did that. He did not talk much about pagan culture in his letters. He almost only wrote to Christains and abut Christians.

I agree. Homosexuality can be promoted exactly the same as left-handedness and curly hair. I see propaganda for people to have hair perms all the time. And quess what? Many people do it. Suprise suprise no? And as far as your left-handedness rubbish. There was a time when people who were left-handed were ¨corrected¨ in schools to be right handed. And guess what? They became right handed.

So you can take your Pseudo-science somewhere else. And as far as St. Paul and homosexuality, he opposed it. He strongly opposed it. Who he wrote his letters to is a red herring. It does not matter. The only thing important is his position on the issue. He made that very clear to all who do not wish to be self deluded. 
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« Reply #463 on: August 23, 2012, 03:21:19 PM »

So you can take your Pseudo-science somewhere else. And as far as St. Paul and homosexuality, he opposed it. He strongly opposed it. Who he wrote his letters to is a red herring. It does not matter. The only thing important is his position on the issue. He made that very clear to all who do not wish to be self deluded. 

Did he write it for Christians or did he preached on Roman orgies?
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« Reply #464 on: August 23, 2012, 03:46:34 PM »

Did he write it for Christians or did he preached on Roman orgies?

He was writing his epistles to the Christians, but he was preaching to the gentiles and converting them.

Do you think that if Christians roll over and close themselves in the ghetto "the world" will stop to hate them and leave them alone?

If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you.

No man, when he hath lighted a candle, covereth it with a vessel, or putteth it under a bed;
but setteth it on a candlestick, that they which enter in may see the light.
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« Reply #465 on: August 23, 2012, 03:49:22 PM »

Parades are not  voicing an opinion. Parades are promotions and celebrations.

Promoting homosexuality is as possible as promoting left-handedness or promoting curly hair.

Quote
Who here would imagine such a scene as this...

¨Paul of Tarsus, the homosexuals are having a parade in Corinth.¨

¨Uh, well...we have other problems in Corinth.¨

(chuckles)

 Right. It is too absurd to even imagine.

Actually he did that. He did not talk much about pagan culture in his letters. He almost only wrote to Christains and abut Christians.

Hmm, tell that to the ones who want everyone to believe that homosexual relationships are okay.
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« Reply #466 on: August 23, 2012, 03:58:13 PM »

So you can take your Pseudo-science somewhere else. And as far as St. Paul and homosexuality, he opposed it. He strongly opposed it. Who he wrote his letters to is a red herring. It does not matter. The only thing important is his position on the issue. He made that very clear to all who do not wish to be self deluded. 

Did he write it for Christians or did he preached on Roman orgies?

St. Paul wrote his letters for everyone everywhere. He wrote his letters for all peoples of all nations. The entire world. His letters have been distributed to every corner of this globe. Far and wide. Translated in hundreds if not thousands of languages.

Yeah, he wrote his letters for Romans who practiced orgies. That and everyone else. This is the light. This is the way. This is the gospel. Are you ashamed of what St. Paul wrote? Why are you trying to distort the teaching?
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« Reply #467 on: August 23, 2012, 05:44:31 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!



Do you think that if Christians roll over and close themselves in the ghetto "the world" will stop to hate them and leave them alone?


Not at all, quite the opposite, the same Devil which whispers temptations to us to judge our neighbors sins is the same devil which tempts folks into sins of homosexuality or sins of disregarding Our Savior and antagonizing Christianity.  We will always be martyrs, we will always be suffering.  However, this does not somehow give us an excuse towards self-righteousness.  We stand as a light to the world by LOVING the world, not condemning it smugly, spitefully.  There are a lot of caustic, negative, judgmental, and hostile comments coming from Christians not being content enough to condemn the sin, but to woefully disrespect and antagonize the sinner themselves.  Again, we in Orthodox only have the right to be concerned with OUR OWN sins.  So if homosexuality is a sin in the Church, which it is, our business is to be concerned that we ourselves individually do not practice homosexuality.  This does not somehow give us wholesale license to judge other sinners regardless if they are repentant or not.  We need to give LOVE to sinners, not caustic finger pointing.  Mean-spirited judgment will not convert homosexuals to our communities, it will only further push them away.  The Devil thrives on human conflict.

We need to love sinners, and bring them into the spiritual hospital of the Church.  It isn't necessarily about condoning homosexuality.  Lets be honest, homosexuals know and are well aware that the Orthodox and Catholic Church does not support their sexual orientation, so we don't hardly need to continue to beat that dead horse.  Rather, we should be loving towards sin, emphasizing repentance but also from the perspective of brotherly love.  If folks in the world are entangled in mortal sin, this should hurt our hearts towards compassion, not anger us towards hostile judgement of our neighbors.

Again..

Quote
Let no one take notice or even think to mention the sins of their neighbor.  Let each examine themselves.  God is looking
Ethiopian Anaphora of Our Lord Jesus Christ

However, this is all way off topic from the OP, so to bring it back, we all need to extend this Christian compassion not just to unrepentant homosexuals and other sinners, but also these misguided and confused women who have been punished excessively.

Quote
Let brotherly love continue. 2 Do not forget to entertain strangers, for by so doing some have unwittingly entertained angels. 3 Remember the prisoners as if chained with them—those who are mistreated—since you yourselves are in the body also.
Hebrews 13

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #468 on: August 23, 2012, 07:07:38 PM »

Pussy Riot ... consider themselves Orthodox Christians, they just don't recognise the MP's leadership as the only authority to interpret Orthodox tradition.

If so, what is their interpretation of Orthodox tradition?

They are not isolated individuals who develop their own ideas. They are part of a large movement, and years long members of a radical community.

It is not very productive to focus on their personalities at the expense of understanding their worldview. And they with their friends do not hide whose thought inspired them.

One example is Slavoj Zizek  (Zhizhek), another is Michel Foucault. Let me quote from Wikipedia:

Quote
Žižek is an atheist. He has said he does not consider religion an enemy but rather one of the fields of struggle. He has also referred to himself as a "Christian materialist". Žižek believes the universalist aspect of Christianity should be secularized into militant egalitarianism, against the "pagan notion of destiny". This universalism he derives from what he perceives as the alleged Christian death of God: God died on the cross and lives on as the "Holy Spirit", that is, in human community. ... He has written many pieces on the reinterpretation of the religious and the theological such as The Puppet and the Dwarf, On Belief and The Fragile Absolute.



Foucault and Zizek are great reads, so good for them if they are informed by their thought (although to reconcile the two would be nearly impossible).

Most people just know the names or read about them, to such a group you surely belong.
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« Reply #469 on: August 23, 2012, 11:42:21 PM »

Lest anyone think this is a women's rights issue. The judge was a woman...
http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=news&div=9775
"Russian judge Marina Syrova... Judge Syrova called their behavior "blasphemous" and described it as a "gross violation of public order showing obvious disrespect for society." She also said, "The girls' actions were sacrilegious, blasphemous and broke the church's rules.""
« Last Edit: August 23, 2012, 11:45:06 PM by 88Devin12 » Logged
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« Reply #470 on: August 24, 2012, 01:38:35 AM »

Foucault and Zizek are great reads, so good for them if they are informed by their thought (although to reconcile the two would be nearly impossible).

Voltaire and Nietzsche are much "greater reads", yet they were not always good for those who were informed by them or for those around.

Quote
Most people just know the names or read about them, to such a group you surely belong.

You got me! I only read about Foucault and Zizek (plus quoted fragments and interviews). If I am going to read them it will not be for the sake of great reads, but for the same reason why I read Ayn Rand (to know what makes some tick).

Do you agree with the views of Zizek or Foucault?


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« Reply #471 on: August 24, 2012, 01:42:32 AM »

Lest anyone think this is a women's rights issue. The judge was a woman...

Also it was the women who were first to try to stop them but an older woman is not a match for a young assertive street artist.
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« Reply #472 on: August 24, 2012, 07:01:31 AM »

The Guardian disagrees:
The west's hypocrisy over Pussy Riot is breathtaking
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/aug/21/west-hypocrisy-pussy-riot?newsfeed=true

Oy. Sad day when I have to respond to something from the Guardian. I fail to see your point or, frankly, that of the author. The West has many, many problems. Including increasingly incarceration for thought-crimes. I think it is a vile and disturbing trend. There are many who also feel this way, and speak out against it. How is this hypocrisy? Because we have problems we shouldn't have opinions on what goes on elsewhere? Have you been to Russia? Have you seen the blatant materialism and hedonism among the younger set? Oh right--that's all the West's fault. I guess the crass consumerism increasingly exhibited in China is also the West's fault. This is a human condition, a failing, not a geographic location.

The point is that the west is eager to look at the splinter in the eye of its brother. I thought it was quite clear, myself
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« Reply #473 on: August 24, 2012, 12:25:36 PM »

Now they tried a new stunt in Cologne Cathedral (German Catholic). Little milder but German law provides 3 years of prison for disrupting freedom of religious service.
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« Reply #474 on: August 24, 2012, 02:40:05 PM »

She also said, "The girls' actions were sacrilegious, blasphemous and broke the church's rules.""

Since when these are crimes?

Now they tried a new stunt in Cologne Cathedral (German Catholic). Little milder but German law provides 3 years of prison for disrupting freedom of religious service.

AFAIK there were no services then.
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« Reply #475 on: August 24, 2012, 02:54:52 PM »

Since when these are crimes?

The court decides whether crime was committed.

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AFAIK there were no services then. [in Cologne Cathedral]

Again, the court will decide whether crime was committed.
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« Reply #476 on: August 24, 2012, 04:19:57 PM »

She also said, "The girls' actions were sacrilegious, blasphemous and broke the church's rules.""

Since when these are crimes?

Now they tried a new stunt in Cologne Cathedral (German Catholic). Little milder but German law provides 3 years of prison for disrupting freedom of religious service.

AFAIK there were no services then.

It is against the law in Russia.

http://mercouris.wordpress.com/2012/08/07/pussy-riot-2/

Quote
The women are charged for the offence of hooliganism under Article 213 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation.  This reads as follows:

“Hooliganism

 1. Hooliganism, that is a gross violation of the public order manifested in patent contempt of society and attended by the use of weapons or articles used as weapons shall be punishable by compulsory works for a term of 180 to 240 hours, or by corrective labour for a term of one to two years, or by deprivation of liberty for a term of up to five years.

2. The same deed committed by a group of persons in a preliminary conspiracy, or by an organised group, or connected with resistance to a representative of authority to any other person who fulfils the duty of protecting the public order or who suppresses the violation of the public order shall be punishable by deprivation of liberty for a term of up to seven years”.

(Translation Legislationline) (Italics added)

Quote
the offence in this case is aggravated under Article 3 paragraph 6 of the Law on Freedom of Conscience, Religion and Religious Association of the Russian Federation, which prohibits actions that are insulting to the religious feelings of believers especially when these take place “immediately adjacent to objects of religious veneration”.  The relevant sections read as follows:

“Actions hindering the realisation of the right to freedom of conscience and freedom of creed, including actions entailing coercion of an individual, calculated insults of the feelings of citizens in connection with their attitudes toward religion, the destruction of property, and threats of such actions, are forbidden and are to be prosecuted by law.  The conducting of public activities and distribution of texts and images insulting the religious feelings of citizens immediately adjacent to objects of religious veneration is forbidden.”

Quote
Article 3 paragraph 6 of the Law on Freedom of Conscience, Religion and Religious Association of the Russian Federation is provided under Article 26

“Violation of the law of the Russian Federation on freedom of conscience and on  religious associations involves criminal, administrative and other liability in accordance with the laws of the Russian Federation”.

(All translations by Kenston Institute) (Italics added)

(Those quotations are from the above blog/article.



Just to relate it to you, Poland also has a similar law:

Quote
"Whoever offends religious feelings of other people by publicly insulting an object of religious cult or a place for public holding of religious ceremonies, is subject to a fine, restriction of liberty or loss of liberty for up to 2 years". - Article 196
« Last Edit: August 24, 2012, 04:24:39 PM by 88Devin12 » Logged
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« Reply #477 on: August 24, 2012, 04:52:32 PM »


Just to relate it to you, Poland also has a similar law:

Quote
"Whoever offends religious feelings of other people by publicly insulting an object of religious cult or a place for public holding of religious ceremonies, is subject to a fine, restriction of liberty or loss of liberty for up to 2 years". - Article 196

Also another Article 195 provides 2 years of prison for  ill-disposed disruption of a public religious activity of a church or of other confessional community. (It would include for a example a disruption of a church procession on public road)

In March 2012 the anticlerical and secularist party of a rich scandalizing businessman Palikot (Ruch Palikota) tried to remove or modify Article 196.  This proposal was rejected by all other parties by the overwhelming majority (386 against 66).
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« Reply #478 on: August 24, 2012, 11:15:37 PM »

Abbot Tryphon has released another episode of his podcast and its further reflections on the controversy. He offers some very wise words and offers a wonderful quote by St. Nikolai Velimirovic.

http://ancientfaith.com/podcasts/morningoffering/pussy_riot_revisited
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« Reply #479 on: August 24, 2012, 11:48:49 PM »

She also said, "The girls' actions were sacrilegious, blasphemous and broke the church's rules.""

Since when these are crimes?


When degenerates go into a church and physically disrupt and make offensive religious displays to a religious body they deny those people the freedom to practice their religion. Denying people the freedom to practice their religion is a crime. A serious crime.

The Catholic Church is pressing legal charges to the clowns in Cologne and good for them too. Religious freedom must be defended and maintained. 
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« Reply #480 on: August 25, 2012, 12:46:43 AM »

She also said, "The girls' actions were sacrilegious, blasphemous and broke the church's rules.""

Since when these are crimes?


When degenerates go into a church and physically disrupt and make offensive religious displays to a religious body they deny those people the freedom to practice their religion. Denying people the freedom to practice their religion is a crime. A serious crime.

The Catholic Church is pressing legal charges to the clowns in Cologne and good for them too. Religious freedom must be defended and maintained. 

RussiaToday has been reporting that the group in Koln may face up to 3 years under German law.
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« Reply #481 on: August 25, 2012, 04:37:30 AM »

RussiaToday has been reporting that the group in Koln may face up to 3 years under German law.
That's not correct. 3 years can be only for disrupting an actual religious service going on. If the group in Cologne (that's the English name of Köln, btw) gets anything at all, it would probably be a fine or some hours of social work.
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« Reply #482 on: August 25, 2012, 05:23:34 AM »

RussiaToday has been reporting that the group in Koln may face up to 3 years under German law.
That's not correct. 3 years can be only for disrupting an actual religious service going on. If the group in Cologne (that's the English name of Köln, btw) gets anything at all, it would probably be a fine or some hours of social work.

I hope that the court will pass the correct judgment and they will be punished. The harassment of Christians should not be encouraged, there is enough of that going in the large part of the world.

BTW, when church is open and people pray there it is a religious service. Other times the church should be closed so punks and haters do not prowl there. And people were praying as one can see/hear in this clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5jqLym56Yc

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« Reply #483 on: August 25, 2012, 10:00:04 AM »

RussiaToday has been reporting that the group in Koln may face up to 3 years under German law.
That's not correct. 3 years can be only for disrupting an actual religious service going on. If the group in Cologne (that's the English name of Köln, btw) gets anything at all, it would probably be a fine or some hours of social work.

Actually it is correct because Mass was going on there.

(and I prefer to call it Koln)
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« Reply #484 on: August 25, 2012, 01:45:24 PM »

I hope that the court will pass the correct judgment and they will be punished.
As for myself, I do not hope for any punishments, but always for repentance.

BTW, when church is open and people pray there it is a religious service.
If the Church is just open for individual prayer, it is not considered a service under German law. If there is an actual service (mass, evening prayers etc.) and one would disturb that going on, there could be a severe sentence.

If the Church is just open for everyone to pray, then basically a punk prayer is possible, too. Except if the owner of the building (btw, that is not the RCC but the dome construction association) tells you your behaviour is inapropriate. If you insist on continuing after asked to leave, then there can be a crime under German law.

Actually it is correct because Mass was going on there.
German media reports I read suggested otherwise, but we will see...

(and I prefer to call it Koln)
It is Köln with an umlaut. In case you do not have an umlaut, ö is replaced by oe. So you should write Koeln, but certainly not Koln, because that is just plain wrong.
And anyway, the forum rules impose the use of the English language here.
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« Reply #485 on: August 25, 2012, 01:51:07 PM »

As for myself, I do not hope for any punishments, but always for repentance.

True repentance might include acceptance of punishment. At least the good thief thought so. These women are extremely smug and unrepentant.


Quote
German media reports I read suggested otherwise, but we will see...

You did not see it on the video clip I provided?!
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« Reply #486 on: August 25, 2012, 02:17:14 PM »

I hope that the court will pass the correct judgment and they will be punished.
As for myself, I do not hope for any punishments, but always for repentance.

BTW, when church is open and people pray there it is a religious service.
If the Church is just open for individual prayer, it is not considered a service under German law. If there is an actual service (mass, evening prayers etc.) and one would disturb that going on, there could be a severe sentence.

If the Church is just open for everyone to pray, then basically a punk prayer is possible, too. Except if the owner of the building (btw, that is not the RCC but the dome construction association) tells you your behaviour is inapropriate. If you insist on continuing after asked to leave, then there can be a crime under German law.

Actually it is correct because Mass was going on there.
German media reports I read suggested otherwise, but we will see...

(and I prefer to call it Koln)
It is Köln with an umlaut. In case you do not have an umlaut, ö is replaced by oe. So you should write Koeln, but certainly not Koln, because that is just plain wrong.
And anyway, the forum rules impose the use of the English language here.

Its the name of a place, I'm not speaking a foreign language. Don't be legalistic and only read the letter of the law, instead focus on the intent. It is to prevent people from writing in a foreign language outside of the language section and without providing a translation.

Its no different than if I were to refer to Venice as Venezia or Florence as Firenze. Heck, if we went that far with it, we would be saying River of January rather than Rio de Janeiro.

Also:

Pussy Riot 2.0: German Catholic Church presses charge copycats
http://rt.com/news/pussy-riot-cologne-cathedral-463/

Quote
Three years in prison have become a closer prospect for some German followers of Russian punk band Pussy Riot. The Catholic Church has pressed charges against Cologne Cathedral intruders, who now face longer prison terms than their heroes.
The three protesters have been charged with disturbing a religious service which, according to German law, could mean up to three years in jail.
"The right to demonstration cannot be set above the right to religious freedom and the religious feelings of the congregation,” Cologne Cathedral’s dean told the Frankfurter Rundschau newspaper.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2012, 02:20:27 PM by 88Devin12 » Logged
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« Reply #487 on: August 25, 2012, 02:24:10 PM »

As for myself, I do not hope for any punishments, but always for repentance.

True repentance might include acceptance of punishment. At least the good thief thought so. These women are extremely smug and unrepentant.


Quote
German media reports I read suggested otherwise, but we will see...

You did not see it on the video clip I provided?!

It would not bother him/her if they had ran up to a Priest, grabbed the wine and drank it. Then threw the sacramental bread on the floor and tore down the cross and urinated on it. This type of person will grab anything to excuse the behavior from these ¨things¨

They are not interested in repentance or the Church except to destroy it. The Church is something to be despised and mocked to them. Wake up and smell the evil. They know exactly what they were doing even if some people do not. Let them do a year in prison. They are young and fit. It just might do them some good.      
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« Reply #488 on: August 26, 2012, 02:13:55 PM »

The Church is something to be despised and mocked to them. Wake up and smell the evil. They know exactly what they were doing even if some people do not. Let them do a year in prison. They are young and fit. It just might do them some good.      
I agree.
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« Reply #489 on: August 28, 2012, 12:29:08 AM »

Since when these are crimes?

The court decides whether crime was committed.

Quote
AFAIK there were no services then. [in Cologne Cathedral]

Again, the court will decide whether crime was committed.

Exactly! I don't know why some are excusing these Russians, but having no problems with Germany's laws
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« Reply #490 on: August 28, 2012, 12:31:14 AM »


Just to relate it to you, Poland also has a similar law:

Quote
"Whoever offends religious feelings of other people by publicly insulting an object of religious cult or a place for public holding of religious ceremonies, is subject to a fine, restriction of liberty or loss of liberty for up to 2 years". - Article 196
[/quote]That's what I don't get about this.

In effect it's going "If the Russians authorities do it, we'll criticise them BUT if other countries do it we'll ignore it, or excuse it"
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« Reply #491 on: August 28, 2012, 08:56:39 AM »

Since when these are crimes?

The court decides whether crime was committed.

Quote
AFAIK there were no services then. [in Cologne Cathedral]

Again, the court will decide whether crime was committed.

Exactly! I don't know why some are excusing these Russians, but having no problems with Germany's laws

A country that is trying to go back to its Christian roots and one that is led by a leader who actually espouses Christian values is quite offensive to the children of the Antichrist.  Consequently, anything done by such a country is offensive to them, yet the same thing (or worse) done by a virtually pagan country is quite alright.  Let's face it, if performing a vulgar "punk play" in front of the altar and cutting down crosses does not offend one to the point of righteous anger, they are so morally vacant that they have already fallen for what the scriptures say will happen in the last days: what is wrong will become right, and what is right will become wrong.
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« Reply #492 on: August 30, 2012, 01:42:40 PM »

I am not a supporter of Putin, but I do admit that Pussy Riot has done the wrong thing. They need to be denied communion and/or given community service and penance to perform, because such a punishment would be more constructive. Doing penance and social work would help them realise their errors and truly repent.
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« Reply #493 on: August 30, 2012, 02:52:51 PM »

I am not a supporter of Putin, but I do admit that Pussy Riot has done the wrong thing. They need to be denied communion and/or given community service and penance to perform, because such a punishment would be more constructive. Doing penance and social work would help them realise their errors and truly repent.

From what they've done and everything, I don't think they are Orthodox Christians.
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« Reply #494 on: August 30, 2012, 02:57:34 PM »

I am not a supporter of Putin, but I do admit that Pussy Riot has done the wrong thing. They need to be denied communion and/or given community service and penance to perform, because such a punishment would be more constructive. Doing penance and social work would help them realise their errors and truly repent.

From what they've done and everything, I don't think they are Orthodox Christians.

I think impersonating a bishop is a pretty serious breach of the canons. 
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