Orthodox Believers Stand Up For Jailed Anti-Putin Punk Rockers / Members Of Female Punk Band PUSSY RIOT On Trial For Church Protest / Aleksandr Dugin on "Pussy Riots" global blackmail

[Vladik]

Pskov. Russia. An ancient Cathedral

[Vladik]

Kiev. Ukraine.



Feminists sawn the "cross of orange revolution" off.

[Kerdy]

Kiev. Ukraine.



Feminists sawn the "cross of orange revolution" off.

Because everyone know running around topless defacing or destroying property belonging to others is an action of peace, understanding and unity.  I mean, where is everyone's tolerance?

The band members were found guilty, rightfully so, and will be sentenced Friday.  Let's see what they are awarded.

[Pan Michał]

One thing I don't understand. Where is corelation between fighting with "the system" and running with your naked t*ts through the streets. How do you do that one.

[Kerdy]

One thing I don't understand. Where is corelation between fighting with "the system" and running with your naked t*ts through the streets. How do you do that one.

There is none.  Protesters today go for shock value, not the message.  They have lost their way.  Can you imagine the results of the American civil rights movement had they used these tactics?  It would not have been very successful.  Protesters have not only lost their way, but their minds as well.  Many of them don't even really care about the message, they just want to protest.  For proof, look at the "occupy" movement which failed in the US.  Total chaos and most had no clue what it was really about.  People have reduced themselves to a pathetic version of humanity and it seems there is no end in sight.  They want to be angry, so they find a reason and act foolishly.

[Pan Michał]

Can you imagine the results of the American civil rights movement had they used these tactics?

I would not bow down before any point of their petition, just to see more breasts, free of charge.

Yes, it is wrong. Then again, they've started it.

[Pilgrim72]

Hello, this is my first post--probably should pick a less controversial topic to interject myself into, but not my style. I followed this conversation with interest as a lurker. Apparently the "sentence" has just been handed down--NYT reporting 2 years in prison.

Is what they did disrespectful? Certainly. Is taking a mother away from her child for two years for what was a *political* and not religious  protest just? No way. The behavior of the sycophantic MP in this matter is disheartening. Anyone who thinks this is about anything else than Putin flexing his muscle is sorely mistaken or else has not spent time living in Russia.

[Pan Michał]

Is taking a mother away from her child for two years for what was a *political* and not religious  protest just?

Is a mother fighting the system without any hesitation and thinking about the fate of her child a mother? Just sayin'.

Anyone who thinks this is about anything else than Putin flexing his muscle is sorely mistaken or else has not spent time living in Russia.

Have you lived in Russia?

[sheenj]

Is taking a mother away from her child for two years for what was a *political* and not religious  protest just?

Is a mother fighting the system without any hesitation and thinking about the fate of her child a mother? Just sayin'.

If you think 2 years in Prison for what amounts to trespassing is just, I hope you pay careful attention to the "Stay of the Grass" signs.

[Pan Michał]

If you think 2 years in Prison for what amounts to trespassing is just, I hope you pay careful attention to the "Stay of the Grass" signs.

Instead of speculating what I think (and what you've wrote in terms of my thoughts is obviously wrong), you'd try to answer the question.

[Kerdy]

Is taking a mother away from her child for two years for what was a *political* and not religious  protest just?

Is a mother fighting the system without any hesitation and thinking about the fate of her child a mother? Just sayin'.

If you think 2 years in Prison for what amounts to trespassing is just, I hope you pay careful attention to the "Stay of the Grass" signs.

Please forgive me, but I am confused.  On this thread people were complaining about seven years and now they received less than one third of that, you are still complaining?  I don't get it, but I suspect if they received time served, some would still say it was too severe.  Maybe this will sink into the minds of protesters.  Don't violate the sanctity of the Church.

[sheenj]

If you think 2 years in Prison for what amounts to trespassing is just, I hope you pay careful attention to the "Stay of the Grass" signs.

Instead of speculating what I think (and what you've wrote in terms of my thoughts is obviously wrong), you'd try to answer the question.

My bad, I misunderstood your post  .

However, the point still stands.

[Pilgrim72]

@ Pan Michal,

I respect a mother who stands up to an oppressive system. Was this the best way to do it? Of course not. No argument there. But to pretend the Russian government is so concerned about the sensibilities of believers is ridiculous. And yes, I've lived in Russia. And Poland. And no, I'm not a convert.  

[jewish voice]

A court in Moscow has found three members of Pussy Riot, a Russian feminist punk band, guilty of hooliganism motivated by religious hatred, and sentenced them to two years in prison.http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2012/08/2012817111157592391.html

Ps and some here think Islam is a backwards Religion so much for your finger pointing 

[Kerdy]

A court in Moscow has found three members of Pussy Riot, a Russian feminist punk band, guilty of hooliganism motivated by religious hatred, and sentenced them to two years in prison.http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2012/08/2012817111157592391.html

Ps and some here think Islam is a backwards Religion so much for your finger pointing  

If it was motivated as you say, that makes it a hate crime, which in America brings more severe punishment.

Also, there are so many other, more accurate, things to call Islam, backwards isn't one I have ever used.

[sheenj]

Is taking a mother away from her child for two years for what was a *political* and not religious  protest just?

Is a mother fighting the system without any hesitation and thinking about the fate of her child a mother? Just sayin'.

If you think 2 years in Prison for what amounts to trespassing is just, I hope you pay careful attention to the "Stay of the Grass" signs.

Please forgive me, but I am confused.  On this thread people were complaining about seven years and now they received less than one third of that, you are still complaining?  I don't get it, but I suspect if they received time served, some would still say it was too severe.  Maybe this will sink into the minds of protesters.  Don't violate the sanctity of the Church.

It's not that they don't deserve punishment, it's that the severity of the punishment should fit the crime. Multiple years in prison for trespassing is cruel and unusual punishment. I'd say make them serve 30-90 days in jail tops and put them on probation for a year after. That should have been the max, not 7 years in prison.

[sheenj]

A court in Moscow has found three members of Pussy Riot, a Russian feminist punk band, guilty of hooliganism motivated by religious hatred, and sentenced them to two years in prison.http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2012/08/2012817111157592391.html

Ps and some here think Islam is a backwards Religion so much for your finger pointing 

If only Russia cracked down on hooligans in their soccer stadiums in this manner 

[Bigsinner]

Two years in prison for non-violent disturbing the peace?!  Although I do not approve of their actions, this punishment does not fit the crime.  Thank goodness they didn't jay-walk on the way to their protest, or they might have gotten life.  On the other hand, if there were not so much international attention to this matter, I am certain they would have been punished even more harshly.

[Bigsinner]

Is taking a mother away from her child for two years for what was a *political* and not religious  protest just?

Is a mother fighting the system without any hesitation and thinking about the fate of her child a mother? Just sayin'.

If you think 2 years in Prison for what amounts to trespassing is just, I hope you pay careful attention to the "Stay of the Grass" signs.

Please forgive me, but I am confused.  On this thread people were complaining about seven years and now they received less than one third of that, you are still complaining?  I don't get it, but I suspect if they received time served, some would still say it was too severe.  Maybe this will sink into the minds of protesters.  Don't violate the sanctity of the Church.

It's not that they don't deserve punishment, it's that the severity of the punishment should fit the crime. Multiple years in prison for trespassing is cruel and unusual punishment. I'd say make them serve 30-90 days in jail tops and put them on probation for a year after. That should have been the max, not 7 years in prison.

I agree.  I would say time served plus probation.  Perhaps community service at a Church sponsored charity.

[Pan Michał]

My bad, I misunderstood your post  .

However, the point still stands.

That's ok, what I am trying to say, is that it's the case of nervous society vs reckless mothers. I pity the children.

I respect a mother who stands up to an oppressive system.

Me too. I just don't have the same deal of "respect" to mother who does not think of the obvious consequences. She has a child to raise, without her it will be robbed of life.

Was this the best way to do it? Of course not. No argument there.

I agree, too.

But to pretend the Russian government is so concerned about the sensibilities of believers is ridiculous. And yes, I've lived in Russia. And Poland. And no, I'm not a convert.  

We both know, how things go in Russia. Then again, it was an intervention because of the demand of the society. If Putin did it because he was afraid of sensibilities of his citizens? No idea, I wouldn't be surprised if he was, I wouldn't be surprised if he took it as a good "casus belli", too. All in all, my private thought is what I've wrote to sheenj, way too much from both sides, no matter just or unjust causes.


Btw., I have no bad emotions towards converts, first Christians were them .

[Pilgrim72]

If only Russia cracked down on hooligans in their soccer stadiums in this manner  

Or, you know, people who kill journalists or oppositionists

Tags editted - MK.

[jewish voice]

The head of the church, Patriarch Kirill, has made no secret of his strong support for Putin, even praising his presidential terms as "God's miracle" and has described the performance as part of an assault by "enemy forces" on the church.

Patriarch Kirill avoided talking to the media as he was leaving Warsaw's Royal Castle following a ceremony in which he and the head of Poland's Catholic Church called for mutual forgiveness and reconciliation. Microphones were set up for statements in the castle yard and reporters were brought to the site, but Kirill went straight to his car http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/17/pussy-riot-trial-guilty_n_1795570.html

I think this guy is a joke he's just after money and power from his buddy Putin and no way can you tell me different

- post modified to reflect correct titles. S1389

[Pan Michał]

Patriarch Kirill avoided talking to the media as he was leaving Warsaw's Royal Castle following a ceremony in which he and the head of Poland's Catholic Church called for mutual forgiveness and reconciliation. Microphones were set up for statements in the castle yard and reporters were brought to the site, but Kirill went straight to his car http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/17/pussy-riot-trial-guilty_n_1795570.html

Oh the desinformation . Being in the zone from the beginning I will say that it is not the "fault" of Kirill I, but our gouvernement at best, which did not prepare the road of pilgrimage with time travel correctly until today. Yesterday at Maria Magdalena Church there were not so many people inside, because, as a man from the Ecumenist Society told me, someone told that only people with a pass card will be able to attend the Holy Liturgy. No one from our gouvernement did any official statement about it being false. And so forth, and so forth.

There was a press conference, btw.

[Kerdy]

They are vulgar and disrespectful.  They wanted fame and now have it.  I hope they enjoy the rewards of their actions.  After looking at the video again, it also appears they resisted law enforcement officers, multiple times.  I think two years is fitting, considering what could have happened to them.  By the time they get out, their 15 minutes of fame will have faded and perhaps they will choose to be mothers rather than activists.  Or, if they remain activists, they will do it properly.  I imagine, had they at least pretended to show remorse, it would have been even more forgiving.

[Michał Kalina]

On this thread people were complaining about seven years and now they received less than one third of that, you are still complaining?  I don't get it

You don't get loads of things.

You wouldn't endure a month in Russian prison.

[Pan Michał]

You don't get loads of things.

You wouldn't endure a month in Russian prison.

Hate to be anti-Solzhenitsyn, but loads of people endure Russian prison nowadays, that's not the case. Although I think I get your point, Eastern European prisons are nothing like US prison hotels/cells.

Then again, I've never been in either of them.

[88Devin12]

Good on the authorities for sentencing them to two years, they definitely deserve it.

[Michał Kalina]

Good on the authorities for sentencing them to two years, they definitely deserve it.

Another one American that understands nothing.

[88Devin12]

Problem? They need to be jailing more than just this sick group, they ought to be jailing the leaders of the LGBT groups as well as the leaders of atheist movements.

They don't have our constitution and we should not expect them to uphold it's values. In fact, I think they are better off not doing so.

[Pilgrim72]

Problem? They need to be jailing more than just this sick group, they ought to be jailing the leaders of the LGBT groups as well as the
They don't have our constitution and we should expect them to uphold it's values. In fact, I think they are better off not doing so.

I'd settle for them just trying to uphold their own Constitution... Have you read it?

[finbar]

I've looked at the videos of the women sneering and sniggering as the judgement was read out, they don't look penitent or repentant. In fact there is something dead about their eyes and the anger and malevolence is pretty near to the surface. They've done 7 months already, with good behaviour they'll be out in 6 months and they can return to their richly deserved obscurity, they're music is so shite that they won't, even with studio assistance, be able to make a decent sound. They also have form, they are closely associated with a "protest" in a public museum which involved live sex acts and also another "protest" which involved videoing a woman stealing chicken from a super market and secreting it in the aisle of the mart in her private parts, this may be an explanation for the reference to their association with porno hooligans in the judgement. Taking a look at these sick puppies I would be surprised if they aren't all tormented by a host of demonic elements who happily inhabit their dead and lifeless brains.

[Kerdy]

On this thread people were complaining about seven years and now they received less than one third of that, you are still complaining?  I don't get it

You don't get loads of things.

You wouldn't endure a month in Russian prison.

Neither would you, but I have been to places much worse, so you would be surprised what I can endure.  You have a phenomenal skill of posting empty words.  I can say you dont get loads of things too, but that would be an empty statement as well.

[Kerdy]

I've looked at the videos of the women sneering and sniggering as the judgement was read out, they don't look penitent or repentant. In fact there is something dead about their eyes and the anger and malevolence is pretty near to the surface. They've done 7 months already, with good behaviour they'll be out in 6 months and they can return to their richly deserved obscurity, they're music is so shite that they won't, even with studio assistance, be able to make a decent sound. They also have form, they are closely associated with a "protest" in a public museum which involved live sex acts and also another "protest" which involved videoing a woman stealing chicken from a super market and secreting it in the aisle of the mart in her private parts, this may be an explanation for the reference to their association with porno hooligans in the judgement. Taking a look at these sick puppies I would be surprised if they aren't all tormented by a host of demonic elements who happily inhabit their dead and lifeless brains.

Unlike some people, I actually did some research on them.  They are anarchists supporting the overthrow of the government.  The same government who arrested them at a previous illegal performance and released them the next day, they didn't learn.  Apparently, all of their performances have been conducted illegally.  Oh, I forgot to mention they admitted to repeatedly telling lies to the police.  Now, after multiple chances, people are offended a government punished those attempting and promoting its demise.  Again, they are anarchists and this was the purpose of their creation.

I also just read where the Russian Orthodox Church requested compassion in their sentencing in the hope they would become better people.  This sort of takes the wind from everyone's sails.

[Bigsinner]

Why do I think that the same people applauding their two year prison sentence (or bemoaning the fact that it is not even harsher) would be the first to cry foul if Cindy Sheehan spent two days in jail?  I am not an anarchist and I would not think of protesting inside a church.  However, one's punishment for protesting without a license should not hinge on whether or not you agree with the message.

[Kerdy]

I just saw a poll which indicates 60% of Russians agreed with the results and believed the band members deserved it the punishment.

[Cognomen]

Their performance was absolute dross.  They should be imprisoned for that alone.

[Achronos]

Their performance was absolute dross.  They should be imprisoned for that alone.

This.

[Kerdy]

Why do I think that the same people applauding their two year prison sentence (or bemoaning the fact that it is not even harsher) would be the first to cry foul if Cindy Sheehan spent two days in jail?  I am not an anarchist and I would not think of protesting inside a church.  However, one's punishment for protesting without a license should not hinge on whether or not you agree with the message.

Cindy Sheehan?  I don't like her, but I can't express my views of her here.  I'll just say I REALLY don't respect the woman.  But, she should, as anyone else in America, go to prison if they engage in activities designed to overthrow the government.

[jewish voice]

Really in all honesty if we were to look at the facts here. All the ones in support of the Jail time should also be in jail for your blasphemy of 1.2 billion Muslims and 200 million Jews. To us you blasphemy G-d everyday you wake up. 2) these women are not Orthodox so they say then in turn they can't be charged with blasphemy of your G-d that they don't hold to. now for grounds of trespassing yes but 2 yrs for that is very harsh. If the Church wants to start putting people in jail for blasphemy they need to start to get in line for their time in jail as well.

[Kerdy]

Really in all honesty if we were to look at the facts here. All the ones in support of the Jail time should also be in jail for your blasphemy of 1.2 billion Muslims and 200 million Jews. To us you blasphemy G-d everyday you wake up. 2) these women are not Orthodox so they say then in turn they can't be charged with blasphemy of your G-d that they don't hold to. now for grounds of trespassing yes but 2 yrs for that is very harsh. If the Church wants to start putting people in jail for blasphemy they need to start to get in line for their time in jail as well.

If I may suggest, please read everything first.  Most of post your is based off incorrect assumptions  already clarified and weak associations between things unrelated.

[Michał Kalina]

Really in all honesty if we were to look at the facts here. All the ones in support of the Jail time should also be in jail for your blasphemy of 1.2 billion Muslims and 200 million Jews. To us you blasphemy G-d everyday you wake up. 2) these women are not Orthodox so they say then in turn they can't be charged with blasphemy of your G-d that they don't hold to. now for grounds of trespassing yes but 2 yrs for that is very harsh. If the Church wants to start putting people in jail for blasphemy they need to start to get in line for their time in jail as well.

This.

[Michał Kalina]

Church asks state to show mercy to convicted Pussy Riot members (updated)
http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=news&div=9740

Too late.

[Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)]

Is taking a mother away from her child for two years for what was a *political* and not religious  protest just?

Is a mother fighting the system without any hesitation and thinking about the fate of her child a mother? Just sayin'.

If you think 2 years in Prison for what amounts to trespassing is just, I hope you pay careful attention to the "Stay of the Grass" signs.

Please forgive me, but I am confused.  On this thread people were complaining about seven years and now they received less than one third of that, you are still complaining?  I don't get it, but I suspect if they received time served, some would still say it was too severe.  Maybe this will sink into the minds of protesters.  Don't violate the sanctity of the Church.

The Lord said "turn the other cheek." On one hand, I intensely disliked what these misguided young women did. On the other hand, I think the reaction of the Patriarch and many believers was not in keeping with our Lord's approach. In a perverse way, the reaction violated the true sanctity of the Body of Christ worse than the action itself.

[Bigsinner]

Really in all honesty if we were to look at the facts here. All the ones in support of the Jail time should also be in jail for your blasphemy of 1.2 billion Muslims and 200 million Jews. To us you blasphemy G-d everyday you wake up. 2) these women are not Orthodox so they say then in turn they can't be charged with blasphemy of your G-d that they don't hold to. now for grounds of trespassing yes but 2 yrs for that is very harsh. If the Church wants to start putting people in jail for blasphemy they need to start to get in line for their time in jail as well.

This.

Finally, Michael, something we can agree on!   

[Kerdy]

Church asks state to show mercy to convicted Pussy Riot members (updated)
http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=news&div=9740

Too late.

Because you say so?

[Tags:]

OrthodoxChristianity.net > Moderated Forums > Free-For-All > Religious Topics (Moderator: Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)) > Topic: Orthodox Believers Stand Up For Jailed Anti-Putin Punk Rockers / Members Of Female Punk Band PUSSY RIOT On Trial For Church Protest / Aleksandr Dugin on "Pussy Riots" global blackmail