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Author Topic: Orthodox Believers Stand Up For Jailed Anti-Putin Punk Rockers / Members Of Female Punk Band PUSSY RIOT On Trial For Church Protest / Aleksandr Dugin on "Pussy Riots" global blackmail  (Read 18317 times) Average Rating: 0
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sheenj
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« Reply #225 on: August 14, 2012, 06:04:40 PM »

The latest from Holy Rus':

An Orthodox priest who endorses the jailing of the Pussy Riot group of Russian activists has crashed a BMW Z4 roadster with diplomatic licence plates into two cars in Moscow, raising new questions about the lifestyle of the country's clergy.

Alexei Podobedov – also known as Igumen Timofei – collided with the vehicles on the evening of July 31, but details of the accident only emerged this week.

The BMW sports car the priest was driving had Maltese diplomatic number plates and he told police it belonged to a friend. Reports that Mr Podobedov, 38, was inebriated, were strenuously denied by his lawyer.
Unrelated.  These two incidents have nothing to do with one another.  Also, without all the information available, its a bit premature to post this with any expectation of guilt for more than poor driving.

You know...at first I thought the same thing, but afterwards I realized that this priest is against the Pussy Riot girls, has been arrested for at the very least destructive driving.  So when the church says that these girls are a danger to society...what does that make this priest then?  

Right, this man is an actual danger to society and very likely had some sort of illegal registration on this car.  For well-connected people this is common and lets the traffic police know that they shouldn't go after such cars for bribes (instead the average Russian making a few hundred dollars a months should be preyed upon).  The issue gets at the moral bankruptcy of the MP.  A few dissidents who committed a relatively innocuous offense are likely going to spend many years in jail with the the Patriarch cheering on this decision of the court and further calling for no mercy to be shown to these girls.  On the other hand the inner circle of the MP live a criminal lifestyle and nothing is done about it.  
Even if all of your guessing is remotely accurate, these are still separate incidents.

No they aren't - when you public call for no mercy to be shown to people and then are involved in criminal acts yourself there is a problem.  
I didn't say there was no problem, I said they are unrelated, legally.  If a man is accused of cheating on his wife and her brother spray paints his car saying he is having an affair, these are two separate incidents.  One, he's a cheating scumbag.  Two, her brother damaged private property.  Each must be handled individually.
No it's more like a man condemns those who commit misdemeanors (such as say, trespassing), and then commits a felony (like reckless driving) himself.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2012, 06:06:55 PM by sheenj » Logged
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« Reply #226 on: August 14, 2012, 06:57:42 PM »

The latest from Holy Rus':

An Orthodox priest who endorses the jailing of the Pussy Riot group of Russian activists has crashed a BMW Z4 roadster with diplomatic licence plates into two cars in Moscow, raising new questions about the lifestyle of the country's clergy.

Alexei Podobedov – also known as Igumen Timofei – collided with the vehicles on the evening of July 31, but details of the accident only emerged this week.

The BMW sports car the priest was driving had Maltese diplomatic number plates and he told police it belonged to a friend. Reports that Mr Podobedov, 38, was inebriated, were strenuously denied by his lawyer.
Unrelated.  These two incidents have nothing to do with one another.  Also, without all the information available, its a bit premature to post this with any expectation of guilt for more than poor driving.

You know...at first I thought the same thing, but afterwards I realized that this priest is against the Pussy Riot girls, has been arrested for at the very least destructive driving.  So when the church says that these girls are a danger to society...what does that make this priest then?  

Right, this man is an actual danger to society and very likely had some sort of illegal registration on this car.  For well-connected people this is common and lets the traffic police know that they shouldn't go after such cars for bribes (instead the average Russian making a few hundred dollars a months should be preyed upon).  The issue gets at the moral bankruptcy of the MP.  A few dissidents who committed a relatively innocuous offense are likely going to spend many years in jail with the the Patriarch cheering on this decision of the court and further calling for no mercy to be shown to these girls.  On the other hand the inner circle of the MP live a criminal lifestyle and nothing is done about it.  
Even if all of your guessing is remotely accurate, these are still separate incidents.

No they aren't - when you public call for no mercy to be shown to people and then are involved in criminal acts yourself there is a problem.  
I didn't say there was no problem, I said they are unrelated, legally.  If a man is accused of cheating on his wife and her brother spray paints his car saying he is having an affair, these are two separate incidents.  One, he's a cheating scumbag.  Two, her brother damaged private property.  Each must be handled individually.
No it's more like a man condemns those who commit misdemeanors (such as say, trespassing), and then commits a felony (like reckless driving) himself.

Right.  Two different and separate actions.  Two different and separate incidents.  Neither having anything to do with the other.  Both (potentially) wrong by each set of people involved.  Even if he is wrong, this in no way provides acceptance of the girl band members actions.  This isn't a "gotcha" moment.

If I perceive an injustice by someone and myself commit a crime, I am still guilty.  If the person I opposed goes out and later commits an unrelated crime, it has nothing to do with my previous actions.  This is nothing more than finger pointing at this point.  What if later we find out this priest did just borrow a car, a steer tire blew out and caused an accident he could not prevent?  What if he was intoxicated?  Neither has anything to do with the band members actions.  I encourage us all not to let our emotions control our thoughts.
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« Reply #227 on: August 14, 2012, 07:02:26 PM »

The latest from Holy Rus':

An Orthodox priest who endorses the jailing of the Pussy Riot group of Russian activists has crashed a BMW Z4 roadster with diplomatic licence plates into two cars in Moscow, raising new questions about the lifestyle of the country's clergy.

Alexei Podobedov – also known as Igumen Timofei – collided with the vehicles on the evening of July 31, but details of the accident only emerged this week.

The BMW sports car the priest was driving had Maltese diplomatic number plates and he told police it belonged to a friend. Reports that Mr Podobedov, 38, was inebriated, were strenuously denied by his lawyer.
Unrelated.  These two incidents have nothing to do with one another.  Also, without all the information available, its a bit premature to post this with any expectation of guilt for more than poor driving.

You know...at first I thought the same thing, but afterwards I realized that this priest is against the Pussy Riot girls, has been arrested for at the very least destructive driving.  So when the church says that these girls are a danger to society...what does that make this priest then? 

Right, this man is an actual danger to society and very likely had some sort of illegal registration on this car.  For well-connected people this is common and lets the traffic police know that they shouldn't go after such cars for bribes (instead the average Russian making a few hundred dollars a months should be preyed upon).  The issue gets at the moral bankruptcy of the MP.  A few dissidents who committed a relatively innocuous offense are likely going to spend many years in jail with the the Patriarch cheering on this decision of the court and further calling for no mercy to be shown to these girls.  On the other hand the inner circle of the MP live a criminal lifestyle and nothing is done about it.  
Even if all of your guessing is remotely accurate, these are still separate incidents.

No they aren't - when you public call for no mercy to be shown to people and then are involved in criminal acts yourself there is a problem. 
I didn't say there was no problem, I said they are unrelated, legally.  If a man is accused of cheating on his wife and her brother spray paints his car saying he is having an affair, these are two separate incidents.  One, he's a cheating scumbag.  Two, her brother damaged private property.  Each must be handled individually.

I'm seeing this in the larger picture: the inner circle of the MP live flashy lives devoid of any external asceticism and in some cases are outright morally dubious.  Any criticism of this within Russian society is blunted and called anti-Christian.  Yet the MP takes his political opponents to court and ruins them.  Or in the case of his neighbor (in an apartment this is also of questionable legality) took him to court, said to the press "it is not possible to forgive" and demanded hundreds of thousands of rubles over dust.  It might seem strange to someone outside of this society, but this case is just yet another example of the "Church" living like oligarchs by one standard, and the rest us living by a different, cruel standard. 
I understand what you are saying, but there is an old saying that two wrongs don't make a right.  In otherwords, pointing out bad behavior doesnt justify someone else's bad behavior.  If they are corrupt, there are other ways to uncover and reveal it than disgraceful actions inside a church.  For instance, sit back and let a priest crash a car he shouldn't have and be intoxicated. 
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« Reply #228 on: August 14, 2012, 07:07:23 PM »

I'm not saying there is no corruption.  I'm not saying there is.  All I'm saying is it has nothing to do with this girl band breaking any law.  It's a topic for another thread, which I would personally be extremely interested is seeing, as I honestly know very little about it.
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« Reply #229 on: August 14, 2012, 07:13:44 PM »

The latest from Holy Rus':

An Orthodox priest who endorses the jailing of the Pussy Riot group of Russian activists has crashed a BMW Z4 roadster with diplomatic licence plates into two cars in Moscow, raising new questions about the lifestyle of the country's clergy.

Alexei Podobedov – also known as Igumen Timofei – collided with the vehicles on the evening of July 31, but details of the accident only emerged this week.

The BMW sports car the priest was driving had Maltese diplomatic number plates and he told police it belonged to a friend. Reports that Mr Podobedov, 38, was inebriated, were strenuously denied by his lawyer.
Unrelated.  These two incidents have nothing to do with one another.  Also, without all the information available, its a bit premature to post this with any expectation of guilt for more than poor driving.

You know...at first I thought the same thing, but afterwards I realized that this priest is against the Pussy Riot girls, has been arrested for at the very least destructive driving.  So when the church says that these girls are a danger to society...what does that make this priest then? 

Right, this man is an actual danger to society and very likely had some sort of illegal registration on this car.  For well-connected people this is common and lets the traffic police know that they shouldn't go after such cars for bribes (instead the average Russian making a few hundred dollars a months should be preyed upon).  The issue gets at the moral bankruptcy of the MP.  A few dissidents who committed a relatively innocuous offense are likely going to spend many years in jail with the the Patriarch cheering on this decision of the court and further calling for no mercy to be shown to these girls.  On the other hand the inner circle of the MP live a criminal lifestyle and nothing is done about it.  
Even if all of your guessing is remotely accurate, these are still separate incidents.

No they aren't - when you public call for no mercy to be shown to people and then are involved in criminal acts yourself there is a problem. 
I didn't say there was no problem, I said they are unrelated, legally.  If a man is accused of cheating on his wife and her brother spray paints his car saying he is having an affair, these are two separate incidents.  One, he's a cheating scumbag.  Two, her brother damaged private property.  Each must be handled individually.

I'm seeing this in the larger picture: the inner circle of the MP live flashy lives devoid of any external asceticism and in some cases are outright morally dubious.  Any criticism of this within Russian society is blunted and called anti-Christian.  Yet the MP takes his political opponents to court and ruins them.  Or in the case of his neighbor (in an apartment this is also of questionable legality) took him to court, said to the press "it is not possible to forgive" and demanded hundreds of thousands of rubles over dust.  It might seem strange to someone outside of this society, but this case is just yet another example of the "Church" living like oligarchs by one standard, and the rest us living by a different, cruel standard. 
I understand what you are saying, but there is an old saying that two wrongs don't make a right.  In otherwords, pointing out bad behavior doesnt justify someone else's bad behavior.  If they are corrupt, there are other ways to uncover and reveal it than disgraceful actions inside a church.  For instance, sit back and let a priest crash a car he shouldn't have and be intoxicated. 
You're straining the gnat and swallowing the camel. Not that it's surprising, but hopefully you'll grow up and realized that being orthodox doesn't mean you should always side with the upper hierarchy that has their own interests that aren't yours etc.
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« Reply #230 on: August 14, 2012, 07:22:09 PM »

I honestly know very little about it.

And you are trying to tell me what I should think?  

The issues are related as the MP and its minions have been calling for blood in the domestic press.  On the other hand the only semi-official statement I've seen in the press re: Igumen Timothy was something along the lines of waiting and seeing what conclusions the civil authorities come to...no sense of hysteria or screaming for justice that is otherwise typical of statements denouncing the political opponents of the MP.  

Do I think what Pussy Riot did was proper?  No, but of all the crimes that happen on a daily basis within the CIS it ranks pretty close to being the least important.  
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« Reply #231 on: August 14, 2012, 08:17:46 PM »

The latest from Holy Rus':

An Orthodox priest who endorses the jailing of the Pussy Riot group of Russian activists has crashed a BMW Z4 roadster with diplomatic licence plates into two cars in Moscow, raising new questions about the lifestyle of the country's clergy.

Alexei Podobedov – also known as Igumen Timofei – collided with the vehicles on the evening of July 31, but details of the accident only emerged this week.

The BMW sports car the priest was driving had Maltese diplomatic number plates and he told police it belonged to a friend. Reports that Mr Podobedov, 38, was inebriated, were strenuously denied by his lawyer.
Unrelated.  These two incidents have nothing to do with one another.  Also, without all the information available, its a bit premature to post this with any expectation of guilt for more than poor driving.

You know...at first I thought the same thing, but afterwards I realized that this priest is against the Pussy Riot girls, has been arrested for at the very least destructive driving.  So when the church says that these girls are a danger to society...what does that make this priest then? 

Right, this man is an actual danger to society and very likely had some sort of illegal registration on this car.  For well-connected people this is common and lets the traffic police know that they shouldn't go after such cars for bribes (instead the average Russian making a few hundred dollars a months should be preyed upon).  The issue gets at the moral bankruptcy of the MP.  A few dissidents who committed a relatively innocuous offense are likely going to spend many years in jail with the the Patriarch cheering on this decision of the court and further calling for no mercy to be shown to these girls.  On the other hand the inner circle of the MP live a criminal lifestyle and nothing is done about it.  
Even if all of your guessing is remotely accurate, these are still separate incidents.

No they aren't - when you public call for no mercy to be shown to people and then are involved in criminal acts yourself there is a problem. 
I didn't say there was no problem, I said they are unrelated, legally.  If a man is accused of cheating on his wife and her brother spray paints his car saying he is having an affair, these are two separate incidents.  One, he's a cheating scumbag.  Two, her brother damaged private property.  Each must be handled individually.

I'm seeing this in the larger picture: the inner circle of the MP live flashy lives devoid of any external asceticism and in some cases are outright morally dubious.  Any criticism of this within Russian society is blunted and called anti-Christian.  Yet the MP takes his political opponents to court and ruins them.  Or in the case of his neighbor (in an apartment this is also of questionable legality) took him to court, said to the press "it is not possible to forgive" and demanded hundreds of thousands of rubles over dust.  It might seem strange to someone outside of this society, but this case is just yet another example of the "Church" living like oligarchs by one standard, and the rest us living by a different, cruel standard. 
I understand what you are saying, but there is an old saying that two wrongs don't make a right.  In otherwords, pointing out bad behavior doesnt justify someone else's bad behavior.  If they are corrupt, there are other ways to uncover and reveal it than disgraceful actions inside a church.  For instance, sit back and let a priest crash a car he shouldn't have and be intoxicated. 
You're straining the gnat and swallowing the camel. Not that it's surprising, but hopefully you'll grow up and realized that being orthodox doesn't mean you should always side with the upper hierarchy that has their own interests that aren't yours etc.
Maybe, when I grow up.  Personal jabs always help, don't they?
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« Reply #232 on: August 14, 2012, 08:21:46 PM »

I honestly know very little about it.

And you are trying to tell me what I should think?  

The issues are related as the MP and its minions have been calling for blood in the domestic press.  On the other hand the only semi-official statement I've seen in the press re: Igumen Timothy was something along the lines of waiting and seeing what conclusions the civil authorities come to...no sense of hysteria or screaming for justice that is otherwise typical of statements denouncing the political opponents of the MP.  

Do I think what Pussy Riot did was proper?  No, but of all the crimes that happen on a daily basis within the CIS it ranks pretty close to being the least important.  
Well, I'm not going to argue.  My only concern is emotional attaching one event to another when they should not be connected.  If what you are seeking is justice, that is entirely the wrong approach.
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« Reply #233 on: August 14, 2012, 08:23:56 PM »

Why do American converts think things in Russia go the very same way as in their parishes?
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« Reply #234 on: August 14, 2012, 08:28:51 PM »

Why do American converts think things in Russia go the very same way as in their parishes?
I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't.
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« Reply #235 on: August 14, 2012, 08:34:00 PM »

Your posts speak otherwise.
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« Reply #236 on: August 14, 2012, 08:58:30 PM »

 
Your posts speak otherwise.
Huh

If you say so, but I'm not here to argue.

I didn't realize you were Russian.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2012, 08:59:19 PM by Kerdy » Logged
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« Reply #237 on: August 15, 2012, 02:11:10 AM »



Austria. An Orthodox Church.
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« Reply #238 on: August 15, 2012, 03:22:55 AM »



Austria. An Orthodox Church.

How unfortunate. Perhaps an embassy would be a better place for such antics.
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« Reply #239 on: August 15, 2012, 06:09:06 AM »

I didn't realize you were Russian.

I'm not. But I belong to an Eastern Slavic nation, I've been to Russia, know many Russians and my country's Orthodox culture is heavily influenced by Russia.
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« Reply #240 on: August 15, 2012, 07:58:17 AM »



Austria. An Orthodox Church.

How unfortunate. Perhaps an embassy would be a better place for such antics.
I agree, a place it may actually have some success.  Without silly masks instead of looking like hoodlums.

I especially enjoy the familiar, "God Loves.." portion.  Somehow, I don't see God jamming out to this vulgarly titled band.  As some previously pointed out, these signs are all in English for a reason.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2012, 08:03:39 AM by Kerdy » Logged
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« Reply #241 on: August 15, 2012, 08:00:25 AM »

I didn't realize you were Russian.

I'm not.
Interesting.
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« Reply #242 on: August 15, 2012, 10:04:49 AM »



Austria. An Orthodox Church.

How unfortunate. Perhaps an embassy would be a better place for such antics.

It is the MP that turned churches into political grounds, not Pussy Riot. 
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« Reply #243 on: August 15, 2012, 10:10:46 AM »



Austria. An Orthodox Church.

How unfortunate. Perhaps an embassy would be a better place for such antics.

It is the MP that turned churches into political grounds, not Pussy Riot. 
Because you see one person doing something you think is wrong, all bets are off and people can do whatever they like in response?  That approach has never been successful in the past, what makes you think this will be different?  Fingerpointing is child's play.  Stop attempting to justify wrongs by pointing to other wrongs.  Try supporting what is right.  It's what Christians are supposed to be doing.
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« Reply #244 on: August 15, 2012, 10:48:55 AM »

I may be wrong, but I don't think people here are saying that the MP is flawed therefore the punk group did nothing wrong. I don't think anyone is saying that because the MP is flawed/wrong vis-a-vis some issue, then any and all actions committed in protest should be allowed/forgiven. 

I believe that they making these separate points:

1.  These girls were wrong in what they did, and should be punished accordingly, but the punishment must fit the crime.   
     Up to seven years imprisonment for what amounts to non-violent disturbing the peace is excessive any way you 
     slice it.

2.  The MP is not projecting Christian values by demanding blood for being insulted.

3.  The MP, by being inconsistent in their treatment of these girls versus their treatment of questionable activities by their
     own clergy, is exhibiting hypocricy.
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« Reply #245 on: August 15, 2012, 10:51:40 AM »

1.  These girls were wrong in what they did, and should be punished accordingly, but the punishment must fit the crime.  Up
     to seven years imprisonment for what amounts to non-violent disturbing the peace is excessive any way you slice
     it.

2.  The MP is not projecting Christian values by demanding blood for being insulted.

3.  The MP, by being inconsistent in their treatment of these girls versus their treatment of questionable activities by their
     own clergy, is exhibiting hypocricy.

4. The MP should not be surprised that people do not view churches as sacred when they do big alcohol parties themselves there.
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« Reply #246 on: August 15, 2012, 10:58:10 AM »

1.  These girls were wrong in what they did, and should be punished accordingly, but the punishment must fit the crime.  Up
     to seven years imprisonment for what amounts to non-violent disturbing the peace is excessive any way you slice
     it.

2.  The MP is not projecting Christian values by demanding blood for being insulted.

3.  The MP, by being inconsistent in their treatment of these girls versus their treatment of questionable activities by their
     own clergy, is exhibiting hypocricy.

4. The MP should not be surprised that people do not view churches as sacred when they do big alcohol parties themselves there.

I don't know about your church, but my church isn't holding keggers on the altar.   Roll Eyes  Perhaps you could be a little more specific, or would you rather just make incendiary statements (as is your want) and run away?   police
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« Reply #247 on: August 15, 2012, 11:16:31 AM »



Austria. An Orthodox Church.

How unfortunate. Perhaps an embassy would be a better place for such antics.

It is the MP that turned churches into political grounds, not Pussy Riot. 
Because you see one person doing something you think is wrong, all bets are off and people can do whatever they like in response?  That approach has never been successful in the past, what makes you think this will be different?  Fingerpointing is child's play.  Stop attempting to justify wrongs by pointing to other wrongs.  Try supporting what is right.  It's what Christians are supposed to be doing.
No one's saying that what the Pussy Riot Girls did was right. What they're saying is that the MP's stance on this matter is uncharitable and downright unchristian, and frankly, I have to agree with that.
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« Reply #248 on: August 15, 2012, 11:18:11 AM »

Finland. A criminal case was started by Finnish police against a professor, who tried to make a performance a-la PR in an Orthodox Cathedral.   



http://top.rbc.ru/incidents/15/08/2012/664709.shtml
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« Reply #249 on: August 15, 2012, 11:35:07 AM »

I don't know about your church, but my church isn't holding keggers on the altar.   Roll Eyes  Perhaps you could be a little more specific, or would you rather just make incendiary statements (as is your want) and run away?   police

try some of these:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ds5XMeKMHHw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIxXyqiNQh
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dp2hZyCgMJE
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« Reply #250 on: August 15, 2012, 12:30:45 PM »

So are the Orthodox becoming more modern and liberal with such performances?
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« Reply #251 on: August 15, 2012, 01:45:41 PM »

Quote
from Michael Kalina: 4. The MP should not be surprised that people do not view churches as sacred when they do big alcohol parties themselves there.

Quote

(not so) Nice try Michael K.  In the words of a great man, "there you go again".

You accuse the MP of having "big alcohol parties" in church;  I call you on it;  and then you offer videos that DO NOT DEPICT 'big alcohol parties".  Are you purposely trying to mislead people?
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« Reply #252 on: August 15, 2012, 01:48:19 PM »

Quote
from Michael Kalina: 4. The MP should not be surprised that people do not view churches as sacred when they do big alcohol parties themselves there.

Quote

(not so) Nice try Michael K.  In the words of a great man, "there you go again".

You accuse the MP of having "big alcohol parties" in church;  I call you on it;  and then you offer videos that DO NOT DEPICT 'big alcohol parties".  Are you purposely trying to mislead people?

Try going to church on Easter here.  It is filled with drunks getting the vodka in their Easter baskets blessed. 
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« Reply #253 on: August 15, 2012, 01:55:52 PM »

You accuse the MP of having "big alcohol parties" in church;  I call you on it;  and then you offer videos that DO NOT DEPICT 'big alcohol parties".  Are you purposely trying to mislead people?

"Sophrino's" president birthday party in the Christ the Saviour Cathedral:
http://irek-murtazin.livejournal.com/757243.html?view=20911099#t20911099
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« Reply #254 on: August 15, 2012, 01:56:59 PM »

I thought you guys had the freedom to protest now. What exactly are their charges?
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« Reply #255 on: August 15, 2012, 02:05:41 PM »

You accuse the MP of having "big alcohol parties" in church;  I call you on it;  and then you offer videos that DO NOT DEPICT 'big alcohol parties".  Are you purposely trying to mislead people?

"Sophrino's" president birthday party in the Christ the Saviour Cathedral:
http://irek-murtazin.livejournal.com/757243.html?view=20911099#t20911099

There you go again!

This link also does not show "big alcohol parties" in a church (or cathedral).  I see a dinner-dance in what appears to be a hall, and I see people on a boat of some sort.   Huh

Or are you of the opinion that any drinking of alcohol outside of partaking of the Eucharist is a sin?
« Last Edit: August 15, 2012, 02:07:44 PM by Bigsinner » Logged
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« Reply #256 on: August 15, 2012, 02:08:12 PM »

This link also does not show "big alcohol parties" in a church.  I see a dinner-dance in what appears to be a hall, and I see people on a boat of some sort.   Huh

The first part is in the Church basement. The very same Church the Pussy Riot performed.
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« Reply #257 on: August 15, 2012, 02:23:34 PM »

So the church hall is in the basement.  So?  When one accuses another of having "big alcohol parties" in a church, others expect it to be alcoholic debauchery in the church, rather than a dinner party in the church hall during which alcohol was served. 

Since the pictures do not support your original assertion and its logical inferences, I will ask you again:  Outside of partaking of the Eucharist, are you implying that it is a sin to consume alcohol?
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« Reply #258 on: August 15, 2012, 02:27:20 PM »

So the church hall is in the basement.  So?  When one accuses another of having "big alcohol parties" in a church, others expect it to be alcoholic debauchery in the church, rather than a dinner party in the church hall during which alcohol was served. 

Since the pictures do not support your original assertion and its logical inferences, I will ask you again:  Outside of partaking of the Eucharist, are you implying that it is a sin to consume alcohol?

Have you have been to ХХС?  Or more to the point, ever been to a Russian part?   Cheesy   
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« Reply #259 on: August 15, 2012, 02:55:05 PM »

Have you have been to ХХС? 

I've been there to a 3-day-long conference.
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« Reply #260 on: August 15, 2012, 03:04:07 PM »

Have you have been to ХХС? 

I've been there to a 3-day-long conference.

It's been a few years since I've been there, but if I remember correctly the basement is sort of a continuation of the sacred space rather than a delineated church hall that is common in the US. 
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« Reply #261 on: August 15, 2012, 03:05:24 PM »

Well, all these conference and banquet halls have frescoes and icon stands everywhere, that's for sure.
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« Reply #262 on: August 15, 2012, 04:59:26 PM »



Austria. An Orthodox Church.

Hey, they've done worse . . . This is pretty tame by Austrian standards.
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« Reply #263 on: August 15, 2012, 05:01:09 PM »

Why do American converts think things in Russia go the very same way as in their parishes?

Kerdy likes to be wrong. While a seemingly grand American pastime, not everyone is quite so caught up in it as he.
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« Reply #264 on: August 15, 2012, 05:02:23 PM »



Austria. An Orthodox Church.

How unfortunate. Perhaps an embassy would be a better place for such antics.

Whoa this ain't politics? I just nearly made an terrible pun that would've gotten me modded in a public forum.
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« Reply #265 on: August 15, 2012, 05:10:53 PM »

Guys, please stop it. Do not accuse anyone. No one deserves it, neither they, nor you. Yes, I know I've attacked Schultz, and I'm not proud of it. Just don't do the same as me, for I am sorry. No one is to blame. This is just one big misunderstanding.
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« Reply #266 on: August 15, 2012, 06:50:49 PM »



Austria. An Orthodox Church.

How unfortunate. Perhaps an embassy would be a better place for such antics.

It is the MP that turned churches into political grounds, not Pussy Riot. 
Because you see one person doing something you think is wrong, all bets are off and people can do whatever they like in response?  That approach has never been successful in the past, what makes you think this will be different?  Fingerpointing is child's play.  Stop attempting to justify wrongs by pointing to other wrongs.  Try supporting what is right.  It's what Christians are supposed to be doing.
No one's saying that what the Pussy Riot Girls did was right. What they're saying is that the MP's stance on this matter is uncharitable and downright unchristian, and frankly, I have to agree with that.
It would help if people clearly and simply said what you just said and left it at that.
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« Reply #267 on: August 15, 2012, 07:34:09 PM »



Austria. An Orthodox Church.

How unfortunate. Perhaps an embassy would be a better place for such antics.

It is the MP that turned churches into political grounds, not Pussy Riot. 
Because you see one person doing something you think is wrong, all bets are off and people can do whatever they like in response?  That approach has never been successful in the past, what makes you think this will be different?  Fingerpointing is child's play.  Stop attempting to justify wrongs by pointing to other wrongs.  Try supporting what is right.  It's what Christians are supposed to be doing.
No one's saying that what the Pussy Riot Girls did was right. What they're saying is that the MP's stance on this matter is uncharitable and downright unchristian, and frankly, I have to agree with that.

I don't.
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« Reply #268 on: August 16, 2012, 12:14:58 PM »



Austria. An Orthodox Church.

How unfortunate. Perhaps an embassy would be a better place for such antics.

Whoa this ain't politics? I just nearly made an terrible pun that would've gotten me modded in a public forum.

It's not like there is advocacy for voting, or pushing a certain agenda.  Just a statement of thought/fact.  Plus they did say "perhaps"   Wink Grin Roll Eyes angel
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« Reply #269 on: August 17, 2012, 06:28:59 AM »

I may not agree with Aleksandr Dugin's thought on all things, but his analysis of the
Significance of the whole global media campaign around the "Pussy Riot" trial is thought provoking and
Worthy of following for the full ten minutes of the video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxhxRyeX8tY&feature=youtube_gdata_player
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