Author Topic: Orthodox Believers Stand Up For Jailed Anti-Putin Punk Rockers / Members Of Female Punk Band PUSSY RIOT On Trial For Church Protest / Aleksandr Dugin on "Pussy Riots" global blackmail  (Read 21558 times)

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Offline Pan Michał

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Re: Orthodox Believers Stand Up For Jailed Anti-Putin Punk Rockers
« Reply #180 on: August 07, 2012, 10:30:52 AM »
Sometimes one must break the law in order to point out that a law is unjust.  

And he must know the consequences. They did not break the law to fight Putin. The've break the law in the most cynical way, using what's sacred for most of the Russians to fight Putin, thus protecting themselves from moral opinions of every side.

A seven year prison sentence for what amounts to disturbing the peace is not only unjust, but it will also put these women in an environment where the only thing they will learn is resentment, hatred, and possibly other more violent criminal behavior.

Will it be just to let them out, in spite of what Russian citizens asked their head of a gouvernement?

We put robbers in jail, where there is resentment, hatred and possibly other more violent criminal behavior, yet I don't hear of anyone complaining about it. Do you?

But your keep your head buried in the sand to the consequences of an over-eager "justice" system that will punish a bunch of teenagers for blasphemy but let the real blasphemers (aka the politicians) receive communion without batting an eyelash.  

I know exactly what's the case - if it were Putin that would enter a parish in his car, it would be tremendous sacrilege done by an inhuman being. Yet, since it was bunch of girls who purportedly broke the law to fight Putin, they are persecuted innocents, or "bunch of teenagers" at best.

Take your petty wallet thieves out of jail and persecute real robbers (aka the politicians).

What's over-eager, the law that says that if someone does an act of wounding of religious feelings (NOT a blasphemy, despite what you write), restricted by penalty, he may be persecuted by law? Did you forget that they have not only made a circus in a church, but also made calls like "Putin get out", public offending of a head of a country, which is a crime not only in Russia, but in Poland, Germany, France, USA, and so forth? And those TWO crimes MAY sent them to jail for UP TO 7 years?
« Last Edit: August 07, 2012, 10:35:17 AM by Pan Michał »

Offline Schultz

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Re: Orthodox Believers Stand Up For Jailed Anti-Putin Punk Rockers
« Reply #181 on: August 07, 2012, 10:38:42 AM »
Sometimes one must break the law in order to point out that a law is unjust.  

And he must know the consequences. They did not break the law to fight Putin. The've break the law in the most cynical way, using what's sacred for most of the Russians to fight Putin, thus protecting themselves from moral opinions of every side.

Bull.
Quote
A seven year prison sentence for what amounts to disturbing the peace is not only unjust, but it will also put these women in an environment where the only thing they will learn is resentment, hatred, and possibly other more violent criminal behavior.

Will it be just to let them out, in spite of what Russian citizens asked their head of a gouvernement?

No said let them out.  Punishment should be commensurate with the crime. 

Quote
We put robbers in jail, where there is resentment, hatred and possibly other more violent criminal behavior, yet I don't hear of anyone complaining about it. Do you?

Robbery is, by its nature, a violent act against another human being. 

Political speech is not. 

Quote
But your keep your head buried in the sand to the consequences of an over-eager "justice" system that will punish a bunch of teenagers for blasphemy but let the real blasphemers (aka the politicians) receive communion without batting an eyelash.  

I know exactly what's the case - if it were Putin that would enter a parish in his car, it would be tremendous sacrilege done by an inhuman being. Yet, since it was bunch of girls who purportedly broke the law to fight Putin, they are persecuted innocents, or "bunch of teenagers" at best.

Take your petty wallet thieves out of jail and persecute real robbers (aka the politicians).

What's over-eager, the law that says that if someone does an act of wounding of religious feelings (NOT a blasphemy, despite what you write), restricted by penalty, he may be persecuted by law? Did you forget that they have not only made a circus in a church, but also made calls like "Putin get out", public offending of a head of a country, which is a crime not only in Russia, but in Poland, Germany, France, USA, and so forth? And those TWO crimes MAY sent them to jail for UP TO 7 years?
[/quote]
It is certainly not against the law in the United States, nor, I suspect in Germany or France, to call for the resignation of an elected official. 
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Offline Pan Michał

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Re: Orthodox Believers Stand Up For Jailed Anti-Putin Punk Rockers
« Reply #182 on: August 07, 2012, 10:48:28 AM »
Bull.

Pity to see you give up in a semi vulgar way. But whatever.

No said let them out.  Punishment should be commensurate with the crime.

Which is?


Robbery is, by its nature, a violent act against another human being.  

Political speech is not.

And publicly offending a head of a state is, by it's nature, a crime restricted by law.

It is certainly not against the law in the United States, nor, I suspect in Germany or France, to call for the resignation of an elected official.  

Call for the resignation? You ever read their lyrics? Or just hypothetyzing?
« Last Edit: August 07, 2012, 10:49:35 AM by Pan Michał »

Offline Schultz

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Re: Orthodox Believers Stand Up For Jailed Anti-Putin Punk Rockers
« Reply #183 on: August 07, 2012, 10:58:41 AM »
Bull.

Pity to see you give up in a semi vulgar way. But whatever.

I've made my point.  I'm not a troll.

No said let them out.  Punishment should be commensurate with the crime.

Which is?
[/quote]

Something akin to community service, perhaps even in service to the cathedral grounds.  Note, I'm not saying they nothing wrong.  I'm just saying that putting people in prison for an extended period of time for what amounts to political speech is ridiculous and dangerous.

Quote
Robbery is, by its nature, a violent act against another human being.  

Political speech is not.

And publicly offending a head of a state is, by it's nature, a crime restricted by law.

Maybe in the little totalitarian state you live in, but not in a free society.  But, again, not the point.  Putting non-violent offenders in prison with violent ones rarely amounts to any good.

It is certainly not against the law in the United States, nor, I suspect in Germany or France, to call for the resignation of an elected official.  


Quote
Call for the resignation? You ever read their lyrics? Or just hypothetyzing?

I actually have read their lyrics.  There is nothing in them that shocks me, but then my head isn't buried in the sand regarding the political and social implications of putting a bunch of teenage girls in prison for seven years for saying, "Hey, we don't like you!  Piss off!"

But I suppose an immature society will act immaturely when it comes to dealing with immaturity.

And with that, I've said my piece.  If you want to continue to argue with yourself, go right ahead, but I'm done for the moment.

Just remember this thread when the day comes when you being a Christian is offensive to the head of whatever state you choose to live in.  That day is coming, regardless of how quickly some members of the Russian church want to glorify Putin once his time on earth ends.
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Offline Pan Michał

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Re: Orthodox Believers Stand Up For Jailed Anti-Putin Punk Rockers
« Reply #184 on: August 07, 2012, 11:06:55 AM »
Something akin to community service, perhaps even in service to the cathedral grounds.  Note, I'm not saying they nothing wrong.  I'm just saying that putting people in prison for an extended period of time for what amounts to political speech is ridiculous and dangerous.

For you it's political speech. For the Russians it was not.

Putting someone who stole a wallet to jail is also ridiculous and dangerous. Gouvernement pays the victim money (or not), and thief goes to jail. Yet we do it.

Maybe in the little totalitarian state you live in, but not in a free society.  But, again, not the point.  Putting non-violent offenders in prison with violent ones rarely amounts to any good.

Non violent pocket robbers could agree, too.


I actually have read their lyrics.  There is nothing in them that shocks me, but then my head isn't buried in the sand regarding the political and social implications of putting a bunch of teenage girls in prison for seven years for saying, "Hey, we don't like you!  Piss off!"

So I understand that calling a patriarch "b*tch" is also political manifest and should not be persecuted, or just by social works, at best?


But I suppose an immature society will act immaturely when it comes to dealing with immaturity.

Funny. You defend judged girls, yet you judge millions of people.

And with that, I've said my piece.  If you want to continue to argue with yourself, go right ahead, but I'm done for the moment.

Just remember this thread when the day comes when you being a Christian is offensive to the head of whatever state you choose to live in.  That day is coming, regardless of how quickly some members of the Russian church want to glorify Putin once his time on earth ends.

Maybe in the little totalitarian state of mind you live in, but not in a free society.

End from my side, cause it's pointless.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2012, 11:07:32 AM by Pan Michał »

Offline serb1389

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Re: Orthodox Believers Stand Up For Jailed Anti-Putin Punk Rockers
« Reply #185 on: August 07, 2012, 04:05:33 PM »
Do you all think that it's obligatory of Orthodox Christians to stand up to what they see as political wrongs?  Or even what they PERCEIVE as moral wrongs? 

Maybe that's a question for another thread...but it seems to me to be the main question out of the OP. 
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Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Orthodox Believers Stand Up For Jailed Anti-Putin Punk Rockers
« Reply #186 on: August 07, 2012, 05:00:34 PM »
The've break the law in the most cynical way, using what's sacred for most of the Russians to fight Putin
They performed illegally at a distillery?
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Offline Punch

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Re: Orthodox Believers Stand Up For Jailed Anti-Putin Punk Rockers
« Reply #187 on: August 07, 2012, 06:27:48 PM »
A possible 7 year prison sentence is passionless?

Only if it is served at Black Dolphin.

I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

Offline Schultz

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Re: Orthodox Believers Stand Up For Jailed Anti-Putin Punk Rockers
« Reply #188 on: August 07, 2012, 06:45:02 PM »
A possible 7 year prison sentence is passionless?

Only if it is served at Black Dolphin.



That's where all people who dare to speak ill of the head of state should be sent.
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Offline Gunnarr

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Re: Orthodox Believers Stand Up For Jailed Anti-Putin Punk Rockers
« Reply #189 on: August 07, 2012, 07:44:02 PM »
IT WILL NOT EVEN BE 7 YEARS!

Prosecutors are asking for three years in jail.

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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Orthodox Believers Stand Up For Jailed Anti-Putin Punk Rockers
« Reply #190 on: August 07, 2012, 08:04:46 PM »
IT WILL NOT EVEN BE 7 YEARS!

Prosecutors are asking for three years in jail.



Ridiculous.
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Offline Alpo

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Re: Orthodox Believers Stand Up For Jailed Anti-Putin Punk Rockers
« Reply #191 on: August 08, 2012, 12:45:38 AM »
He added that he hoped the court makes "the right decision."



A nice gesture from Putin though.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2012, 12:46:18 AM by Alpo »

Offline Vladik

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Members Of Female Punk Band PUSSY RIOT On Trial For Church Protest
« Reply #192 on: August 08, 2012, 02:01:28 AM »
MOSCOW - At the opening of their trial on charges of inciting religious hatred, three young women who performed a crude anti-Putin song on the altar of the Cathedral of Christ the Savior said on Monday that they were prepared to take responsibility for ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wQSzPx7Nhg

Offline Dalibor

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Re: Orthodox Believers Stand Up For Jailed Anti-Putin Punk Rockers
« Reply #193 on: August 08, 2012, 08:39:05 AM »
It is clear that some people here are outraged not so much by heavy sentence for sacrilege but because Pussy Riot’s anti Putin propaganda has been cut short. They see that as a personal loss and attack on them since they have animosity towards Russia and ROC. That is what really bothers people here, political reasons. Had ‘Pussy Riot’ been protesting in temple against any other non political issue it would not have created such outrage in the West for this heavy sentencing.

Offline vamrat

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Re: Orthodox Believers Stand Up For Jailed Anti-Putin Punk Rockers
« Reply #194 on: August 08, 2012, 09:31:49 AM »
A possible 7 year prison sentence is passionless?

Only if it is served at Black Dolphin.



That's where all people who dare to speak ill of the head of state should be sent.

If that head of state happens to be that most beneficent Emperor of Mankind, then yes.


Does anyone have any pictures of these Puss Riot meisies?  Are they at least hot?
« Last Edit: August 08, 2012, 09:33:07 AM by vamrat »
Das ist des Jägers Ehrenschild, daß er beschützt und hegt sein Wild, weidmännisch jagt, wie sich’s gehört, den Schöpfer im Geschöpfe ehrt.

Offline vamrat

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Re: Orthodox Believers Stand Up For Jailed Anti-Putin Punk Rockers
« Reply #195 on: August 08, 2012, 09:34:37 AM »
Do you all think that it's obligatory of Orthodox Christians to stand up to what they see as political wrongs?  Or even what they PERCEIVE as moral wrongs? 

Maybe that's a question for another thread...but it seems to me to be the main question out of the OP. 

Probably is a question for another thread, and some interesting answers we would see.
Das ist des Jägers Ehrenschild, daß er beschützt und hegt sein Wild, weidmännisch jagt, wie sich’s gehört, den Schöpfer im Geschöpfe ehrt.

Offline Schultz

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Re: Orthodox Believers Stand Up For Jailed Anti-Putin Punk Rockers
« Reply #196 on: August 08, 2012, 09:35:44 AM »
It is clear that some people here are outraged not so much by heavy sentence for sacrilege but because Pussy Riot’s anti Putin propaganda has been cut short. They see that as a personal loss and attack on them since they have animosity towards Russia and ROC. That is what really bothers people here, political reasons. Had ‘Pussy Riot’ been protesting in temple against any other non political issue it would not have created such outrage in the West for this heavy sentencing.

If Pussy Riot had not been protesting against Putin, the prosecution would not be looking for heavy sentencing.

You're damned right the outrage is because a bunch of girls are being sent to prison for non-violently speaking out against a government they find offensive and dangerous to their country.

Stalinism is alive and well in Russia and I weep for her future.
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Offline ozgeorge

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Re: Orthodox Believers Stand Up For Jailed Anti-Putin Punk Rockers
« Reply #197 on: August 08, 2012, 10:08:26 AM »
Russian President Vladimir Putin is asking a court to show leniency for three members of the punk rock band Pussy Riot, who are on trial in Moscow on hooliganism charges.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/03/world/europe/russia-pussy-riot-trial/index.html

While Putin criticized their performance, he said Thursday, "Still, I do not think they should be judged too harshly for that," RIA Novosti reported. He added that he hoped the court makes "the right decision."

This shows a noble spirit on Putin's part. And for the record, I  think the members of the band also show a noble spirit with their statement in which they acknowledge they may have made an ethical mistake and apologise for any offence:

http://freepussyriot.org/content/art-and-human-manifesto-nadia-tolokonikovoy


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Offline Dalibor

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Re: Orthodox Believers Stand Up For Jailed Anti-Putin Punk Rockers
« Reply #198 on: August 08, 2012, 10:54:21 AM »


If Pussy Riot had not been protesting against Putin, the prosecution would not be looking for heavy sentencing.


That is a biased statement.



You're damned right the outrage is because a bunch of girls are being sent to prison for non-violently speaking out against a government they find offensive and dangerous to their country.

Stalinism is alive and well in Russia and I weep for her future.


Please butt out of Russia’s internal affairs and weep for your own country. You have so much garbage in your own country to weep and be outraged for your whole life. Wherever your country meddled in there is a war and destruction. Russia is a beacon of hope against your tyranny.


Offline Schultz

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Re: Orthodox Believers Stand Up For Jailed Anti-Putin Punk Rockers
« Reply #199 on: August 08, 2012, 11:35:47 AM »


If Pussy Riot had not been protesting against Putin, the prosecution would not be looking for heavy sentencing.


That is a biased statement.

No, it's not.  The only reason these girls are being prosecuted to the extent that they are is because they are speaking out against the government in general and Putin in particular. 

Quote

You're damned right the outrage is because a bunch of girls are being sent to prison for non-violently speaking out against a government they find offensive and dangerous to their country.

Stalinism is alive and well in Russia and I weep for her future.


Please butt out of Russia’s internal affairs and weep for your own country. You have so much garbage in your own country to weep and be outraged for your whole life. Wherever your country meddled in there is a war and destruction. Russia is a beacon of hope against your tyranny.
[/quote]

I weep for my country daily.  I also weep for the oppressed everywhere no matter their nationality or ethnicity. 
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Offline jewish voice

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Re: Orthodox Believers Stand Up For Jailed Anti-Putin Punk Rockers
« Reply #200 on: August 08, 2012, 11:44:10 AM »


If Pussy Riot had not been protesting against Putin, the prosecution would not be looking for heavy sentencing.


That is a biased statement.



You're damned right the outrage is because a bunch of girls are being sent to prison for non-violently speaking out against a government they find offensive and dangerous to their country.

Stalinism is alive and well in Russia and I weep for her future.


Please butt out of Russia’s internal affairs and weep for your own country. You have so much garbage in your own country to weep and be outraged for your whole life. Wherever your country meddled in there is a war and destruction. Russia is a beacon of hope against your tyranny.


You forgot your LOL at the end of your statement when you do that people think your being serious.
 
Anyways back on to the topic this is just silly to try and give them 3  years or 7 years is way over board. Thats what you get when you play with state ran churches. Orthodoxy in Russia= Orthodox Judaism in Israel pushing the little people around for their own greed and power all in the name of G-d and telling you it's for your own safety.  
« Last Edit: August 08, 2012, 11:44:34 AM by jewish voice »

Offline Νεκτάριος

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Re: Orthodox Believers Stand Up For Jailed Anti-Putin Punk Rockers
« Reply #201 on: August 08, 2012, 01:11:12 PM »
Please butt out of Russia’s internal affairs and weep for your own country. You have so much garbage in your own country to weep and be outraged for your whole life. Wherever your country meddled in there is a war and destruction. Russia is a beacon of hope against your tyranny.

Well, I live within the canonical territory of the MP so this is ostensibly my internal affair. 

I think it is sad that the MP is using its cozy relationship with the Kremlin to silence dissent while bestowing its approbation on the Kremlin in a sort of symbiotic relationship - essentially the exact same relationship the MP has with the late Russian Empire.  Hopefully this time around people will simply ignore the Orthodox Church rather than shooting priests and blowing up churches. 

Offline stanley123

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Re: Orthodox Believers Stand Up For Jailed Anti-Putin Punk Rockers
« Reply #202 on: August 08, 2012, 02:17:09 PM »
Please butt out of Russia’s internal affairs and weep for your own country. You have so much garbage in your own country to weep and be outraged for your whole life. Wherever your country meddled in there is a war and destruction. Russia is a beacon of hope against your tyranny.
I have to agree with this to some extent. Where is the protest in the USA when a hungry man is sentenced to life in prison for stealing a slice of pizza?

Offline Pan Michał

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Hi all, I've decided to post again, because I feel it is really needed, from my side at least. I wanted to write my apologies to everyone, and especially Schultz, for acting like a jerk. Stating one’s own opinions and attacks ad personam are completely different matters.

My original point was only to write about the other side of the coin, not say that those are things that I agree with, but somewhere I’ve lost a distance between this and myself and took it too seriously, which should not ever happen. In the outcome it looked like I am cheering with joy looking at someone going to jail, which is absolutely not the case, just wanted to state that what they did was illegal, or at least very unwise, in Russia and they should (and did) be ready for the consequences. But instead of stopping on this conclusion, I’ve decided to add my few cents of so-called “opinion”, thus later felt like being attacked and just attacked back, with passion but without thinking of what am I posting. So I’ve turned out to be not less unwise than those girls, in a way. I could find some excuses as to why I’ve been so nervous about it, and blame the “bad day” and so forth, but my lack of distance was the only reason, so I am to blame.

In my homeland, a man brought before court for trampling the monstrance with the Body of Christ, was set free, after returning money for destroyed monstrance, because the advocate and jury agreed on that if God Himself is feeling offended, He should carry out the justice Himself. And it was in the XVI century, when all of Europe burned with religious wars and trials. With this I would want to end this on my side, and post again my apologies.

Again, everyone and Schultz especially, I am sorry for my unhealthy behavior.

Offline Punch

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Re: Orthodox Believers Stand Up For Jailed Anti-Putin Punk Rockers
« Reply #204 on: August 08, 2012, 11:01:57 PM »


If Pussy Riot had not been protesting against Putin, the prosecution would not be looking for heavy sentencing.


That is a biased statement.



You're damned right the outrage is because a bunch of girls are being sent to prison for non-violently speaking out against a government they find offensive and dangerous to their country.

Stalinism is alive and well in Russia and I weep for her future.


Please butt out of Russia’s internal affairs and weep for your own country. You have so much garbage in your own country to weep and be outraged for your whole life. Wherever your country meddled in there is a war and destruction. Russia is a beacon of hope against your tyranny.



Amen, amen, and amen.  While we weep for a bunch of radicals, how many women and children do our soldiers continue to kill.  What is their sentence?
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Orthodox Believers Stand Up For Jailed Anti-Putin Punk Rockers
« Reply #205 on: August 09, 2012, 01:56:33 AM »
Russia is a beacon of hope against your tyranny.
Russia will fall like the rest of the princes of this world.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2012, 01:56:55 AM by NicholasMyra »
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Offline Shiny

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Re: Orthodox Believers Stand Up For Jailed Anti-Putin Punk Rockers
« Reply #206 on: August 09, 2012, 01:59:09 AM »
Please butt out of Russia’s internal affairs and weep for your own country. You have so much garbage in your own country to weep and be outraged for your whole life. Wherever your country meddled in there is a war and destruction. Russia is a beacon of hope against your tyranny.

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Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Orthodox Believers Stand Up For Jailed Anti-Putin Punk Rockers
« Reply #207 on: August 09, 2012, 02:00:20 AM »
Where is the protest in the USA when a hungry man is sentenced to life in prison for stealing a slice of pizza?

What
Quote from: Orthonorm
if Christ does and says x. And someone else does and says not x and you are ever in doubt, follow Christ.

Πλούσιοι επτώχευσαν και επείνασαν
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Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Orthodox Believers Stand Up For Jailed Anti-Putin Punk Rockers
« Reply #208 on: August 09, 2012, 02:00:36 AM »
Please butt out of Russia’s internal affairs and weep for your own country. You have so much garbage in your own country to weep and be outraged for your whole life. Wherever your country meddled in there is a war and destruction. Russia is a beacon of hope against your tyranny.

POTY

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Dude really Achronos?
Quote from: Orthonorm
if Christ does and says x. And someone else does and says not x and you are ever in doubt, follow Christ.

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Οιδε εκζητούντες τον Κύριον
Ουκ ελαττωθήσονται παντός αγαθού

Offline stanley123

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Re: Orthodox Believers Stand Up For Jailed Anti-Putin Punk Rockers
« Reply #209 on: August 09, 2012, 03:19:41 AM »
Where is the protest in the USA when a hungry man is sentenced to life in prison for stealing a slice of pizza?

What
The hungry American may get only 25 years for stealing a slice of pizza. But it is not sure. The punishment is from 25 years to life in prison for a hungry American who stole a slice of pizza in the USA. And where is the protest? People only want to protest against Russia and call Russia the number one geopolitical enemy of the USA as Romney has. Let's have a photo of Romney demonizing Russia as he has, not so much Obama who I believe has shown good intentions toward Russia.

Online Justin Kissel

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Re: Orthodox Believers Stand Up For Jailed Anti-Putin Punk Rockers
« Reply #210 on: August 09, 2012, 03:30:07 AM »
People only want to protest against Russia and call Russia the number one geopolitical enemy of the USA as Romney has. Let's have a photo of Romney demonizing Russia as he has, not so much Obama who I believe has shown good intentions toward Russia.

I just made a pic for this, but realised I can't post it because it's not in politics.  >:(
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Offline Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)

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Hi all, I've decided to post again, because I feel it is really needed, from my side at least. I wanted to write my apologies to everyone, and especially Schultz, for acting like a jerk. Stating one’s own opinions and attacks ad personam are completely different matters.

My original point was only to write about the other side of the coin, not say that those are things that I agree with, but somewhere I’ve lost a distance between this and myself and took it too seriously, which should not ever happen. In the outcome it looked like I am cheering with joy looking at someone going to jail, which is absolutely not the case, just wanted to state that what they did was illegal, or at least very unwise, in Russia and they should (and did) be ready for the consequences. But instead of stopping on this conclusion, I’ve decided to add my few cents of so-called “opinion”, thus later felt like being attacked and just attacked back, with passion but without thinking of what am I posting. So I’ve turned out to be not less unwise than those girls, in a way. I could find some excuses as to why I’ve been so nervous about it, and blame the “bad day” and so forth, but my lack of distance was the only reason, so I am to blame.

In my homeland, a man brought before court for trampling the monstrance with the Body of Christ, was set free, after returning money for destroyed monstrance, because the advocate and jury agreed on that if God Himself is feeling offended, He should carry out the justice Himself. And it was in the XVI century, when all of Europe burned with religious wars and trials. With this I would want to end this on my side, and post again my apologies.

Again, everyone and Schultz especially, I am sorry for my unhealthy behavior.

Thank you Pan Michael and welcome back.

Offline Kerdy

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Personally, I believe anyone who disgraces a religious building or place to make a political statement should be charged.  There are a limitless amount of other ways available rather than parading around like a bunch of morons inside a church, synagogue, or the like.  To obtain respect, it must first be given.

Offline Kerdy

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Reading through all the posts it seems people forget these women knew the consequences of their actions, but did their deed regardless.  Now they are seeking sympathy.  It doesn't matter if we think their sentence is too harsh, these are the laws in Russia.  They aren't confused tourists. 

Offline mike

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Does anyone have any pictures of these Puss Riot meisies?  Are they at least hot?

How boorishly...

Offline Νεκτάριος

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Reading through all the posts it seems people forget these women knew the consequences of their actions, but did their deed regardless.  Now they are seeking sympathy.  It doesn't matter if we think their sentence is too harsh, these are the laws in Russia.  They aren't confused tourists. 

In Russia there isn't law in the sense that there is in the West.  Rule of law simply doesn't exist.  As has been mentioned before, the idea of charging them with hooliganism is absurd and likely illegal.  But as the courts systems aren't independent it is hard to predict these sorts of matters.  There are a lot of things going around the Russian internet about people who have committed real crimes, I mean with actual victims left in severe physical anguish or dead, that have gotten off with less than seven years. 

Offline Νεκτάριος

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The latest from Holy Rus':

An Orthodox priest who endorses the jailing of the Pussy Riot group of Russian activists has crashed a BMW Z4 roadster with diplomatic licence plates into two cars in Moscow, raising new questions about the lifestyle of the country's clergy.

Alexei Podobedov – also known as Igumen Timofei – collided with the vehicles on the evening of July 31, but details of the accident only emerged this week.

The BMW sports car the priest was driving had Maltese diplomatic number plates and he told police it belonged to a friend. Reports that Mr Podobedov, 38, was inebriated, were strenuously denied by his lawyer.

Offline Kerdy

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The latest from Holy Rus':

An Orthodox priest who endorses the jailing of the Pussy Riot group of Russian activists has crashed a BMW Z4 roadster with diplomatic licence plates into two cars in Moscow, raising new questions about the lifestyle of the country's clergy.

Alexei Podobedov – also known as Igumen Timofei – collided with the vehicles on the evening of July 31, but details of the accident only emerged this week.

The BMW sports car the priest was driving had Maltese diplomatic number plates and he told police it belonged to a friend. Reports that Mr Podobedov, 38, was inebriated, were strenuously denied by his lawyer.
Unrelated.  These two incidents have nothing to do with one another.  Also, without all the information available, its a bit premature to post this with any expectation of guilt for more than poor driving.

Offline serb1389

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The latest from Holy Rus':

An Orthodox priest who endorses the jailing of the Pussy Riot group of Russian activists has crashed a BMW Z4 roadster with diplomatic licence plates into two cars in Moscow, raising new questions about the lifestyle of the country's clergy.

Alexei Podobedov – also known as Igumen Timofei – collided with the vehicles on the evening of July 31, but details of the accident only emerged this week.

The BMW sports car the priest was driving had Maltese diplomatic number plates and he told police it belonged to a friend. Reports that Mr Podobedov, 38, was inebriated, were strenuously denied by his lawyer.
Unrelated.  These two incidents have nothing to do with one another.  Also, without all the information available, its a bit premature to post this with any expectation of guilt for more than poor driving.

You know...at first I thought the same thing, but afterwards I realized that this priest is against the Pussy Riot girls, has been arrested for at the very least destructive driving.  So when the church says that these girls are a danger to society...what does that make this priest then? 
I got nothing.
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March 27th and May 30th 2010 were my Ordination dates, please forgive everything before that

Offline Kerdy

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The latest from Holy Rus':

An Orthodox priest who endorses the jailing of the Pussy Riot group of Russian activists has crashed a BMW Z4 roadster with diplomatic licence plates into two cars in Moscow, raising new questions about the lifestyle of the country's clergy.

Alexei Podobedov – also known as Igumen Timofei – collided with the vehicles on the evening of July 31, but details of the accident only emerged this week.

The BMW sports car the priest was driving had Maltese diplomatic number plates and he told police it belonged to a friend. Reports that Mr Podobedov, 38, was inebriated, were strenuously denied by his lawyer.
Unrelated.  These two incidents have nothing to do with one another.  Also, without all the information available, its a bit premature to post this with any expectation of guilt for more than poor driving.

You know...at first I thought the same thing, but afterwards I realized that this priest is against the Pussy Riot girls, has been arrested for at the very least destructive driving.  So when the church says that these girls are a danger to society...what does that make this priest then?  
Someone who needs to take the bus.

Don't get me wrong, if he broke a law he should be punished, but we don't know that yet.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2012, 05:38:01 PM by Kerdy »

Offline Νεκτάριος

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The latest from Holy Rus':

An Orthodox priest who endorses the jailing of the Pussy Riot group of Russian activists has crashed a BMW Z4 roadster with diplomatic licence plates into two cars in Moscow, raising new questions about the lifestyle of the country's clergy.

Alexei Podobedov – also known as Igumen Timofei – collided with the vehicles on the evening of July 31, but details of the accident only emerged this week.

The BMW sports car the priest was driving had Maltese diplomatic number plates and he told police it belonged to a friend. Reports that Mr Podobedov, 38, was inebriated, were strenuously denied by his lawyer.
Unrelated.  These two incidents have nothing to do with one another.  Also, without all the information available, its a bit premature to post this with any expectation of guilt for more than poor driving.

You know...at first I thought the same thing, but afterwards I realized that this priest is against the Pussy Riot girls, has been arrested for at the very least destructive driving.  So when the church says that these girls are a danger to society...what does that make this priest then? 

Right, this man is an actual danger to society and very likely had some sort of illegal registration on this car.  For well-connected people this is common and lets the traffic police know that they shouldn't go after such cars for bribes (instead the average Russian making a few hundred dollars a months should be preyed upon).  The issue gets at the moral bankruptcy of the MP.  A few dissidents who committed a relatively innocuous offense are likely going to spend many years in jail with the the Patriarch cheering on this decision of the court and further calling for no mercy to be shown to these girls.  On the other hand the inner circle of the MP live a criminal lifestyle and nothing is done about it.  

Offline Kerdy

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The latest from Holy Rus':

An Orthodox priest who endorses the jailing of the Pussy Riot group of Russian activists has crashed a BMW Z4 roadster with diplomatic licence plates into two cars in Moscow, raising new questions about the lifestyle of the country's clergy.

Alexei Podobedov – also known as Igumen Timofei – collided with the vehicles on the evening of July 31, but details of the accident only emerged this week.

The BMW sports car the priest was driving had Maltese diplomatic number plates and he told police it belonged to a friend. Reports that Mr Podobedov, 38, was inebriated, were strenuously denied by his lawyer.
Unrelated.  These two incidents have nothing to do with one another.  Also, without all the information available, its a bit premature to post this with any expectation of guilt for more than poor driving.

You know...at first I thought the same thing, but afterwards I realized that this priest is against the Pussy Riot girls, has been arrested for at the very least destructive driving.  So when the church says that these girls are a danger to society...what does that make this priest then? 

Right, this man is an actual danger to society and very likely had some sort of illegal registration on this car.  For well-connected people this is common and lets the traffic police know that they shouldn't go after such cars for bribes (instead the average Russian making a few hundred dollars a months should be preyed upon).  The issue gets at the moral bankruptcy of the MP.  A few dissidents who committed a relatively innocuous offense are likely going to spend many years in jail with the the Patriarch cheering on this decision of the court and further calling for no mercy to be shown to these girls.  On the other hand the inner circle of the MP live a criminal lifestyle and nothing is done about it.  
Even if all of your guessing is remotely accurate, these are still separate incidents.

Offline Νεκτάριος

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The latest from Holy Rus':

An Orthodox priest who endorses the jailing of the Pussy Riot group of Russian activists has crashed a BMW Z4 roadster with diplomatic licence plates into two cars in Moscow, raising new questions about the lifestyle of the country's clergy.

Alexei Podobedov – also known as Igumen Timofei – collided with the vehicles on the evening of July 31, but details of the accident only emerged this week.

The BMW sports car the priest was driving had Maltese diplomatic number plates and he told police it belonged to a friend. Reports that Mr Podobedov, 38, was inebriated, were strenuously denied by his lawyer.
Unrelated.  These two incidents have nothing to do with one another.  Also, without all the information available, its a bit premature to post this with any expectation of guilt for more than poor driving.

You know...at first I thought the same thing, but afterwards I realized that this priest is against the Pussy Riot girls, has been arrested for at the very least destructive driving.  So when the church says that these girls are a danger to society...what does that make this priest then? 

Right, this man is an actual danger to society and very likely had some sort of illegal registration on this car.  For well-connected people this is common and lets the traffic police know that they shouldn't go after such cars for bribes (instead the average Russian making a few hundred dollars a months should be preyed upon).  The issue gets at the moral bankruptcy of the MP.  A few dissidents who committed a relatively innocuous offense are likely going to spend many years in jail with the the Patriarch cheering on this decision of the court and further calling for no mercy to be shown to these girls.  On the other hand the inner circle of the MP live a criminal lifestyle and nothing is done about it.  
Even if all of your guessing is remotely accurate, these are still separate incidents.

No they aren't - when you public call for no mercy to be shown to people and then are involved in criminal acts yourself there is a problem. 

Offline Kerdy

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The latest from Holy Rus':

An Orthodox priest who endorses the jailing of the Pussy Riot group of Russian activists has crashed a BMW Z4 roadster with diplomatic licence plates into two cars in Moscow, raising new questions about the lifestyle of the country's clergy.

Alexei Podobedov – also known as Igumen Timofei – collided with the vehicles on the evening of July 31, but details of the accident only emerged this week.

The BMW sports car the priest was driving had Maltese diplomatic number plates and he told police it belonged to a friend. Reports that Mr Podobedov, 38, was inebriated, were strenuously denied by his lawyer.
Unrelated.  These two incidents have nothing to do with one another.  Also, without all the information available, its a bit premature to post this with any expectation of guilt for more than poor driving.

You know...at first I thought the same thing, but afterwards I realized that this priest is against the Pussy Riot girls, has been arrested for at the very least destructive driving.  So when the church says that these girls are a danger to society...what does that make this priest then? 

Right, this man is an actual danger to society and very likely had some sort of illegal registration on this car.  For well-connected people this is common and lets the traffic police know that they shouldn't go after such cars for bribes (instead the average Russian making a few hundred dollars a months should be preyed upon).  The issue gets at the moral bankruptcy of the MP.  A few dissidents who committed a relatively innocuous offense are likely going to spend many years in jail with the the Patriarch cheering on this decision of the court and further calling for no mercy to be shown to these girls.  On the other hand the inner circle of the MP live a criminal lifestyle and nothing is done about it.  
Even if all of your guessing is remotely accurate, these are still separate incidents.

No they aren't - when you public call for no mercy to be shown to people and then are involved in criminal acts yourself there is a problem. 
I didn't say there was no problem, I said they are unrelated, legally.  If a man is accused of cheating on his wife and her brother spray paints his car saying he is having an affair, these are two separate incidents.  One, he's a cheating scumbag.  Two, her brother damaged private property.  Each must be handled individually.

Offline Νεκτάριος

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The latest from Holy Rus':

An Orthodox priest who endorses the jailing of the Pussy Riot group of Russian activists has crashed a BMW Z4 roadster with diplomatic licence plates into two cars in Moscow, raising new questions about the lifestyle of the country's clergy.

Alexei Podobedov – also known as Igumen Timofei – collided with the vehicles on the evening of July 31, but details of the accident only emerged this week.

The BMW sports car the priest was driving had Maltese diplomatic number plates and he told police it belonged to a friend. Reports that Mr Podobedov, 38, was inebriated, were strenuously denied by his lawyer.
Unrelated.  These two incidents have nothing to do with one another.  Also, without all the information available, its a bit premature to post this with any expectation of guilt for more than poor driving.

You know...at first I thought the same thing, but afterwards I realized that this priest is against the Pussy Riot girls, has been arrested for at the very least destructive driving.  So when the church says that these girls are a danger to society...what does that make this priest then? 

Right, this man is an actual danger to society and very likely had some sort of illegal registration on this car.  For well-connected people this is common and lets the traffic police know that they shouldn't go after such cars for bribes (instead the average Russian making a few hundred dollars a months should be preyed upon).  The issue gets at the moral bankruptcy of the MP.  A few dissidents who committed a relatively innocuous offense are likely going to spend many years in jail with the the Patriarch cheering on this decision of the court and further calling for no mercy to be shown to these girls.  On the other hand the inner circle of the MP live a criminal lifestyle and nothing is done about it.  
Even if all of your guessing is remotely accurate, these are still separate incidents.

No they aren't - when you public call for no mercy to be shown to people and then are involved in criminal acts yourself there is a problem. 
I didn't say there was no problem, I said they are unrelated, legally.  If a man is accused of cheating on his wife and her brother spray paints his car saying he is having an affair, these are two separate incidents.  One, he's a cheating scumbag.  Two, her brother damaged private property.  Each must be handled individually.

I'm seeing this in the larger picture: the inner circle of the MP live flashy lives devoid of any external asceticism and in some cases are outright morally dubious.  Any criticism of this within Russian society is blunted and called anti-Christian.  Yet the MP takes his political opponents to court and ruins them.  Or in the case of his neighbor (in an apartment this is also of questionable legality) took him to court, said to the press "it is not possible to forgive" and demanded hundreds of thousands of rubles over dust.  It might seem strange to someone outside of this society, but this case is just yet another example of the "Church" living like oligarchs by one standard, and the rest us living by a different, cruel standard.