OrthodoxChristianity.net
October 20, 2014, 09:27:05 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: God and Jesus  (Read 318 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
andrewlya
Elder
*****
Online Online

Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: Christianity is not a religion,it is a relationship with God
Posts: 496


Christian all my life and still learning


« on: August 27, 2013, 01:12:12 PM »

Hi all,
what are your thoughts about this.


I have recently tried to debate with somebody who argued with me that we believe in 3 Gods, which we of course don't. I said it is one God but in 3 persons.
Gave an example, a triangle is one item but has 3 angles.

Say if you were a beginner on the path of Christianity, how can you logically believe in the Holy Trinity...

Firstly, at the beginning of the OT when God was creating the Universe & there was no mention of Him having a Son.

Secondly, in 10 Commandments it says “You shall have no other gods before Me". So having Jesus as God makes another God as Father and Son are not the same Beings/Deities.

God the Creator is One as otherwise in the Commandment it would have stated "You shall have no other gods before me and my Son" or something between those lines. So, to someone new to Christianity reading these verses would indicate that God is One and no body else is God besides Him.

 Thirdly, in the NT Jesus never said "I am God" or "worship me".

So, how do you overcome those questions?

Thank you very much!
Logged

I believe in one God the Father and His Son the Messiah, the Savior of all the people
TheTrisagion
Armed Feline rider of Flaming Unicorns
Warned
Merarches
***********
Online Online

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 8,669



« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2013, 01:37:29 PM »

If I could understand the Trinity logically, I think I would be God Himself.  We are humans.  We are one essence with one person.  God is one essence with three persons.  It would be like a two dimensional entity trying to understand 3 dimensions.

The Church has ALWAYS believed that Jesus was God.  Did the Apostles just misunderstand Jesus' claims?  Did those that crucify Him misunderstand His claims to divinity?  If He really did not claim to be God, why didn't He just say: "Hey folks, I think you misunderstood what I was trying to tell you.  I'm just a PROPHET of God, not God!  Let's just forget this whole crucifixion thing and go home.  Passover meal at my house, who's with me?"
Logged

Have you considered the possibility that your face is an ad hominem?
Somebody just went all Jack Chick up in here.
Theophilos78
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: pro-Israeli Zionist Apostolic Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Adonai Yeshua
Posts: 2,043



« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2013, 01:40:06 PM »


Firstly, at the beginning of the OT when God was creating the Universe & there was no mention of Him having a Son.

There is a reference to God's Word, which is the Son.

Secondly, in 10 Commandments it says “You shall have no other gods before Me". So having Jesus as God makes another God as Father and Son are not the same Beings/Deities.

If we say that "Father and Son are not the same Beings/Deities", this means we worship three gods. The Father and the Son are distinct persons only, not different beings.

God the Creator is One as otherwise in the Commandment it would have stated "You shall have no other gods before me and my Son" or something between those lines. So, to someone new to Christianity reading these verses would indicate that God is One and no body else is God besides Him. 

What if this statement belongs to the Triune God?

Thirdly, in the NT Jesus never said "I am God" or "worship me".

Did He have to say that exactly in that way? He said "I AM", "The Father and I are ONE", "I am the good shepherd", "I am the bridegroom", all of which show that He is divine.

So, how do you overcome those questions?

Read these articles: http://answering-islam.org/Shamoun/index.htm
Logged

Longing for Heavenly Jerusalem
andrewlya
Elder
*****
Online Online

Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: Christianity is not a religion,it is a relationship with God
Posts: 496


Christian all my life and still learning


« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2013, 05:31:44 PM »


Firstly, at the beginning of the OT when God was creating the Universe & there was no mention of Him having a Son.

There is a reference to God's Word, which is the Son.

Secondly, in 10 Commandments it says “You shall have no other gods before Me". So having Jesus as God makes another God as Father and Son are not the same Beings/Deities.

If we say that "Father and Son are not the same Beings/Deities", this means we worship three gods. The Father and the Son are distinct persons only, not different beings.

God the Creator is One as otherwise in the Commandment it would have stated "You shall have no other gods before me and my Son" or something between those lines. So, to someone new to Christianity reading these verses would indicate that God is One and no body else is God besides Him. 

What if this statement belongs to the Triune God?

Thirdly, in the NT Jesus never said "I am God" or "worship me".

Did He have to say that exactly in that way? He said "I AM", "The Father and I are ONE", "I am the good shepherd", "I am the bridegroom", all of which show that He is divine.

So, how do you overcome those questions?

Read these articles: http://answering-islam.org/Shamoun/index.htm


How do we know that God's Word is the Son?

How does a non Christian know that the Command of Oneness of God  is Triune if there is no mention if Triune or Trinity?
Logged

I believe in one God the Father and His Son the Messiah, the Savior of all the people
Theophilos78
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: pro-Israeli Zionist Apostolic Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Adonai Yeshua
Posts: 2,043



« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2013, 06:33:40 PM »


How do we know that God's Word is the Son?

with the help of he books of Wisdom in the Tanakh and the first verse of John1:1

How does a non Christian know that the Command of Oneness of God  is Triune if there is no mention if Triune or Trinity?

In the light of the New Testament!

This article may help: http://www.answering-islam.org/authors/rogers/genesis_1_26_trinitarian.html

Also this: http://www.answering-islam.org/authors/rogers/ot_trinity.html
Logged

Longing for Heavenly Jerusalem
Nikolaos Greek
Last among equals
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church of Greece
Posts: 203



« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2013, 07:55:38 AM »

A. God revealed not Himself to be three persons to Moses because Jews may had fall in polytheism. Adam and Eve knew. If you search the ancient egyptians glorified in the ebgin three gods and the ancient greek said in the ebgin there were three gods. From mouth to mouth, from Adam through Noah the truth and later it began to change among places. Also there are verses in old tastement when God refers to Him in plural like when  He decided to create men or at the time of the tower of babel. Also He appeared to Abraam as three angels.
B. God is one. Like the brick consist of earth,fire and water but is one thing so it's God.
C. The Son/Word/Jesus/Chirst was humble. Yet when He was asked He answered You said or I am as in Mark 14:62. There are many references in the Bible. Now if you don't believe the Bible...
Logged

God is Love.
Ό Θεός ἀγάπη ἐστί.
There is no luck, there is no fate. There are always two ways. One is God's and one is devil's. And in each step of your life you have to pick one, always.
lasher
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Faith: Searching
Posts: 12


« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2013, 09:58:16 AM »

Hi all,
what are your thoughts about this.


I have recently tried to debate with somebody who argued with me that we believe in 3 Gods, which we of course don't. I said it is one God but in 3 persons.
Gave an example, a triangle is one item but has 3 angles.

Say if you were a beginner on the path of Christianity, how can you logically believe in the Holy Trinity...

Firstly, at the beginning of the OT when God was creating the Universe & there was no mention of Him having a Son.

Secondly, in 10 Commandments it says “You shall have no other gods before Me". So having Jesus as God makes another God as Father and Son are not the same Beings/Deities.

God the Creator is One as otherwise in the Commandment it would have stated "You shall have no other gods before me and my Son" or something between those lines. So, to someone new to Christianity reading these verses would indicate that God is One and no body else is God besides Him.

 Thirdly, in the NT Jesus never said "I am God" or "worship me".

So, how do you overcome those questions?

Thank you very much!

As far as your third point ...


He accepted worship in multiple places in the NT. If he were not the divine son of God that would be utterly blasphemous.

Matthew 14:33 says that those who saw Jesus walk on water “worshiped Him.”

John 9:38 says that the blind man whom Jesus had healed, later confessed his belief in Jesus as the Son of God and “worshiped him.”

Matthew 28:9 says Mary Magdalene and the other women visited the empty tomb of Jesus, and the risen Christ appeared to them, “they came and held Him by the feet and worshiped Him”

Thomas confesses Jesus as his Lord and God in John 20:28

The disciples worshiped him in Luke 24:52


Over and over again Jesus accepts this worship without rebuking it. Worship in this manner is due only to God alone.
Logged
andrewlya
Elder
*****
Online Online

Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: Christianity is not a religion,it is a relationship with God
Posts: 496


Christian all my life and still learning


« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2013, 03:34:08 AM »

Thank you very much for your answers,they make sense
Logged

I believe in one God the Father and His Son the Messiah, the Savior of all the people
Tags:
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.085 seconds with 35 queries.