Author Topic: Do the Orthodox Pray to Jesus in the Eucharist?  (Read 1452 times)

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Offline Papist

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Do the Orthodox Pray to Jesus in the Eucharist?
« on: March 05, 2012, 03:19:54 PM »
Just curious. Do ya'll ever pray to Jesus in the Eucharist? Are there any liturgical prayers specifically written to be prayed to Jesus in the Eucharist?

Also, do you ever have the liturgy of the presanctified like our Byzantine Catholics do?
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Offline J Michael

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Re: Do the Orthodox Pray to Jesus in the Eucharist?
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2012, 03:33:25 PM »
Just curious. Do ya'll ever pray to Jesus in the Eucharist? Are there any liturgical prayers specifically written to be prayed to Jesus in the Eucharist?

Also, do you ever have the liturgy of the presanctified like our Byzantine Catholics do?

Pardon me for taking the liberty of answering, not being Orthodox and all,  but....

1st and 2nd Questions: see this--http://www.ocf.org/OrthodoxPage/liturgy/liturgy.html (I'm sure there are other links available, this is the first that came up).

3rd Question--The Liturgy of the Presanctified is celebrated throughout Lent, on Wednesdays.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2012, 03:33:56 PM by J Michael »
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Re: Do the Orthodox Pray to Jesus in the Eucharist?
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2012, 04:00:36 PM »
Just curious. Do ya'll ever pray to Jesus in the Eucharist? Are there any liturgical prayers specifically written to be prayed to Jesus in the Eucharist?
Yes.

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Offline J Michael

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Re: Do the Orthodox Pray to Jesus in the Eucharist?
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2012, 04:09:06 PM »
The Second Antiphon

(The designated verses from the Psalms are sung with the hymn:)

People:
    Save us, O Son of God, (who rose from the dead), to You we sing: Alleluia (3).

    Glory to the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, now and forever and to the ages of ages. Amen.

    Only begotten Son and Word of God, although immortal You humbled Yourself for our salvation, taking flesh from the holy Theotokos and ever virgin Mary and, without change, becoming man. Christ, our God, You were crucified but conquered death by death. You are one of the Holy Trinity, glorified with the Father and the Holy Spirit - save us.
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Offline Papist

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Re: Do the Orthodox Pray to Jesus in the Eucharist?
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2012, 04:46:57 PM »
The Second Antiphon

(The designated verses from the Psalms are sung with the hymn:)

People:
    Save us, O Son of God, (who rose from the dead), to You we sing: Alleluia (3).

    Glory to the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, now and forever and to the ages of ages. Amen.

    Only begotten Son and Word of God, although immortal You humbled Yourself for our salvation, taking flesh from the holy Theotokos and ever virgin Mary and, without change, becoming man. Christ, our God, You were crucified but conquered death by death. You are one of the Holy Trinity, glorified with the Father and the Holy Spirit - save us.
And these are directed to Christ in the Eucharist?
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Offline J Michael

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Re: Do the Orthodox Pray to Jesus in the Eucharist?
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2012, 04:59:47 PM »
The Second Antiphon

(The designated verses from the Psalms are sung with the hymn:)

People:
    Save us, O Son of God, (who rose from the dead), to You we sing: Alleluia (3).

    Glory to the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, now and forever and to the ages of ages. Amen.

    Only begotten Son and Word of God, although immortal You humbled Yourself for our salvation, taking flesh from the holy Theotokos and ever virgin Mary and, without change, becoming man. Christ, our God, You were crucified but conquered death by death. You are one of the Holy Trinity, glorified with the Father and the Holy Spirit - save us.
And these are directed to Christ in the Eucharist?

Maybe I've misunderstood you.  These are prayers in the Divine Liturgy, not specifically Eucharistic Prayers, if that is what you meant.  Perhaps you were referring to the Anaphora or the Communion Prayers in the DL?  Forgive me for misunderstanding.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2012, 05:03:10 PM by J Michael »
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Re: Do the Orthodox Pray to Jesus in the Eucharist?
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2012, 05:03:55 PM »
He's asking if, in the manner of Latin Eucharistic adoration, Orthodox have liturgical prayers to the Eucharistic gifts themselves.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2012, 05:04:22 PM by NicholasMyra »
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Offline J Michael

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Re: Do the Orthodox Pray to Jesus in the Eucharist?
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2012, 05:07:45 PM »
He's asking if, in the manner of Latin Eucharistic adoration, Orthodox have liturgical prayers to the Eucharistic gifts themselves.

Ohhh...... :-[.
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Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: Do the Orthodox Pray to Jesus in the Eucharist?
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2012, 05:14:08 PM »
Just curious. Do ya'll ever pray to Jesus in the Eucharist? Are there any liturgical prayers specifically written to be prayed to Jesus in the Eucharist?

Are you familiar with the Canon of Preparation for Holy Communion,
http://www.stmaryofegypt.org/prayerbook/cancomu.htm
Preparatory Prayers for holy Communion,
http://www.stmaryofegypt.org/prayerbook/praycomu.htm
and Thanksgiving Prayers for Holy Communion?
http://www.stmaryofegypt.org/prayerbook/thankshc.htm

These are as close as you are going to get.    In the East, Christ is prayed to. It seems strange to pray to one aspect of Him like the Sacred Heart, Divine Mercy, Eucharist, Holy Wounds, etc.
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Re: Do the Orthodox Pray to Jesus in the Eucharist?
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2012, 06:21:15 PM »
Just curious. Do ya'll ever pray to Jesus in the Eucharist? Are there any liturgical prayers specifically written to be prayed to Jesus in the Eucharist?

Hi Papist. I feel it would help if this question were clarified a little more.

On the most literal level, it would seem to be seeking something along the lines of the popular Catholic prayer, the Anima Christi

Quote
Soul of Christ, be my sanctification;
Body of Christ, be my salvation;
Blood of Christ, fill all my veins;
Water of Christ's side, wash out my stains;
Passion of Christ, my comfort be;
O good Jesus, listen to me;
In Thy wounds I fain would hide;
Ne'er to be parted from Thy side;
Guard me, should the foe assail me;
Call me when my life shall fail me;
Bid me come to Thee above,
With Thy saints to sing Thy love,
World without end.
Amen.

(emphasis added)
« Last Edit: March 05, 2012, 06:22:25 PM by Peter J »
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Offline Tallitot

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Re: Do the Orthodox Pray to Jesus in the Eucharist?
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2012, 06:37:00 PM »
IIRC there's a line in The Way of the Pilgrim where the narrator states that he visited a sick person and the priest brought him the reserved sacrament; he says it was 'good to pray in the presence of the Holy Gifts". Only allusion to anything akin to RC euch. devotion in the EO I remeber seeing.
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Re: Do the Orthodox Pray to Jesus in the Eucharist?
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2012, 07:04:11 PM »
Just curious. Do ya'll ever pray to Jesus in the Eucharist? Are there any liturgical prayers specifically written to be prayed to Jesus in the Eucharist?

Hi Papist. I feel it would help if this question were clarified a little more.

On the most literal level, it would seem to be seeking something along the lines of the popular Catholic prayer, the Anima Christi

Quote
Soul of Christ, be my sanctification;
Body of Christ, be my salvation;
Blood of Christ, fill all my veins;
Water of Christ's side, wash out my stains;
Passion of Christ, my comfort be;
O good Jesus, listen to me;
In Thy wounds I fain would hide;
Ne'er to be parted from Thy side;
Guard me, should the foe assail me;
Call me when my life shall fail me;
Bid me come to Thee above,
With Thy saints to sing Thy love,
World without end.
Amen.

(emphasis added)

I used to pray that every week before Mass. I still like it.   :)

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Re: Do the Orthodox Pray to Jesus in the Eucharist?
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2012, 07:07:40 PM »
IIRC there's a line in The Way of the Pilgrim where the narrator states that he visited a sick person and the priest brought him the reserved sacrament; he says it was 'good to pray in the presence of the Holy Gifts". Only allusion to anything akin to RC euch. devotion in the EO I remeber seeing.

There is a reason Papist asked about the Liturgy of the Pre-Sanctified Gifts . . .
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Offline Papist

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Re: Do the Orthodox Pray to Jesus in the Eucharist?
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2012, 07:39:16 PM »
Just curious. Do ya'll ever pray to Jesus in the Eucharist? Are there any liturgical prayers specifically written to be prayed to Jesus in the Eucharist?

Are you familiar with the Canon of Preparation for Holy Communion,
http://www.stmaryofegypt.org/prayerbook/cancomu.htm
Preparatory Prayers for holy Communion,
http://www.stmaryofegypt.org/prayerbook/praycomu.htm
and Thanksgiving Prayers for Holy Communion?
http://www.stmaryofegypt.org/prayerbook/thankshc.htm

These are as close as you are going to get.    In the East, Christ is prayed to. It seems strange to pray to one aspect of Him like the Sacred Heart, Divine Mercy, Eucharist, Holy Wounds, etc.
Yes Deacon. We have those prayers at the Byzantine Catholic Church that I occassionally attend. But thank you for sharing them again. They are quite beautiful and uplifting to hear after a rough day.
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Offline Papist

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Re: Do the Orthodox Pray to Jesus in the Eucharist?
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2012, 07:40:06 PM »
Would it be inappropriate for an Eastern Orthodox Christian to pray to Christ in the tabernacle before Liturgy?
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Re: Do the Orthodox Pray to Jesus in the Eucharist?
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2012, 07:50:12 PM »
Just curious. Do ya'll ever pray to Jesus in the Eucharist? Are there any liturgical prayers specifically written to be prayed to Jesus in the Eucharist?
I should think not: the usual prayer before communion says "I believe O Lord and confess that You are truly the Christ, the Son of the Living God....and I believe that This is truly Your pure Body and This is your precious Blood...," i.e. it addresses Christ but not really Christ in the Eucharist which is standing before the congregation when they say this.

Also, do you ever have the liturgy of the presanctified like our Byzantine Catholics do?
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Offline Father H

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Re: Do the Orthodox Pray to Jesus in the Eucharist?
« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2012, 08:16:21 PM »
Just curious. Do ya'll ever pray to Jesus in the Eucharist? Are there any liturgical prayers specifically written to be prayed to Jesus in the Eucharist?

Also, do you ever have the liturgy of the presanctified like our Byzantine Catholics do?

At every Presanctified there is Eucharistic Adoration in the first part.  The priest has the gifts on the altar and transfers them to the paten as the people are saying prayers.   Of course, in the second part there is communion. 

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Re: Do the Orthodox Pray to Jesus in the Eucharist?
« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2012, 08:17:49 PM »
Just curious. Do ya'll ever pray to Jesus in the Eucharist? Are there any liturgical prayers specifically written to be prayed to Jesus in the Eucharist?

Also, do you ever have the liturgy of the presanctified like our Byzantine Catholics do?

At every Presanctified there is Eucharistic Adoration in the first part.  The priest has the gifts on the altar and transfers them to the paten as the people are saying prayers.   Of course, in the second part there is communion. 
Thanks Fr. HLL. I'll have to be more observant next time I go to the Liturgy of the Presanctified. I have been many times, but I still miss a great deal. I guess we Romans would have to learn the "language" of the Byzantine liturgy, so to speak.
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Re: Do the Orthodox Pray to Jesus in the Eucharist?
« Reply #18 on: March 05, 2012, 10:32:13 PM »
Just curious. Do ya'll ever pray to Jesus in the Eucharist? Are there any liturgical prayers specifically written to be prayed to Jesus in the Eucharist?

Also, do you ever have the liturgy of the presanctified like our Byzantine Catholics do?

Pardon me for taking the liberty of answering, not being Orthodox and all,  but....

1st and 2nd Questions: see this--http://www.ocf.org/OrthodoxPage/liturgy/liturgy.html (I'm sure there are other links available, this is the first that came up).

3rd Question--The Liturgy of the Presanctified is celebrated throughout Lent, on Wednesdays.

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet, but the Liturgy of the Presanctified is also celebrated on Fridays during Lent.
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Re: Do the Orthodox Pray to Jesus in the Eucharist?
« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2012, 05:21:29 PM »
The Second Antiphon

(The designated verses from the Psalms are sung with the hymn:)

People:
    Save us, O Son of God, (who rose from the dead), to You we sing: Alleluia (3).

    Glory to the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, now and forever and to the ages of ages. Amen.

    Only begotten Son and Word of God, although immortal You humbled Yourself for our salvation, taking flesh from the holy Theotokos and ever virgin Mary and, without change, becoming man. Christ, our God, You were crucified but conquered death by death. You are one of the Holy Trinity, glorified with the Father and the Holy Spirit - save us.

That's not the Justinian hymn proper it is
Only Begotten Son and Immortal Word of God,
Who for our salvation didst will to be incarnate of the holy Theotokos and ever virgin Mary,
Who without change didst become man and wast crucified, O Christ our God,
Trampling down death by death, Who art one of the Holy Trinity,
Glorified with the Father and the Holy Spirit, save us. source http://orthodoxwiki.org/Only-begotten_Son
however, I know it is orthodoxwiki but this is the same English we use.

No, we don't have eucharistic adoration or anything like that.  Those are 11th century innovations in the Roman Catholic church that were created to enforce the dogma of transubstantiation.

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Re: Do the Orthodox Pray to Jesus in the Eucharist?
« Reply #20 on: March 07, 2012, 06:18:27 PM »
The Second Antiphon

(The designated verses from the Psalms are sung with the hymn:)

People:
    Save us, O Son of God, (who rose from the dead), to You we sing: Alleluia (3).

    Glory to the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, now and forever and to the ages of ages. Amen.

    Only begotten Son and Word of God, although immortal You humbled Yourself for our salvation, taking flesh from the holy Theotokos and ever virgin Mary and, without change, becoming man. Christ, our God, You were crucified but conquered death by death. You are one of the Holy Trinity, glorified with the Father and the Holy Spirit - save us.

That's not the Justinian hymn proper it is
Only Begotten Son and Immortal Word of God,
Who for our salvation didst will to be incarnate of the holy Theotokos and ever virgin Mary,
Who without change didst become man and wast crucified, O Christ our God,
Trampling down death by death, Who art one of the Holy Trinity,
Glorified with the Father and the Holy Spirit, save us. source http://orthodoxwiki.org/Only-begotten_Son
however, I know it is orthodoxwiki but this is the same English we use.

Well, I got that from an Orthodox site, but I won't quibble about the precise version of the language.

No, we don't have eucharistic adoration or anything like that.  Those are 11th century innovations in the Roman Catholic church that were created to enforce the dogma of transubstantiation.


My understanding is a little, but not much, different--Eucharistic adoration had its origins in earlier Christianity than the 11th century, and wasn't specifically created to "enforce the dogma of transubstantiation", although one could possibly interpret it that way.  Not really an issue worth haggling over, I think.
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Re: Do the Orthodox Pray to Jesus in the Eucharist?
« Reply #21 on: March 07, 2012, 08:48:52 PM »
The Second Antiphon

(The designated verses from the Psalms are sung with the hymn:)

People:
    Save us, O Son of God, (who rose from the dead), to You we sing: Alleluia (3).

    Glory to the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, now and forever and to the ages of ages. Amen.

    Only begotten Son and Word of God, although immortal You humbled Yourself for our salvation, taking flesh from the holy Theotokos and ever virgin Mary and, without change, becoming man. Christ, our God, You were crucified but conquered death by death. You are one of the Holy Trinity, glorified with the Father and the Holy Spirit - save us.

That's not the Justinian hymn proper it is
Only Begotten Son and Immortal Word of God,
Who for our salvation didst will to be incarnate of the holy Theotokos and ever virgin Mary,
Who without change didst become man and wast crucified, O Christ our God,
Trampling down death by death, Who art one of the Holy Trinity,
Glorified with the Father and the Holy Spirit, save us. source http://orthodoxwiki.org/Only-begotten_Son
however, I know it is orthodoxwiki but this is the same English we use.

Well, I got that from an Orthodox site, but I won't quibble about the precise version of the language.

No, we don't have eucharistic adoration or anything like that.  Those are 11th century innovations in the Roman Catholic church that were created to enforce the dogma of transubstantiation.


My understanding is a little, but not much, different--Eucharistic adoration had its origins in earlier Christianity than the 11th century, and wasn't specifically created to "enforce the dogma of transubstantiation", although one could possibly interpret it that way.  Not really an issue worth haggling over, I think.


Yup, it may have existed earlier, I did hear two that the two minor elevations in the roman mass occured to strengthen transubstantiation as well, and that people used to go from church to church and yell, "hold it higher sire" you know when the priest held up the host, bell rang, altar boy holds his chausible up and someone else is incensing, same for the chalice.  Originally it is thought or studied that even the orthodox didn't have an elevation "thine own of thine on.." and adopted it possibly from the Catholics in the 1500's.

However, not quibbling about your Only Begotten Son, the one I posted is the only way I ever heard it in English.

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Re: Do the Orthodox Pray to Jesus in the Eucharist?
« Reply #22 on: March 12, 2012, 10:48:50 AM »
No, we don't have eucharistic adoration or anything like that.  Those are 11th century innovations in the Roman Catholic church that were created to enforce the dogma of transubstantiation.

Actually, I suspect it was the other way round: transubstantiation was formulated to justify the developing practice of eucharistic adoration both within and outside the liturgy.  If it is proper to adore Christ in the Blessed Sacrament, then it must be made clear that the worshipper is not committing idolatry, i.e., is not worshipping creatures (specifically, bread and wine).   

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Re: Do the Orthodox Pray to Jesus in the Eucharist?
« Reply #23 on: March 12, 2012, 10:54:20 AM »
The earliest Eastern, albeit Oriental Orthodox, prayer directed to the Eucharistic Christ that I have found is from Philoxenus of Mabbug (5th century):

Quote
I carry you, living God, who is incarnate in the bread, and I embrace you in my palms, Lord of the worlds whom no world has contained. You have circumscribed yourself in a fiery coal within a fleshly palm—you Lord, who with your palm measured out the dust of the earth. You are holy, God incarnate in my hands in a fiery coal which is a body. See, I hold you, although there is nothing that contains you; a bodily hand embraces you, Lord of natures whom a fleshly womb embraced. Within a womb you became a circumscribed body, and now within a hand you appear to me as a small morsel.

As you have made me worthy to approach you and receive you—and see, my hands embrace you confidently—make me worthy, Lord, to eat you in a holy manner and to taste the food of your body as a taste of your life. Instead of the stomach, the body’s member, may the womb of my intellect and the hand of my mind receive you. May you be conceived in me as you were in the womb of the Virgin. There you appeared as an infant, and your hidden self was revealed to the world as corporeal fruit; may you also appear in me here and be revealed from me in fruits that are spiritual works and just labors pleasing to your will.

And by your food may my desires be killed; and by the drinking of your cup may my passions be quenched. And instead of the members of my body, may my thoughts receive strength from the nourishment of your body. Like the manifest members of my body, may my hidden thoughts be engaged in exercise and in running and in works according to your living commands and your spiritual laws. From the food of your body and the drinking of your blood may I wax strong inwardly, and excel outwardly, and run diligently, and to attain to the full stature of an interior human being. May I become a perfect man, mature in the intelligence residing in all my spiritual members, my head being crowned with the crown of perfection of all of my behavior. May I be a royal diadem in your hands, as you promised me, O hidden God whose manifestness I embrace in the perfection of your body.

I do not know if the Byzantine tradition has analogous prayers like this.  I have searched and have not found any.  But the practice of eucharistic adoration during the Liturgy of the Presanctified is most certainly pronounced and profoundly moving. 

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Re: Do the Orthodox Pray to Jesus in the Eucharist?
« Reply #24 on: March 12, 2012, 11:14:56 AM »
Presanctified Liturgy (prayer before the our Father):

"look upon us, your unworthy servants, who stand before this your holy altar, as before the throne of the Cherubim, on which, though the dread mysteries here set forth, rests your Son and our God"

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Re: Do the Orthodox Pray to Jesus in the Eucharist?
« Reply #25 on: March 12, 2012, 11:26:10 AM »
It's difficult to know where the exact distinction lies.

For example, what exactly does Exposition of the Blessed Sacrament mean? About a dozen years ago I regularly went an Opus Dei service, which included having the eucharist on the altar -- but not in a monstrance (as I was accustomed to) but in such a way that you couldn't physically see the host. I think this would still be considered  Exposition of the Blessed Sacrament, I'm not sure technically.
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Offline elijahmaria

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Re: Do the Orthodox Pray to Jesus in the Eucharist?
« Reply #26 on: March 15, 2012, 07:39:57 PM »
It's difficult to know where the exact distinction lies.

For example, what exactly does Exposition of the Blessed Sacrament mean? About a dozen years ago I regularly went an Opus Dei service, which included having the eucharist on the altar -- but not in a monstrance (as I was accustomed to) but in such a way that you couldn't physically see the host. I think this would still be considered  Exposition of the Blessed Sacrament, I'm not sure technically.

As long as the sacred species are out on the altar explicitly to be adored.

M.

Offline Cantor Krishnich

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Re: Do the Orthodox Pray to Jesus in the Eucharist?
« Reply #27 on: March 21, 2012, 05:46:53 AM »
Also.....When we enter or leave the church or pass by the altar area, we make the sign of the cross (which is accompanied by a deep bow on Sundays or a prostration on weekdays).
Most Holy Theotokos, Save Us!
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, Have Mercy Upon Me a Sinner!

Offline Father H

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Re: Do the Orthodox Pray to Jesus in the Eucharist?
« Reply #28 on: March 21, 2012, 04:54:46 PM »
Right,

"Exposition" with adoration happens at Presanctified

At all times when we traverse a Church on the outside we make the sign of the cross venerating Christ's presence in the Eucharist which resides in the tabernacle. 

So there is "always" veneration, although not "always" exposition.  Exposition happens in an Orthodoxy within a liturgical context.  Even the elevation at a regular Liturgy is "exposition."