Author Topic: Rules = so confusing  (Read 677 times)

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Offline Maria

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Rules = so confusing
« on: August 30, 2015, 07:14:07 PM »
Do not worry, this thread was recently moved into "Free for all" so that we can continue to be off topic and not violate any rules.

That's not how it works.

Okay, how does Free-For-All work in practice, not in theory?

Once a thread gets moved into Free-For-All, there seems to be a lot of heated discussion bordering on polemics without politics and ad hominems. This is where a lot of people can earn those green moldy meatballs because they get caught up in the arguments and then unleash an ad hominem or think they are in politics because of all the borderline discussions that go on there.

But there seems to be a lot of off topic tangents that are tolerated.

I have read OC.net's rules, and they are so verbose, that I cannot figure them out. I am sure I am not the only one who feels this way.

So, we are not be off topic in Free-For-All? What does FFA mean anyway?
« Last Edit: August 30, 2015, 07:37:09 PM by Maria »
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Rules = so confusing
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2015, 07:32:03 PM »
I will only speak to my own posting habits, but I don't pay much attention to what forum something is in. I just try to not be a jerk unless I am in politics in which case I do act like a jerk. I'm pretty sure 95% of my posts are off topic, but until I get green words pointed in my direction, I don't worry too much about it.
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Offline Opus118

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Re: Rules = so confusing
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2015, 11:39:42 AM »
Do not worry, this thread was recently moved into "Free for all" so that we can continue to be off topic and not violate any rules.

That's not how it works.

Okay, how does Free-For-All work in practice, not in theory?

Once a thread gets moved into Free-For-All, there seems to be a lot of heated discussion bordering on polemics without politics and ad hominems. This is where a lot of people can earn those green moldy meatballs because they get caught up in the arguments and then unleash an ad hominem or think they are in politics because of all the borderline discussions that go on there.

But there seems to be a lot of off topic tangents that are tolerated.

I have read OC.net's rules, and they are so verbose, that I cannot figure them out. I am sure I am not the only one who feels this way.

So, we are not be off topic in Free-For-All? What does FFA mean anyway?

It is confusing.

From the rules:
Quote
* Keep Threads on Target -- For the forum-challenged, a thread is a sequence of postings, or messages, related to a primary topic.  For purposes of continuity and consistency, please keep ALL threads on target to their original purpose.  If you want to deviate, start a new thread.

The ALL in the above rule means ALL. It is pretty clear and this is what we should follow. The posting of silly pictures (without explanatory text) that have no bearing on the discussion topic and which are often meant to ridicule a post or poster falls under this rule.

However two items below the above quote is this:
Quote
* Thread Commandeering -- Any poster may face discipline on the site if, in the consensus of the Adminstrative or moderatorial team, any individual poster habitually takes control of numerous threads by posting non-germane material in existing discussions, providing irrelevant observations or points, or continually bringing up the same point in numerous threads.

The rule implies that ALL does not mean ALL.  ALL is kind of ALL, but not truly ALL to varying extents. You can post "non-germane" stuff as long as you do not do it in multiple threads. Since the latter rule is listed after the former, more strict-looking rule, I must assume this rule modifies the rule above it.  I surmise this is meant to allow someone to post a picture of a guy with an aluminum foil hat every time I (for example) come up with an off-beat idea that I think is worth discussing.


Offline Asteriktos

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Re: Rules = so confusing
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2015, 12:05:08 PM »
^As the old saying goes, a picture meme is worth a thousand words responses. Though the image should ideally communicate thoughts, and supplement textual responses, and not (in serious threads) replace them. Intentionally causing discussions to go off the rails on a regular basis seems bad; going off topic though seems normal to me, and how things work in the offline part of real life.
"I, Lucian, wrote this, I who am skilled in what is old and foolish; For what men think wise is foolish. So then nothing that the mind of man can conceive is certain; What you admire, seems ridiculous to others." - St. Lucian of Antioch

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Rules = so confusing
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2015, 12:34:51 PM »
They should make a rule requiring people to make sense. 

Offline DeniseDenise

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Re: Rules = so confusing
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2015, 12:40:33 PM »
They should make a rule requiring people to make sense.


That would involve just closing down.
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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Rules = so confusing
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2015, 12:42:02 PM »
Do not worry, this thread was recently moved into "Free for all" so that we can continue to be off topic and not violate any rules.

That's not how it works.

Okay, how does Free-For-All work in practice, not in theory?

Once a thread gets moved into Free-For-All, there seems to be a lot of heated discussion bordering on polemics without politics and ad hominems. This is where a lot of people can earn those green moldy meatballs because they get caught up in the arguments and then unleash an ad hominem or think they are in politics because of all the borderline discussions that go on there.

But there seems to be a lot of off topic tangents that are tolerated.

I have read OC.net's rules, and they are so verbose, that I cannot figure them out. I am sure I am not the only one who feels this way.

So, we are not be off topic in Free-For-All? What does FFA mean anyway?

It is confusing.

From the rules:
Quote
* Keep Threads on Target -- For the forum-challenged, a thread is a sequence of postings, or messages, related to a primary topic.  For purposes of continuity and consistency, please keep ALL threads on target to their original purpose.  If you want to deviate, start a new thread.

The ALL in the above rule means ALL. It is pretty clear and this is what we should follow. The posting of silly pictures (without explanatory text) that have no bearing on the discussion topic and which are often meant to ridicule a post or poster falls under this rule.

However two items below the above quote is this:
Quote
* Thread Commandeering -- Any poster may face discipline on the site if, in the consensus of the Adminstrative or moderatorial team, any individual poster habitually takes control of numerous threads by posting non-germane material in existing discussions, providing irrelevant observations or points, or continually bringing up the same point in numerous threads.

The rule implies that ALL does not mean ALL.  ALL is kind of ALL, but not truly ALL to varying extents. You can post "non-germane" stuff as long as you do not do it in multiple threads. Since the latter rule is listed after the former, more strict-looking rule, I must assume this rule modifies the rule above it.  I surmise this is meant to allow someone to post a picture of a guy with an aluminum foil hat every time I (for example) come up with an off-beat idea that I think is worth discussing.
How do you see such an implication that our Thread Commandeering rule and our Stay On Topic rule somehow contradict each other? ??? There's NOTHING in the Thread Commandeering rule that even comes close to implying that you're allowed to post off topic stuff as long as you don't do so on multiple threads.
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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Rules = so confusing
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2015, 12:43:23 PM »
They should make a rule requiring people to make sense.


That would involve just closing down.
You say that a lot. ;)
Not all who wander are lost.

Offline DeniseDenise

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Re: Rules = so confusing
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2015, 12:44:22 PM »
They should make a rule requiring people to make sense.


That would involve just closing down.
You say that a lot. ;)

Well its true a lot.

People make no sense.

so a rule against making no sense would = zero posts
All opinions expressed by myself are quite tragically my own, and not those of any other poster or wall hangings.

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Rules = so confusing
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2015, 12:45:21 PM »
They should make a rule requiring people to make sense.


That would involve just closing down.
You say that a lot. ;)

Well its true a lot.

People make no sense.

so a rule against making no sense would = zero posts
And right now, you're not making any sense. ;)
Not all who wander are lost.

Offline Velsigne

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Re: Rules = so confusing
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2015, 01:24:12 PM »
They should make a rule requiring people to make sense.

Yeah huh, I often don't understand what you are insinuating in your comments.

 ;D :P

Offline Opus118

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Re: Rules = so confusing
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2015, 01:31:34 PM »
They should make a rule requiring people to make sense.

"They" shouldn't make a rule requiring people who do not understand something to ask what was meant.  We shouldn't force you to learn something if you do not want to.

Offline Opus118

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Re: Rules = so confusing
« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2015, 01:38:17 PM »
Do not worry, this thread was recently moved into "Free for all" so that we can continue to be off topic and not violate any rules.

That's not how it works.

Okay, how does Free-For-All work in practice, not in theory?

Once a thread gets moved into Free-For-All, there seems to be a lot of heated discussion bordering on polemics without politics and ad hominems. This is where a lot of people can earn those green moldy meatballs because they get caught up in the arguments and then unleash an ad hominem or think they are in politics because of all the borderline discussions that go on there.

But there seems to be a lot of off topic tangents that are tolerated.

I have read OC.net's rules, and they are so verbose, that I cannot figure them out. I am sure I am not the only one who feels this way.

So, we are not be off topic in Free-For-All? What does FFA mean anyway?

It is confusing.

From the rules:
Quote
* Keep Threads on Target -- For the forum-challenged, a thread is a sequence of postings, or messages, related to a primary topic.  For purposes of continuity and consistency, please keep ALL threads on target to their original purpose.  If you want to deviate, start a new thread.

The ALL in the above rule means ALL. It is pretty clear and this is what we should follow. The posting of silly pictures (without explanatory text) that have no bearing on the discussion topic and which are often meant to ridicule a post or poster falls under this rule.

However two items below the above quote is this:
Quote
* Thread Commandeering -- Any poster may face discipline on the site if, in the consensus of the Adminstrative or moderatorial team, any individual poster habitually takes control of numerous threads by posting non-germane material in existing discussions, providing irrelevant observations or points, or continually bringing up the same point in numerous threads.

The rule implies that ALL does not mean ALL.  ALL is kind of ALL, but not truly ALL to varying extents. You can post "non-germane" stuff as long as you do not do it in multiple threads. Since the latter rule is listed after the former, more strict-looking rule, I must assume this rule modifies the rule above it.  I surmise this is meant to allow someone to post a picture of a guy with an aluminum foil hat every time I (for example) come up with an off-beat idea that I think is worth discussing.
How do you see such an implication that our Thread Commandeering rule and our Stay On Topic rule somehow contradict each other? ??? There's NOTHING in the Thread Commandeering rule that even comes close to implying that you're allowed to post off topic stuff as long as you don't do so on multiple threads.

It was my interpretation of "habitually takes control of numerous threads by posting non-germane material". If it is not habitual, you do not face discipline (discipline is not defined, and could include the normal warning notice). Does that help?

Offline orthonorm

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Re: Rules = so confusing
« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2015, 01:54:35 PM »
Ok, under my forthcoming tenure, it's clear I'll be in charge in name alone taking all the glory while having Opus doing the heavy lifting.

Seems like Opus has exactly the approach I am looking for.
January 23, 2016, 03:47:17 PM   Ad Hominem - "mere foil"   +45

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foil_(literature)

Offline orthonorm

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Re: Rules = so confusing
« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2015, 01:59:19 PM »
Maria, like most humans organs, you have the explicit rules then the implicit ones.

It's the implicit rules which govern human organization, the explicit rules exist to lend the occasional sense of credibility that we live in a clear and equitable manner.

January 23, 2016, 03:47:17 PM   Ad Hominem - "mere foil"   +45

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foil_(literature)

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Rules = so confusing
« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2015, 02:01:12 PM »
Maria, like most humans organs, you have the explicit rules then the implicit ones.

It's the implicit rules which govern human organization, the explicit rules exist to lend the occasional sense of credibility that we live in a clear and equitable manner.
My liver has no implicit rules, but I for one welcome our new orthonormian overlords.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2015, 02:02:16 PM by TheTrisagion »
Quote from: King Olav Tryggvasson
I order you and all your subjects to be baptized. If you refuse, I'll have you killed on the spot and I swear I will ravage every island with fire and steel.

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Rules = so confusing
« Reply #16 on: September 02, 2015, 12:34:43 AM »
Do not worry, this thread was recently moved into "Free for all" so that we can continue to be off topic and not violate any rules.

That's not how it works.

Okay, how does Free-For-All work in practice, not in theory?

Once a thread gets moved into Free-For-All, there seems to be a lot of heated discussion bordering on polemics without politics and ad hominems. This is where a lot of people can earn those green moldy meatballs because they get caught up in the arguments and then unleash an ad hominem or think they are in politics because of all the borderline discussions that go on there.

But there seems to be a lot of off topic tangents that are tolerated.

I have read OC.net's rules, and they are so verbose, that I cannot figure them out. I am sure I am not the only one who feels this way.

So, we are not be off topic in Free-For-All? What does FFA mean anyway?

It is confusing.

From the rules:
Quote
* Keep Threads on Target -- For the forum-challenged, a thread is a sequence of postings, or messages, related to a primary topic.  For purposes of continuity and consistency, please keep ALL threads on target to their original purpose.  If you want to deviate, start a new thread.

The ALL in the above rule means ALL. It is pretty clear and this is what we should follow. The posting of silly pictures (without explanatory text) that have no bearing on the discussion topic and which are often meant to ridicule a post or poster falls under this rule.

However two items below the above quote is this:
Quote
* Thread Commandeering -- Any poster may face discipline on the site if, in the consensus of the Adminstrative or moderatorial team, any individual poster habitually takes control of numerous threads by posting non-germane material in existing discussions, providing irrelevant observations or points, or continually bringing up the same point in numerous threads.

The rule implies that ALL does not mean ALL.  ALL is kind of ALL, but not truly ALL to varying extents. You can post "non-germane" stuff as long as you do not do it in multiple threads. Since the latter rule is listed after the former, more strict-looking rule, I must assume this rule modifies the rule above it.  I surmise this is meant to allow someone to post a picture of a guy with an aluminum foil hat every time I (for example) come up with an off-beat idea that I think is worth discussing.
How do you see such an implication that our Thread Commandeering rule and our Stay On Topic rule somehow contradict each other? ??? There's NOTHING in the Thread Commandeering rule that even comes close to implying that you're allowed to post off topic stuff as long as you don't do so on multiple threads.

It was my interpretation of "habitually takes control of numerous threads by posting non-germane material". If it is not habitual, you do not face discipline (discipline is not defined, and could include the normal warning notice). Does that help?
Yes, it does. Thank you. ;)
Not all who wander are lost.