Author Topic: 1,500-year-old Bible / Turkish 'Bible' has Barnabas forecasting Muhammad's coming  (Read 3623 times)

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Offline Nikolaostheservant

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Wow, Did not know this even existed. Wonder if the Turks will let them see it. Dont think so though.


The Vatican has allegedly issued an official request to examine a 1,500-year-old Bible that has been held in Turkey for the past 12 years


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/23/vatican-requests-1500-year-old-bible-from-turkey_n_1296672.html?ncid=webmail5


Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: 1,500-year-old Bible
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2012, 05:24:24 PM »
"The Bible reportedly contains early teachings of Jesus Christ"

 ;D
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Τοῖς δὲ μεμιασμένοις καὶ ἀπίστοις οὐδὲν καθαρόν

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Offline Theophilos78

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Re: 1,500-year-old Bible
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2012, 05:38:19 PM »
It is funny indeed that an Islamic newspaper suggests that this Bible could be an old copy of the medieval Gospel of Barnabas written in Aramaic!  The medieval Gospel of Barnabas was first devised in Spanish and Italian though. Further, its author never claimed that Jesus got His "true Gospel" written in Aramaic or Hebrew rather than Greek.

Muslim scholars, having been spurred by people like Dan Brown or Bart Ehrman, have recently proposed that the New Testament cannot be genuine because it was written in none of Jesus' languages (Hebrew and Aramaic). This language issue is often brought up by Muslims who object to the authenticity of the canonical Gospels. Ironically, Muhammad's demon was definitely unaware of this argument because he said that Jesus was given a revelation named Injil, which is the Arabic transliteration of the Greek word Euangelion!!! :D

Christians, fasten your seatbelts and be ready for a new conspiracy theory targetting the Bible and Christian tenets.   ::)
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Offline Father H

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Re: 1,500-year-old Bible
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2012, 05:59:39 PM »
Gotta love pseudo-journalistic speculation.  The Gospel of Barnabas is a ridiculous document probably from the Moores in which the author did not even know that Christ and Messiah meant the same thing, having "Jesus Christ" saying that He wasn't the Messiah.....   ::)  :P


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Re: 1,500-year-old Bible
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2012, 08:45:10 PM »

Muslim scholars, having been spurred by people like Dan Brown or Bart Ehrman, have recently proposed that the New Testament cannot be genuine because it was written in none of Jesus' languages (Hebrew and Aramaic). This language issue is often brought up by Muslims who object to the authenticity of the canonical Gospels. Ironically, Muhammad's demon was definitely unaware of this argument because he said that Jesus was given a revelation named Injil, which is the Arabic transliteration of the Greek word Euangelion!!! :D


On another note, why is it unreasonable to posit that Christ may well have spoken Greek alongside of Hebrew and Aramaic?  Greek was the lingua franca and the area of Judea had been thoroughly Hellenized since the days of the Seleucid Empire.
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Offline Jason.Wike

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Re: 1,500-year-old Bible
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2012, 12:30:36 AM »

Muslim scholars, having been spurred by people like Dan Brown or Bart Ehrman, have recently proposed that the New Testament cannot be genuine because it was written in none of Jesus' languages (Hebrew and Aramaic). This language issue is often brought up by Muslims who object to the authenticity of the canonical Gospels. Ironically, Muhammad's demon was definitely unaware of this argument because he said that Jesus was given a revelation named Injil, which is the Arabic transliteration of the Greek word Euangelion!!! :D


On another note, why is it unreasonable to posit that Christ may well have spoken Greek alongside of Hebrew and Aramaic?  Greek was the lingua franca and the area of Judea had been thoroughly Hellenized since the days of the Seleucid Empire.

I point that out to people who claim Jesus only spoke Hebrew or Aramaic all the time and all I ever get is something like "I don't know anything at all about history and I don't want to believe you, so, no - no one in the Middle East spoke Greek." Its really exasperating when its coming from other Christians, who believe Jesus is God, yet somehow incapable of speaking some languages.

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Re: 1,500-year-old Bible
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2012, 01:42:37 AM »
The majority of the linguists whom I've read who have discussed the linguistic situation of the area in Jesus' time do accept the idea that our Lord likely would have had knowledge of Greek. It is an uncontroversial idea, but I suppose that doesn't stop some who (need to) believe that rigid language/dialect boundaries that don't even exist now surely must've existed back then...usually to make everything fit with their particular theology/epistemology. ::)
« Last Edit: February 24, 2012, 01:43:29 AM by dzheremi »

Offline akimori makoto

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Re: 1,500-year-old Bible
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2012, 02:03:27 AM »
What language would the Lord and Pontius Pilate have spoken during their exchange?

I had always assumed they spoke in Greek ...
« Last Edit: February 24, 2012, 02:03:46 AM by akimori makoto »
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Offline Theophilos78

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Re: 1,500-year-old Bible
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2012, 07:07:50 AM »
Gotta love pseudo-journalistic speculation.  The Gospel of Barnabas is a ridiculous document probably from the Moores in which the author did not even know that Christ and Messiah meant the same thing, having "Jesus Christ" saying that He wasn't the Messiah.....   ::)  :P



Yes, that is weird indeed. Maybe the author did not really know that the two words (Christ and Messiah) meant the same thing in different languages. However, it is still possible that he considered the Hebrew word Messiah more theological and authentic. After all, we have the word Messiah in Arabic and the Qur'an, the Hebrew rather than the Greek term having been transliterated into Arabic.
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Offline Theophilos78

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Re: 1,500-year-old Bible
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2012, 07:09:16 AM »

On another note, why is it unreasonable to posit that Christ may well have spoken Greek alongside of Hebrew and Aramaic?  Greek was the lingua franca and the area of Judea had been thoroughly Hellenized since the days of the Seleucid Empire.

In an effort to support their weak and baseless assertion, Muslim scholars definitely overlook and/or deny this possibility.  :angel:
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Offline Theophilos78

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Re: 1,500-year-old Bible
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2012, 07:11:37 AM »
The majority of the linguists whom I've read who have discussed the linguistic situation of the area in Jesus' time do accept the idea that our Lord likely would have had knowledge of Greek. It is an uncontroversial idea, but I suppose that doesn't stop some who (need to) believe that rigid language/dialect boundaries that don't even exist now surely must've existed back then...usually to make everything fit with their particular theology/epistemology. ::)

Exactly! The same people overlook the fact that according to their scripture Allah gave Mary's son a revelation bearing a Greek title! :D
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Offline Theophilos78

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Re: 1,500-year-old Bible
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2012, 07:14:29 AM »

I point that out to people who claim Jesus only spoke Hebrew or Aramaic all the time and all I ever get is something like "I don't know anything at all about history and I don't want to believe you, so, no - no one in the Middle East spoke Greek." Its really exasperating when its coming from other Christians, who believe Jesus is God, yet somehow incapable of speaking some languages.

Figure out the popularity of the Greek language in Israel at that time: we have the Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible, which was used by our first martyr in his discourse to the Jews.  :)
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Offline Theophilos78

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Re: 1,500-year-old Bible
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2012, 07:16:52 AM »
What language would the Lord and Pontius Pilate have spoken during their exchange?

I had always assumed they spoke in Greek ...

Since Muslims deny the Passion, they think that Jesus never entered Pontius Pilate's palace. They mostly believe that someone else (number one candidate being Judas Iscariot) was accidentally considered Jesus and crucified in His stead. This would mean that Judas Iscariot could speak Greek though.  ;D
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Offline Νεκτάριος

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Re: 1,500-year-old Bible
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2012, 07:48:25 AM »
What language would the Lord and Pontius Pilate have spoken during their exchange?

I had always assumed they spoke in Greek ...

In Master and Margarita they used Russian to speak with each other.  I'm going to go with that as the correct answer. 

Offline genesisone

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Re: 1,500-year-old Bible
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2012, 10:58:37 AM »
What language would the Lord and Pontius Pilate have spoken during their exchange?

I had always assumed they spoke in Greek ...
If I remember correctly, Mel Gibson wanted us to believe they spoke in Latin. The Theologian and Evangelist John tells us that the title on the cross was written in Hebrew, Greek, and Latin (John 19:20), so it's not impossible.

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Re: 1,500-year-old Bible
« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2012, 11:34:27 AM »
What language would the Lord and Pontius Pilate have spoken during their exchange?

I had always assumed they spoke in Greek ...
If I remember correctly, Mel Gibson wanted us to believe they spoke in Latin. The Theologian and Evangelist John tells us that the title on the cross was written in Hebrew, Greek, and Latin (John 19:20), so it's not impossible.

Yes, Jesus and Pilate are speaking Latin in the The Passion.

I've always assumed Greek because, as noted earlier, it was the lingua franca of the region.  From what I remember of my linguistics courses in college, practically everyone, even the most ignorant, knew a few words of Greek; it would have taken some effort to not know something of the language.
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Re: 1,500-year-old Bible
« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2012, 11:44:33 AM »
Quote
However, it is still possible that he considered the Hebrew word Messiah more theological and authentic.

Utter rubbish. Every language with a decent vocabulary can express theological concepts adequately. English, mongrel language that it is, has, perhaps, the richest vocabularies of all modern languages.
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Re: 1,500-year-old Bible
« Reply #17 on: February 24, 2012, 02:49:05 PM »
So if this 1500 year old bible has all the books that are in the Orthodox bible, how soon do you think some protestant groups will say its a fake?

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Offline ialmisry

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Re: 1,500-year-old Bible
« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2012, 06:09:02 PM »
It is funny indeed that an Islamic newspaper suggests that this Bible could be an old copy of the medieval Gospel of Barnabas written in Aramaic!  The medieval Gospel of Barnabas was first devised in Spanish and Italian though. Further, its author never claimed that Jesus got His "true Gospel" written in Aramaic or Hebrew rather than Greek.

Muslim scholars, having been spurred by people like Dan Brown or Bart Ehrman, have recently proposed that the New Testament cannot be genuine because it was written in none of Jesus' languages (Hebrew and Aramaic). This language issue is often brought up by Muslims who object to the authenticity of the canonical Gospels. Ironically, Muhammad's demon was definitely unaware of this argument because he said that Jesus was given a revelation named Injil, which is the Arabic transliteration of the Greek word Euangelion!!! :D

Christians, fasten your seatbelts and be ready for a new conspiracy theory targetting the Bible and Christian tenets.   ::)
It is interesting how the more we uncover of the earliest texts, the more the support for the Christian account of the New Testament is solidified, whereas the more the earliest texts of the Quran are uncovered (some were found in a mosque in Yemen) the more the Muslim claim of the text of the Quran never changing is undermined (which is why the Muslims try to suppress such evidence: a dig in Saudi Arabia undercovered Quranic texts from the first Islamic century.  The Saudi government confiscated them, and they haven't seen the light of day).

Also it is interesting that Muslims keep on looking for an "ancient" Gospel of Barnabas (the earliest copy of it is post 1588 (the watermarks on the paper) and ignore the earliest papyri of the NT (which date to within a few decades of the composition of the books).  Won't fit the narrative.
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Offline Zenovia

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Re: 1,500-year-old Bible
« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2012, 10:47:30 PM »
I'm a new member, so I'd like to say hello to everyone. :)

Quote
Figure out the popularity of the Greek language in Israel at that time: we have the Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible, which was used by our first martyr in his discourse to the Jews. 
[/size]

I believe the teachers in Rome were  Greek, so Pontius Pilate had to know Greek fluently.   The name Stephan is also Greek, and Judas is called 'is' cariot, which translates from the Greek as Judas the Cariot.  I'm surprised that Mel Gibson wasn't aware of the dominance of the Greek language in that part of the world...probably because he's very Latin oriented.

As for the Muslims, if their history  is taught the way it is in Turkey,  then the Greeks didn't come into that part of the world until the seventh century.  They  have a strange tendency  of seeing things in  ways that  tend to gratify their religious/political agendas.
   ???
« Last Edit: February 28, 2012, 10:49:48 PM by Zenovia »

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Re: 1,500-year-old Bible
« Reply #20 on: February 28, 2012, 11:03:37 PM »
I think Gibson said he chose Latin because it was more readily distinguishable from the Aramaic dialog. Compared to the other artistic decisions made in the movie, that seems totally reasonable.
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Offline akimori makoto

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Re: 1,500-year-old Bible
« Reply #21 on: February 28, 2012, 11:05:58 PM »
I think Gibson said he chose Latin because it was more readily distinguishable from the Aramaic dialog. Compared to the other artistic decisions made in the movie, that seems totally reasonable.

I suppose we should be grateful. I'm sure we would've all been subjected to some sort of reconstructed pronunciation which would have wounded our souls, had Mr Gibson preferred the Greek.
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Re: 1,500-year-old Bible
« Reply #22 on: February 28, 2012, 11:11:26 PM »

I think Gibson said he chose Latin because it was more readily distinguishable from the Aramaic dialog. Compared to the other artistic decisions made in the movie, that seems totally reasonable.

Then what was Mr Gibson's reason for omitting the Greek inscription on the cross above Christ's head? The charge was written in Hebrew and Latin only. So much for the heavy publicity that this film was the latest in rigorous scholarship and accuracy, any Sunday school kid could have spotted this howler.
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Re: 1,500-year-old Bible
« Reply #23 on: February 28, 2012, 11:12:41 PM »
I suppose we should be grateful. I'm sure we would've all been subjected to some sort of reconstructed pronunciation which would have wounded our souls, had Mr Gibson preferred the Greek.

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Offline William

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Re: 1,500-year-old Bible
« Reply #24 on: February 28, 2012, 11:19:40 PM »
Would Christ ever have actually spoken Hebrew? Wasn't it more of a Church Slavonic-type liturgical language or language of the plebs?
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: 1,500-year-old Bible
« Reply #25 on: February 28, 2012, 11:53:56 PM »
I suppose we should be grateful. I'm sure we would've all been subjected to some sort of reconstructed pronunciation which would have wounded our souls, had Mr Gibson preferred the Greek.

Erasmian pronunciation ... AIEEEEE!!!  :o :o :o

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Offline akimori makoto

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Re: 1,500-year-old Bible
« Reply #26 on: February 28, 2012, 11:55:47 PM »
I suppose we should be grateful. I'm sure we would've all been subjected to some sort of reconstructed pronunciation which would have wounded our souls, had Mr Gibson preferred the Greek.

Erasmian pronunciation ... AIEEEEE!!!  :o :o :o

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« Last Edit: February 28, 2012, 11:56:26 PM by akimori makoto »
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Re: 1,500-year-old Bible
« Reply #27 on: February 29, 2012, 12:05:15 PM »
Quote
I believe the teachers in Rome were  Greek, so Pontius Pilate had to know Greek fluently
Greek was the language de jure in the East for over 300 years by the time Pilate got there. Most teachers and doctors were greeks or could speak it fluently. So did most rich Romans who wanted to enter public service.

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Offline Zenovia

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Re: 1,500-year-old Bible
« Reply #28 on: May 20, 2012, 10:59:47 PM »
Quote
However, it is still possible that he considered the Hebrew word Messiah more theological and authentic.

Utter rubbish. Every language with a decent vocabulary can express theological concepts adequately. English, mongrel language that it is, has, perhaps, the richest vocabularies of all modern languages.


Okay I'm going to go into a bit of history here.   Congress at one time wanted to make Greek the official language but Webster had incorporated so many Greek words into the English language that it wasn't needed.  It lost out by three votes. ..or so I heard.  I also  heard German lost by one vote.  Tough luck guys!  :P

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Re: 1,500-year-old Bible
« Reply #29 on: May 20, 2012, 11:13:24 PM »
Quote
However, it is still possible that he considered the Hebrew word Messiah more theological and authentic.

Utter rubbish. Every language with a decent vocabulary can express theological concepts adequately. English, mongrel language that it is, has, perhaps, the richest vocabularies of all modern languages.


Okay I'm going to go into a bit of history here.   Congress at one time wanted to make Greek the official language but Webster had incorporated so many Greek words into the English language that it wasn't needed.  It lost out by three votes. ..or so I heard.  I also  heard German lost by one vote.  Tough luck guys!  :P

This is absolutely false.  There is very little evidence that the Continental Congress ever seriously considered an alternative to English as an official language (other proposed alternatives included French).  On the second point, the bill regarding German - that did in fact lose by one vote - was a bill that would have published all acts of Congress in German as well as English, not a bill making German the official language.

Think about it, is there really any reason that anything other than English would ever have been given serious thought for an official language, when it has always been - by far - the most known language in the United States?
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: 1,500-year-old Bible
« Reply #30 on: May 20, 2012, 11:15:01 PM »
Quote
However, it is still possible that he considered the Hebrew word Messiah more theological and authentic.

Utter rubbish. Every language with a decent vocabulary can express theological concepts adequately. English, mongrel language that it is, has, perhaps, the richest vocabularies of all modern languages.


Okay I'm going to go into a bit of history here.   Congress at one time wanted to make Greek the official language but Webster had incorporated so many Greek words into the English language that it wasn't needed.  It lost out by three votes. ..or so I heard.  I also  heard German lost by one vote.  Tough luck guys!  :P

This is absolutely false.  There is very little evidence that the Continental Congress ever seriously considered an alternative to English as an official language (other proposed alternatives included French).  On the second point, the bill regarding German - that did in fact lose by one vote - was a bill that would have published all acts of Congress in German as well as English, not a bill making German the official language.

Think about it, is there really any reason that anything other than English would ever have been given serious thought for an official language, when it has always been - by far - the most known language in the United States?

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Offline Timon

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Re: 1,500-year-old Bible
« Reply #31 on: May 20, 2012, 11:38:24 PM »
I always understood that Christ likely knew Greek as well as that was technically the official language of the Eastern Roman Empire.  Although most of the time they spoke in their native tongue.  

Maybe this is a bad analogy, but would it be similar to a hispanic neighborhood in America?  They speak Spanish in their neighborhood, but they obviously have to be somewhat aware of English too as it is the language of the land.

Maybe thats been covered already. Its late and when it gets late I start to ramble.  Im also almost to "Elder" status on this forum. Gotta keep posting....
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Offline JamesRottnek

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Re: 1,500-year-old Bible
« Reply #32 on: May 20, 2012, 11:41:11 PM »
I always understood that Christ likely knew Greek as well as that was technically the official language of the Eastern Roman Empire.  Although most of the time they spoke in their native tongue.  

Maybe this is a bad analogy, but would it be similar to a hispanic neighborhood in America?  They speak Spanish in their neighborhood, but they obviously have to be somewhat aware of English too as it is the language of the land.

Maybe thats been covered already. Its late and when it gets late I start to ramble.  Im also almost to "Elder" status on this forum. Gotta keep posting....

You don't live in a state with many Hispanic people, do you?  Living in Arizona, I have met a multitude of Mexican-Americans (our most common Hispanic) who speak essentially no English and do not understand essentially any; such people are not even restricted to neighborhoods that are primarily Spanish speaking.  I mainly have lived in middle class areas of Chandler, AZ, and I have gone to school with people whose parents came from Mexico, and literally spoke almost no English at all.
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Offline Timon

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Re: 1,500-year-old Bible
« Reply #33 on: May 20, 2012, 11:49:52 PM »
I always understood that Christ likely knew Greek as well as that was technically the official language of the Eastern Roman Empire.  Although most of the time they spoke in their native tongue.  

Maybe this is a bad analogy, but would it be similar to a hispanic neighborhood in America?  They speak Spanish in their neighborhood, but they obviously have to be somewhat aware of English too as it is the language of the land.

Maybe thats been covered already. Its late and when it gets late I start to ramble.  Im also almost to "Elder" status on this forum. Gotta keep posting....

You don't live in a state with many Hispanic people, do you?  Living in Arizona, I have met a multitude of Mexican-Americans (our most common Hispanic) who speak essentially no English and do not understand essentially any; such people are not even restricted to neighborhoods that are primarily Spanish speaking.  I mainly have lived in middle class areas of Chandler, AZ, and I have gone to school with people whose parents came from Mexico, and literally spoke almost no English at all.

Its my understanding that we have quite a bit here in Georgia.  I dont know the technical stats, but I have heard that we have more than one may assume.  I can also tell we have a decent about every time I drive down my street and around my city (Atlanta.)  However, im 100% certain that Arizona has many more hispanics.

Around here, there are several neighborhoods where even the signs are in Spanish.  In those places, everyone who lives there speaks Spanish.  But I still think a majority of them know at least a minimal amount of English.  I acknowledged that my analogy may be weak, but where I am it seems it could still be somewhat comparable to people in Christ time speaking there language while also knowing a minimal amount of Greek.

EDIT* Turns out I was referring to illegal immigration stats.  We rank #7 and Arizona ranks #6 in illegals. 
« Last Edit: May 20, 2012, 11:50:48 PM by Timon »
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Offline Zenovia

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Re: 1,500-year-old Bible
« Reply #34 on: May 21, 2012, 06:35:50 PM »
Quote
However, it is still possible that he considered the Hebrew word Messiah more theological and authentic.

Utter rubbish. Every language with a decent vocabulary can express theological concepts adequately. English, mongrel language that it is, has, perhaps, the richest vocabularies of all modern languages.


Okay I'm going to go into a bit of history here.   Congress at one time wanted to make Greek the official language but Webster had incorporated so many Greek words into the English language that it wasn't needed.  It lost out by three votes. ..or so I heard.  I also  heard German lost by one vote.  Tough luck guys!  :P

This is absolutely false.  There is very little evidence that the Continental Congress ever seriously considered an alternative to English as an official language (other proposed alternatives included French).  On the second point, the bill regarding German - that did in fact lose by one vote - was a bill that would have published all acts of Congress in German as well as English, not a bill making German the official language.

Think about it, is there really any reason that anything other than English would ever have been given serious thought for an official language, when it has always been - by far - the most known language in the United States?

Okay it is absurd, although the Germans conducted everything in German until WWI.  How in the world we ever entered in that war when one takes into account the amount of Germans living here, and that they always spoke German and only intermarried with Germans in Germany,  is surprising.  Who in the world was in charge of the propaganda here, but then again one should never underestimate the 'cunning' of the British.

As for Greek, it probably was considered since it was an outcome of the Enlightenment, and it was being taught in the German schools.  I'm glad though that  it didn't succeed since I somehow feel it contributed to the 'nationalist' idolatry in Germany.  But these are only my thoughts on the subject.  Languages seem to have a strong affect on  people... ???

Offline JamesRottnek

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Re: 1,500-year-old Bible
« Reply #35 on: May 21, 2012, 08:50:13 PM »
Quote
However, it is still possible that he considered the Hebrew word Messiah more theological and authentic.

Utter rubbish. Every language with a decent vocabulary can express theological concepts adequately. English, mongrel language that it is, has, perhaps, the richest vocabularies of all modern languages.


Okay I'm going to go into a bit of history here.   Congress at one time wanted to make Greek the official language but Webster had incorporated so many Greek words into the English language that it wasn't needed.  It lost out by three votes. ..or so I heard.  I also  heard German lost by one vote.  Tough luck guys!  :P

This is absolutely false.  There is very little evidence that the Continental Congress ever seriously considered an alternative to English as an official language (other proposed alternatives included French).  On the second point, the bill regarding German - that did in fact lose by one vote - was a bill that would have published all acts of Congress in German as well as English, not a bill making German the official language.

Think about it, is there really any reason that anything other than English would ever have been given serious thought for an official language, when it has always been - by far - the most known language in the United States?

Okay it is absurd, although the Germans conducted everything in German until WWI.  How in the world we ever entered in that war when one takes into account the amount of Germans living here, and that they always spoke German and only intermarried with Germans in Germany,  is surprising.  Who in the world was in charge of the propaganda here, but then again one should never underestimate the 'cunning' of the British.

As for Greek, it probably was considered since it was an outcome of the Enlightenment, and it was being taught in the German schools.  I'm glad though that  it didn't succeed since I somehow feel it contributed to the 'nationalist' idolatry in Germany.  But these are only my thoughts on the subject.  Languages seem to have a strong affect on  people... ???

Do you think about what you're typing, or just string words together?
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Offline That person

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Re: 1,500-year-old Bible
« Reply #36 on: May 21, 2012, 10:02:07 PM »
Quote
However, it is still possible that he considered the Hebrew word Messiah more theological and authentic.

Utter rubbish. Every language with a decent vocabulary can express theological concepts adequately. English, mongrel language that it is, has, perhaps, the richest vocabularies of all modern languages.


Okay I'm going to go into a bit of history here.   Congress at one time wanted to make Greek the official language but Webster had incorporated so many Greek words into the English language that it wasn't needed.  It lost out by three votes. ..or so I heard.  I also  heard German lost by one vote.  Tough luck guys!  :P

This is absolutely false.  There is very little evidence that the Continental Congress ever seriously considered an alternative to English as an official language (other proposed alternatives included French).  On the second point, the bill regarding German - that did in fact lose by one vote - was a bill that would have published all acts of Congress in German as well as English, not a bill making German the official language.

I'd heard that statistic before and wasn't aware of the context. Thanks for the clarification. It does make sense that congress would want to make things bilingual, since many immigrant communities were quite isolated and would have lacked any exposure to English. Martin van Buren, for example, spoke English as a second language and was said to have a noticeable Dutch accent when he delivered his speeches.

Okay, so that last bit was just me lobbying for a spot on orthonorm's trivia team. If nothing else, I'd be a well-suited candidate geographically. I might actually be down in your city for a Bengals game this season. I'll be sure to let you know when so you can look down on Bengals fans especially snidely that day.
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: 1,500-year-old Bible
« Reply #37 on: May 21, 2012, 10:53:43 PM »
Okay, so that last bit was just me lobbying for a spot on orthonorm's trivia team. If nothing else, I'd be a well-suited candidate geographically.

Only if you are able to be the sorest winner on the planet next to me.

Tonight, another decisive victory. Plain ugly.

Three members against enormous teams. One member is a question short of a GED I think.

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Offline Zenovia

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Re: 1,500-year-old Bible
« Reply #38 on: May 22, 2012, 11:50:07 AM »
Quote
However, it is still possible that he considered the Hebrew word Messiah more theological and authentic.

Utter rubbish. Every language with a decent vocabulary can express theological concepts adequately. English, mongrel language that it is, has, perhaps, the richest vocabularies of all modern languages.


Okay I'm going to go into a bit of history here.   Congress at one time wanted to make Greek the official language but Webster had incorporated so many Greek words into the English language that it wasn't needed.  It lost out by three votes. ..or so I heard.  I also  heard German lost by one vote.  Tough luck guys!  :P

This is absolutely false.  There is very little evidence that the Continental Congress ever seriously considered an alternative to English as an official language (other proposed alternatives included French).  On the second point, the bill regarding German - that did in fact lose by one vote - was a bill that would have published all acts of Congress in German as well as English, not a bill making German the official language.

Think about it, is there really any reason that anything other than English would ever have been given serious thought for an official language, when it has always been - by far - the most known language in the United States?

Okay it is absurd, although the Germans conducted everything in German until WWI.  How in the world we ever entered in that war when one takes into account the amount of Germans living here, and that they always spoke German and only intermarried with Germans in Germany,  is surprising.  Who in the world was in charge of the propaganda here, but then again one should never underestimate the 'cunning' of the British.

As for Greek, it probably was considered since it was an outcome of the Enlightenment, and it was being taught in the German schools.  I'm glad though that  it didn't succeed since I somehow feel it contributed to the 'nationalist' idolatry in Germany.  But these are only my thoughts on the subject.  Languages seem to have a strong affect on  people... ???

Do you think about what you're typing, or just string words together?

 Well I guess I'm overestimated you.  I  do that at times, sorry.   ;)

Offline Aindriú

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Re: 1,500-year-old Bible
« Reply #39 on: May 22, 2012, 12:24:04 PM »
Okay it is absurd, although the Germans conducted everything in German until WWI.  How in the world we ever entered in that war when one takes into account the amount of Germans living here, and that they always spoke German and only intermarried with Germans in Germany,  is surprising.  Who in the world was in charge of the propaganda here, but then again one should never underestimate the 'cunning' of the British.

As for Greek, it probably was considered since it was an outcome of the Enlightenment, and it was being taught in the German schools.  I'm glad though that  it didn't succeed since I somehow feel it contributed to the 'nationalist' idolatry in Germany.  But these are only my thoughts on the subject.  Languages seem to have a strong affect on  people... ???

I read this and literally LMAO.

I'm going to need this.

Offline JamesRottnek

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Re: 1,500-year-old Bible
« Reply #40 on: May 22, 2012, 10:01:50 PM »
Quote
However, it is still possible that he considered the Hebrew word Messiah more theological and authentic.

Utter rubbish. Every language with a decent vocabulary can express theological concepts adequately. English, mongrel language that it is, has, perhaps, the richest vocabularies of all modern languages.


Okay I'm going to go into a bit of history here.   Congress at one time wanted to make Greek the official language but Webster had incorporated so many Greek words into the English language that it wasn't needed.  It lost out by three votes. ..or so I heard.  I also  heard German lost by one vote.  Tough luck guys!  :P

This is absolutely false.  There is very little evidence that the Continental Congress ever seriously considered an alternative to English as an official language (other proposed alternatives included French).  On the second point, the bill regarding German - that did in fact lose by one vote - was a bill that would have published all acts of Congress in German as well as English, not a bill making German the official language.

Think about it, is there really any reason that anything other than English would ever have been given serious thought for an official language, when it has always been - by far - the most known language in the United States?

Okay it is absurd, although the Germans conducted everything in German until WWI.  How in the world we ever entered in that war when one takes into account the amount of Germans living here, and that they always spoke German and only intermarried with Germans in Germany,  is surprising.  Who in the world was in charge of the propaganda here, but then again one should never underestimate the 'cunning' of the British.

As for Greek, it probably was considered since it was an outcome of the Enlightenment, and it was being taught in the German schools.  I'm glad though that  it didn't succeed since I somehow feel it contributed to the 'nationalist' idolatry in Germany.  But these are only my thoughts on the subject.  Languages seem to have a strong affect on  people... ???

Do you think about what you're typing, or just string words together?

 Well I guess I'm overestimated you.  I  do that at times, sorry.   ;)

???
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Offline That person

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Re: 1,500-year-old Bible
« Reply #41 on: May 22, 2012, 11:21:41 PM »
Only if you are able to be the sorest winner on the planet next to me.
I can probably pull that off. If all goes well, the Bengals game should give me good practice.
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Offline primuspilus

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Re: 1,500-year-old Bible
« Reply #42 on: May 23, 2012, 11:02:32 AM »
Quote
Okay I'm going to go into a bit of history here.   Congress at one time wanted to make Greek the official language but Webster had incorporated so many Greek words into the English language that it wasn't needed.  It lost out by three votes. ..or so I heard.  I also  heard German lost by one vote.  Tough luck guys!

and

Quote
Okay it is absurd, although the Germans conducted everything in German until WWI.  How in the world we ever entered in that war when one takes into account the amount of Germans living here, and that they always spoke German and only intermarried with Germans in Germany,  is surprising.  Who in the world was in charge of the propaganda here, but then again one should never underestimate the 'cunning' of the British.

As for Greek, it probably was considered since it was an outcome of the Enlightenment, and it was being taught in the German schools.  I'm glad though that  it didn't succeed since I somehow feel it contributed to the 'nationalist' idolatry in Germany.  But these are only my thoughts on the subject.  Languages seem to have a strong affect on  people

Please, please stop. You're really discounting yourself here. Please, please stop. Im tryin to be on your side darlin, but wow. I want your voice to be given credence in discussions, but stuff like this is really straining all credibility.....well...not just these two things but......


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Offline Balthasar

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Turkish 'Bible' has Barnabas forecasting Muhammad's coming
« Reply #43 on: May 27, 2012, 09:19:42 PM »
Quote
Iran’s Basij Press is claiming a purported Gospel of Barnabas, discovered in 2000, will prove that Islam is the final and righteous religion, causing the collapse worldwide of Christianity.

http://www.worthynews.com/top/wnd-com-2012-05-iran-discovery-will-collapse-christianity-/
« Last Edit: May 27, 2012, 09:47:03 PM by Salpy »

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