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Author Topic: How does obedience relate to salvation?  (Read 603 times) Average Rating: 0
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FountainPen
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« on: February 22, 2012, 08:03:17 PM »

Would you say that obedience is a condition for salvation or more of a result of salvation? Can you explain your reasons, thank you.
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« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2012, 08:39:21 PM »

In obedience, there is salvation.  Of course, there are all sorts of "problems" with this - obedience to whom?  But I think for Orthodox Christians, the answer to this should be clear.
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« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2012, 08:43:15 PM »

In obedience, there is salvation.  Of course, there are all sorts of "problems" with this - obedience to whom?  But I think for Orthodox Christians, the answer to this should be clear.

In theory yes. In practice, I find very few ever listening to me.
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« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2012, 06:20:55 AM »

In obedience, there is salvation.  Of course, there are all sorts of "problems" with this - obedience to whom?  But I think for Orthodox Christians, the answer to this should be clear.

I think for Orthodox Christians, the answer to this should be clear.
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« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2012, 08:26:14 AM »

Would you say that obedience is a condition for salvation or more of a result of salvation? Can you explain your reasons, thank you.
What do you mean by salvation? I suspect you may mean something different from the way Orthodoxy defines "salvation". Here's a nifty video that explains what the Orthodox mean by salvation and how it relates to obedience.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAlCze3ZFjA

Accordingly, I guess the answer to your question is "both".
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« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2012, 09:28:10 AM »

Quote
Would you say that obedience is a condition for salvation or more of a result of salvation? Can you explain your reasons, thank you.


It may be that obedience is our salvation.

"For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous." So everyone became a sinner as a consequence of the first man's disobedience. By Christ's perfect obedience, all have the possibility of being righteous.

So, I think in the end, a Christ like obedience to God is the goal, but one needs to learn this through obedience to His Church.

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« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2012, 09:57:45 AM »

Heb 5:9 "He is the source of eternal salvation to those who obey (ὑπακούουσιν: present/continual active participle) him."

Would you say that obedience is a condition for salvation or more of a result of salvation? Can you explain your reasons, thank you.
It is correlate rather than pre-condition or consequence of God's activity.

Obedience is the fruit of God's enablement; contra Reformed theology our ability to do the good which is the fruit of God's action can begin before rather than only after one comes into the light (explicit in vs. 21):

John 3:19-21 :This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God."

Why not say obedience can only be a consequence of coming into the light? Because one can obey the work of God before one comes to the light (as the above verse clearly says "he who practices the truth comes to the light...").

True obedience is inseparable from grace: "...apart from me you can do nothing" (Jn 15:5). True obedience is the fruit of the Spirit (cf. esp. "self-control" as the fruit of the Spirit in Galatians). Like God Himself, God's working in our hearts is not limited to an abstracted time frame of order of operation; He is with all, in all, and through all things, and the Spirit like the wind is unpredictable -He is a Person rather than a force or mechanism- and cannot be confined to a model of predictability.

Obedience is a sign rather than a means of salvation (1 Jn -"by this you know").

We are neither saved by works nor without them; rather we speak of faith working through love -it is all correlative: "...the only thing that counts is faith working through love" (Gal 5:9).

If we were to ask “what is the greatest Christian virtue” many Protestants would say “it is faith.” But faith is not the greatest Christian virtue. As Paul informs us in 1 Cor 13:2, “If I have all faith so as to move mountains but do not have love I am nothing.” Paul is pretty blunt about it. If you don’t love, you are nothing, and your life counts for nothing but wasted space.

Heb 3:6 We are of Christ's house "if we hold fast our confidence and the boast of our hope firm until the end"
« Last Edit: February 23, 2012, 10:27:45 AM by xariskai » Logged

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« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2012, 12:16:57 PM »

I guess I wouldn’t really say that obedience is a condition or result but part of our cooperation with God to receive, and continue to receive, His salvation through His loving Grace. 
The abridged explanation: I think we all probably agree it is not through obedience alone. To my understanding it cannot be solely by our faith that Jesus Christ is the Son of God either. The devil believes Jesus Christ is the Son of God. It is by faith through the gift of God’s Grace but do we not need to open our hearts to receive such a gift? We have all seen the billboards of John 3:15-16. Indeed there are many that rest in this and go no further. I cannot take that out of context though as John 3:17-20 make it perfectly clear for me:
 19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
If sin separates us from God then wouldn’t repentance be the process of reconnecting with our creator? I believe obedience is part of that process to open our hearts and receive God’s Grace. Not necessarily a condition for it, nor a result of it, but by our free will a cooperation with Him that allows us to receive it, and return from darkness into His all consuming light.
One of the reasons I am here is to seek Truth and Understanding. I would encourage all to point out any perceived flaws to this view of theology.

In Christ,
Scott
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There are heathens that live with more virtue than I. The devil himself believes Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Neither of these things truly makes me Christian.
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« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2012, 12:27:17 PM »

I had to step away from the computer came back then posted. Now having read xariskai’s post I see I repeated scripture and what not. I'll be more aware in the future.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2012, 12:51:52 PM by alanscott » Logged

There are heathens that live with more virtue than I. The devil himself believes Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Neither of these things truly makes me Christian.
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« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2012, 12:41:50 PM »

In obedience, there is salvation.  Of course, there are all sorts of "problems" with this - obedience to whom?  But I think for Orthodox Christians, the answer to this should be clear.

In theory yes. In practice, I find very few ever listening to me.

 Cheesy
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