Author Topic: Mitered Deacon?  (Read 5041 times)

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Offline FrAugustineFetter

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Re: Mitered Deacon?
« Reply #45 on: January 29, 2012, 06:43:00 PM »
I know that, I was supposing a comical scenario to illustrate how much the Armenians in Jerusalem care about what anyone says of their practices.

Offline FatherGiryus

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Re: Mitered Deacon?
« Reply #46 on: January 29, 2012, 09:13:59 PM »
Yes, they should wear something more subtle...



He looks Armenian.  It could be that this picture was taken on St. Stephan's day.  On that day, Armenian deacons will sometimes be given a crown to wear when censing the church.  I think it is to represent the crown of martyrdom of St. Stephan.

I didn't pay any attention to his ethnicity, I just thought the miter looked rather Byzantine, whereas Armenian miters, in my understanding, are more pointed like those worn by Roman Catholic bishops or Coptic Orthodox priests.

The mitre he is wearing is what our priests wear.  Our bishops wear mitres that resemble those of Catholics.

How come the priests wear the cooler miters?

According to my priest, the kind of crown you see in the picture above used to be what the bishops wore.  Then during the Crusades, the bishops adopted the Western mitre.  They then passed their old mitres to the priests.

As much as I like Armenian hats, I can't help but think this was a bad stylistic choice.
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Offline JamesRottnek

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Re: Mitered Deacon?
« Reply #47 on: January 29, 2012, 09:23:41 PM »
Yes, they should wear something more subtle...



He looks Armenian.  It could be that this picture was taken on St. Stephan's day.  On that day, Armenian deacons will sometimes be given a crown to wear when censing the church.  I think it is to represent the crown of martyrdom of St. Stephan.

I didn't pay any attention to his ethnicity, I just thought the miter looked rather Byzantine, whereas Armenian miters, in my understanding, are more pointed like those worn by Roman Catholic bishops or Coptic Orthodox priests.

The mitre he is wearing is what our priests wear.  Our bishops wear mitres that resemble those of Catholics.

How come the priests wear the cooler miters?

According to my priest, the kind of crown you see in the picture above used to be what the bishops wore.  Then during the Crusades, the bishops adopted the Western mitre.  They then passed their old mitres to the priests.

As much as I like Armenian hats, I can't help but think this was a bad stylistic choice.

Oh my!  Though that is a nice shade of blue.
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Offline Irish Melkite

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Re: Mitered Deacon?
« Reply #48 on: January 29, 2012, 10:27:21 PM »
The Philippi Collection - Dexter Philippi has amassed what is generally acknowledged as the world's largest collection of ecclesiastical headwear - Orthodox, Catholic, you name the religion.

Philippi's is a fascinating site (wish so much of it was not in German) and I was reminded of it by the photo, posted above, of Syracuse University Professor Ole Fanger, of blessed memory. In the photo, by the way, he is garbed in the ceremonial cape and headgear of the Portuguese university that awarded him a doctorate honoris causa for his ground-breaking work on air quality (yes, that is indeed an actual photo up above - not a gag).

stashko, you'll want to check out the site - it should put you right over the edge. Oh. sorry, you're already there you say?

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« Last Edit: January 29, 2012, 10:28:25 PM by Irish Melkite »
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Offline akimori makoto

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Re: Mitered Deacon?
« Reply #49 on: January 30, 2012, 12:52:25 AM »
While goofing around today, I found this picture:



Unfortunately, the photo is on a tourist site and not an Orthodox one. It claims this is an Orthodox deacon at the Church of the Holy Sepulchre. He certainly looks Byzantine enough to be Greek Orthodox, so he obviously isn't Latin-rite Catholic or Armenian Apostolic (their deacons, I hear, sometimes do wear miters).

I've never seen or heard of this practice before, and wanted to know more. If people have any insights, I'd be very appreciative.

For context, the above image was found on this page.

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Offline Salpy

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Re: Mitered Deacon?
« Reply #50 on: January 30, 2012, 02:12:13 AM »
Armenian icon of St. Stephan, probably painted in the 1700's:



http://historyarmenia.org/5573.html/image-14-8

Offline Brigidsboy

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Re: Mitered Deacon?
« Reply #51 on: January 30, 2012, 04:35:01 PM »
There seems to be some confusion about where and when the crown came to be used in the Armenian Church. It is true that our bishops accepted a form of the western mitre during the Crusades. However it seems that we never got the crown from the Byzantines in the first place. Archbishop Ormanian, a prominent authority on the Armenian Church writes that the crown came to us from Persia and was similar in design to their military helmets. The high collar worn by our priests corresponds to the neck-shield. We did not receive this tradition from the Greek Church and thus the use of it by our priests and deacons is, frankly, of no concern to any other church. The Greek Orthodox Bishops were not using a crown during the Crusades, as someone else pointed out earlier.

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« Last Edit: January 30, 2012, 04:35:43 PM by Brigidsboy »
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Offline Benjamin the Red

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Re: Mitered Deacon?
« Reply #52 on: February 07, 2012, 12:00:34 AM »
While goofing around today, I found this picture:



Unfortunately, the photo is on a tourist site and not an Orthodox one. It claims this is an Orthodox deacon at the Church of the Holy Sepulchre. He certainly looks Byzantine enough to be Greek Orthodox, so he obviously isn't Latin-rite Catholic or Armenian Apostolic (their deacons, I hear, sometimes do wear miters).

I've never seen or heard of this practice before, and wanted to know more. If people have any insights, I'd be very appreciative.

For context, the above image was found on this page.

Do we fuzzy brows all look the same to you, Ben?

... (Joking) ...

Lol. While recognizing you jest, I re-read my statement and it does come off badly. My apologies! By "he looks Byzantine enough" I was referring to the vestments. All of the photos and videos I had seen of Armenian Liturgies had the servers/deacons/priests/bishops in a simpler cloth, instead of ornate brocade. Because this deacon is dressed in brocade vestments, I thought he looked rather Byzantine. I also was unaware that the type of mitre he wears is used by the Armenian Church. Until this thread, I thought they exclusively utilized mitres that more closely resembled those used by the RCC.

However, now that I look at him again I can see some stylistic differences that appear more Armenian. For example, the golden "yoke" of his vestment, while most of the vestment is actually red (which makes sense if this is a St. Stephen's Day celebration). Also, the way the collar is cut is atypical of Greek vestments, but matches what I've seen from other Armenian styles.

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Offline ilyazhito

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Re: Mitered Deacon?
« Reply #53 on: February 19, 2012, 03:33:41 PM »
Do Armenian deacons wear double oraria? I only saw Greek and Russian deacons wearing double oraria. If Armenian deacons do, then he is definitely Armenian.