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Offline primuspilus

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priest question
« on: February 15, 2012, 01:31:31 PM »
This has probably been answered before, but I have a bad memory.

Lets say an Orthodox priest, who is married, wants to convert to the Roman Catholic Church. Can he be a priest? How are such things handled?

No real reason for asking, just a bored day at work, and my mind wanders ;)

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Offline Manalive

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Re: priest question
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2012, 01:39:44 PM »
I would imagine he could potentially serve under an Eastern Rite. Under Latin Rite, I wouldn't think so.

I know of an Episcopal priest who could not serve because he was married when he converted to Roman Catholic.
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Offline augustin717

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Re: priest question
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2012, 01:44:21 PM »
Orthodox ( at least born, ethnic Orthodox) becoming catholic are normally required to keep their rite, so they become Greek-Catholics.
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Offline primuspilus

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Re: priest question
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2012, 01:46:50 PM »
Makes sense.....
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Offline J Michael

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Re: priest question
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2012, 01:47:13 PM »
I would imagine he could potentially serve under an Eastern Rite. Under Latin Rite, I wouldn't think so.

I know of an Episcopal priest who could not serve because he was married when he converted to Roman Catholic.

And yet, there are married Latin Rite priests.  And I believe that they are converts from the Anglican/Episcopalian Church.

My understanding, such as it is, is that when any Orthodox Christian "converts" (translates) to the Catholic Church, they are almost always put into an Eastern Rite church.  I'd imagine this would apply for a married Orthodox priest, too, but don't know for sure.
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Offline Scotty

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Re: priest question
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2012, 01:48:57 PM »
Orthodox Christians who convert to Catholicism become Eastern Catholics, regardless of which Church they make their confession in (this is all that is required).  I do not believe priests can switch rites, but can only be allowed to say other rites, though I am not positive.  So he would be an Eastern Rite priest, but I'm sure a Roman Catholic diocese would have no problem with giving him Latin-rite faculties.  It would come down to the Eparchy he joins, and whether they allow this.

Offline elijahmaria

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Re: priest question
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2012, 02:02:26 PM »
Orthodox Christians who convert to Catholicism become Eastern Catholics, regardless of which Church they make their confession in (this is all that is required).  I do not believe priests can switch rites, but can only be allowed to say other rites, though I am not positive.  So he would be an Eastern Rite priest, but I'm sure a Roman Catholic diocese would have no problem with giving him Latin-rite faculties.  It would come down to the Eparchy he joins, and whether they allow this.

Sounds about right.

However:  There are still too many Roman rite bishops who are biased against all married clergy, east and west, and do not make things easy for transfer clergy when they are married.

Issues of authority and control.   Orthodoxy has several very good priests on account...and we were truly the losers.

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Offline Alpo

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Re: priest question
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2012, 02:30:32 PM »
What about WRO? Are they enrolled in Eastern Catholic churches?
« Last Edit: February 15, 2012, 02:31:15 PM by Alpo »
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Offline primuspilus

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Re: priest question
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2012, 02:37:50 PM »
What about WRO? Are they enrolled in Eastern Catholic churches?
Good question, that'd be weird either way ;)

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Offline elijahmaria

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Re: priest question
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2012, 02:54:44 PM »
What about WRO? Are they enrolled in Eastern Catholic churches?
Good question, that'd be weird either way ;)

PP

Oh!!...never thought of it that way, but yes.  It would be wouldn't it...at least at an emotional and spiritual level.  But I suspect that now that there are the personal prelatures to be established, that might be a way to direct them, though that could get strange depending upon old pre-Roman Catholic relationships.  It is a very small world.

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Offline Alpo

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Re: priest question
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2012, 04:11:29 PM »
But I suspect that now that there are the personal prelatures to be established, that might be a way to direct them

Why not to enroll them into the regular Latin church?
But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.
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Offline primuspilus

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Re: priest question
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2012, 04:15:30 PM »
But I suspect that now that there are the personal prelatures to be established, that might be a way to direct them

Why not to enroll them into the regular Latin church?
Because they're married priests...all kinds of butt hurt would follow.
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Offline biro

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Re: priest question
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2012, 04:19:13 PM »
Some RCC bishops have expressed support for a married priesthood. It'll still be a while before they change the canon law, although the present Pope and his predecessor had more cordial relations with the Eastern churches than have others.

I think the easiest thing to do would be to allow a choice of marriage prior to ordination, same way it's done in the Orthodox Church. It may happen someday, but sometimes they do things a little slowly.  :-\ Too bad.
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Offline J Michael

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Re: priest question
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2012, 04:25:09 PM »
But I suspect that now that there are the personal prelatures to be established, that might be a way to direct them

Why not to enroll them into the regular Latin church?
Because they're married priests...all kinds of butt hurt would follow.
 

If married Anglican priests can be received into the Latin church, how would it be different to receive married WRO priests into that same Latin church?

Just out of curiousity--how many married WRO priests are there, and how many of those are likely to convert to Catholicism?
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Offline Alpo

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Re: priest question
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2012, 04:33:17 PM »
But I suspect that now that there are the personal prelatures to be established, that might be a way to direct them

Why not to enroll them into the regular Latin church?
Because they're married priests...all kinds of butt hurt would follow.

LOL. I had completely forgot that one.

Of course this is probably just a theoretical question. I assume that all of our WR clergy have made an explicit decision to not to join the RCC since that would be a lot easier option than WRO.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2012, 04:33:45 PM by Alpo »
But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.
Leviticus 19:34

Offline Papist

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Re: priest question
« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2012, 05:20:20 PM »
This has probably been answered before, but I have a bad memory.

Lets say an Orthodox priest, who is married, wants to convert to the Roman Catholic Church. Can he be a priest? How are such things handled?

No real reason for asking, just a bored day at work, and my mind wanders ;)

PP
Well, since we recognize the Eastern Orthodox priesthood, we already know that he is a priest.
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Offline Papist

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Re: priest question
« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2012, 05:20:20 PM »
But I suspect that now that there are the personal prelatures to be established, that might be a way to direct them

Why not to enroll them into the regular Latin church?
Because they're married priests...all kinds of butt hurt would follow.
While I recognize that married priests do face a great deal of prejudice, my traditioinal parish was greatly enriched by the presence of two married priests in the past year. One was an ex-Anglican priest. The other used to be a Bishop for the Episcopalians and is now the head of those Catholics who use the Anglican rite here in the United States. Both men experienced some prejudice, but, for the most part, our parish loved them.
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Offline Papist

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Re: priest question
« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2012, 05:20:20 PM »
Some RCC bishops have expressed support for a married priesthood. It'll still be a while before they change the canon law, although the present Pope and his predecessor had more cordial relations with the Eastern churches than have others.

I think the easiest thing to do would be to allow a choice of marriage prior to ordination, same way it's done in the Orthodox Church. It may happen someday, but sometimes they do things a little slowly.  :-\ Too bad.
It would be very difficult for us to make such a transition because our parishes tend to be huge, and that would make it very difficult to balance ministarial and family life for such priets.
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Offline James2

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Re: priest question
« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2012, 06:05:01 PM »
But I suspect that now that there are the personal prelatures to be established, that might be a way to direct them

Why not to enroll them into the regular Latin church?
Because they're married priests...all kinds of butt hurt would follow.
 

If married Anglican priests can be received into the Latin church, how would it be different to receive married WRO priests into that same Latin church?

Just out of curiousity--how many married WRO priests are there, and how many of those are likely to convert to Catholicism?

In the AOCA there are around 30 WRO priests, most of whom are married.  Doubtful that any are likely to convert to Catholicism.  Several are former Catholics.

Offline James2

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Re: priest question
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2012, 06:06:24 PM »
But I suspect that now that there are the personal prelatures to be established, that might be a way to direct them

Why not to enroll them into the regular Latin church?
Because they're married priests...all kinds of butt hurt would follow.

LOL. I had completely forgot that one.

Of course this is probably just a theoretical question. I assume that all of our WR clergy have made an explicit decision to not to join the RCC since that would be a lot easier option than WRO.

How would that have been easier?

Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: priest question
« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2012, 06:19:34 PM »
I would imagine he could potentially serve under an Eastern Rite. Under Latin Rite, I wouldn't think so.

I know of an Episcopal priest who could not serve because he was married when he converted to Roman Catholic.

I know of one Orthodox priest who became Latin Catholic and serves in the Latin Church exclusively.  I know another who became Russian Catholic but is bi-ritual and is pastor of a dual Russian/Latin parish.

There are many married Latin Catholic priests who were former Episcopal/Anglican priests.  I imagine the Latin bishop simply didn't want him.  He was under no obligation to ordain him.
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Offline TheMathematician

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Re: priest question
« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2012, 06:24:01 PM »
Now, the fun part would be someone in my scenario if i was ordained

Born Latin Catholic, convert(ing) to Orthodoxy, and if i was ordained and reverted to teh rcc, then(as far as i know) i would still be a latin catholic, despite all the other matters

Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: priest question
« Reply #22 on: February 15, 2012, 06:31:50 PM »
Now, the fun part would be someone in my scenario if i was ordained

Born Latin Catholic, convert(ing) to Orthodoxy, and if i was ordained and reverted to teh rcc, then(as far as i know) i would still be a latin catholic, despite all the other matters

That  is correct.  The bigger question would be did you leave the Latin Church as an adult?  If so, while recognizing your Orthodox ordination, you would not be allowed to serve in the Latin Church as a priest.  This is how Rome heads off defection for ordination at the pass, as it were.
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Offline stanley123

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Re: priest question
« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2012, 08:35:08 PM »
Now, the fun part would be someone in my scenario if i was ordained

Born Latin Catholic, convert(ing) to Orthodoxy, and if i was ordained and reverted to teh rcc, then(as far as i know) i would still be a latin catholic, despite all the other matters
I heard of such a case of a  Latin Catholic converting to E. Orthodox and being ordained an Orthodox priest. After a while as an Orthodox priest, he decided he wanted to be a Catholic. The Byzantine Catholic Church simply accepted him as he was, and he serves as a Byzantine Catholic priest.

Offline podkarpatska

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Re: priest question
« Reply #24 on: February 15, 2012, 10:26:39 PM »
This has probably been answered before, but I have a bad memory.

Lets say an Orthodox priest, who is married, wants to convert to the Roman Catholic Church. Can he be a priest? How are such things handled?

No real reason for asking, just a bored day at work, and my mind wanders ;)

PP

I know of one Orthodox priest who served as a US military chaplain for twenty years who was married, remained married and was received into the Roman Rite of the Catholic Church while his wife remained Orthodox.

Normally, such men are received into the Eastern Catholic Church parallel to their own background. i.e. Ukrainian to Ukrainian etc...


Offline username!

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Re: priest question
« Reply #25 on: February 16, 2012, 07:43:49 PM »
I would imagine he could potentially serve under an Eastern Rite. Under Latin Rite, I wouldn't think so.

I know of an Episcopal priest who could not serve because he was married when he converted to Roman Catholic.

I know of one Orthodox priest who became Latin Catholic and serves in the Latin Church exclusively.  I know another who became Russian Catholic but is bi-ritual and is pastor of a dual Russian/Latin parish.

There are many married Latin Catholic priests who were former Episcopal/Anglican priests.  I imagine the Latin bishop simply didn't want him.  He was under no obligation to ordain him.

Is the Pittsburgh Eparchy going to ordain married men anytime soon?  I know Bishop Kudrick has done that in Parma in the past, does Bishop-elect Skurla plan to ordain married men?  And one more thing, the byzcaths need to convince him to grow a beard.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2012, 07:45:41 PM by username! »

Offline username!

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Re: priest question
« Reply #26 on: February 16, 2012, 07:46:57 PM »
Now, the fun part would be someone in my scenario if i was ordained

Born Latin Catholic, convert(ing) to Orthodoxy, and if i was ordained and reverted to teh rcc, then(as far as i know) i would still be a latin catholic, despite all the other matters

Pretty much, you're still "on the books" always at the RC diocese. 

Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: priest question
« Reply #27 on: February 16, 2012, 11:15:01 PM »
I would imagine he could potentially serve under an Eastern Rite. Under Latin Rite, I wouldn't think so.

I know of an Episcopal priest who could not serve because he was married when he converted to Roman Catholic.

I know of one Orthodox priest who became Latin Catholic and serves in the Latin Church exclusively.  I know another who became Russian Catholic but is bi-ritual and is pastor of a dual Russian/Latin parish.

There are many married Latin Catholic priests who were former Episcopal/Anglican priests.  I imagine the Latin bishop simply didn't want him.  He was under no obligation to ordain him.

Is the Pittsburgh Eparchy going to ordain married men anytime soon?  I know Bishop Kudrick has done that in Parma in the past, does Bishop-elect Skurla plan to ordain married men?  And one more thing, the byzcaths need to convince him to grow a beard.

I don't know.  We do have a married priest in the Archeparchy but he came from Ukraine.  Once he sees my awesome beard he'll be sure to grow one.    ;D
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Offline elijahmaria

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Re: priest question
« Reply #28 on: February 16, 2012, 11:26:28 PM »
I would imagine he could potentially serve under an Eastern Rite. Under Latin Rite, I wouldn't think so.

I know of an Episcopal priest who could not serve because he was married when he converted to Roman Catholic.

I know of one Orthodox priest who became Latin Catholic and serves in the Latin Church exclusively.  I know another who became Russian Catholic but is bi-ritual and is pastor of a dual Russian/Latin parish.

There are many married Latin Catholic priests who were former Episcopal/Anglican priests.  I imagine the Latin bishop simply didn't want him.  He was under no obligation to ordain him.

Is the Pittsburgh Eparchy going to ordain married men anytime soon?  I know Bishop Kudrick has done that in Parma in the past, does Bishop-elect Skurla plan to ordain married men?  And one more thing, the byzcaths need to convince him to grow a beard.

 

I don't know.  We do have a married priest in the Archeparchy but he came from Ukraine.  Once he sees my awesome beard he'll be sure to grow one.    ;D

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« Last Edit: February 16, 2012, 11:27:03 PM by elijahmaria »

Offline Agabus

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Re: priest question
« Reply #29 on: February 17, 2012, 01:13:07 AM »
I would imagine he could potentially serve under an Eastern Rite. Under Latin Rite, I wouldn't think so.

I know of an Episcopal priest who could not serve because he was married when he converted to Roman Catholic.
In the Diocese of Shreveport, a former Methodist minister who is married serves as a priest under the Latin Church's pastoral provision, or so I am told by my Catholic acquaintance who is in the discernment process for the priesthood.
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Re: priest question
« Reply #30 on: February 17, 2012, 10:16:00 AM »
I would imagine he could potentially serve under an Eastern Rite. Under Latin Rite, I wouldn't think so.

I know of an Episcopal priest who could not serve because he was married when he converted to Roman Catholic.

I know of one Orthodox priest who became Latin Catholic and serves in the Latin Church exclusively.  I know another who became Russian Catholic but is bi-ritual and is pastor of a dual Russian/Latin parish.

There are many married Latin Catholic priests who were former Episcopal/Anglican priests.  I imagine the Latin bishop simply didn't want him.  He was under no obligation to ordain him.

Is the Pittsburgh Eparchy going to ordain married men anytime soon?  I know Bishop Kudrick has done that in Parma in the past, does Bishop-elect Skurla plan to ordain married men?  And one more thing, the byzcaths need to convince him to grow a beard.

I don't know.  We do have a married priest in the Archeparchy but he came from Ukraine.  Once he sees my awesome beard he'll be sure to grow one.    ;D

He probably will have to grow a beard to survive a Pittsburgh winter.  Yeah, the parish on southside has a married priest, the  Ukrainian one with forty three domes?  (ok I think it's really like 7)
« Last Edit: February 17, 2012, 10:16:20 AM by username! »

Offline podkarpatska

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Re: priest question
« Reply #31 on: February 17, 2012, 11:32:07 AM »
The BCC priest here in Binghamton was ordained in Presov as a married Greek Catholic priest in the early 1990's. He is married to a Ukrainian American woman. They have one child. It is my understanding that he did not come directly to America as that was not permitted. He came to the Slovak Greek Catholics in Canada and then to the Diocese of Passaic in the USA. He is very 'vostochnyj' if you know what I mean!  :) Many there are not too 'cool' with that.....
« Last Edit: February 17, 2012, 11:32:59 AM by podkarpatska »

Offline Scotty

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Re: priest question
« Reply #32 on: February 18, 2012, 11:43:36 AM »
Some RCC bishops have expressed support for a married priesthood. It'll still be a while before they change the canon law, although the present Pope and his predecessor had more cordial relations with the Eastern churches than have others.

I think the easiest thing to do would be to allow a choice of marriage prior to ordination, same way it's done in the Orthodox Church. It may happen someday, but sometimes they do things a little slowly.  :-\ Too bad.

The Church is just being prudent, for a change.  Some RCC bishops have also seen no theological reason to forbid women from priestly ordination...it doesn't mean they're right.  Right now, married priests could be damaging to an already damaged Church, a risk not worth taking at the moment.  Once the spirit of VII is [super] dead, then perhaps it could be discussed.

Offline Agabus

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Re: priest question
« Reply #33 on: February 18, 2012, 12:50:02 PM »
Some RCC bishops have expressed support for a married priesthood. It'll still be a while before they change the canon law, although the present Pope and his predecessor had more cordial relations with the Eastern churches than have others.

I think the easiest thing to do would be to allow a choice of marriage prior to ordination, same way it's done in the Orthodox Church. It may happen someday, but sometimes they do things a little slowly.  :-\ Too bad.

The Church is just being prudent, for a change.  Some RCC bishops have also seen no theological reason to forbid women from priestly ordination...it doesn't mean they're right.  Right now, married priests could be damaging to an already damaged Church, a risk not worth taking at the moment.  Once the spirit of VII is [super] dead, then perhaps it could be discussed.
Eh?

Maybe I am dense (quite likely, actually), but I can't see how relaxing this particular discipline would damage the Roman church.
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Offline stanley123

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Re: priest question
« Reply #34 on: February 18, 2012, 06:51:36 PM »
  Right now, married priests could be damaging to an already damaged Church, a risk not worth taking at the moment.
How would married priests be damaging to the RC Church?

Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: priest question
« Reply #35 on: February 18, 2012, 07:52:41 PM »
I would imagine he could potentially serve under an Eastern Rite. Under Latin Rite, I wouldn't think so.

I know of an Episcopal priest who could not serve because he was married when he converted to Roman Catholic.

I know of one Orthodox priest who became Latin Catholic and serves in the Latin Church exclusively.  I know another who became Russian Catholic but is bi-ritual and is pastor of a dual Russian/Latin parish.

There are many married Latin Catholic priests who were former Episcopal/Anglican priests.  I imagine the Latin bishop simply didn't want him.  He was under no obligation to ordain him.

Is the Pittsburgh Eparchy going to ordain married men anytime soon?  I know Bishop Kudrick has done that in Parma in the past, does Bishop-elect Skurla plan to ordain married men?  And one more thing, the byzcaths need to convince him to grow a beard.

I don't know.  We do have a married priest in the Archeparchy but he came from Ukraine.  Once he sees my awesome beard he'll be sure to grow one.    ;D

He probably will have to grow a beard to survive a Pittsburgh winter.  Yeah, the parish on southside has a married priest, the  Ukrainian one with forty three domes?  (ok I think it's really like 7)

Yes the Ukrainian Catholic parish on the Southside and the Northside both have married priests, but Ruthenian Archeparchy of Pittsburgh has a married priest in Youngstown as well.
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Offline James2

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Re: priest question
« Reply #36 on: February 18, 2012, 07:53:52 PM »
  Right now, married priests could be damaging to an already damaged Church, a risk not worth taking at the moment.
How would married priests be damaging to the RC Church?

Allowing married priests could encourage dissident Catholics to press for even more changes.  Plus married priests would find it hard to support a family on the low salaries they would be paid.

Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: priest question
« Reply #37 on: February 18, 2012, 07:55:04 PM »
The BCC priest here in Binghamton was ordained in Presov as a married Greek Catholic priest in the early 1990's. He is married to a Ukrainian American woman. They have one child. It is my understanding that he did not come directly to America as that was not permitted. He came to the Slovak Greek Catholics in Canada and then to the Diocese of Passaic in the USA. He is very 'vostochnyj' if you know what I mean!  :) Many there are not too 'cool' with that.....

Never heard of that before.  The married priests in Pittsburgh and Parma came straight here.
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Offline stanley123

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Re: priest question
« Reply #38 on: February 18, 2012, 09:25:14 PM »
  Right now, married priests could be damaging to an already damaged Church, a risk not worth taking at the moment.
How would married priests be damaging to the RC Church?

Allowing married priests could encourage dissident Catholics to press for even more changes.
If the Catholic authorities thought that changes were damaging to the Catholic Church, why then did they put in so many changes after Vatican II?

Offline JamesRottnek

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Re: priest question
« Reply #39 on: February 18, 2012, 11:43:25 PM »
  Right now, married priests could be damaging to an already damaged Church, a risk not worth taking at the moment.
How would married priests be damaging to the RC Church?

The only way I can think of is, potentially, economic.
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Offline James2

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Re: priest question
« Reply #40 on: February 19, 2012, 12:11:57 AM »
  Right now, married priests could be damaging to an already damaged Church, a risk not worth taking at the moment.
How would married priests be damaging to the RC Church?

Allowing married priests could encourage dissident Catholics to press for even more changes.
If the Catholic authorities thought that changes were damaging to the Catholic Church, why then did they put in so many changes after Vatican II?

Now that is a very good question!

Offline William

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Re: priest question
« Reply #41 on: February 19, 2012, 12:24:45 AM »
So what if an Orthodox priest converted but there weren't any EC parishes within hours' driving distance? Would the priest have to move or would he become Latin?
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Offline biro

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Re: priest question
« Reply #42 on: February 19, 2012, 08:52:43 AM »
  Right now, married priests could be damaging to an already damaged Church, a risk not worth taking at the moment.
How would married priests be damaging to the RC Church?

The only way I can think of is, potentially, economic.

Well, there's not only that. If they switch to a married priesthood, the first time someone gets caught having an affair or gets divorced, boy are we not going to hear the end of it. It's happened before to a few Orthodox I've heard of. It is very damaging for the parish community. It's a bit crass to say they are only worried about the money aspect.
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Offline Scotty

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Re: priest question
« Reply #43 on: February 19, 2012, 11:45:07 AM »
 Right now, married priests could be damaging to an already damaged Church, a risk not worth taking at the moment.
How would married priests be damaging to the RC Church?

It will create divisions within an already divided Church.  The SSPX will be forever out of communion, and traditionalists in communion (FSSP, ICRSS, etc) will refuse married priests just as they already do married deacons, of course acknowledging their orders and place in other parts of church to be politically correct.  They will be scrutinized by the mainline Church, which they largely already are; this would damage all the headway the Pope has given to traditionalism.  Which major groups are calling for married clergy within the Roman Catholic Church?  The same ones which are calling for female clergy, gay marriage, open communion, etc.  It will only open a larger can of worms, giving them the impression that Rome is heeding their desires.  And of course economic reasons, but this is right in line with Roman teaching.  If you cannot financially support a marriage and family, then chances are God is not calling you to do so.  Likewise, if a Church cannot support many families, then God is probably not calling it to do so.  

Notice I said could be damaging.  It doesn't mean it would be, but is not worth the risk.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2012, 11:45:55 AM by Scotty »

Offline stanley123

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Re: priest question
« Reply #44 on: February 19, 2012, 08:01:10 PM »
So what if an Orthodox priest converted but there weren't any EC parishes within hours' driving distance? Would the priest have to move or would he become Latin?
I guess he would be relocated. Just a guess.