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Author Topic: Nicki Minaj's Grammy Performace Mocks Catholicism / Satanists mocking Icons @ the Grammy Awards?  (Read 7133 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #180 on: February 20, 2012, 09:29:24 PM »

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The blog post only had pink blindfolded, her left breast exposed, and a checkerboard pants leg.
Masonic entered apprentices are blindfolded, left breast exposed, and stand on the checkerboard floor

Your argument reads like a logical fallacy.

1. Masons dress like this
2. Pink dressed like this once

Therefore:

3. Pink is a Mason

I doubt there is any connection at all. Is there any proof that Pink is involved the occult? If so, can you offer some where she plainly says, "I like and am involved in Freemasonry"? Maybe Pink is just a dipstick? That performance wouldn't have been that good, at any rate, if she hadn't been doing all that foolishness. The song itself was so flat and boring. But say she knew what it was...that hardly makes her a freemason. My guess is, she thought, "hey this looks cool herp derp I wanna push some buttons!" Well, it worked.

Again, such fear; God has given us the spirit of love, not fear. Conspiracy theories and other such things used to rile up the public and make them irrationally fearful. An idol is not simply a statue, it's something we put above God. I think we need to ask ourselves; is our fear and interest in all things "occult" presiding above God? (Not that you do, I am just speaking in general terms).
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« Reply #181 on: February 20, 2012, 09:38:15 PM »

This is getting hilarious. Maybe everyone's a Mason! Could you be one and not know it? Put your forehead on the pommel end of a baseball bat and spin around, to find out. Wink
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« Reply #182 on: February 20, 2012, 10:23:43 PM »

This is getting hilarious. Maybe everyone's a Mason! Could you be one and not know it? Put your forehead on the pommel end of a baseball bat and spin around, to find out. Wink


 Cheesy
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« Reply #183 on: February 20, 2012, 10:43:05 PM »

Quote
The blog post only had pink blindfolded, her left breast exposed, and a checkerboard pants leg.
Masonic entered apprentices are blindfolded, left breast exposed, and stand on the checkerboard floor

Your argument reads like a logical fallacy.

1. Masons dress like this
2. Pink dressed like this once

Therefore:

3. Pink is a Mason

I doubt there is any connection at all. Is there any proof that Pink is involved the occult? If so, can you offer some where she plainly says, "I like and am involved in Freemasonry"? Maybe Pink is just a dipstick? That performance wouldn't have been that good, at any rate, if she hadn't been doing all that foolishness. The song itself was so flat and boring. But say she knew what it was...that hardly makes her a freemason. My guess is, she thought, "hey this looks cool herp derp I wanna push some buttons!" Well, it worked.

Again, such fear; God has given us the spirit of love, not fear. Conspiracy theories and other such things used to rile up the public and make them irrationally fearful. An idol is not simply a statue, it's something we put above God. I think we need to ask ourselves; is our fear and interest in all things "occult" presiding above God? (Not that you do, I am just speaking in general terms).

LOL, "Pink dressed like this once".

Because its sooooo common to wear checkerboard pants, expose your right breast (especially if you are a woman in America) and walk around blindfolded all at the same time...  Brother you are denying something very obvious.
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« Reply #184 on: February 20, 2012, 10:45:30 PM »

This is getting hilarious. Maybe everyone's a Mason! Could you be one and not know it? Put your forehead on the pommel end of a baseball bat and spin around, to find out. Wink


Yeah, you know... "everyone's a mason".  Your attempt as a Christian to mock a fellow Christian is not Christian behavior.   If you look at the obvious and consider "women in America don't normally walk around blindfolded, with a breast exposed, and in checkerboard pants...."

So that makes "everybody" a mason.  Perhaps her dress attire was normal to you.  

One other point - Have any of you actually researched masonry, read their texts, and gone to the library and researched books about them? 

I guess they didn't pray to satan either on the MTV music awards right?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eJ5QxhHQTw  Starts out as a seeming joke, ends serious....

OH WAIT, I don't want to offend.... Youtube as a source of the actual video... Oh no!
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« Reply #185 on: February 20, 2012, 10:47:32 PM »

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women in America don't normally walk around blindfolded, with a breast exposed, and in checkerboard pants....

Women in America don't usually dress in raw meat either, but that hasn't stopped Lady Gaga has it?

I fail to see how this proves anything masonic is going on.
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« Reply #186 on: February 20, 2012, 10:47:56 PM »

Give it a rest, Yesh.
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« Reply #187 on: February 20, 2012, 10:48:59 PM »

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Brother you are denying something very obvious.

I must charitably correct you, friend, for I am a sister Smiley
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« Reply #188 on: February 20, 2012, 10:57:14 PM »

Quote
women in America don't normally walk around blindfolded, with a breast exposed, and in checkerboard pants....

Women in America don't usually dress in raw meat either, but that hasn't stopped Lady Gaga has it?

I fail to see how this proves anything masonic is going on.

Because a blindfold, checkboards, and the breast exposed is the Masonic entered apprentice ritual.  If you knew anything about masonry, then you would know that.  It's written in their own documents.   Here is a video on the ritual itself http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaV8-r1E34I
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« Reply #189 on: February 20, 2012, 10:58:15 PM »

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Brother you are denying something very obvious.

I must charitably correct you, friend, for I am a sister Smiley

My apologies sister.
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« Reply #190 on: February 20, 2012, 11:01:15 PM »

Quote
women in America don't normally walk around blindfolded, with a breast exposed, and in checkerboard pants....

Women in America don't usually dress in raw meat either, but that hasn't stopped Lady Gaga has it?

I fail to see how this proves anything masonic is going on.

Because a blindfold, checkboards, and the breast exposed is the Masonic entered apprentice ritual.  If you knew anything about masonry, then you would know that.  It's written in their own documents.   Here is a video on the ritual itself http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaV8-r1E34I

I don't know that I would, since most of freemasonry is oathbound anyhow.

I think you are reading way too much into this. Pink is just a ditz; as I said before, it is very possible she read this online, went "heh, I should do this because it's edgy or whatever" and went along and did it.

I don't see any proof that Pink is a freemason. If you can offer some other proof, such as an interview, perhaps articles in which she went to a masonic lodge, and so forth, perhaps then that would back up your argument a little. It's flawed to use one picture or one source as the backbone of your entire argument.
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« Reply #191 on: February 20, 2012, 11:01:56 PM »

Quote
My apologies sister.

No need to apologize Smiley

Edit: is it not also true that, because Pink is a woman, she cannot become a free mason? I thought women were not permitted to become members.
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« Reply #192 on: February 20, 2012, 11:05:16 PM »

Give it a rest, Yesh.

biro, this obviously is a topic I'm very compassionate about because I believe that many involved in the television and music industry are involved in distorting the minds of people.

Eastern Mind - Speaking of Lady Gaga, check out the director of her videos http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onqL3WkD7aI&feature=related forward to 1:37 and look at the shirt.
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« Reply #193 on: February 20, 2012, 11:05:43 PM »

Quote
My apologies sister.

No need to apologize Smiley

Edit: is it not also true that, because Pink is a woman, she cannot become a free mason? I thought women were not permitted to become members.

Yes, Eastern Star = female masons
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« Reply #194 on: February 21, 2012, 06:48:08 AM »

Sorry.

The blog post only had pink blindfolded, her left breast exposed, and a checkerboard pants leg.
Masonic entered apprentices are blindfolded, left breast exposed, and stand on the checkerboard floor (yes it has occult meaning to masons).

This was a Masonic ritual right in front of you.  I don't understand how some of you can be so blind to this.  I also find it amazing how "the source" is attacked.

"Some blog".  "Some person".  "Some bishop".   LOOK at the photo....
Just because there is a photo near somebody's text, does not mean you have to agree with their text.  But the photo exists.  Period.

I've POSTED QUOTES from Masonic texts that admit Lucifer is their god.  What more do you want?  Wow, such denial of obviousness...

[...]

And be responded with  "NO this is not a luceferian church".  LOL.  Even thought their texts say it is.  Also I'd be responded with "sicksadworld.info" is not a viable source for information.  LOL - sicksadworld.info merely has a photo just like the blog.  No wonder ecumenism has much of the EO church hoodwinked.  

So while the main stream media mocks your sacraments, implements anti-Christian messages to your Christian youth, provokes blasphemy against the church, implements gnostic luciferian teachings into movies you & you kids enjoy - all many can do is deny and critique the sources.  

I think its funny how people here can be so sure about arguments (in other threads) about the Nicean take on the Trinity, OO vs. EO, RC vs. EO - things that happened centuries to millenia ago - with certainty, but deny photographic and video blasphemy & masonry of things that happen "today".

So rather than ranting further, or even discussing these things on this board further I would like to see which people would be willing to ruin their full credibility by:
1) Denying that Freemasonry believes Lucifer as God.
2) Believes Freemasonry is only a fraternity (with an altar)

I have the book freemasons revere and love, written by a 33 degree mason right here in my hands.  Now let's see who denies it.


I have dealt with these issues in your other thread on Orthodox Freemasons in this forum here (and before that one, here). I even admitted you were right (or in the right general area) in a couple of points there.

In particular, this section from the first post I linked to:

Quote
As for your quote from pg 321, how about providing a little more context for those words. Like so:

The Apocalypse is, to those who receive the nineteenth Degree, the Apothesis of that Sublime Faith which aspires to God alone,  and despises all the pomps and works of Lucifer. LUCIFER, the  Light-bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give to the Spirit of Darkness! Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! Is it he who  bears the Light, and with its splendors intolerable blinds feeble, for traditions are full of sensual or selfish Souls ? Doubt it not!  Divine Revelations and Inspirations: and Inspiration is not of  one Age nor of one Creed. Plato and Philo, also, were inspired.  The Apocalypse, indeed, is a book as obscure as the Sohar.  It is written hieroglyphically with numbers and images; and  the Apostle often appeals to the intelligence of the Initiated.  “Let him who hath knowledge, understand! let him who understands, calculate !” he often says, after an allegory or the mention  of a number. Saint John, the favorite Apostle, and the Depositary  of all the Secrets of the Saviour, therefore did not write to be  understood by the multitude.

Now we know that Lucifer, as in the Devil, can appear as an angel of light, and that his light can blind the feeble. We know that the churches throughout history (traditions) have had their share of believers who have been selfish and sensual at one time or another in their lives (just as those who are not Christian have been) leaving them open to being led astray by the Devil's false light. Also, Pike is clearly surprised that the name "Lucifer" is associated with the Prince of Darkness.

And we have proof, furthermore, that the word "lucifer" with a lowercase letter L is used to refer to Jesus. See here:

2 Peter 1:19

19 Et habemus firmiorem propheticum sermonem : cui benefacitis attendentes quasi lucernæ lucenti in caliginoso loco donec dies elucescat, et lucifer oriatur in cordibus vestris:

In English:

19 And we have the more firm prophetical word: whereunto you do well to attend, as to a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawn and the day star arise in your hearts.

From that "day star" link:

The name Lucifer originally denotes the planet Venus, emphasizing its brilliance. The Vulgate employs the word also for "the light of the morning" (Job 11:17), "the signs of the zodiac" (Job 38:32), and "the aurora" (Psalm 109:3). Metaphorically, the word is applied to the King of Babylon (Isaiah 14:12) as preeminent among the princes of his time; to the high priest Simon son of Onias (Ecclesiasticus 50:6), for his surpassing virtue, to the glory of heaven (Apocalypse 2:28), by reason of its excellency; finally to Jesus Christ himself (2 Peter 1:19; Apocalypse 22:16; the "Exultet" of Holy Saturday) the true light of our spiritual life.

But, and this is a critical distinction, when Jesus is referred to as "lucifer" it is always with a lower case l. Jesus is NEVER referred to as "Lucifer" with a capital L. The Devil, meanwhile, is the capital L Lucifer. Albert Pike is referring to the capital L Lucifer in his text, as we can plainly see.

The fact that you have not addressed could mean a couple of things. First of all, it could mean that I am right. Secondly, it could mean that you have no interest in evidence that stands contrary to your particular point of view. Third, it might demonstrate either an ignorance of history/etymology (particularly of the word Lucifer), and an inability to place things in proper context.

All of this is merely conjecture on my part, of course, but I don't think it's entirely baseless. If I have lacked sufficient charity or overstepped my bounds here, I do apologize, but I am merely trying to call things out as I see them.

The reason why we have not taken these websites seriously is not because we wish to shield ourselves from the truth or that we refuse to take the "hard medicine". It is because they are laughable. In any serious discussion forum other than here, those sites would have been drowned out in tides of justly earned laughter and ridicule, and the person posting them would probably be treated with much less charity than even the worst of us have extended to you in this thread. That Vigiliant Citizen site, for example, reminds me of the Perry Stone types. What the Bible plainly says is not good enough for them. No, there have to be hidden meanings and codes everywhere in the text foretelling all sorts of things, not the least of which is the Apocalypse. So it is the same with these mason sites you cite. The government blew up the WTC, the moon landing was staged, the chemtrails are over my house, and the masons are everywhere and quite literally hellbent on world domination and controlling our minds.

Conspiracy theories are conjured up by fervent imaginations who quite often cannot accept that the truth is so simple. Sometimes a spade is just a spade.

Also, most of the information you have posted can be traced rather directly to a well debunked hoax created by Leo Taxil. It was something he later retracted. If that is not enough, one of Taxil's contemporaries A.E. wrote an entire book, Devil Worship in France, debunking the hoax and the idea that freemason's worshiped the Devil. The author should should know a thing or two about the occult, since he practiced it!

Since you're so fond of mentioning Youtube, try this one.

Though I'm not sure if you have here, I have seen you post the "Yes, LUCIFER IS GOD, and unfortunately Adonay is also god..." passage before. You have cited pages 321 and 324 as the sources of the passage. I'm looking at those pages right now and cannot find the passages in question. This guy could not either, because it does not exist. Behold:

Quote
The origin of this “quote” is from a book entitled Woman and Child in Universal Freemasonry published by Abel Clarin de la Rive.  The “Luciferian Quote” in this book is credited in a foot note to a woman by the name of Diana Vaughan.  Diana Vaughan was a character introduced in the writings of a man named Marie Joseph Gabriel Antoine Jogand-Pagès who wrote under the pen name Leo Taxil.  For obvious reasons I shall use the pen name when referring to him from here on.
 
Taxil wrote what he called a history of Freemasonry, in four volumes which claimed to contain eye witness accounts of Masonic Satanic activity.  Another book written in 1894 by Leo Taxil and “Dr. Karl Hacks” was titled the Devil in the Nineteenth Century.  This is the book that introduced the character of Diana Vaughan who was supposed to have been involved in Satanic Masonry and an informant for Leo Taxil.
 
The “Luciferian” quote has ever since been repeated by anti-Masonic conspiracy enthusiasts even though its real creator Leo Taxil admitted his hoax.  That’s right!  On April 19, 1897 Leo Taxil called a press conference with the pretension of introducing Diana Vaughan to the public.  When the press was assembled, Taxil began a speech in which he admitted that he had in fact been perpetrating a hoax and that all of his secret information about Freemasonry was a fabrication.

Hey, there's Taxil's name again! Did you even read Morals and Dogma?

Let me provide a quote that is actually from page 324 that should leave no doubt as to who Albert Pike believes Lucifer is:

Quote
The conviction of all men that God is good led to a belief in a Devil, the fallen Lucifer or Light-bearer, Shaitan the Adversary, Ahriman and Tupho_n, as an attempt to explain the existence of Evil, and make it consistent with the Infinite Power, Wisdom, and Benevolence of God.
Now, I have some problems with his theology here as to how the Devil came into exist (I don't think he is real, not just a work of human belief), but this ought to make plain what he means when he uses the word Lucifer, if my explanation earlier was not sufficient.

Threads like this remind me of why I try to avoid debates in general and internet debates in particular. They are a waste of time. I'm done here. If the posts I have made here are not sufficient to show you that these conspiracy theories are wrong, then I do not believe it is within my human capabilities to persuade you. I never thought I'd be such an adamant defender of freemasonry, given my problems with it that I have stated elsewhere, but threads like this sure can turn me into one, I suppose.

As I said before in this reply, if what I have said is too intemperate, blunt, or uncharitable for the standards of this forum, or if I have overstepped my bounds, I do apologize.
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« Reply #195 on: February 21, 2012, 07:37:16 AM »

Now, I have some problems with his theology here as to how the Devil came into exist (I don't think he is real, not just a work of human belief), but this ought to make plain what he means when he uses the word Lucifer, if my explanation earlier was not sufficient.
Pardon, I do believe he is real. This quote had a typo.
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« Reply #196 on: February 21, 2012, 08:29:15 AM »

This is getting hilarious. Maybe everyone's a Mason! Could you be one and not know it? Put your forehead on the pommel end of a baseball bat and spin around, to find out. Wink


I know a Jordan Mason. His dad is a Mason too, and his sister.  Wink
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« Reply #197 on: February 21, 2012, 09:19:18 AM »

 Cheesy
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« Reply #198 on: February 21, 2012, 12:52:10 PM »

Quote
women in America don't normally walk around blindfolded, with a breast exposed, and in checkerboard pants....

Women in America don't usually dress in raw meat either, but that hasn't stopped Lady Gaga has it?

I fail to see how this proves anything masonic is going on.

Because a blindfold, checkboards, and the breast exposed is the Masonic entered apprentice ritual.  If you knew anything about masonry, then you would know that.  It's written in their own documents.   Here is a video on the ritual itself http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaV8-r1E34I

This rather silly thread started following Nicki Minaj's weird 'exorcism' skit. Since she took liberal use of Catholic and Christian symbols and 'artistically' portrayed an actual ritual of the Catholic Church, i.e. exorcism (albeit in a very non-traditional way, to say the least) this must prove she and the 'artists' involved are secret Catholic Church agents, attempting to spread the Catholic Faith by means of the use of  secular 'art' in pop culture. Right? Vested bishops, crosses, stained glass windows, hymns, acolytes are all things utilized in Catholic worship, therefore it must be true.  Yeah...
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« Reply #199 on: February 21, 2012, 01:01:03 PM »

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Brother you are denying something very obvious.

I must charitably correct you, friend, for I am a sister Smiley

Oh thank heavens.  Men with my little ponies are worse than masons.
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« Reply #200 on: February 21, 2012, 01:15:58 PM »

I remember when I was little there was a parade and the masons were all dressed up like secret service agents. They wouldn't smile.  Sad


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Oh thank heavens.  Men with my little ponies are worse than masons.

 Cheesy
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« Reply #201 on: February 21, 2012, 01:21:42 PM »

I remember when I was little there was a parade and the masons were all dressed up like secret service agents. They wouldn't smile.  Sad


Quote
Oh thank heavens.  Men with my little ponies are worse than masons.

 Cheesy

My recollection of them in parades are middle aged or older, heavy set guys in shiny sweats with funny hats riding ridiculously small cars in circles ahead of the clowns.
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« Reply #202 on: February 21, 2012, 01:25:40 PM »

A blindfold and the breast exposed is a sign that you are the state of Justice at the Supreme Court.

Sigh...
 Roll Eyes
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« Reply #203 on: February 21, 2012, 03:01:32 PM »

Sorry.

The blog post only had pink blindfolded, her left breast exposed, and a checkerboard pants leg.
Masonic entered apprentices are blindfolded, left breast exposed, and stand on the checkerboard floor (yes it has occult meaning to masons).

This was a Masonic ritual right in front of you.  I don't understand how some of you can be so blind to this.  I also find it amazing how "the source" is attacked.

"Some blog".  "Some person".  "Some bishop".   LOOK at the photo....
Just because there is a photo near somebody's text, does not mean you have to agree with their text.  But the photo exists.  Period.

I've POSTED QUOTES from Masonic texts that admit Lucifer is their god.  What more do you want?  Wow, such denial of obviousness...

[...]

And be responded with  "NO this is not a luceferian church".  LOL.  Even thought their texts say it is.  Also I'd be responded with "sicksadworld.info" is not a viable source for information.  LOL - sicksadworld.info merely has a photo just like the blog.  No wonder ecumenism has much of the EO church hoodwinked.  

So while the main stream media mocks your sacraments, implements anti-Christian messages to your Christian youth, provokes blasphemy against the church, implements gnostic luciferian teachings into movies you & you kids enjoy - all many can do is deny and critique the sources.  

I think its funny how people here can be so sure about arguments (in other threads) about the Nicean take on the Trinity, OO vs. EO, RC vs. EO - things that happened centuries to millenia ago - with certainty, but deny photographic and video blasphemy & masonry of things that happen "today".

So rather than ranting further, or even discussing these things on this board further I would like to see which people would be willing to ruin their full credibility by:
1) Denying that Freemasonry believes Lucifer as God.
2) Believes Freemasonry is only a fraternity (with an altar)

I have the book freemasons revere and love, written by a 33 degree mason right here in my hands.  Now let's see who denies it.


I have dealt with these issues in your other thread on Orthodox Freemasons in this forum here (and before that one, here). I even admitted you were right (or in the right general area) in a couple of points there.

In particular, this section from the first post I linked to:

Quote
As for your quote from pg 321, how about providing a little more context for those words. Like so:

The Apocalypse is, to those who receive the nineteenth Degree, the Apothesis of that Sublime Faith which aspires to God alone,  and despises all the pomps and works of Lucifer. LUCIFER, the  Light-bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give to the Spirit of Darkness! Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! Is it he who  bears the Light, and with its splendors intolerable blinds feeble, for traditions are full of sensual or selfish Souls ? Doubt it not!  Divine Revelations and Inspirations: and Inspiration is not of  one Age nor of one Creed. Plato and Philo, also, were inspired.  The Apocalypse, indeed, is a book as obscure as the Sohar.  It is written hieroglyphically with numbers and images; and  the Apostle often appeals to the intelligence of the Initiated.  “Let him who hath knowledge, understand! let him who understands, calculate !” he often says, after an allegory or the mention  of a number. Saint John, the favorite Apostle, and the Depositary  of all the Secrets of the Saviour, therefore did not write to be  understood by the multitude.

Now we know that Lucifer, as in the Devil, can appear as an angel of light, and that his light can blind the feeble. We know that the churches throughout history (traditions) have had their share of believers who have been selfish and sensual at one time or another in their lives (just as those who are not Christian have been) leaving them open to being led astray by the Devil's false light. Also, Pike is clearly surprised that the name "Lucifer" is associated with the Prince of Darkness.

And we have proof, furthermore, that the word "lucifer" with a lowercase letter L is used to refer to Jesus. See here:

2 Peter 1:19

19 Et habemus firmiorem propheticum sermonem : cui benefacitis attendentes quasi lucernæ lucenti in caliginoso loco donec dies elucescat, et lucifer oriatur in cordibus vestris:

In English:

19 And we have the more firm prophetical word: whereunto you do well to attend, as to a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawn and the day star arise in your hearts.

From that "day star" link:

The name Lucifer originally denotes the planet Venus, emphasizing its brilliance. The Vulgate employs the word also for "the light of the morning" (Job 11:17), "the signs of the zodiac" (Job 38:32), and "the aurora" (Psalm 109:3). Metaphorically, the word is applied to the King of Babylon (Isaiah 14:12) as preeminent among the princes of his time; to the high priest Simon son of Onias (Ecclesiasticus 50:6), for his surpassing virtue, to the glory of heaven (Apocalypse 2:28), by reason of its excellency; finally to Jesus Christ himself (2 Peter 1:19; Apocalypse 22:16; the "Exultet" of Holy Saturday) the true light of our spiritual life.

But, and this is a critical distinction, when Jesus is referred to as "lucifer" it is always with a lower case l. Jesus is NEVER referred to as "Lucifer" with a capital L. The Devil, meanwhile, is the capital L Lucifer. Albert Pike is referring to the capital L Lucifer in his text, as we can plainly see.

The fact that you have not addressed could mean a couple of things. First of all, it could mean that I am right. Secondly, it could mean that you have no interest in evidence that stands contrary to your particular point of view. Third, it might demonstrate either an ignorance of history/etymology (particularly of the word Lucifer), and an inability to place things in proper context.

All of this is merely conjecture on my part, of course, but I don't think it's entirely baseless. If I have lacked sufficient charity or overstepped my bounds here, I do apologize, but I am merely trying to call things out as I see them.

The reason why we have not taken these websites seriously is not because we wish to shield ourselves from the truth or that we refuse to take the "hard medicine". It is because they are laughable. In any serious discussion forum other than here, those sites would have been drowned out in tides of justly earned laughter and ridicule, and the person posting them would probably be treated with much less charity than even the worst of us have extended to you in this thread. That Vigiliant Citizen site, for example, reminds me of the Perry Stone types. What the Bible plainly says is not good enough for them. No, there have to be hidden meanings and codes everywhere in the text foretelling all sorts of things, not the least of which is the Apocalypse. So it is the same with these mason sites you cite. The government blew up the WTC, the moon landing was staged, the chemtrails are over my house, and the masons are everywhere and quite literally hellbent on world domination and controlling our minds.

Conspiracy theories are conjured up by fervent imaginations who quite often cannot accept that the truth is so simple. Sometimes a spade is just a spade.

Also, most of the information you have posted can be traced rather directly to a well debunked hoax created by Leo Taxil. It was something he later retracted. If that is not enough, one of Taxil's contemporaries A.E. wrote an entire book, Devil Worship in France, debunking the hoax and the idea that freemason's worshiped the Devil. The author should should know a thing or two about the occult, since he practiced it!

Since you're so fond of mentioning Youtube, try this one.

Though I'm not sure if you have here, I have seen you post the "Yes, LUCIFER IS GOD, and unfortunately Adonay is also god..." passage before. You have cited pages 321 and 324 as the sources of the passage. I'm looking at those pages right now and cannot find the passages in question. This guy could not either, because it does not exist. Behold:

Quote
The origin of this “quote” is from a book entitled Woman and Child in Universal Freemasonry published by Abel Clarin de la Rive.  The “Luciferian Quote” in this book is credited in a foot note to a woman by the name of Diana Vaughan.  Diana Vaughan was a character introduced in the writings of a man named Marie Joseph Gabriel Antoine Jogand-Pagès who wrote under the pen name Leo Taxil.  For obvious reasons I shall use the pen name when referring to him from here on.
 
Taxil wrote what he called a history of Freemasonry, in four volumes which claimed to contain eye witness accounts of Masonic Satanic activity.  Another book written in 1894 by Leo Taxil and “Dr. Karl Hacks” was titled the Devil in the Nineteenth Century.  This is the book that introduced the character of Diana Vaughan who was supposed to have been involved in Satanic Masonry and an informant for Leo Taxil.
 
The “Luciferian” quote has ever since been repeated by anti-Masonic conspiracy enthusiasts even though its real creator Leo Taxil admitted his hoax.  That’s right!  On April 19, 1897 Leo Taxil called a press conference with the pretension of introducing Diana Vaughan to the public.  When the press was assembled, Taxil began a speech in which he admitted that he had in fact been perpetrating a hoax and that all of his secret information about Freemasonry was a fabrication.

Hey, there's Taxil's name again! Did you even read Morals and Dogma?

Let me provide a quote that is actually from page 324 that should leave no doubt as to who Albert Pike believes Lucifer is:

Quote
The conviction of all men that God is good led to a belief in a Devil, the fallen Lucifer or Light-bearer, Shaitan the Adversary, Ahriman and Tupho_n, as an attempt to explain the existence of Evil, and make it consistent with the Infinite Power, Wisdom, and Benevolence of God.
Now, I have some problems with his theology here as to how the Devil came into exist (I don't think he is real, not just a work of human belief), but this ought to make plain what he means when he uses the word Lucifer, if my explanation earlier was not sufficient.

Threads like this remind me of why I try to avoid debates in general and internet debates in particular. They are a waste of time. I'm done here. If the posts I have made here are not sufficient to show you that these conspiracy theories are wrong, then I do not believe it is within my human capabilities to persuade you. I never thought I'd be such an adamant defender of freemasonry, given my problems with it that I have stated elsewhere, but threads like this sure can turn me into one, I suppose.

As I said before in this reply, if what I have said is too intemperate, blunt, or uncharitable for the standards of this forum, or if I have overstepped my bounds, I do apologize.

This is exactly the way that Masons trick their members into believing that Lucifer is Jesus.  Comparing "Day Star" and "Morning Star".   They mean two different things.

Here rather than giving you a book - http://www.ephesians5-11.org/gllink.htm  - This link has MANY quotes from many masonic texts.  As for people who will jump on me for internet "sources" - this page contains excerpts from Masonic books.

This is not a conspiracy theory.  Masons have incredible power over our nation, media, and television "programming".
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« Reply #204 on: February 21, 2012, 03:07:53 PM »

Quote
women in America don't normally walk around blindfolded, with a breast exposed, and in checkerboard pants....

Women in America don't usually dress in raw meat either, but that hasn't stopped Lady Gaga has it?

I fail to see how this proves anything masonic is going on.

Because a blindfold, checkboards, and the breast exposed is the Masonic entered apprentice ritual.  If you knew anything about masonry, then you would know that.  It's written in their own documents.   Here is a video on the ritual itself http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaV8-r1E34I

This rather silly thread started following Nicki Minaj's weird 'exorcism' skit. Since she took liberal use of Catholic and Christian symbols and 'artistically' portrayed an actual ritual of the Catholic Church, i.e. exorcism (albeit in a very non-traditional way, to say the least) this must prove she and the 'artists' involved are secret Catholic Church agents, attempting to spread the Catholic Faith by means of the use of  secular 'art' in pop culture. Right? Vested bishops, crosses, stained glass windows, hymns, acolytes are all things utilized in Catholic worship, therefore it must be true.  Yeah...

Well it certainly wasn't a song about grasshoppers, flowers, or a pretty river, cars, gold, food, play dough, or good family values.    Rather, she blasphemes the sacrament of confession and unction, and even spreads her legs around the arm of the priest praying.  It was approved for television and broad casted to millions of people.  All paid for by advertising.  The costume, sets, props, pyrotechnics & smoke, and dance routine were all approved.   It certainly didn't look like a spur of the moment thing to me.

Conspiracy to blaspheme?  Well if it wasn't a conspiracy, then certainly it was one heck of a coincidence.
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« Reply #205 on: February 21, 2012, 03:08:29 PM »

YIM, please read The Freemasons: A History of the World's Most Powerful Secret Society by Jasper Ridley, if you want an actual objective history and understanding of the Freemasons.

What you have spouted here is complete fiction.
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« Reply #206 on: February 21, 2012, 03:14:11 PM »

I remember when I was little there was a parade and the masons were all dressed up like secret service agents. They wouldn't smile.  Sad


Quote
Oh thank heavens.  Men with my little ponies are worse than masons.

 Cheesy

My recollection of them in parades are middle aged or older, heavy set guys in shiny sweats with funny hats riding ridiculously small cars in circles ahead of the clowns.

Shriners.  Their hat was called a FEZ.
If you care to read about the fez http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/obscene_red_fezzies.htm
also http://www.bibleprobe.com/freemasonry.htm has info on the fez.
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« Reply #207 on: February 21, 2012, 03:18:45 PM »

YIM, please read The Freemasons: A History of the World's Most Powerful Secret Society by Jasper Ridley, if you want an actual objective history and understanding of the Freemasons.

What you have spouted here is complete fiction.

Prove its fiction, lets see your source.  I have their texts that call lucifer God.  I have copies of their initiation rituals where they blaspheme God such as :

In the Royal Arch degree of the York Rite, the  Companion Captain  of the Host is asked if he is a Royal Arch Mason and  he replies  "I am, that I am."

I've given out page numbers of their texts. 

So if "I'm spouting fiction", where are your facts?  I have their books & texts brother.
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« Reply #208 on: February 21, 2012, 03:31:26 PM »

YIM, please read The Freemasons: A History of the World's Most Powerful Secret Society by Jasper Ridley, if you want an actual objective history and understanding of the Freemasons.

What you have spouted here is complete fiction.

Prove its fiction, lets see your source.  I have their texts that call lucifer God.  I have copies of their initiation rituals where they blaspheme God such as :

In the Royal Arch degree of the York Rite, the  Companion Captain  of the Host is asked if he is a Royal Arch Mason and  he replies  "I am, that I am."

I've given out page numbers of their texts.  

So if "I'm spouting fiction", where are your facts?  I have their books & texts brother.

Thank you, yesh, for exposing the Masonic conspiracy behind Popeye, as well.
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« Reply #209 on: February 21, 2012, 04:58:36 PM »

This is exactly the way that Masons trick their members into believing that Lucifer is Jesus.  Comparing "Day Star" and "Morning Star".   They mean two different things.  

We do worship Lucifer.

As I said in another thread, if people are going to get all pseudo-intellectual, then they get held to the absurd standard they are attempting to maintain.

EDIT: I'll let the Latin Mass Nerds take over, once you go nuts about the statement above.

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« Reply #210 on: February 21, 2012, 08:11:02 PM »

Against my better judgment, and perhaps out of a sense of intellectual masochism, I have returned.


This is exactly the way that Masons trick their members into believing that Lucifer is Jesus. 
How convenient that you would say that.

Quote
Comparing "Day Star" and "Morning Star".   They mean two different things.
It's irrelevant what we call him in English. The fact is that the word "lucifer" is used in Latin to refer to both Jesus and the Devil, with the critical distinction I outlined.

Quote
Here rather than giving you a book - http://www.ephesians5-11.org/gllink.htm  - This link has MANY quotes from many masonic texts.  As for people who will jump on me for internet "sources" - this page contains excerpts from Masonic books.
Pike makes it very clear what he means when he says "Lucifer". "[T]he fallen Lucifer or Light-bearer, Shaitan the Adversary, Ahriman and Tupho_n, as an attempt to explain the existence of Evil".

It is impossible for that passage by Levi to have influenced Pike's Morals and Dogma. This is made evident by two things:

1) Pike makes very clear who he thinks Lucifer is, and it is a definition that is very much opposed to Levi's belief. On page 324 of M&D, Pike says: "the fallen Lucifer or Light-bearer, Shaitan the Adversary, Ahriman and Tupho_n, as an attempt to explain the existence of Evil".
2) Pike's Morals and Dogma was published in 1871. The book that particular passage of Levi was taken from was published in 1883. That's over a decade later than Pike.

Levi was a mason, but he left the order long before the 1880s. He left in the early 1860s. He was involved with some order called the "Golden Dawn" later, but no legitimate masonic lodge as one of their own.

Quote
This is not a conspiracy theory.  Masons have incredible power over our nation, media, and television "programming".
Roll Eyes

Anyways, you have not explained how the only supposed passage from M&D inferring Satanic worship is a complete fabrication. You have not directly addressed my refutations. All you have done is spout talking points, post links claiming they'll fix our perspectives when they only say the same crap, and shut out any opposing point of view as masonic lies.
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« Reply #211 on: February 21, 2012, 08:23:54 PM »

I'll say it, so Orthonorm doesn't have to wait for other people to get the joke: Jesus is referred to as 'bright and the morning star' in Revelation, if I remember correctly.
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« Reply #212 on: February 21, 2012, 09:21:47 PM »

YIM, please read The Freemasons: A History of the World's Most Powerful Secret Society by Jasper Ridley, if you want an actual objective history and understanding of the Freemasons.

What you have spouted here is complete fiction.

Prove its fiction, lets see your source.  I have their texts that call lucifer God.
You have forgeries and mutilated contexts.
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« Reply #213 on: February 22, 2012, 12:09:38 PM »

Here is the Satanic prayer I used to open lodge last Monday:

"Most holy and glorious Lord God, the Great Architect of the Universe: the Giver of all good gifts and graces! Thou hast promised that, "where two or three are gathered together in Thy name, Thou wilt be in their midst and bless them. In Thy name was have assembled, and in Thy name we desire to proceed in all our doings. Grant that the sublime principles of Freemasonry may so subdue every discordant passion within us—so harmonize and enrich our hearts with Thine own love and goodness—that the Lodge at this time may humbly reflect that order and beauty which reign for ever before Thy throne.—Amen."

And at closing:

"SUPREME Architect of the Universe, accept our humble thanks for the many mercies and blessings which Thy bounty has conferred on us, and especially for this friendly and social intercourse. Pardon, we beseech Thee, whatever Thou hast seen amiss in us since we have been together; and continue to us Thy presence, protection, and blessing. Make us sensible of the renewed obligations we are under to love Thee, and as we are about to separate, and return to our respective places of abode, wilt Thou be pleased so to influence our hearts and minds, that we may each one of us practice, out of the Lodge, those great moral duties which are inculcated in it, and with reverence study and obey the laws which Thou hast given us in thy Holy Word.—Amen."

These direct references to the words of Christ and praise of the Bible sure are demonic!
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« Reply #214 on: February 22, 2012, 12:12:50 PM »

To play Devil's Advocate (no pun intended), one would retort with "The Great Architect" is not a name for God and therefore the prayer could not be attributed to Him. I've heard alot of these arguments before.
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« Reply #215 on: February 22, 2012, 12:15:58 PM »

To play Devil's Advocate (no pun intended), one would retort with "The Great Architect" is not a name for God and therefore the prayer could not be attributed to Him. I've heard alot of these arguments before.

The first response would be, "then who designed the universe?" A second response, which I think is more compelling, is who promised, "For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst."?
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« Reply #216 on: February 22, 2012, 12:31:32 PM »

Quote
The first response would be, "then who designed the universe?"
That depends on who you ask. It gets even murkier if there is a Muslim Mason, or a Jewish one.

Quote
"For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst."?
Something an Atheist Mason would argue. Poor arguments really.

Please understand that I'm all not Mr. Tinfoil hat. I just know alot of these arguments as where I live is heavily anti-Mason (note: yet most of the judges are Masons...as are the farmers and cops.....)

PP
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« Reply #217 on: February 22, 2012, 12:40:45 PM »

Quote
The first response would be, "then who designed the universe?"
That depends on who you ask. It gets even murkier if there is a Muslim Mason, or a Jewish one.

Ok, but so what? If the argument is against generic prayer, then that is hardly unique to the Masons. Perhaps a Christian should also never be a member of Congress or the local Boy Scout troop, either.

Quote
Quote
"For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst."?
Something an Atheist Mason would argue. Poor arguments really.

Please understand that I'm all not Mr. Tinfoil hat. I just know alot of these arguments as where I live is heavily anti-Mason (note: yet most of the judges are Masons...as are the farmers and cops.....)

PP

There is no such thing as an atheist Mason. I bet atheists also say that the capital of Nebraska is Lincoln. Who cares what an atheist would say?

The cited opening prayer specifically references Christ's words, "For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst" and attributes them to whom is prayer is directed. It's quite explicit.
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« Reply #218 on: February 22, 2012, 12:45:23 PM »

Quote
Ok, but so what? If the argument is against generic prayer, then that is hardly unique to the Masons. Perhaps a Christian should also never be a member of Congress or the local Boy Scout troop, either
That is my meaning. A generic prayer really is not in Christ's name. You can use His words, but that does not mean everyone there is gathered in Christ's name.

PP
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« Reply #219 on: February 22, 2012, 12:52:26 PM »

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Ok, but so what? If the argument is against generic prayer, then that is hardly unique to the Masons. Perhaps a Christian should also never be a member of Congress or the local Boy Scout troop, either
That is my meaning. A generic prayer really is not in Christ's name. You can use His words, but that does not mean everyone there is gathered in Christ's name.

PP

He didn't say "when everyone in the room is gathered in my name", but "when two or three are gathered in my name". If two Christians are gathered in His name while an unbeliever is also in the room, does it not count?

I wonder if the Lord's Prayer counts as "generic prayer". It is simply to "Our Father". Who is "Our Father" is a Muslim or Jew?

(fun fact: at every installation ceremony I have attended, the outgoing master is presented with a framed copy of the Lord's Prayer)
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« Reply #220 on: February 22, 2012, 01:10:30 PM »

YIM, please read The Freemasons: A History of the World's Most Powerful Secret Society by Jasper Ridley, if you want an actual objective history and understanding of the Freemasons.

What you have spouted here is complete fiction.

Prove its fiction, lets see your source.  I have their texts that call lucifer God.  I have copies of their initiation rituals where they blaspheme God such as :

In the Royal Arch degree of the York Rite, the  Companion Captain  of the Host is asked if he is a Royal Arch Mason and  he replies  "I am, that I am."

I've given out page numbers of their texts.  

So if "I'm spouting fiction", where are your facts?  I have their books & texts brother.

Thank you, yesh, for exposing the Masonic conspiracy behind Popeye, as well.


Uhm... What?
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« Reply #221 on: February 22, 2012, 01:13:57 PM »

Against my better judgment, and perhaps out of a sense of intellectual masochism, I have returned.


This is exactly the way that Masons trick their members into believing that Lucifer is Jesus. 
How convenient that you would say that.

Quote
Comparing "Day Star" and "Morning Star".   They mean two different things.
It's irrelevant what we call him in English. The fact is that the word "lucifer" is used in Latin to refer to both Jesus and the Devil, with the critical distinction I outlined.

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Here rather than giving you a book - http://www.ephesians5-11.org/gllink.htm  - This link has MANY quotes from many masonic texts.  As for people who will jump on me for internet "sources" - this page contains excerpts from Masonic books.
Pike makes it very clear what he means when he says "Lucifer". "[T]he fallen Lucifer or Light-bearer, Shaitan the Adversary, Ahriman and Tupho_n, as an attempt to explain the existence of Evil".

It is impossible for that passage by Levi to have influenced Pike's Morals and Dogma. This is made evident by two things:

1) Pike makes very clear who he thinks Lucifer is, and it is a definition that is very much opposed to Levi's belief. On page 324 of M&D, Pike says: "the fallen Lucifer or Light-bearer, Shaitan the Adversary, Ahriman and Tupho_n, as an attempt to explain the existence of Evil".
2) Pike's Morals and Dogma was published in 1871. The book that particular passage of Levi was taken from was published in 1883. That's over a decade later than Pike.

Levi was a mason, but he left the order long before the 1880s. He left in the early 1860s. He was involved with some order called the "Golden Dawn" later, but no legitimate masonic lodge as one of their own.

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This is not a conspiracy theory.  Masons have incredible power over our nation, media, and television "programming".
Roll Eyes

Anyways, you have not explained how the only supposed passage from M&D inferring Satanic worship is a complete fabrication. You have not directly addressed my refutations. All you have done is spout talking points, post links claiming they'll fix our perspectives when they only say the same crap, and shut out any opposing point of view as masonic lies.

Funny how you mention LATIN to justify Pike to make the comparison of Jesus and Lucifer.

Lucifer was written in Hebrew (Isaiah) in the bible, and Jesus was written in Greek.   
The rest of your point was based on that.
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« Reply #222 on: February 22, 2012, 01:19:23 PM »

Quote
The first response would be, "then who designed the universe?"
That depends on who you ask. It gets even murkier if there is a Muslim Mason, or a Jewish one.

Ok, but so what? If the argument is against generic prayer, then that is hardly unique to the Masons. Perhaps a Christian should also never be a member of Congress or the local Boy Scout troop, either.

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"For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst."?
Something an Atheist Mason would argue. Poor arguments really.

Please understand that I'm all not Mr. Tinfoil hat. I just know alot of these arguments as where I live is heavily anti-Mason (note: yet most of the judges are Masons...as are the farmers and cops.....)

PP

There is no such thing as an atheist Mason. I bet atheists also say that the capital of Nebraska is Lincoln. Who cares what an atheist would say?

The cited opening prayer specifically references Christ's words, "For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst" and attributes them to whom is prayer is directed. It's quite explicit.


Generic prayer does not hold true to the Canon of the Holy Apostles on how a Christian should pray.   Generic prayer does not "Have no God before me" nor does it follow "I am the way, and the truth, and the life, no one comes to the father except through me".   You are baiting for the Boy Scout argument again.

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« Reply #223 on: February 22, 2012, 01:24:56 PM »

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Ok, but so what? If the argument is against generic prayer, then that is hardly unique to the Masons. Perhaps a Christian should also never be a member of Congress or the local Boy Scout troop, either
That is my meaning. A generic prayer really is not in Christ's name. You can use His words, but that does not mean everyone there is gathered in Christ's name.

PP

He didn't say "when everyone in the room is gathered in my name", but "when two or three are gathered in my name". If two Christians are gathered in His name while an unbeliever is also in the room, does it not count?

I wonder if the Lord's Prayer counts as "generic prayer". It is simply to "Our Father". Who is "Our Father" is a Muslim or Jew?

(fun fact: at every installation ceremony I have attended, the outgoing master is presented with a framed copy of the Lord's Prayer)

No, the Lord's prayer is not generic.  It's the model prayer given to us by Jesus.  Since we are not supposed to call any man "Father" because "Our Father is in heaven" as Jesus said, we are addressing our Christian God using the Lord's prayer.

Also, your fun fact, "the outgoing master"... - Jesus commanded us to "Call no man master".   Just because somebody is presented with the Lord's prayer, it can be easily distorted by interpretation for those who do not understand or have contorted the understanding.  You yourself just asked if it could be generic, which it should not be considered.
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« Reply #224 on: February 22, 2012, 01:29:57 PM »

Generic prayer does not hold true to the Canon of the Holy Apostles on how a Christian should pray.   Generic prayer does not "Have no God before me" nor does it follow "I am the way, and the truth, and the life, no one comes to the father except through me".   You are baiting for the Boy Scout argument again.


I do not know what the "Boy Scout" argument is. Is it also the "Serving in Congress" argument or the "serving in the military" argument?
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