Roman mass questions...

[Peter J]

Interestingly enough, a month after Trevor, the original poster, claims on the Fish Eaters website that he wants to become Roman-Catholic: http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3424002.40.html (user ServantofGod)
AND
http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3449489.msg33707648.html#msg33707648

From the OP of the second link:

I've spoken with an RC priest.  He said "it should be easy for you."

Frankly I can't believe how many people will say that to someone who's thinking of leaving Orthodoxy for Catholicism, or vice versa.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I would never consider becoming Orthodox; but I'm saying it could never be an "easy" thing for me to do, as it would mean leaving Catholicism.

[J Michael]

Interestingly enough, a month after Trevor, the original poster, claims on the Fish Eaters website that he wants to become Roman-Catholic: http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3424002.40.html (user ServantofGod)
AND
http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3449489.msg33707648.html#msg33707648

From the OP of the second link:

I've spoken with an RC priest.  He said "it should be easy for you."

Frankly I can't believe how many people will say that to someone who's thinking of leaving Orthodoxy for Catholicism, or vice versa.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I would never consider becoming Orthodox; but I'm saying it could never be an "easy" thing for me to do, as it would mean leaving Catholicism.

How difficult can it be to go to confession and recite the Profession of Faith?  Guess it depends on the person and the priest and why they are going from Orthodoxy to Catholicism or vice-versa.  Maybe the priest said that on the basis of what was said to him by the poster.  Without knowing the specifics of any given case, it's difficult from outside to judge or assess just how difficult or easy the process would be.

Now...if you're referring to the process of discernment about making the change...that is or could be a whole other kettle of fish.  With some people it takes years.  With others, a much shorter time.

[Peter J]

Interestingly enough, a month after Trevor, the original poster, claims on the Fish Eaters website that he wants to become Roman-Catholic: http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3424002.40.html (user ServantofGod)
AND
http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3449489.msg33707648.html#msg33707648

From the OP of the second link:

I've spoken with an RC priest.  He said "it should be easy for you."

Frankly I can't believe how many people will say that to someone who's thinking of leaving Orthodoxy for Catholicism, or vice versa.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I would never consider becoming Orthodox; but I'm saying it could never be an "easy" thing for me to do, as it would mean leaving Catholicism.

How difficult can it be to go to confession and recite the Profession of Faith?

I think you may have just proven my point.

[Peter J]

Guess it depends on the person and the priest and why they are going from Orthodoxy to Catholicism or vice-versa.  Maybe the priest said that on the basis of what was said to him by the poster.  Without knowing the specifics of any given case, it's difficult from outside to judge or assess just how difficult or easy the process would be.

That's certainly true.

[J Michael]

Interestingly enough, a month after Trevor, the original poster, claims on the Fish Eaters website that he wants to become Roman-Catholic: http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3424002.40.html (user ServantofGod)
AND
http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3449489.msg33707648.html#msg33707648

From the OP of the second link:

I've spoken with an RC priest.  He said "it should be easy for you."

Frankly I can't believe how many people will say that to someone who's thinking of leaving Orthodoxy for Catholicism, or vice versa.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I would never consider becoming Orthodox; but I'm saying it could never be an "easy" thing for me to do, as it would mean leaving Catholicism.

How difficult can it be to go to confession and recite the Profession of Faith?

I think you may have just proven my point.

How so?

[Peter J]

I think you may have just proven my point.

How so?

Addressing the difficulty of leaving Catholicism for Orthodoxy, or vice versa, by saying "How difficult can it be to go to confession and recite the Profession of Faith?"

I know for myself, under the circumstances we are discussing, doing those 2 things would be extremely difficult.

[J Michael]

I think you may have just proven my point.

How so?

Addressing the difficulty of leaving Catholicism for Orthodoxy, or vice versa, by saying "How difficult can it be to go to confession and recite the Profession of Faith?"

Hmm....J Michael scratching his head...I wasn't and didn't mean to make light of it.  I know what it's like.

The "immediate" process of receiving the Sacrament of Reconciliation and then absolution, followed by a profession of faith, in and of itself, can't be all *that* difficult--again, depending on the person, etc.  What can be a long, difficult, sometimes very trying process is getting to the point of making that  Confession, etc.  The two things cannot be totally separated, one from the other.  So...easy (to varying degrees) for some, difficult (to varying degrees) for others.

[J Michael]

I think you may have just proven my point.

How so?

Addressing the difficulty of leaving Catholicism for Orthodoxy, or vice versa, by saying "How difficult can it be to go to confession and recite the Profession of Faith?"

I know for myself, under the circumstances we are discussing, doing those 2 things would be extremely difficult.

Perhaps, though, *once* you had discerned that that was the right thing for you to do, that that was where God was leading you, those 2 things, Confession and Profession of Faith, would come quite easily and be quite freeing.  Or....perhaps not.  Everyone's different.  Thank God!

[ialmisry]

Interestingly enough, a month after Trevor, the original poster, claims on the Fish Eaters website that he wants to become Roman-Catholic: http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3424002.40.html (user ServantofGod)
AND
http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3449489.msg33707648.html#msg33707648

He wised up

I just want to say:  One thing I thought was interesting was that, were this 5 months ago, I might of felt more at home at this mass.  I'm happy to report that I felt like an Orthodox Christian in a Roman Catholic Church 

[Peter J]

Interestingly enough, a month after Trevor, the original poster, claims on the Fish Eaters website that he wants to become Roman-Catholic: http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3424002.40.html (user ServantofGod)
AND
http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3449489.msg33707648.html#msg33707648

He wised up

I just want to say:  One thing I thought was interesting was that, were this 5 months ago, I might of felt more at home at this mass.  I'm happy to report that I felt like an Orthodox Christian in a Roman Catholic Church 

I'm not really familiar with that expression. What does it mean to "feel like an Orthodox Christian in a Roman Catholic Church"?

[ialmisry]

Interestingly enough, a month after Trevor, the original poster, claims on the Fish Eaters website that he wants to become Roman-Catholic: http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3424002.40.html (user ServantofGod)
AND
http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3449489.msg33707648.html#msg33707648

He wised up

I just want to say:  One thing I thought was interesting was that, were this 5 months ago, I might of felt more at home at this mass.  I'm happy to report that I felt like an Orthodox Christian in a Roman Catholic Church 

I'm not really familiar with that expression. What does it mean to "feel like an Orthodox Christian in a Roman Catholic Church"?

A stranger in a strange land.  IOW, when in Rome, you DON'T want to do as the Romans do.

[Ortho_cat]

i noticed that the incense used during the first week of lent was very "watered-down" for lack of a better word. I think it was because the services were very physical, and the chapel was confined, so I'm sure they didn't want anyone to have an asthma attack. It was "lighter" than normal incense I could tell that for sure.

[Ortho_cat]

Interestingly enough, a month after Trevor, the original poster, claims on the Fish Eaters website that he wants to become Roman-Catholic: http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3424002.40.html (user ServantofGod)
AND
http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3449489.msg33707648.html#msg33707648

He wised up

I just want to say:  One thing I thought was interesting was that, were this 5 months ago, I might of felt more at home at this mass.  I'm happy to report that I felt like an Orthodox Christian in a Roman Catholic Church 

I'm not really familiar with that expression. What does it mean to "feel like an Orthodox Christian in a Roman Catholic Church"?

A stranger in a strange land.  IOW, when in Rome, you DON'T want to do as the Romans do.

lol a strange feeling indeed...

[Christopher McAvoy]

The fact that on a practical level the Latin Church will probably take 50 + years to revert back to a model of liturgical and theological tradition superficially comparable to the average Eastern (or even Western) Orthodox Church (the "heaven on earth" type sensation) is a reason that makes the decision to switch over rather easy for some. Assuming it hell does not prevail against it.

This is the kind of thing that makes Roman Catholic polemics vis-a-vis Protestantism, and even Orthodoxy so hollow. Much is made of the diverseness of Protestant denominations in supposed contrast to Rome’s dogged adherence throughout the ages to the Faith once given to the saints. And the number of Roman priests who say that Orthodoxy is a no good "state communist church" without integrity is a ridiculous statement too. I've heard that one a million times.

Now family is very powerful and a good reason to make decisions, thats really the only sympathy I have for people making otherwise seemingly less rational decisions. The Church itself is like a big family. In that sense I sympathize with brother trevor's plight. Many people stay in churches because of family attachments, this is perhaps a holy intention i cant argue against personally. Only in my instance, my grandmothers intentional cremation being promoted by the latin church and attending that funeral in the most liberal iconoclastic superficial building i've ever been in with a "pseudo-hippy priest" and buddhist style censer was enough to make me desire to have nothing to do with Rome at all. Not going to a funeral with a body at it is the worst thing in the world. It's like your relative was in a natural disaster or war, a very hollow experience psychologically. It is intrigueing the opposite experiences people have.

In fact, if, say, I were an Orthodox person who was going to convert to Rome, I would have to accept what seems to me an enormously latitudinarian denomination of a Church, something that accommodates almost everything — from the conservative Roman Catholic homeschoolers who impress me so much, to prelates and professors very liberal about doctrine and practice; and finally it’s all good, all are welcome at the altar.

It seems to me that Roman Catholics who see themselves as the faithful remnant are basically in the position of choosing which faction they will identify with, which books they will read, and where they will go to church, very much as the orthodox remnant in Anglicanism does. Unless one has an Eastern catholic, anglican use, traditional latin parish around them, theres not much one can do to avoid the negative qualities of the average "mainstream novus ordo/spirit of vatican II". The feeling you have when you know a portion of your tithing is going into some united nations "human development" campaign that the USCCB bought into and doesnt publicize and helps dissident aithets (Michael Voris covered this on youtube a while back). When the older generation is gone things may change faster than we think..but Ill believe it when I see it.

Thirty years or so ago the claims of Rome really did give me pause. But that was then. Many couldn’t adjust to the protestant qualities now. All one has to do is read the biography of Donald Wuerls tenure as bishop of Pittsburg in the late 80's. He advocated and held conferences calling for protestants and catholics to have open communion together..these days the man is a Cardinal.  It almost reminds me of the videos of the dog walking into the middle of the mass on youtube. Maybe the dog will be cardinal next. Yeah, I'm joking, but the way things have been..it almost seems like an idea someone will come up with. After women's ordination..pet ordination.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6FqGGVJjPA

[Christopher McAvoy]

With all that said, there is this one caveat, which is worth stating, and maybe is the sort of influence that trevor would be sympathetic too. I know I would be once that day comes, if it does.

"Pope Benedict XVI. really doesn't have any other alternative than to reconcile with the Traditionalists. Because  they are growing from year to year (lay people and seminarians - and novus ordo is not growing) -kreuz.net"

And that my friends is from my perspective a most positive potential development for the Latin Church.
Good ol' SSPX reconciliation.

[stanley123]

All one has to do is read the biography of Donald Wuerls tenure as bishop of Pittsburg in the late 80's. He advocated and held conferences calling for protestants and catholics to have open communion together..these days the man is a Cardinal.

I haven't heard about that one. Would you have a link for this?

[Peter J]

I'm not really familiar with that expression. What does it mean to "feel like an Orthodox Christian in a Roman Catholic Church"?

A stranger in a strange land.  IOW, when in Rome, you DON'T want to do as the Romans do.

Well then I can relate to that. I feel like an Orthodox Christian in a Roman Catholic Church whenever I'm in an Orthodox Church.

[Peter J]

Now family is very powerful and a good reason to make decisions, thats really the only sympathy I have for people making otherwise seemingly less rational decisions. The Church itself is like a big family. In that sense I sympathize with brother trevor's plight. Many people stay in churches because of family attachments, this is perhaps a holy intention i cant argue against personally. Only in my instance, my grandmothers intentional cremation being promoted by the latin church and attending that funeral in the most liberal iconoclastic superficial building i've ever been in with a "pseudo-hippy priest" and buddhist style censer was enough to make me desire to have nothing to do with Rome at all. Not going to a funeral with a body at it is the worst thing in the world. It's like your relative was in a natural disaster or war, a very hollow experience psychologically. It is intrigueing the opposite experiences people have.

In fact, if, say, I were an Orthodox person who was going to convert to Rome, I would have to accept what seems to me an enormously latitudinarian denomination of a Church, something that accommodates almost everything — from the conservative Roman Catholic homeschoolers who impress me so much, to prelates and professors very liberal about doctrine and practice; and finally it’s all good, all are welcome at the altar.

I wouldn't recommend voicing those opinions in Catholic circles. Or at least, if you do then be prepared to get a lot of suggestions that you depart for Eastern Orthodoxy and don't-let-the-door-hit-you-on-the-way-out.

[Peter J]

This is the kind of thing that makes Roman Catholic polemics vis-a-vis Protestantism, and even Orthodoxy so hollow. Much is made of the diverseness of Protestant denominations in supposed contrast to Rome’s dogged adherence throughout the ages to the Faith once given to the saints.

Well consider: the term Protestantism encompasses Lutherans (and sometimes Anglicans), Methodists, Calvinists, Baptists, Pentecostals, and Congregationalists (and even others). So it is far more diverse (and less united) than Catholicism.

[Christopher McAvoy]

Well consider: the term Protestantism encompasses Lutherans (and sometimes Anglicans), Methodists, Calvinists, Baptists, Pentecostals, and Congregationalists (and even others). So it is far more diverse (and less united) than Catholicism.

yes, that was an exaggeration, I made, I agree. There is more unity in Catholicism, though not as much as there should be or was in the past.

As for cardinal Donal Wuerl, an article in the January 23, 1989 Pittsburgh Press, "Breaking Bread — Wuerl Wants Denominations to Share Communion," dealt with a meeting between the Bishop Wuerl and six Protestant denominations

"to work with the Catholic Church toward the possibility of sharing Communion together...Wuerl stressed that local church leaders have had years of experience working together on social projects through Christian Associates. He called them to move beyond working together to worshipping together at the altar. He contrasted the theological polarization over Communion with the ritual of foot-washing, which does not divide churches."

[J Michael]

Well consider: the term Protestantism encompasses Lutherans (and sometimes Anglicans), Methodists, Calvinists, Baptists, Pentecostals, and Congregationalists (and even others). So it is far more diverse (and less united) than Catholicism.

yes, that was an exaggeration, I made, I agree. There is more unity in Catholicism, though not as much as there should be or was in the past.

As for cardinal Donal Wuerl, an article in the January 23, 1989 Pittsburgh Press, "Breaking Bread — Wuerl Wants Denominations to Share Communion," dealt with a meeting between the Bishop Wuerl and six Protestant denominations

"to work with the Catholic Church toward the possibility of sharing Communion together...Wuerl stressed that local church leaders have had years of experience working together on social projects through Christian Associates. He called them to move beyond working together to worshipping together at the altar. He contrasted the theological polarization over Communion with the ritual of foot-washing, which does not divide churches."

Can you provide a link to the whole article?  Thanks!

[J Michael]

Well consider: the term Protestantism encompasses Lutherans (and sometimes Anglicans), Methodists, Calvinists, Baptists, Pentecostals, and Congregationalists (and even others). So it is far more diverse (and less united) than Catholicism.

yes, that was an exaggeration, I made, I agree. There is more unity in Catholicism, though not as much as there should be or was in the past.

As for cardinal Donal Wuerl, an article in the January 23, 1989 Pittsburgh Press, "Breaking Bread — Wuerl Wants Denominations to Share Communion," dealt with a meeting between the Bishop Wuerl and six Protestant denominations

"to work with the Catholic Church toward the possibility of sharing Communion together...Wuerl stressed that local church leaders have had years of experience working together on social projects through Christian Associates. He called them to move beyond working together to worshipping together at the altar. He contrasted the theological polarization over Communion with the ritual of foot-washing, which does not divide churches."

Can you provide a link to the whole article?  Thanks!

Hey, Christopher, any chance of providing a link to the article I asked for?  I've tried tracking it down online but without success.  It can be really frustrating to have someone quote something out of context from a source that they name but which can't be verified.  Can you help me out, here, please?  Thanks  !  (Could be I'm just not searching with the right parameters, but, if I knew what those were, I guess I would have found it, right  ?)

[Peter J]

Well consider: the term Protestantism encompasses Lutherans (and sometimes Anglicans), Methodists, Calvinists, Baptists, Pentecostals, and Congregationalists (and even others). So it is far more diverse (and less united) than Catholicism.

yes, that was an exaggeration, I made, I agree. There is more unity in Catholicism, though not as much as there should be or was in the past.

As for cardinal Donal Wuerl, an article in the January 23, 1989 Pittsburgh Press, "Breaking Bread — Wuerl Wants Denominations to Share Communion," dealt with a meeting between the Bishop Wuerl and six Protestant denominations

"to work with the Catholic Church toward the possibility of sharing Communion together...Wuerl stressed that local church leaders have had years of experience working together on social projects through Christian Associates. He called them to move beyond working together to worshipping together at the altar. He contrasted the theological polarization over Communion with the ritual of foot-washing, which does not divide churches."

Can you provide a link to the whole article?  Thanks!

Hey, Christopher, any chance of providing a link to the article I asked for? 

If you think one day is a long time to wait for an answer, then I predict you're not going to be too happy on this forum!

[J Michael]

Well consider: the term Protestantism encompasses Lutherans (and sometimes Anglicans), Methodists, Calvinists, Baptists, Pentecostals, and Congregationalists (and even others). So it is far more diverse (and less united) than Catholicism.

yes, that was an exaggeration, I made, I agree. There is more unity in Catholicism, though not as much as there should be or was in the past.

As for cardinal Donal Wuerl, an article in the January 23, 1989 Pittsburgh Press, "Breaking Bread — Wuerl Wants Denominations to Share Communion," dealt with a meeting between the Bishop Wuerl and six Protestant denominations

"to work with the Catholic Church toward the possibility of sharing Communion together...Wuerl stressed that local church leaders have had years of experience working together on social projects through Christian Associates. He called them to move beyond working together to worshipping together at the altar. He contrasted the theological polarization over Communion with the ritual of foot-washing, which does not divide churches."

Can you provide a link to the whole article?  Thanks!

Hey, Christopher, any chance of providing a link to the article I asked for? 

If you think one day is a long time to wait for an answer, then I predict you're not going to be too happy on this forum!

Happy?  Who said anything about "happy"?  If I depended upon this forum for my happiness, I'd really be in deep fecal matter. 

[orthonorm]

Well consider: the term Protestantism encompasses Lutherans (and sometimes Anglicans), Methodists, Calvinists, Baptists, Pentecostals, and Congregationalists (and even others). So it is far more diverse (and less united) than Catholicism.

yes, that was an exaggeration, I made, I agree. There is more unity in Catholicism, though not as much as there should be or was in the past.

As for cardinal Donal Wuerl, an article in the January 23, 1989 Pittsburgh Press, "Breaking Bread — Wuerl Wants Denominations to Share Communion," dealt with a meeting between the Bishop Wuerl and six Protestant denominations

"to work with the Catholic Church toward the possibility of sharing Communion together...Wuerl stressed that local church leaders have had years of experience working together on social projects through Christian Associates. He called them to move beyond working together to worshipping together at the altar. He contrasted the theological polarization over Communion with the ritual of foot-washing, which does not divide churches."

Can you provide a link to the whole article?  Thanks!

Hey, Christopher, any chance of providing a link to the article I asked for?  I've tried tracking it down online but without success.  It can be really frustrating to have someone quote something out of context from a source that they name but which can't be verified.  Can you help me out, here, please?  Thanks  !  (Could be I'm just not searching with the right parameters, but, if I knew what those were, I guess I would have found it, right  ?)

Good luck:

http://old.post-gazette.com/newslinks/genealogy.asp

[orthonorm]

Well consider: the term Protestantism encompasses Lutherans (and sometimes Anglicans), Methodists, Calvinists, Baptists, Pentecostals, and Congregationalists (and even others). So it is far more diverse (and less united) than Catholicism.

yes, that was an exaggeration, I made, I agree. There is more unity in Catholicism, though not as much as there should be or was in the past.

As for cardinal Donal Wuerl, an article in the January 23, 1989 Pittsburgh Press, "Breaking Bread — Wuerl Wants Denominations to Share Communion," dealt with a meeting between the Bishop Wuerl and six Protestant denominations

"to work with the Catholic Church toward the possibility of sharing Communion together...Wuerl stressed that local church leaders have had years of experience working together on social projects through Christian Associates. He called them to move beyond working together to worshipping together at the altar. He contrasted the theological polarization over Communion with the ritual of foot-washing, which does not divide churches."

Can you provide a link to the whole article?  Thanks!

Hey, Christopher, any chance of providing a link to the article I asked for?  I've tried tracking it down online but without success.  It can be really frustrating to have someone quote something out of context from a source that they name but which can't be verified.  Can you help me out, here, please?  Thanks  !  (Could be I'm just not searching with the right parameters, but, if I knew what those were, I guess I would have found it, right  ?)

Good luck:

http://old.post-gazette.com/newslinks/genealogy.asp

You could contact the person who wrote this webpage:

http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/abbott/060518

[J Michael]

Well consider: the term Protestantism encompasses Lutherans (and sometimes Anglicans), Methodists, Calvinists, Baptists, Pentecostals, and Congregationalists (and even others). So it is far more diverse (and less united) than Catholicism.

yes, that was an exaggeration, I made, I agree. There is more unity in Catholicism, though not as much as there should be or was in the past.

As for cardinal Donal Wuerl, an article in the January 23, 1989 Pittsburgh Press, "Breaking Bread — Wuerl Wants Denominations to Share Communion," dealt with a meeting between the Bishop Wuerl and six Protestant denominations

"to work with the Catholic Church toward the possibility of sharing Communion together...Wuerl stressed that local church leaders have had years of experience working together on social projects through Christian Associates. He called them to move beyond working together to worshipping together at the altar. He contrasted the theological polarization over Communion with the ritual of foot-washing, which does not divide churches."

Can you provide a link to the whole article?  Thanks!

Hey, Christopher, any chance of providing a link to the article I asked for?  I've tried tracking it down online but without success.  It can be really frustrating to have someone quote something out of context from a source that they name but which can't be verified.  Can you help me out, here, please?  Thanks  !  (Could be I'm just not searching with the right parameters, but, if I knew what those were, I guess I would have found it, right  ?)

Good luck:

http://old.post-gazette.com/newslinks/genealogy.asp

You could contact the person who wrote this webpage:

http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/abbott/060518

Thanks!

And thanks! 

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