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Author Topic: Official stance of the RCC on orthodoxy  (Read 7105 times) Average Rating: 0
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ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Warned
Hypatos
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Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,638



« Reply #225 on: March 15, 2012, 01:09:26 AM »

I think it's a shame the way this thread came to a rather abrupt halt. Regardless, I think Wyatt made a good point:

The only difference between the other Bishops and the Pope is that the Pope's headship is on a worldwide level. That still doesn't negate Christ's headship because the Pope is the head of the Church militant in the present (i.e. the Catholic Church as it exists right now on Earth). Christ is the absolute head of the Church in all times and places...not to mention the fact that, without Christ, there would be no point in a Church at all, since the Church's sole mission is to spread the gospel of Christ.

I would be interested to hear what Orthodox have to say to this argument.
It's bogus.

There is only one bishop for them, the one in the Vatican.  All others are just his acolytes.

This is a representation of the Council of Nicea in the Sistine Chapel:

and an icon of the same

In the bottom, the Gospel Book (as the accounts tell us) stands in the center, with the altar looming behind.  In the top, Hosios of Cordova (made into the legate of Pope St. Sylvester; in fact he was the personal friend of the Sainted Emperor Constantine, and it is not clear if he precided) looms in the center, the Gospel nothing more than his footstool.

Christ's Church has His Apostolic episcopate to lead it, we don't need a super bishop for a head. The arrogance of that heresy to redefine the Catholic Church as communion with him, and otherwise crush the whole of the Church into the singularity of the papacy underlines that fact.

So, despite all the disclaimers, the supreme pontiff negates Christ's headship and all the other bishops.
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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Warned
Hypatos
*****************
Online Online

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,638



« Reply #226 on: March 15, 2012, 01:09:26 AM »

I guess if someone were on their deathbed they'd be leaving the Orthodox Church anyway  Grin.

?
There's one Church. One Church in Heaven, one on earth and they are the same thing. I thought that whatever disputes there may be about where that One Church is on earth, this was an understanding Western "Catholics" shared with Orthodoxy?

Well, if we "Catholics" (Western and Eastern) share this understanding with the OC about One Church in Heaven, one on earth, etc., does that not make us all part of the same One Church? 

The first part of my comment that generated your "?", was a joke.  Did you see the smiley  Grin?

Actually there is a difference in ecclesiology here. 

The Vatican views the "Church on earth" as "militant" and "the Church in heaven" as triumpant.  Orthodoxy views the one Church in heaven and earth before the general resurrection as the Church militant, and the entire Church in heaven and earth after the general resurrection as the Church triumphant.  That is why the RCC needs two heads, and the Orthodox Church needs one.   
Actually, you guys have multiple heads, i.e. all the bishops.

That's nonsense and a complete misrepresentation of Orthodox Theology.  There is only one Great Hierarch (Megas Archiereus) of the Church.  The rest are local Archieries under Him, and all brethren under a single Head.  They have local headship over their dioceses.  In Synod the one who sits as protos is bishop of the See first in honor in the eparchia for the provincial synod, or the dioikesis for the patriarchal synod.     
And we share that same belief. Smiley
Your ecclesiology doesn't teach it.  Case in point, every bishop is responsible to every bishop, but your supreme pontiff is responsible to no one.
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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
Peter J
Formerly PJ
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Faith: Melkite
Posts: 6,123



« Reply #227 on: March 15, 2012, 09:14:51 AM »

I think it's a shame the way this thread came to a rather abrupt halt. Regardless, I think Wyatt made a good point:

The only difference between the other Bishops and the Pope is that the Pope's headship is on a worldwide level. That still doesn't negate Christ's headship because the Pope is the head of the Church militant in the present (i.e. the Catholic Church as it exists right now on Earth). Christ is the absolute head of the Church in all times and places...not to mention the fact that, without Christ, there would be no point in a Church at all, since the Church's sole mission is to spread the gospel of Christ.

I would be interested to hear what Orthodox have to say to this argument.
It's bogus.

There is only one bishop for them, the one in the Vatican.  All others are just his acolytes.

This is a representation of the Council of Nicea in the Sistine Chapel:

and an icon of the same

In the bottom, the Gospel Book (as the accounts tell us) stands in the center, with the altar looming behind.  In the top, Hosios of Cordova (made into the legate of Pope St. Sylvester; in fact he was the personal friend of the Sainted Emperor Constantine, and it is not clear if he precided) looms in the center, the Gospel nothing more than his footstool.

I don't see that. To me, the Gospel looks just as central in the first picture as in the second.
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