Author Topic: Incorrupt bodies  (Read 872 times)

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Offline eaden

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Incorrupt bodies
« on: October 01, 2016, 09:39:03 PM »
 Is it possible for orthodoxy to have Incorrupt bodies of catholic canonized saints?
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Offline Svartzorn

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Re: Incorrupt bodies
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2016, 10:50:35 PM »
I have a friend who would always bring this up, until I started saying that we have our accounts of incorruptibility, and that this fact in itself is not an indicative of sainthood:

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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Incorrupt bodies
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2016, 11:15:35 PM »
I don't understand. Are you asking if we should turn our relics over to Rome?
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Offline biro

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Re: Incorrupt bodies
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2016, 11:22:23 PM »
I think he wants to know if there are Orthodox saints whose bodies were incorruptible.
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Offline Justin Kolodziej

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Re: Incorrupt bodies
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2016, 11:43:13 PM »
No no, he's resting!  ;) er...meditating it looks like.

Sounds like the question is if Orthodox think only Orthodox saints are incorrupt, and the answer is no, here's a counterexample: not even Christian, but incorrupt.

Of course with being pumped full of embalming fluid like every modern mortician wants to do -- probably everyone is now "incorrupt"!  ::)

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Offline RaphaCam

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Re: Incorrupt bodies
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2016, 12:48:39 AM »
I don't understand. Are you asking if we should turn our relics over to Rome?
I understood the opposite, that he's asking if we might be interested as Orthodox in obtaining relics of RC saints.
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Offline Vanhyo

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Re: Incorrupt bodies
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2016, 09:03:59 AM »
i did not understand the question so - nvm
« Last Edit: October 02, 2016, 09:06:54 AM by Vanhyo »

Offline eaden

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Re: Incorrupt bodies
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2016, 03:48:31 PM »
Ok, let me change the question:
A saint is a man who had extraordinary virtues during life by the grace of God. Is it possible to have saints out of the Orthodox Church?
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Offline Rohzek

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Re: Incorrupt bodies
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2016, 04:09:04 PM »
Ok, let me change the question:
A saint is a man who had extraordinary virtues during life by the grace of God. Is it possible to have saints out of the Orthodox Church?

I'm open to the idea insofar that it is understood that by "outside the Orthodox Church" it is meant "visibly outside the formal institution, yet spiritually part of the Body of Christ."
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Offline RaphaCam

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Re: Incorrupt bodies
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2016, 04:30:23 PM »
Ok, let me change the question:
A saint is a man who had extraordinary virtues during life by the grace of God. Is it possible to have saints out of the Orthodox Church?

I'm open to the idea insofar that it is understood that by "outside the Orthodox Church" it is meant "visibly outside the formal institution, yet spiritually part of the Body of Christ."
+1


Also, it is almost impossible that he be liturgically commemorated, even if many Orthodox may privately recognise his sainthood.
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Offline Onesimus

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Re: Incorrupt bodies
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2016, 04:39:33 PM »
Just a note on the photo thE OP posted of possible "incorruption." The image of the Buddhist monk above is most likely Dashi-Dorzho Itigilov.   As I looked at the photo, I presu,Ed the white powdery substance on his lower body was ice.   It turns out it may have been salt - a preserving and mummifying agent that the body was packed in, according to investigative sources.

Anyway...there are many way that bodies are kept incorruption through natural mechanisms, such as the various "bog bodies" and, apparently - being pack in salt.   

The following article talks about Dashi-Dorzho Itigilov, but also is fascinating because it speaks of a Japanese method of self mummification used by monks.   


Quote
The steps involved in mummifying one’s own body were extremely rigorous and painful. For the first 1,000 days, the monks ceased all food except nuts, seeds, fruits and berries and they engaged in extensive physical activity to strip themselves of all body fat. For the next 1,000 days, their diet was restricted to bark and roots. Near the end of this period, they would drink poisonous tea made from the sap of the Urushi tree, which caused vomiting and a rapid loss of body fluids. It also acted as a preservative and killed off maggots and bacteria that would cause the body to decay after death.
In the final stage, after more than six years of torturous preparation, the monk would lock himself in a stone tomb barely larger than his body, where he would go into a state of meditation. He was seated in the lotus position, a position he would not move from until he died. A small air tube provided oxygen to the tomb. Each day, the monk rang a bell to let the outside world know he was still alive. When the bell stopped ringing, the tube was removed and the tomb sealed for the final thousand day period of the ritual
.


http://www.ancient-origins.net/news/mummified-remains-monk-still-lotus-position-found-mongolia-002623

Offline Cavaradossi

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Re: Incorrupt bodies
« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2016, 06:13:46 PM »
Ok, let me change the question:
A saint is a man who had extraordinary virtues during life by the grace of God. Is it possible to have saints out of the Orthodox Church?

No, because only the grace which God gives the Church can produce saints. It is possible that God can afford those outside of the Church with some measure of grace as He did for the Jews who labored under the law, but the grace of the new covenant surpasses what could be gained under the law. In this way, though we may speak of virtuous and even righteous people outside of the unity of the Church, we do not generally refer to them as saints, with a few dubious exceptions.
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Offline Charles1967

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Re: Incorrupt bodies
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2016, 08:16:44 PM »
Many pics on the web stating incoruptible Saints. But many are decomposed partialy or a lot. Only a few I have noticed truly look like a miracle. One is St.  Bernadette
And there is one of a martyr from 1600 years ago. St.Silvan

Amazing photos

https://bibliothequedecombat.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/14146524sainte-bernadette-soubirous-jpg.jpg

http://i2.wp.com/listverse.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/silvan1-tm.jpg?resize=435%2C300


Offline Antonis

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Re: Incorrupt bodies
« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2016, 09:14:38 PM »
Many pics on the web stating incoruptible Saints. But many are decomposed partialy or a lot. Only a few I have noticed truly look like a miracle. One is St.  Bernadette
And there is one of a martyr from 1600 years ago. St.Silvan

Amazing photos

https://bibliothequedecombat.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/14146524sainte-bernadette-soubirous-jpg.jpg

http://i2.wp.com/listverse.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/silvan1-tm.jpg?resize=435%2C300
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You sound like a professional who knows what he's talking about.  That's because you are.

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Offline Vanhyo

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Re: Incorrupt bodies
« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2016, 01:26:05 PM »
Ok, let me change the question:
A saint is a man who had extraordinary virtues during life by the grace of God. Is it possible to have saints out of the Orthodox Church?

No, because only the grace which God gives the Church can produce saints. It is possible that God can afford those outside of the Church with some measure of grace as He did for the Jews who labored under the law, but the grace of the new covenant surpasses what could be gained under the law. In this way, though we may speak of virtuous and even righteous people outside of the unity of the Church, we do not generally refer to them as saints, with a few dubious exceptions.
I find this answer agreeable.

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Incorrupt bodies
« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2016, 01:31:11 PM »
I'm surprised anyone's willing to declare God has absolutely deserted Roman Catholic people.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2016, 01:33:11 PM by Porter ODoran »
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

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Offline Apostolos

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Re: Incorrupt bodies
« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2016, 01:55:14 PM »
Ok, let me change the question:
A saint is a man who had extraordinary virtues during life by the grace of God. Is it possible to have saints out of the Orthodox Church?
You have just described my late grandmother, a person of extraordinary virtues by the grace of God, the problem is that's not what a saint is
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Re: Incorrupt bodies
« Reply #17 on: October 04, 2016, 07:51:26 PM »
Many pics on the web stating incoruptible Saints. But many are decomposed partialy or a lot. Only a few I have noticed truly look like a miracle. One is St.  Bernadette
And there is one of a martyr from 1600 years ago. St.Silvan

Amazing photos

https://bibliothequedecombat.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/14146524sainte-bernadette-soubirous-jpg.jpg

http://i2.wp.com/listverse.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/silvan1-tm.jpg?resize=435%2C300
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