Author Topic: It Makes You Wonder  (Read 1582 times)

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Offline Luckster

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It Makes You Wonder
« on: May 23, 2012, 09:16:55 AM »
As some of you may know I recently returned from St. Louis visiting some Lutheran friends. While down there, at the Brewery, I heard that my old college friend's dad, a prominent Lutheran pastor was in jail for child pornography possession. This friend has always been dedicated to the Church, despite being Lutheran. He has dozens of icons, multiple CDs, prayer ropes, and books. He even composed a Lutheran Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom. About six years ago, AJ boldly proclaimed, "Dan, I'll only become Orthodox if my parents die."  A year later his mother died. Then, recently, his dad is currently in jail. So, he effectively doesn't have parents.

Was this a sign on testing God? Atheists, Agnostics, and Evangelicals would say it was purely coincidence. Should we, in the Church, know better?

Offline primuspilus

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Re: It Makes You Wonder
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2012, 11:33:14 AM »
Im not trying to be smarmy, but I think this is a lesson that you should not have child pornography. I think reading too much into things will make your head explode.

When the Holy Spirit tugs at his heart to join the Church, I dont think he'll have such conditions.

PP
« Last Edit: May 23, 2012, 11:34:33 AM by primuspilus »
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Offline jah777

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Re: It Makes You Wonder
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2012, 11:56:19 AM »
Was this a sign on testing God? Atheists, Agnostics, and Evangelicals would say it was purely coincidence. Should we, in the Church, know better?

It is one thing to wave off corresponding events as mere coincidences, and quite another to presume to know the ultimate purposes behind specific corresponding occurrences.  I think it is best to be attentive, inwardly pondering such events following the example of the Theotokos, patiently waiting to see the outcome, and realizing that God has His own purposes which do not always correspond to our expectations.

Offline PrincessMommy

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Re: It Makes You Wonder
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2012, 09:59:12 PM »
I don't know if we should know better, but I agree that it does make you wonder.  I've seen enough barriers suddenly arise in the few friends who expressed interest in visiting an EO church too.  One (who never gets sick) got a very bad flu bug and the other broke her leg skiing - both very bizarre and after they had made arrangements with me to attend on a specific day.  It does give one pause for reflection. 

I'm curious about the "Lutheran Liturgy of St. John Chyrsostom" - it sounds like an oxymoron. 


Offline Maria

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Re: It Makes You Wonder
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2012, 10:05:17 PM »
I don't know if we should know better, but I agree that it does make you wonder.  I've seen enough barriers suddenly arise in the few friends who expressed interest in visiting an EO church too.  One (who never gets sick) got a very bad flu bug and the other broke her leg skiing - both very bizarre and after they had made arrangements with me to attend on a specific day.  It does give one pause for reflection. 




The devil tries earnestly to prevent people from coming to Orthodoxy. The Evil One also tempts us to stay home when we really should be going to church for the Divine Liturgy, for Vespers, and for Paraclesis.

How many parishes no longer have Vespers because the laity will not attend?
How many parishes rarely have the Paraclesis to the Most Holy Theotokos because of lack of attendance?
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

Offline age234

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Re: It Makes You Wonder
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2012, 10:52:42 PM »
I'm curious about the "Lutheran Liturgy of St. John Chyrsostom" - it sounds like an oxymoron. 

I imagine it's something like this: http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/saintsophiaseminary/liturgy.html

Offline Hiwot

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Re: It Makes You Wonder
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2012, 11:07:02 PM »

I'm curious about the "Lutheran Liturgy of St. John Chyrsostom" - it sounds like an oxymoron. 



hehehe I don't know what to feel about seeing his name and Lutheran liturgy in the same sentence either lol I am trying not to wince  :)
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Only pray for me, that God would give me both inward and outward strength, that I may not only speak, but truly will; and that I may not merely be called a Christian, but really be found to be one. St.Ignatius of Antioch.Epistle to the Romans.

Offline Luckster

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Re: It Makes You Wonder
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2012, 09:57:12 AM »
Was this a sign on testing God? Atheists, Agnostics, and Evangelicals would say it was purely coincidence. Should we, in the Church, know better?

It is one thing to wave off corresponding events as mere coincidences, and quite another to presume to know the ultimate purposes behind specific corresponding occurrences.  I think it is best to be attentive, inwardly pondering such events following the example of the Theotokos, patiently waiting to see the outcome, and realizing that God has His own purposes which do not always correspond to our expectations.
Very true.

I'm curious about the "Lutheran Liturgy of St. John Chyrsostom" - it sounds like an oxymoron. 

I imagine it's something like this: http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/saintsophiaseminary/liturgy.html
Yep, AJ took some references from that as well. That's the first time I've seen that link is almost five years. Ahaha.

Offline Azul

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Re: It Makes You Wonder
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2012, 11:50:49 AM »
One should not say this sort of things because at times they have the tendency to happen... This is certaintly not the first i`ve heard..

Every formula of every religion has in this age of reason, to submit to the acid test of reason and universal assent.
Mahatma Gandhi

Offline yeshuaisiam

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Re: It Makes You Wonder
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2012, 01:19:39 PM »
I think to be an Orthodox Christian, you have to become Orthodox no matter what anybody thinks.  This include parents.  If it is written in your heart and you know it to be the truth, then he shouldn't wait on anybody else.
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Offline gonefishing

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Re: It Makes You Wonder
« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2012, 08:04:08 PM »
Im not trying to be smarmy, but I think this is a lesson that you should not have child pornography. I think reading too much into things will make your head explode.

When the Holy Spirit tugs at his heart to join the Church, I dont think he'll have such conditions.

PP

I would say that was the perfect answer.