Author Topic: "Pupose Driven Life"  (Read 34471 times)

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Offline spartacus

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"Pupose Driven Life"
« on: September 27, 2004, 01:31:57 PM »
Although it is not Orthodox, I have been given a copy of

"The Pupose Driven Life"

by Rick Warren

I just glanced through it so far...It has been on the NY TImes Best Seller list for many many weeks.

Has anyone here read it?...What do you think about it? It seems like a Protestant attempt to conduct a Lenten journey. Many Protestant and Roman Catholic churches and parishes are using the book to evangelize.

Any comments would be appreciated. Except for one choice of one word in the foreward of the book, I have yet to see anything that misses the mark or is "unOrthodox"...But I have only yet just skimmed it.

Offline Shiloah

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Re:"Pupose Driven Life"
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2004, 01:44:34 PM »
O Boy, I feel sorry for you already for the answers you'll get on this one.

And I'd doubt anybody Orthodox on this forum has read (or would read) this book. It was not written by an Orthodox. Therefore how could there be anything of spiritual value in it? Right, guys?
"God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ" 2.Cor.4:6

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Offline Jakub

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Re:"Pupose Driven Life"
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2004, 01:47:43 PM »
My wife & brother are reading it, people recommend it for depression due to illness etc.

Personally, I read good old Holy Scripture, it has everything I need.

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Offline Fr. David

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Re:"Pupose Driven Life"
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2004, 04:00:12 PM »
O Boy, I feel sorry for you already for the answers you'll get on this one.

And I'd doubt anybody Orthodox on this forum has read (or would read) this book. It was not written by an Orthodox. Therefore how could there be anything of spiritual value in it? Right, guys?

Sarcasm duly noted.   ::)

I've read it.  Went through it last Lent with an Episcopalian friend of mine -- she's actually the wife of an Episc. priest.  Pretty vague stuff, like spartacus said; nothing that would really offend (i.e., contradict) Orthodoxy, at least, not if one's skimming.  Which is bad in and of itself, because certain things that are an integral part of the faith are left unsaid, which IS offensive.

Things that show up are the super-sentimental, gooshy kind of "God's-so-infatuated-with-you-He-can-barely-stand-it" stuff, wherein we come off as the center of God's attention and plan...the whole "God has a specific plan for your life," whereas we would say something more along the lines of, "Life happens.  Live holy and you'll hear the Holy Spirit help you...or not."  Just a big appeal to the emotions.

Also the individualized worship idea.  "It doesn't matter how you worship, just so long as it's 'sincere.'"  No mention of the Eucharist being the lifeblood of anything.  Just so long as we *really* mean it.

My 2 cents.
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Offline Nacho

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Re:"Pupose Driven Life"
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2004, 04:05:38 PM »
Quote
O Boy, I feel sorry for you already for the answers you'll get on this one.

And I'd doubt anybody Orthodox on this forum has read (or would read) this book. It was not written by an Orthodox. Therefore how could there be anything of spiritual value in it? Right, guys?

LOL!!!!
"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world."--Mere Christianity

Offline Shiloah

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Re:"Pupose Driven Life"
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2004, 04:32:35 PM »
Quote
the whole "God has a specific plan for your life," whereas we would say something more along the lines of, "Life happens.  Live holy and you'll hear the Holy Spirit help you...or not."

Pedro, do you really mean that your life is just a happenstance and not purposefully intended by God ? I have never heard that as an Orthodox teaching. What Patriarchate do you belong to?

Just wondering, Shiloah
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Offline Elisha

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Re:"Pupose Driven Life"
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2004, 05:01:04 PM »
Pedro, do you really mean that your life is just a happenstance and not purposefully intended by God ? I have never heard that as an Orthodox teaching. What Patriarchate do you belong to?

Just wondering, Shiloah

Shiloah,
Frequently (we Orthodox) aren't against the essense of what some of these books teach, but more the method and vagueness of it.  While the main point may be good, the language gives the impression that 1) it doesn't matter what faith you belong to (Wrong!!!) 2) The unOrthodox "Jesus and Me" concept and 3) there are probably comparable Orthodox texts already out there that are much better.  Basically, what little substance there is from an Orthodox point of view is watered down and not really useful.

Oh, and there are non-Orthodox texts that are very profitable to read - C.S.  Lewis, for example.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2004, 05:02:12 PM by Elisha »

Offline Anastasios

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Re:"Pupose Driven Life"
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2004, 05:06:03 PM »
I read non-Orthodox books all the time, for the record.

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Offline Fr. David

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Re:"Pupose Driven Life"
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2004, 05:35:48 PM »
Pedro, do you really mean that your life is just a happenstance and not purposefully intended by God?

Of course not.  However, I think that God works with us in this life and lets us make our own decisions -- all of which he knows beforehand yet still lets us make -- so to say that He has "a plan" for our lives that is THE PLAN, so to speak, just seems a little too...well...non-synergetic, if that's even a word.  The people who were used mightily by God weren't trying or seeking or even suspecting that they would be used by God.  And really, I don't know that it matters to God all that much what we actually wind up doing in this life, per se.  It seems that the will of God for us all is to be holy in what we're doing right now, and when (or if) something different comes along, we'll know His voice well enough to go with it.  If we don't, we won't.  

And God doesn't abandon us at that point, as if we "missed God's one and only plan for our lives," as many things like Warren's PDL are prone to say, but rather His flexibility -- the "wideness in God's mercy," if you will -- picks up from there and allows us the ability to make choices that, while not as blessed by God, are still salvageable and potentially glorious.

Quote
What Patriarchate do you belong to?

I'm a member of the OCA; we don't have a Patriarch and haven't since 1970!
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Offline Shiloah

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Re:"Pupose Driven Life"
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2004, 06:05:09 PM »
Thanks, Pedro, for clarifying. I see now what you mean. I'm a member of the OCA also. And I really do love the teachings of the Church, even if some might doubt that.

I visit people in the local jail a lot (over 700 inmates; a high security facility)and try to use as much as possible the prison ministry material given out by the Antiochian Orthodox Church. It always is a great comfort for the inmates to learn that they have a purpose with God. Because most of them do time because of drug related felonies and come from dysfunctional families and they never have been told that there is a purpose for their life.

« Last Edit: September 27, 2004, 06:07:06 PM by Shiloah »
"God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ" 2.Cor.4:6

"One thing is education: that we learn how to love God. "

Offline Jakub

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Re:"Pupose Driven Life"
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2004, 06:38:27 PM »
Gee,

I did'nt know that the Orthodox had a patent on spirituality & books.

JB
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Offline spartacus

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Re:"Pupose Driven Life"
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2004, 12:08:10 AM »
Sarcasm duly noted.   ::)

I've read it.  Went through it last Lent with an Episcopalian friend of mine -- she's actually the wife of an Episc. priest.  Pretty vague stuff, like spartacus said; nothing that would really offend (i.e., contradict) Orthodoxy, at least, not if one's skimming.  Which is bad in and of itself, because certain things that are an integral part of the faith are left unsaid, which IS offensive.

Things that show up are the super-sentimental, gooshy kind of "God's-so-infatuated-with-you-He-can-barely-stand-it" stuff, wherein we come off as the center of God's attention and plan...the whole "God has a specific plan for your life," whereas we would say something more along the lines of, "Life happens.  Live holy and you'll hear the Holy Spirit help you...or not."  Just a big appeal to the emotions.

Also the individualized worship idea.  "It doesn't matter how you worship, just so long as it's 'sincere.'"  No mention of the Eucharist being the lifeblood of anything.  Just so long as we *really* mean it.

My 2 cents.

Pedro, I appreciate uur input very much..being the only here who has even read it. I have read the first three days (chapters?) and I see what you mean.

The premise of the Book as I understand it after only three chapters...is that God has a plan for us...I doubt though if God's plan includes genocide and, nurder and other attrocities.

Pedro...is there any mention of Satan? Does the author just ignore the influence Satan has on earth?  

I have agreed to join a small group of Protestants for six meetings to discuss the book. I am sure the Orthodox perspective is one they are not exactly familiar with. They know I am Orthodox...and in charity invited me just the same....as we welcome Protestants and others into our faith.

In the foreward and first three chapters I get the impression the book is pretty "white bread" intentionally written so it could be used by Christians of almost all denominations. It does though lack the "fullness" of Orthodox belief.

Pedro, SInce you have read the book with a Protestant...any suggestions? Also do you ave any suggestions in general in how one should approach Protestants and bear the best witness to these people.

You can respond publicly or privately. I always appreacitae your private messages.

Offline Tallitot

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Re:"Pupose Driven Life"
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2004, 08:05:21 AM »
That was my impression of it Sparticus, very bland and designed to appeal to all "flavors" of churches. It also struck me as gushy googey, kinda "Jesus hosts a kiddie show".
My co-workes gave me a copy fo rmy birthday last year(guess they feel I need to find a purpose in life!).
btw- when you say you're discussing the book w/ a group of protestants, what denomination? Different denominations are very different...I'm Episcopalian, but I have much more in common w/ Catholics and Orthodox Christians, then say Baptists.
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Offline Shiloah

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Re:"Pupose Driven Life"
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2004, 08:24:08 AM »
That was my impression of it Sparticus, very bland and designed to appeal to all "flavors" of churches. It also struck me as gushy googey, kinda "Jesus hosts a kiddie show".
My co-workes gave me a copy fo rmy birthday last year(guess they feel I need to find a purpose in life!).
btw- when you say you're discussing the book w/ a group of protestants, what denomination? Different denominations are very different...I'm Episcopalian, but I have much more in common w/ Catholics and Orthodox Christians, then say Baptists.

Your co-workers probably meant well and wanted to give you something they treasure.

On the other hand, maybe they did because of your poor (and condescending) Orthodox witness.

According to your view it seems like they are all dumb kids anyhow, playing in the mud;
then there are the Episcopalians - already a class better;
then there are the Catholics - up one notch,
and on top the Orthodox - they're it!

And I have been called judgmental on this Forum !

Shiloa
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Offline Asteriktos

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Re:"Pupose Driven Life"
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2004, 09:06:17 AM »
I read Warren's book Purpose Driven Church numerous times while I was a Protestant. In fact, our church tried to put into effect many of the "seeker friendly" suggestions that was in his book. The book was essentially taking superficiality to the greatest degree possible. You like country? then have a country service! you like pop? do it! long sermon? short sermon? theological? not theological? how does one decide? take a poll and find out what those in the community want from a church. That's the type of stuff that was in the book. It took basically good scriptural principles, and distorted them and used them merely to increase sales, membership, response to altar calls, etc. Now, I have no doubt that Mr. Warren is a very sincere person, as are the others as Saddleback Church... but sincerity doesn't mean one is on the right path. If someone on this thread with a chip on their shoulder wants to see that as an attack on Protestants, then so be it; I came to realise all of the above, though, while still a Protestant (and, for that matter, while attending a Protestant Bible College).

Regarding the new book, not having read it I can't say for sure. Perhaps it is like a Max Lucado book, where there's maybe a few good insights, but mostly just vague middle-of-the-road stuff (as someone else said)? I've read Protestant books with lots of insights, but I don't think this would be the book, nor the author, to go for that. Again, I say that not having read the book in question, but basing my view only on having read (and heard via simulcast) Rick Warren before, and having experienced his ideas put into action. It's perfectly possible that Mr. Warren says nothing unOrthodox in the book, especially if it's vague and unlike his other books which were basically what ecumenism and touchy-feely Christianity would look like on steroids. I don't mean to force this criterion onto anyone else, but as for myself, the question I try to ask myself before I buy a book is, "is this the best I can do on this subject, or regarding this particular content?" If it's not, I try to find/buy the better book. My own feeling is, there's just too many good books out there to read, and I might read only a few dozen a year, why would I read a book that I know is going to give me less than another book I know of?

Offline Shiloah

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Re:"Pupose Driven Life"
« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2004, 09:25:53 AM »
that's a good answer, Paradosis, and I agree with what you say. (I looked on my shoulder, just to make sure, and didn't see a chip there...)

I think the reason why this book is such a success: it demonstrates that people are looking for a deeper expression of their faith and for a way to live meaningful lives. They look for a way to live a dedicated and God-pleasing life above and beyond what they have experienced in their (Church-)life so far.

That book is just another book, but God looks at the intentions of the heart of people.

there is a wonderful two volume Orthodox study book out there called The Living God. May be some of us could invite our friends to a home study of that and/or have our parish priest offer it and we could bring friends.

The fact is people are willing, they are hungry to the point where they'll eat anything.

I'm reminded of Amos 8:11-13 "Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord:
 12.  And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the Lord, and shall not find it.
 13.  In that day shall the fair virgins and young men faint for thirst."

Shiloah
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Offline jmell

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Re:"Pupose Driven Life"
« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2004, 10:30:25 AM »
"The Living God" is a good series, it's kinda hard to find, but I found it on Ebay still wrapped  ;D

Offline Tallitot

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Re:"Pupose Driven Life"
« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2004, 11:07:04 AM »
Your co-workers probably meant well and wanted to give you something they treasure.

On the other hand, maybe they did because of your poor (and condescending) Orthodox witness.

According to your view it seems like they are all dumb kids anyhow, playing in the mud;
then there are the Episcopalians - already a class better;
then there are the Catholics - up one notch,
and on top the Orthodox - they're it!
And I have been called judgmental on this Forum !
Shiloa

Sorry if I didn't make myself clear..
I know my co-workers meant well when they gave me the book..that was a joke, guess it fell flat. :(

I don't how "poor and condescending" my witness in the workplace may be..of course unless you work with me, you don't either.

I did not mean to imply that members of other churches were "dumb kids..playing in the mud". I was expressing my opinion of the generic theology expressed in the book.

I never meant to imply that Anglicans are "better" than other bodies; or that Orthodox Christians are "better" then anyone else, I only said that some churches have more in common then other churches.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2004, 11:10:38 AM by Crucifer »
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Offline spartacus

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Re:"Pupose Driven Life"
« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2004, 12:02:22 PM »
Well I certainly apreciate all the feedback here so far and welcome anymore others might have.

I skipped ahead and got to the worship part...Oh Brother! You guys are right! It totally ignores Christs teaching on how we are to remember Him -- through the EUcharist. It also totally ignores the Biblical teachings of the Apostles on how to worship -- The Eucharist!....or the fact that very shortly after the Apostles established the Church, the Church was "universal" (catholic) in its teaching in regards to worship. I expected something along these lines since the book has been touted by Protestants.

I'll be looking forward to this part of discussion....already tabbing my study Bible.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2004, 12:04:54 PM by spartacus »

Offline Doubting Thomas

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Re:"Pupose Driven Life"
« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2004, 01:58:12 PM »
I recall when I was still a Baptist deacon (I've since stepped down due to doctrinal differences) attending a deacon's meeting in which we watched a short Rick Warren video as our church was preparing for "40 Days of Purpose".  As I was observing this, I recall thinking that it seemed like an attempt to fill in the void for Protestants who don't observe Lent.  It also sounded more like marketing church growth than genuinely building the kingdom.  At any rate, my wife and I pretty much stayed home during "40 Days of Purpose" since it was during the time our son was born, so we didn't get to participate.  My wife did buy the book Purpose Driven Life and started to read it, but I've never had much of a desire to do so myself.  I'm sure there is some useful stuff in there, but some of the snippets I've read do seem rather "fluffy" and superficial.
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Offline Shiloah

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Re:"Pupose Driven Life"
« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2004, 02:07:25 PM »
Where there is no Eucharist, Lent becomes meaning- or rather 'purpose'-less.

40 Days of Purpose is trying to cover your shame with fig leaves...
"God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ" 2.Cor.4:6

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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re:"Pupose Driven Life"
« Reply #21 on: September 28, 2004, 08:36:40 PM »
Your co-workers probably meant well and wanted to give you something they treasure.

On the other hand, maybe they did because of your poor (and condescending) Orthodox witness.

And I have been called judgmental on this Forum !

Let me get this straight: if an Episcopalian doesn't like the style of a Protestant book, he's being a nasty Orthodox?

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re:"Pupose Driven Life"
« Reply #22 on: September 28, 2004, 08:40:48 PM »
Where there is no Eucharist, Lent becomes meaning- or rather 'purpose'-less.

I'd take this one step further and say that where there is no Eucharist, Christianity becomes an empty philosophy.  At the same time (and perhaps unrelated) it is interesting that during Lent, we "fast" from the Eucharist, either for a time or for the duration (Armenian Orthodox, I believe, don't receive the Eucharist at all during Great Lent).  

Quote
40 Days of Purpose is trying to cover your shame with fig leaves...

You must've caught the nastiness Orthodox are known for?  ;)

Offline Shiloah

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Re:"Pupose Driven Life"
« Reply #23 on: September 28, 2004, 09:32:47 PM »
Quote
You must've caught the nastiness Orthodox are known for?  
Thanks for the compliment  :D
"God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ" 2.Cor.4:6

"One thing is education: that we learn how to love God. "

Offline spartacus

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Re:"Pupose Driven Life"
« Reply #24 on: September 28, 2004, 10:31:51 PM »
Thanks for the compliment  :D

I know it is sarcastic...but most Americans have no idea what Orthodoxy is about. They are in fact more inclined to think Orthodox "Jew" rather than Orthdox Christian when they hear word Orthodox used in discussion. Because of this and also due to the near absence of the Orthodox faith in western literature and film...many think of the scene in Dr. Zhivago where a young woman confesses to a priest who promptly tells her "You are a harlot and will burn in Hell".

As Orthodox I think we have an obigation to bear a gentle witness...speaking the truth but always mindful of our audience and the perspective they come from....Qite frankly I can see an inquirer into Orthodoxy coming into this site and think we are all a bunch of self-righteous legalists...I include myslef here...and am trying t change that) that is why I do not direct non-Orthodox to this site.

I find it amazing how simple things like attending Vespars and DIvine Litrgy, daily prayer and scripture reading...along with fasting....has seemed to attracted the interest of many in my life who themselves are seeking God's truth. When they hear I am Orthodox now...they immediately think hard-line, conservative, rightwinger.....sort of a Catholic fundamentalist...with all the connotations that go with that.

Offline Tallitot

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Re:"Pupose Driven Life"
« Reply #25 on: September 28, 2004, 11:16:23 PM »
Let me get this straight: if an Episcopalian doesn't like the style of a Protestant book, he's being a nasty Orthodox?  

My coworkers are all Roman Catholic, so... if an Episcopalian doesn't like the style of a Protestant book,given to him by Roman Catholics, he's being a nasty Orthodox.
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Offline Doubting Thomas

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Re:"Pupose Driven Life"
« Reply #26 on: September 29, 2004, 08:09:56 AM »

As Orthodox I think we have an obigation to bear a gentle witness...speaking the truth but always mindful of our audience and the perspective they come from....Qite frankly I can see an inquirer into Orthodoxy coming into this site and think we are all a bunch of self-righteous legalists...I include myslef here...and am trying t change that) that is why I do not direct non-Orthodox to this site.


Well to put your mind at ease, I'm non-Orthodox and I don't think you are a "bunch of self-righteous legalists".  There is quite a diversity of personalities and opinions here.  I do appreciate that most have been very helpful in answering my many questions.
"My Lord and My God!"--Doubting Thomas, AD 33

Offline spartacus

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Re:"Pupose Driven Life"
« Reply #27 on: September 29, 2004, 12:39:37 PM »
My coworkers are all Roman Catholic, so... if an Episcopalian doesn't like the style of a Protestant book,given to him by Roman Catholics, he's being a nasty Orthodox.


Although I am disappointed, I am not surprisd to read of ROman Catholics using the PDL book. I have heard of some parishes using it during Lent...perhaps in an effort to bump up attendance and donations which is lagging.

In fact I expect , and have heard mentioned, my old RC Parish might be using it this coming Lent. It used to be the wealthiest parish in its diocese, but fell well short of its budget this year. Its annual report proclaims, we are growing in numbers, but attendance and donations are down. Of course they are growing in number, because they refuse to remove families like mine who have left, and view new people coming from other parishes, becuase they have moved into the area, as growth. No doubt....many of these "new parishioners" are still registered at their old parish as well....

Roman Catholicsm today in the US is very much like Protestantism. Although I no longer have it, there was once a survey conducted among RCs and it showed more than 60% do not believe Christ is actually present in the Eucharist.

Reading more of the book, I can see how it might be useful for a Church not in touch with Apostolic Tradition. Many RC Parishes in the US are no longer in touch with the Tradition. Like the Protestants, their efforst seem directed and building numbers rather than building the Kingdom.

After all according to the PDL "God wants to be your best friend"...Such statements just seem superfluous. How can God be both our best friend and our Judge? Yes, we need to seek and ask God for His friendship and Help...But we are also consatntly praying "Lord Have Mercy" .

For Lent...much better to read "Great Lent" by Alexander Schmemann.

Offline sinjinsmythe

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Re:"Pupose Driven Life"
« Reply #28 on: November 23, 2004, 01:10:47 AM »
God has no plan for your life.  Frankly, I don't think God cares about what you do with your life.  Who wants God to be their friend? He will only let you down just like friends do.  Life is purposeless, cruel, and full of pain.  It has no meaning.  So much garbage peddled by the "pop Christian" culture is just feel good rubbish.  This whole God has a plan for you is nothing more than crap to make one feel special. How God has a plan for me doesn't make me feel any special, in fact who would want God after all to have a plan for their life? After all, one could say God had a plan for Job and looked at what the hell happened to him. But you won't here that from the pop Christian crowd...no it is all about blessings and how God wants to do this for you...never about how God can do some cruel things to you or screw you over or ignore you.
Life is just one disappointment after another.

Offline Arystarcus

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Re:"Pupose Driven Life"
« Reply #29 on: November 23, 2004, 01:18:42 AM »
Look, I know that you are down in the dumps and all, but do you really think that it is appropriate to post things like this in a Christian forum?

I truly think you should sit down and talk this and whatever issues you may have, or have been having with your priest and if not him, then a counselor or something because it is apparent that you need some kind of affirmation and direction in your life.

Making posts like the one above are not going to do anything but get people riled up or pissed off at you - is that your intention?

In Christ,
Aaron

Offline sinjinsmythe

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Re:"Pupose Driven Life"
« Reply #30 on: November 23, 2004, 01:27:42 AM »
Look, I know that you are down in the dumps and all, but do you really think that it is appropriate to post things like this in a Christian forum?

I truly think you should sit down and talk this and whatever issues you may have, or have been having with your priest and if not him, then a counselor or something because it is apparent that you need some kind of affirmation and direction in your life.

Making posts like the one above are not going to do anything but get people riled up or pissed off at you - is that your intention?

In Christ,
Aaron

I was only expressing my views that I believe. I realize that people may not like them, but that is how I feel. I forgot that on a Christian forum we can only think and say happy things. Since we can only do that, I guess I have no other option than to say happy things and think happy thoughts. I am sorry if it bothers you that some people struggle with life. With that, I think I will leave this forum for good since a) I am wasting my time b) disturbing you from your happiness.
Life is just one disappointment after another.

Offline Arystarcus

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Re:"Pupose Driven Life"
« Reply #31 on: November 23, 2004, 01:41:38 AM »
Quote
I was only expressing my views that I believe. I realize that people may not like them, but that is how I feel.

Look, I know that is how you may feel, but I feel a lot of things too and if I posted them on here then some people would probably be cheezed off at me. I know that's how you feel and that is fine with me, I was just saying that perhaps it would be best if you shared these things with your priest or a counselor because it would be more profitable for you.

Quote
I forgot that on a Christian forum we can only think and say happy things.

That's not the case, people bicker and argue on Christian forums all the time, I wasn't saying you had to be one of the shiny happy people - see above.

Quote
Since we can only do that, I guess I have no other option than to say happy things and think happy thoughts.

From your most recent posts it doesn't appear that that is the wavelength you are on right now, but perhaps thinking about something positive might shine a new light on things and give you a better outlook on life.

Quote
I am sorry if it bothers you that some people struggle with life.

I never said it bothered me, please do not read into my coments or add things onto them which I neither stated or meant. I've struggled with a lot of things in my own life and I have felt exactly like what you have posted, but sometimes life sucks, period, point blank. That is the way it is, once something happens you cannot turn back the hands of time and fix it, so it is best to leave it in the past and move on. If you persist in dwelling on the negative aspects of life you will continue to dig yourself deeper and deeper into this well of despair. I know because I have done it myself.

Quote
With that, I think I will leave this forum for good since a) I am wasting my time b) disturbing you from your happiness.

If you decide to leave the forum, it will be of your own choice. If that is something that you feel the need to do, then that is the way it is. I do not believe you are wasting your time, you obviously have some things that are concerning you and I think that it's always good to talk about what is bothering you. Please don't fly off the handle and think I want you leave the forum or that somehow you are disturbing me, because you aren't. I pray that as you are going through some of these older posts that you have been posting on, you may find something profitable for your soul and well-being and that God will show you that He loves you, always has and always will.

May God grant peace to your soul and mind.

In Christ,
Aaron
« Last Edit: November 23, 2004, 01:46:13 AM by Arystarcus »

Offline GabrieltheCelt

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EO view of The Purpose Driven Life by Rick Warren
« Reply #32 on: May 28, 2008, 10:30:46 AM »
I had a friend give this book to me and wanted to know what the EO response to this book is.  One problem I have so far is that the versions of the Bible Mr. Warren has used seem odd.  He uses the NIV, NKJV, and a few others I've not heard of before.  When I go to check them out with the OSB, it seems as if it says something a little different.  Thoughts?

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Offline lubeltri

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Re: EO view of The Purpose Driven Life by Rick Warren
« Reply #33 on: May 28, 2008, 10:55:54 AM »
I don't know the EO view, but I have this book (Baptist father gave it to me). It's . . .okay with some discernment.

He uses the NIV because it is the most common Bible translation for Evangelicals. It was really made for Evangelicals, so that is not a surprise. The translation is a little too loose for my taste.

A better book (IMO) is:





Offline FrChris

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Re: "Pupose Driven Life"
« Reply #34 on: May 28, 2008, 11:07:42 AM »
Just so everyone knows...I merged this thread with an earlier one.

+Fr Chris
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Offline ytterbiumanalyst

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Re: "Pupose Driven Life"
« Reply #35 on: May 28, 2008, 11:29:08 AM »
It seems to me that since people like Rick Warren preach that salvation is instantaneous, they have to come up with reasons other than working out your salvation for people to show up to church. So they invent lots of "ministries" so that people can be so busy at the church that they have to come several days a week. This book seemed to be mostly about how to appropriately burden yourself at church so that you don't burn out.

That said, the Orthodox Church to my knowledge doesn't care who publishes what self-help book. Just don't rely on any of them to actually change your life. That requires hard work, not pop psychology.
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Offline Andrea

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Re: EO view of The Purpose Driven Life by Rick Warren
« Reply #36 on: May 28, 2008, 11:47:31 AM »
I had a friend give this book to me and wanted to know what the EO response to this book is.  One problem I have so far is that the versions of the Bible Mr. Warren has used seem odd.  He uses the NIV, NKJV, and a few others I've not heard of before.  When I go to check them out with the OSB, it seems as if it says something a little different.  Thoughts?

In Christ,

Gabriel

Well, I'm not EO, and I'm kind of butting in, but I was given this book when I was going to the local Episcopal church a couple of years ago, and quite frankly, I couldn't really get into it, as I felt it was written kind of infomercial-style.   That's what I remember anyway, I haven't looked at it in a while, so maybe I shouldn't have butted in at all... :D

As far as his bible versions though, I just double checked and the Orthodox Study NT and Psalms I have is a NKJV, so I'd think the verses would be the same??

Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re: "Pupose Driven Life"
« Reply #37 on: May 28, 2008, 01:18:27 PM »
I read it finally and found it not bad for a couple of days - the first two or three days of the thirty day program. After that it distilled into Evangelicalism to a large degree. Gave the book away.
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Offline Quinault

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Re: "Pupose Driven Life"
« Reply #38 on: May 28, 2008, 03:02:32 PM »
I read it years ago as a protestant, I think in about 2004 maybe?

I couldn't stand it. I read about 3 days into it and wanted to vomit. And when I took it to my local bookstore to sell it to them, they had too many to want mine above the price of two cents. So it seems many people buy it, can't stand it, and then try to resell it.

Offline Fr. David

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Re: "Pupose Driven Life"
« Reply #39 on: May 28, 2008, 04:34:24 PM »
It seems to me that since people like Rick Warren preach that salvation is instantaneous, they have to come up with reasons other than working out your salvation for people to show up to church. So they invent lots of "ministries" so that people can be so busy at the church that they have to come several days a week. This book seemed to be mostly about how to appropriately burden yourself at church so that you don't burn out.

That said, the Orthodox Church to my knowledge doesn't care who publishes what self-help book. Just don't rely on any of them to actually change your life. That requires hard work, not pop psychology.

Wow.  Well said.  And WEIRD to revisit this OLD thread and see some of these names I haven't seen in years...! :o
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Offline EofK

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Re: "Pupose Driven Life"
« Reply #40 on: May 28, 2008, 05:18:41 PM »
It seems to me that since people like Rick Warren preach that salvation is instantaneous, they have to come up with reasons other than working out your salvation for people to show up to church. So they invent lots of "ministries" so that people can be so busy at the church that they have to come several days a week. This book seemed to be mostly about how to appropriately burden yourself at church so that you don't burn out.

I got the impression, after reading this and The Purpose Driven Church, that the main goal of both books were to increase church numbers and thereby increase the church coffers.  I have to say I agree with the above mentions that the book is mostly fluff.  I read it about five years ago as a Protestant and I can't remember anything in the book other than a vaguely feel-good sensation.  Myeh.
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Offline Nyssa The Hobbit

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Re: "Pupose Driven Life"
« Reply #41 on: May 28, 2008, 07:36:02 PM »
I read it as a Protestant, still in the Evangelical Free Church I believe, so no, my opinions were not based on being Orthodox.  ;)  DH and I both thought it was fluffy, taking Scriptures out of context (and using whatever Bible translation or paraphrase, such as the Message, fit best).  Parts of it offended DH's Lutheran background; parts of it offended my own Wesleyan background....All around, we just couldn't stand it.  DH made it farther than I did, and still couldn't finish it.
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Offline GabrieltheCelt

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Re: "Pupose Driven Life"
« Reply #42 on: May 28, 2008, 09:30:17 PM »
, taking Scriptures out of context (and using whatever Bible translation or paraphrase, such as the Message, fit best). 
This is exactly what I was thinking.  First off, I thought 'why would someone appeal to 5-6 different translations?'.  Then, whenever I checked the translations Mr. Warren used against the OSB translation, they often said something very different.  I may decide to read it just so I'll have a different viewpoint, but I'll probably read it passively.
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Offline aurelia

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Re:"Pupose Driven Life"
« Reply #43 on: May 29, 2008, 01:03:56 PM »
I read non-Orthodox books all the time, for the record.

me too, which probably isn't much of a surprise.

Offline EofK

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Re: "Pupose Driven Life"
« Reply #44 on: May 29, 2008, 02:57:23 PM »
This is exactly what I was thinking.  First off, I thought 'why would someone appeal to 5-6 different translations?'.  Then, whenever I checked the translations Mr. Warren used against the OSB translation, they often said something very different.  I may decide to read it just so I'll have a different viewpoint, but I'll probably read it passively.

There's a school of thought in Protestant bible study that the more translations you use to compare, the better chance you have of getting the meaning of the passage.  The idea is that there is no one good scriptural translation, so compare the ones out there and pick the one that offers the best translation for you.  The problem with that (obviously) is that you end up making up your own interpretation.  What really gets me is when authors use The Message ... it's not even a translation, it's a paraphrase, i.e. an interpretation of an interpretation. 
Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. -- Douglas Adams