Author Topic: Frank Schaffer to be on Nightlne with Koppel Tonight  (Read 3430 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Orthodoc

  • Supporter & Defender Of Orthodoxy
  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,526
  • Those who ignore history tend to repeat it.
Frank Schaffer to be on Nightlne with Koppel Tonight
« on: January 08, 2003, 05:27:39 PM »

Frank Schaeffer will be on Nightline with Ted Koepel (ABC) tonight Jan 8th.

Orthodoc
Oh Lord, Save thy people and bless thine inheritance.
Grant victory to the Orthodox Christians over their adversaries.
And by virtue of thy Cross preserve thy habitation.

Hypo-Ortho

  • Guest
Re:Frank Schaffer to be on Nightlne with Koppel Tonight
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2003, 05:36:43 PM »

Frank Schaeffer will be on Nightline with Ted Koepel (ABC) tonight Jan 8th.

Orthodoc

This should be good.  I won't miss it.  Thanks, Orthodoc.

Hypo-Ortho

Offline sinjinsmythe

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 737
Re:Frank Schaffer to be on Nightlne with Koppel Tonight
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2003, 06:19:07 PM »
What is he on Nightline for?
Life is just one disappointment after another.

Offline Orthodoc

  • Supporter & Defender Of Orthodoxy
  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,526
  • Those who ignore history tend to repeat it.
Re:Frank Schaffer to be on Nightlne with Koppel Tonight
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2003, 06:34:18 PM »
[What is he on Nightline for?]

Probably in connection with reinstituting the draft.  He was probably invited because of his new book which is about his son joining the marines.  I doubt if he was invited in a religious context.  But I may be wrong.

Orthodoc
Oh Lord, Save thy people and bless thine inheritance.
Grant victory to the Orthodox Christians over their adversaries.
And by virtue of thy Cross preserve thy habitation.

Offline sinjinsmythe

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 737
Re:Frank Schaffer to be on Nightlne with Koppel Tonight
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2003, 07:07:24 PM »
[What is he on Nightline for?]

Probably in connection with reinstituting the draft.  He was probably invited because of his new book which is about his son joining the marines.  I doubt if he was invited in a religious context.  But I may be wrong.

Orthodoc

He wrote a book abut his son joining the marines?  So what is the big deal about that? ???
Life is just one disappointment after another.

Offline Orthodoc

  • Supporter & Defender Of Orthodoxy
  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,526
  • Those who ignore history tend to repeat it.
Re:Frank Schaffer to be on Nightlne with Koppel Tonight
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2003, 07:59:01 PM »
[He wrote a book abut his son joining the marines?  So what is the big deal about that? ]

http://abcnews.go.com/Sections/Nightline/

"The Military Draft
Rep. Charles Rangel plans to introduce legislation to restore the military
draft as a step to "help bring a greater appreciation of the consequences
of decisions to go to war." In an editorial in the Washington Post, author
Frank Schaeffer writes about his son's decision to enlist in the military:
"Before my son became a Marine, I never thought much about who was
defending me . . . My son has connected me to my country in a way that I
was too selfish and insular to experience before." On Wednesday, January 8,
Nightline will take a look at the logistics of the process that would be
necessary to reinstitute the draft and the reasons that some people think
the Country would benefit, or suffer, from doing so. "

-----------

washingtonpost.com
My Heart on the Line


By Frank Schaeffer

Tuesday, November 26, 2002; Page A29


Before my son became a Marine, I never thought much about who was defending
me. Now when I read of the war on terrorism or the coming conflict in Iraq,
it cuts to my heart. When I see a picture of a member of our military who
has been killed, I read his or her name very carefully. Sometimes I cry.

In 1999, when the barrel-chested Marine recruiter showed up in dress blues
and bedazzled my son John, I did not stand in the way. John was headstrong,
and he seemed to understand these stern, clean men with straight backs and
flawless uniforms. I did not. I live on the Volvo-driving, higher
education-worshiping North Shore of Boston. I write novels for a living. I
have never served in the military.

It had been hard enough sending my two older children off to Georgetown and
New York University. John's enlisting was unexpected, so deeply unsettling.
I did not relish the prospect of answering the question "So where is John
going to college?" from the parents who were itching to tell me all about
how their son or daughter was going to Harvard. At the private high school
John attended, no other students were going into the military.

"But aren't the Marines terribly Southern?" asked one perplexed mother
while standing next to me at the brunch following graduation. "What a
waste, he was such a good student," said another parent. One parent (a
professor at a nearby and rather famous university) spoke up at a school
meeting and suggested that the school should "carefully evaluate what went
wrong."

When John graduated from three months of boot camp on Parris Island, 3,000
parents and friends were on the parade deck stands. We parents and our
Marines not only were of many races but also were representative of many
economic classes. Many were poor. Some arrived crammed in the backs of
pickups, others by bus. John told me that a lot of parents could not afford
the trip.

We in the audience were white and Native American. We were Hispanic, Arab
and African American and Asian. We were former Marines wearing the scars of
battle, or at least baseball caps emblazoned with battles' names. We were
Southern whites from Nashville and skinheads from New Jersey, black kids
from Cleveland wearing ghetto rags and white ex-cons with ham-hock forearms
defaced by jailhouse tattoos. We would not have been mistaken for the
educated and well-heeled parents gathered on the lawns of John's private
school a half-year before.

After graduation one new Marine told John, "Before I was a Marine, if I had
ever seen you on my block I would've probably killed you just because you
were standing there." This was a serious statement from one of John's good
friends, an African American ex-gang member from Detroit who, as John said,
"would die for me now, just like I'd die for him."

My son has connected me to my country in a way that I was too selfish and
insular to experience before. I feel closer to the waitress at our local
diner than to some of my oldest friends. She has two sons in the Corps.
They are facing the same dangers as my boy. When the guy who fixes my car
asks me how John is doing, I know he means it. His younger brother is in
the Navy.

Why were I and the other parents at my son's private school so surprised by
his choice? During World War II, the sons and daughters of the most
powerful and educated families did their bit. If the immorality of the
Vietnam War was the only reason those lucky enough to go to college dodged
the draft, why did we not encourage our children to volunteer for military
service once that war was done?

Have we wealthy and educated Americans all become pacifists? Is the world a
safe place? Or have we just gotten used to having somebody else defend us?
What is the future of our democracy when the sons and daughters of the
janitors at our elite universities are far more likely to be put in harm's
way than are any of the students whose dorms their parents clean?

I feel shame because it took my son's joining the Marine Corps to make me
take notice of who is defending me. I feel hope because perhaps my son is
part of a future "greatest generation." As the storm clouds of war gather,
at least I know that I can look the men and women in uniform in the eye. My
son is one of them. He is the best I have to offer. He is my heart.

Frank Schaeffer is a writer. His latest book, co-written with his son,
Marine Cpl. John Schaeffer, is "Keeping Faith: A Father-Son Story About
Love and the United States Marine Corps." He will answer questions about
this article in a Live Online discussion at 1 p.m. today at
www.washingtonpost.com.


Orthodoc
Oh Lord, Save thy people and bless thine inheritance.
Grant victory to the Orthodox Christians over their adversaries.
And by virtue of thy Cross preserve thy habitation.

Offline sinjinsmythe

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 737
Re:Frank Schaffer to be on Nightlne with Koppel Tonight
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2003, 08:07:10 PM »
Thank you Orthodoc. :-*
Life is just one disappointment after another.

Offline JoeS

  • (aka StMarkEofE)
  • Site Supporter
  • OC.net guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,122
  • Global Warming Enthusiast.
Re:Frank Schaffer to be on Nightlne with Koppel Tonight
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2003, 09:38:38 PM »
Quote
Tune in to find out, it may surprise you.
JoeS 8)


He wrote a book abut his son joining the marines?  So what is the big deal about that? ???

Offline Robert

  • "Amazing"
  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,442
Re:Frank Schaffer to be on Nightlne with Koppel Tonight
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2003, 09:12:14 AM »
Very interesting segment.

A priest-friend once told me that serving one's country is an act of piety. I found this to be an interesting statement, but realize it may be offensive to many. I realize now, that with possible war pending with the Middle East, people are quite on edge. Many anti-war protests rage throughout both the United States and the rest of the world.  What they fail to realize is that war is a bunch of young guys, going off and killing other young guys.

I read somewhere that during the Cold War, Russian military planes that passed overhead would wave Playboys magazines down to the American soldiers that were on the ground. In mutual agreement, the Americans would give the Russians the thumbs up!

As I drive around on my day to day tasks, work, school, fun, I see a plethora of sport utility vehicles, mini-vans, and other cars, with mothers who tote around their kids, going to mcdonalds, and then hitting up the soccer game. They're completely oblivious to the world, and as long as noone interrupts their daily routine, mcdonalds, kids, and soccer games, they could care less. They fail to realize that young people are getting sent off to potential war, and others, like myself in the national guard, are pending activation.

These are just my feelings. I hope Frank Schaffer opens up the eyes of a few Americans.


Bobby


Offline Ebor

  • Vanyar
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,492
Re:Frank Schaffer to be on Nightlne with Koppel Tonight
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2003, 10:10:53 AM »

...What they fail to realize is that war is a bunch of young guys, going off and killing other young guys.

I read somewhere that during the Cold War, Russian military planes that passed overhead would wave Playboys magazines down to the American soldiers that were on the ground. In mutual agreement, the Americans would give the Russians the thumbs up!


Do you know about Christmas 1914 on the Western Front?  for a day there was no war between the British and the Germans.  Individual soldiers ventured into No-man's Land and there was a truce, gifts of food to each other, songs and a football scrimmage.  The high command was  horrified.
"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

The Katana of Reasoned Discussion

For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.

Offline The young fogey

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 3,159
  • Milhouse van Houten in a Raymond Chandler novel
    • A conservative blog for peace
  • Faith: Catholic
  • Jurisdiction: Archdiocese of Philadelphia, Roman Rite
Re:Frank Schaffer to be on Nightlne with Koppel Tonight
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2003, 01:26:22 PM »
Quote
A priest-friend once told me that serving one’s country is an act of piety. I found this to be an interesting statement, but realize it may be offensive to many.

I agree, which is one of the reasons why our servicemen deserve respect.

Quote
I realize now, that with possible war pending with the Middle East, people are quite on edge. Many anti-war protests rage throughout both the United States and the rest of the world.

My site IS an antiwar protest.

While the US military deserves respect, and Schaeffer makes a very good point about the snobbery* many affluent Americans feel towards our servicemen, the sad thing is our troops risk being killed for no justifiable reason — for the sake of an imperial New World Order and not really to defend America. I am antiwar partly because I do care about our soldiers like Schaeffer does.

Quote
As I drive around on my day to day tasks, work, school, fun, I see a plethora of sport utility vehicles, mini-vans, and other cars, with mothers who tote around their kids, going to mcdonalds, and then hitting up the soccer game. They're completely oblivious to the world, and as long as noone interrupts their daily routine, mcdonalds, kids, and soccer games, they could care less. They fail to realize that young people are getting sent off to potential war, and others, like myself in the national guard, are pending activation.

Secular yuppie selfishness is a problem but then again, I am thankful for the ‘bobos’ among us, the ‘bourgeois bohemians’ or today’s yuppies, whose affluence trickles down to me (really one of the working poor) in many little ways — everything from having this computer and a high-speed connection to socialize and exercise my mind to enjoying gourmet coffee and a good book at Borders bookshops or at the local Victorian train station turned into a coffee bar and art gallery. There’s plenty of food available whenever I need and even to match whatever taste or craving one may have. I’m poor by American standards but compared to the rest of the world I can live like a king. This is a great country, one worth defending if it REALLY were attacked, by a real enemy intent on invading and destroying it. Antiwar doesn’t necessarily mean pacifist. I am not the latter.

Maybe the people enjoying their families and the other parts of their lives can see through Bush’s war fever and see what’s really important.

Americans at their best are a peace-loving people. It’s the government that is causing the problems, propping up states like Israel.
 
The story of the Christmas truce in 1914 is linked to the News Archive of my site.

*Comes in both ‘liberal’ (misguided antiwar enthusiasm) and ‘conservative’ (the armchair generals who disdain the blue-collar white, black and Latino kids they callously send to die in the wars they start) versions. I nearly joined the Navy out of high school and got to experience some of this snobbery first hand.
"You always were a historically illiterate jerk, John." - OicwR doyen Stuart Koehl

Russian icons and Byzantine prayers at home; Ukrainian Catholic parish once a month. Traditional Latin Mass most other Sundays.

High-church libertarian
Blog

Offline Ebor

  • Vanyar
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,492
Re:Frank Schaffer to be on Nightlne with Koppel Tonight
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2003, 02:19:35 PM »

*Comes in both ‘liberal’ (misguided antiwar enthusiasm) and ‘conservative’ (the armchair generals who disdain the blue-collar white, black and Latino kids they callously send to die in the wars they start) versions. I nearly joined the Navy out of high school and got to experience some of this snobbery first hand.

"It's Tommy this and Tommy that and "Chuck him out, the Brute!"/But it's "Savior of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot..."
"Tommy" Rudyard Kipling
"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

The Katana of Reasoned Discussion

For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.

Offline JoeS

  • (aka StMarkEofE)
  • Site Supporter
  • OC.net guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,122
  • Global Warming Enthusiast.
Re:Frank Schaffer to be on Nightlne with Koppel Tonight
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2003, 02:42:36 PM »
Technically and realistically speaking, we have been attacked and most likely will continue to be attacked by Islamic fundamentalists at our military bases, ports, as well as embassies and consolates, not to mention right here in the USA.  Our embassies and consolates are recognized internationally as United States territory.  When you attack our embassies, consolates, military bases, et al, IT IS an attack on the US.  We dont have to have an invasion to go to war.  I doubt seriously if we would experience another Pearl Harbor but the tragety at the WTC isnt chopped liver either.  As long as we maintain interests around the world, and I dont see this changing in my lifetime, we will be under the threat of attack by these looney tunes in the muslim world.   I dont claim to know much about foriegn policy but I do know that those citizens, be they civilian or military, who are stationed around the world deserve our support and deserve our defense. And I dont see us pulling everyone from the rest of the world back to the USA to create a "Fortress America".  Afghanistan has, at least for the present, been neutralized from initiating any major attack on the US via Taliban.  Iraq has had stockpiles of biological and chemical agents since 1991.  Now, what has happened to this stockpile since then.  1) Did they destroyed it?  I doubt this happened.  2) They exported some of it to other sympathetic countries? Very possible. (a threat to us) 3) They still have and continue to produce these in secret (a definite threat to us). This, I hope, may explain why we take good ole Saddam seriously nowadays.  I would like to see an insurection that would lead to his dethronement but this will probably not happen.  I see a complete lack of trust by some who would dismiss out of hand any action that would result in the removal of this despot.  IMHO

JoeS

Economan

  • Guest
Re:Frank Schaffer to be on Nightlne with Koppel Tonight
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2003, 03:09:20 PM »
"While the US military deserves respect, and Schaeffer makes a very good point about the snobbery* many affluent Americans feel towards our servicemen, the sad thing is our troops risk being killed for no justifiable reason — for the sake of an imperial New World Order and not really to defend America. I am antiwar partly because I do care about our soldiers like Schaeffer does."

Ah, yes, that old Novus Ordo Seculorum, the fall guy for the Pat Buchanan isolationist right.

"[This is a great country, one worth defending if it REALLY were attacked, by a real enemy intent on invading and destroying it. Antiwar doesn’t necessarily mean pacifist. I am not the latter."

The standard libertarian/pacifist cop-out. Waiting (especially with today's technology) for the equivelant of an enemy fleet to appear over the horizon is suicide.

"Americans at their best are a peace-loving people. It’s the government that is causing the problems, propping up states like Israel."

When a single predominately Arab Muslim country has a parliament with Jewish members, (that just doesn't rubber stamp what a dictator says) I will think differently. I see anti-semititsm is always wrong, but its always ok to bash Israel. Also, in case you didn't know, the U.S has repeatedly called for a Palestinian State, (though under different leadership) and prior to 1967 American support for Israel was very lukewarm.
 

"*Comes in both ‘liberal’ (misguided antiwar enthusiasm) and ‘conservative’ (the armchair generals who disdain the blue-collar white, black and Latino kids they callously send to die in the wars they start) versions. I nearly joined the Navy out of high school and got to experience some of this snobbery first hand."

The favorite attempt of the anti-war crowd to gain the moral high ground. Logically*, why is military experience necessary to decide what the military should do? People routinely voice their opinion on issues that they are not experts in. Are you an MD? If not, you're not qualified to speak on abortion. Do you think taxes should be lower? Irrelevant, unless you have a doctorate in economics. Congress routinely makes decisions in areas in which many of them individually have no experience in. Why should the military be any different. Of course, this also ignores the fact that many ex-military support the War. Finally, we live in a democratic republic, in which its irrelevant if a civillian leader has served in the military. To insist otherwise leads to a dictatorship.

*I'm not 100% behind this line of reasoning, but it has its merits.

Economan
« Last Edit: January 09, 2003, 03:15:57 PM by Economan »

Offline varangia

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 26
Re:Frank Schaffer to be on Nightlne with Koppel Tonight
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2003, 08:59:42 PM »
I thought participating in an Orthodox message board would be a haven from the neo-/paleo- divide.  

Just to establish my bona fides with Economan, I voted for Ronald Reagan twice.  I subscribed to National Review until after the first go around with Iraq, shortly after which I became Orthodox.   In addition to being one of the greatest countries on earth, with tremendous capacity for good, the U.S. war against Serbia opened my eyes to the tremendous capacity for malignity that we represent, which was reinforced by listening to Orthodox Christians from Eastern Europe and the Middle East.  I think it was at the start of the Boer War that Chesterton said something to the effect that adopting a reflexive "My country right or wrong" approach is analogous to saying "My Mother drunk or sober."  Well, right now, the U.S. is very, very drunk.

Serge, bro, keep up your good work with that website!
NULL