Author Topic: St. Thomas Aquinas-the filioque  (Read 2608 times)

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Offline vasily

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St. Thomas Aquinas-the filioque
« on: February 02, 2012, 12:53:01 PM »
 I have read some of St. Thomas's Summa Theologica, and I am confused. Question: In his writings does he support the filioque addition?

Offline mike

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Re: St. Thomas Aquinas-the filioque
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2012, 12:54:22 PM »
Why wouldn't he?

Offline Maria

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Re: St. Thomas Aquinas-the filioque
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2012, 01:38:47 PM »
I have read some of St. Thomas's Summa Theologica, and I am confused. Question: In his writings does he support the filioque addition?

Thomas Aquinas was one of several theologians who did not accept the concept of the Immaculate Conception, as it was not considered to be Catholic dogma then.

However, since he was born after the Great Schism (1054 A.D.) and the filioque was one of the main reasons for the schism between Catholics and Orthodoxy, yes, he supported the doctrine of the filioque. Nevertheless, he was on his way to the Council of Florence to help "solve" the schism when he died.
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Re: St. Thomas Aquinas-the filioque
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2012, 01:45:37 PM »
Quote from: Maria
Nevertheless, he was on his way to the Council of Florence to help "solve" the schism when he died.

Now I'm sad.  :'( :'(
He will come again with glory to judge the living and the dead. His kingdom will have no end.

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Offline Ortho_cat

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Re: St. Thomas Aquinas-the filioque
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2012, 01:50:14 PM »
Quote from: Maria
Nevertheless, he was on his way to the Council of Florence to help "solve" the schism when he died.

Now I'm sad.  :'( :'(

i doubt much would have come of it either way...

Offline biro

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Re: St. Thomas Aquinas-the filioque
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2012, 01:52:40 PM »
Quote from: Maria
Nevertheless, he was on his way to the Council of Florence to help "solve" the schism when he died.

Now I'm sad.  :'( :'(

i doubt much would have come of it either way...

Still, I can dream.  ;)
He will come again with glory to judge the living and the dead. His kingdom will have no end.

--

And if I seem a little strange, well, that's because I am

Offline Maria

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Re: St. Thomas Aquinas-the filioque
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2012, 02:45:09 PM »
Quote from: Maria
Nevertheless, he was on his way to the Council of Florence to help "solve" the schism when he died.

Now I'm sad.  :'( :'(

i doubt much would have come of it either way...

Still, I can dream.  ;)

Who knows?

Perhaps he would have joined the Orthodox Church?
In fact, the Dominicans, to which St. Thomas Aquinas belonged, did send two groups of Dominican friars to the East to help "solve" the schism: one to Constantinople, and the other to Georgia. Both priories converted to Orthodoxy. The ones in Georgia were known as the white monks as they did not have the funds to buy expensive black monastic robes. St. Seraphim of Sarov adopted the white habit and the Rosary devotion from these ex-Dominicans.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2012, 02:46:42 PM by Maria »
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Offline stanley123

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Re: St. Thomas Aquinas-the filioque
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2012, 04:17:28 PM »
I have read some of St. Thomas's Summa Theologica, and I am confused. Question: In his writings does he support the filioque addition?
Summa Theologica: First part. Question 36, article 2: Whether the Holy Ghost proceeds from the Son?
"...Hence also the Greeks themselves recognize that the procession of the Holy Ghost has some order to the Son. For they grant that the Holy Ghost is the Spirit "of the Son"; and that He is from the Father "through the Son." Some of them are said also to concede that "He is from the Son"; or that "He flows from the Son," but not that He proceeds..."
Thomas's exposition has to some extent been superceded by a recent document.
http://www.scoba.us/resources/orthodox-catholic/2003filioque.html

Offline James2

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Re: St. Thomas Aquinas-the filioque
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2012, 04:30:36 PM »
I have read some of St. Thomas's Summa Theologica, and I am confused. Question: In his writings does he support the filioque addition?

Thomas Aquinas was one of several theologians who did not accept the concept of the Immaculate Conception, as it was not considered to be Catholic dogma then.

However, since he was born after the Great Schism (1054 A.D.) and the filioque was one of the main reasons for the schism between Catholics and Orthodoxy, yes, he supported the doctrine of the filioque. Nevertheless, he was on his way to the Council of Florence to help "solve" the schism when he died.

Surely you mean the 2nd Council of Lyons (1272-1274), not the Council of Florence.

Offline Maria

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Re: St. Thomas Aquinas-the filioque
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2012, 04:39:30 PM »
I have read some of St. Thomas's Summa Theologica, and I am confused. Question: In his writings does he support the filioque addition?

Thomas Aquinas was one of several theologians who did not accept the concept of the Immaculate Conception, as it was not considered to be Catholic dogma then.

However, since he was born after the Great Schism (1054 A.D.) and the filioque was one of the main reasons for the schism between Catholics and Orthodoxy, yes, he supported the doctrine of the filioque. Nevertheless, he was on his way to the Council of Florence to help "solve" the schism when he died.

Surely you mean the 2nd Council of Lyons (1272-1274), not the Council of Florence.

Yes, you are correct as he was born in 1225 and died on 7 March 1274.
Thank you.
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Offline MarkosC

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Re: St. Thomas Aquinas-the filioque
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2012, 03:45:46 PM »
Quote from: Maria
Nevertheless, he was on his way to the Council of Florence to help "solve" the schism when he died.

Now I'm sad.  :'( :'(

i doubt much would have come of it either way...

Still, I can dream.  ;)

Who knows?

Perhaps he would have joined the Orthodox Church?
In fact, the Dominicans, to which St. Thomas Aquinas belonged, did send two groups of Dominican friars to the East to help "solve" the schism: one to Constantinople, and the other to Georgia. Both priories converted to Orthodoxy. The ones in Georgia were known as the white monks as they did not have the funds to buy expensive black monastic robes. St. Seraphim of Sarov adopted the white habit and the Rosary devotion from these ex-Dominicans.

Cool.  Is there a source for this?
O Lord although I desired to blot out
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And for the rest of my life to please Thee
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Yet doth the enemy lead me astray as he wareth
against my sould with his cunning

O Lord before I utterly perish do Thou save me!

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Re: St. Thomas Aquinas-the filioque
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2012, 04:02:13 PM »
Quote from: Maria
Nevertheless, he was on his way to the Council of Florence to help "solve" the schism when he died.

Now I'm sad.  :'( :'(

i doubt much would have come of it either way...

Still, I can dream.  ;)

Who knows?

Perhaps he would have joined the Orthodox Church?
In fact, the Dominicans, to which St. Thomas Aquinas belonged, did send two groups of Dominican friars to the East to help "solve" the schism: one to Constantinople, and the other to Georgia. Both priories converted to Orthodoxy. The ones in Georgia were known as the white monks as they did not have the funds to buy expensive black monastic robes. St. Seraphim of Sarov adopted the white habit and the Rosary devotion from these ex-Dominicans.
bummer
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

Offline Maria

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Re: St. Thomas Aquinas-the filioque
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2012, 04:18:11 PM »
Quote from: Maria
Nevertheless, he was on his way to the Council of Florence to help "solve" the schism when he died.

Now I'm sad.  :'( :'(

i doubt much would have come of it either way...

Still, I can dream.  ;)

Who knows?

Perhaps he would have joined the Orthodox Church?
In fact, the Dominicans, to which St. Thomas Aquinas belonged, did send two groups of Dominican friars to the East to help "solve" the schism: one to Constantinople, and the other to Georgia. Both priories converted to Orthodoxy. The ones in Georgia were known as the white monks as they did not have the funds to buy expensive black monastic robes. St. Seraphim of Sarov adopted the white habit and the Rosary devotion from these ex-Dominicans.

Cool.  Is there a source for this?

Three of my Dominican professors at a Catholic university that I attended mentioned this defection. It is part of the Dominican history that they studied while undergoing the Dominican novitiate at St. Albert's Priory in Berkeley, California. Unfortunately, I did not have access to their novitiate texts. The fact that St. Seraphim of Sarov personally adopted not only the white monastic garb but also gave his nuns a form of the Dominican Rosary speaks volumes.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2012, 04:18:55 PM by Maria »
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Re: St. Thomas Aquinas-the filioque
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2012, 05:01:12 PM »
Quote from: Maria
Nevertheless, he was on his way to the Council of Florence to help "solve" the schism when he died.

Now I'm sad.  :'( :'(

i doubt much would have come of it either way...

Still, I can dream.  ;)

Who knows?

Perhaps he would have joined the Orthodox Church?
In fact, the Dominicans, to which St. Thomas Aquinas belonged, did send two groups of Dominican friars to the East to help "solve" the schism: one to Constantinople, and the other to Georgia. Both priories converted to Orthodoxy. The ones in Georgia were known as the white monks as they did not have the funds to buy expensive black monastic robes. St. Seraphim of Sarov adopted the white habit and the Rosary devotion from these ex-Dominicans.

Cool.  Is there a source for this?

Three of my Dominican professors at a Catholic university that I attended mentioned this defection. It is part of the Dominican history that they studied while undergoing the Dominican novitiate at St. Albert's Priory in Berkeley, California. Unfortunately, I did not have access to their novitiate texts. The fact that St. Seraphim of Sarov personally adopted not only the white monastic garb but also gave his nuns a form of the Dominican Rosary speaks volumes.

Yes...like that they really were secret Dominicans!!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Just kidding!!!!  Couldn't resist it--it's Friday, and I'm gettin' punchy  ;D.
"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)

Offline biro

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Re: St. Thomas Aquinas-the filioque
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2012, 05:05:33 PM »
The Secret Dominicans is a good name for a band.
He will come again with glory to judge the living and the dead. His kingdom will have no end.

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And if I seem a little strange, well, that's because I am

Offline Maria

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Re: St. Thomas Aquinas-the filioque
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2012, 05:06:12 PM »
Quote from: Maria
Nevertheless, he was on his way to the Council of Florence to help "solve" the schism when he died.

Now I'm sad.  :'( :'(

i doubt much would have come of it either way...

Still, I can dream.  ;)

Who knows?

Perhaps he would have joined the Orthodox Church?
In fact, the Dominicans, to which St. Thomas Aquinas belonged, did send two groups of Dominican friars to the East to help "solve" the schism: one to Constantinople, and the other to Georgia. Both priories converted to Orthodoxy. The ones in Georgia were known as the white monks as they did not have the funds to buy expensive black monastic robes. St. Seraphim of Sarov adopted the white habit and the Rosary devotion from these ex-Dominicans.

Cool.  Is there a source for this?

Three of my Dominican professors at a Catholic university that I attended mentioned this defection. It is part of the Dominican history that they studied while undergoing the Dominican novitiate at St. Albert's Priory in Berkeley, California. Unfortunately, I did not have access to their novitiate texts. The fact that St. Seraphim of Sarov personally adopted not only the white monastic garb but also gave his nuns a form of the Dominican Rosary speaks volumes.

Yes...like that they really were secret Dominicans!!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Just kidding!!!!  Couldn't resist it--it's Friday, and I'm gettin' punchy  ;D.

Obviously, St. Seraphim saw the good and acknowledged it.
Pope John-Paul II mentioned St. Seraphim and St. Dominic in his book Threshold of Hope (I think it was called).
Both emitted the Holy Light of Christ from their foreheads, a foretaste of our own glorification at the Final Resurrection.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2012, 05:07:12 PM by Maria »
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Re: St. Thomas Aquinas-the filioque
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2012, 05:06:27 PM »
The Secret Dominicans is a good name for a band.
Illuminati
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

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Re: St. Thomas Aquinas-the filioque
« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2012, 05:07:20 PM »
The Secret Dominicans is a good name for a band.

What type of music do they play--Russian Reggae?
"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)

Offline J Michael

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Re: St. Thomas Aquinas-the filioque
« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2012, 05:07:43 PM »
"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)

Offline Maria

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Re: St. Thomas Aquinas-the filioque
« Reply #19 on: February 03, 2012, 05:08:10 PM »
The Secret Dominicans is a good name for a band.
Illuminati

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Re: St. Thomas Aquinas-the filioque
« Reply #20 on: February 03, 2012, 05:09:33 PM »
Quote from: Maria
Nevertheless, he was on his way to the Council of Florence to help "solve" the schism when he died.

Now I'm sad.  :'( :'(

i doubt much would have come of it either way...

Still, I can dream.  ;)

Who knows?

Perhaps he would have joined the Orthodox Church?
In fact, the Dominicans, to which St. Thomas Aquinas belonged, did send two groups of Dominican friars to the East to help "solve" the schism: one to Constantinople, and the other to Georgia. Both priories converted to Orthodoxy. The ones in Georgia were known as the white monks as they did not have the funds to buy expensive black monastic robes. St. Seraphim of Sarov adopted the white habit and the Rosary devotion from these ex-Dominicans.

Cool.  Is there a source for this?

Three of my Dominican professors at a Catholic university that I attended mentioned this defection. It is part of the Dominican history that they studied while undergoing the Dominican novitiate at St. Albert's Priory in Berkeley, California. Unfortunately, I did not have access to their novitiate texts. The fact that St. Seraphim of Sarov personally adopted not only the white monastic garb but also gave his nuns a form of the Dominican Rosary speaks volumes.

Yes...like that they really were secret Dominicans!!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Just kidding!!!!  Couldn't resist it--it's Friday, and I'm gettin' punchy  ;D.

Obviously, St. Seraphim saw the good and acknowledged it.
Pope John-Paul II mentioned St. Seraphim and St. Dominic in his book Threshold of Hope (I think it was called).
Both emitted the Holy Light of Christ from their foreheads, a foretaste of our own glorification at the Final Resurrection.

3 of my most favorite saints, by the way.
"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)

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Re: St. Thomas Aquinas-the filioque
« Reply #21 on: February 03, 2012, 05:13:00 PM »
Quote from: Maria
Nevertheless, he was on his way to the Council of Florence to help "solve" the schism when he died.

Now I'm sad.  :'( :'(

i doubt much would have come of it either way...

Still, I can dream.  ;)

Who knows?

Perhaps he would have joined the Orthodox Church?
In fact, the Dominicans, to which St. Thomas Aquinas belonged, did send two groups of Dominican friars to the East to help "solve" the schism: one to Constantinople, and the other to Georgia. Both priories converted to Orthodoxy. The ones in Georgia were known as the white monks as they did not have the funds to buy expensive black monastic robes. St. Seraphim of Sarov adopted the white habit and the Rosary devotion from these ex-Dominicans.

Cool.  Is there a source for this?

Three of my Dominican professors at a Catholic university that I attended mentioned this defection. It is part of the Dominican history that they studied while undergoing the Dominican novitiate at St. Albert's Priory in Berkeley, California. Unfortunately, I did not have access to their novitiate texts. The fact that St. Seraphim of Sarov personally adopted not only the white monastic garb but also gave his nuns a form of the Dominican Rosary speaks volumes.

Cue a post from Stashko denouncing St. Seraphim for being a crypto-Papist.
"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen

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Re: St. Thomas Aquinas-the filioque
« Reply #22 on: February 03, 2012, 05:14:13 PM »
Quote from: Maria
Nevertheless, he was on his way to the Council of Florence to help "solve" the schism when he died.

Now I'm sad.  :'( :'(

i doubt much would have come of it either way...

Still, I can dream.  ;)

Who knows?

Perhaps he would have joined the Orthodox Church?
In fact, the Dominicans, to which St. Thomas Aquinas belonged, did send two groups of Dominican friars to the East to help "solve" the schism: one to Constantinople, and the other to Georgia. Both priories converted to Orthodoxy. The ones in Georgia were known as the white monks as they did not have the funds to buy expensive black monastic robes. St. Seraphim of Sarov adopted the white habit and the Rosary devotion from these ex-Dominicans.

Cool.  Is there a source for this?

Three of my Dominican professors at a Catholic university that I attended mentioned this defection. It is part of the Dominican history that they studied while undergoing the Dominican novitiate at St. Albert's Priory in Berkeley, California. Unfortunately, I did not have access to their novitiate texts. The fact that St. Seraphim of Sarov personally adopted not only the white monastic garb but also gave his nuns a form of the Dominican Rosary speaks volumes.

Cue a post from Stashko denouncing St. Seraphim for being a crypto-Papist.
One can only hope.  ;D
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

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Re: St. Thomas Aquinas-the filioque
« Reply #23 on: February 03, 2012, 05:16:31 PM »
Quote from: Maria
Nevertheless, he was on his way to the Council of Florence to help "solve" the schism when he died.

Now I'm sad.  :'( :'(

i doubt much would have come of it either way...

Still, I can dream.  ;)

Who knows?

Perhaps he would have joined the Orthodox Church?
In fact, the Dominicans, to which St. Thomas Aquinas belonged, did send two groups of Dominican friars to the East to help "solve" the schism: one to Constantinople, and the other to Georgia. Both priories converted to Orthodoxy. The ones in Georgia were known as the white monks as they did not have the funds to buy expensive black monastic robes. St. Seraphim of Sarov adopted the white habit and the Rosary devotion from these ex-Dominicans.

Cool.  Is there a source for this?

Three of my Dominican professors at a Catholic university that I attended mentioned this defection. It is part of the Dominican history that they studied while undergoing the Dominican novitiate at St. Albert's Priory in Berkeley, California. Unfortunately, I did not have access to their novitiate texts. The fact that St. Seraphim of Sarov personally adopted not only the white monastic garb but also gave his nuns a form of the Dominican Rosary speaks volumes.

Cue a post from Stashko denouncing St. Seraphim for being a crypto-Papist.

Be careful what you wish for  ;D ;D!

Besides, when did Papist become crypto  ;D?
"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)

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Re: St. Thomas Aquinas-the filioque
« Reply #24 on: February 03, 2012, 05:23:09 PM »
Quote from: Maria
Nevertheless, he was on his way to the Council of Florence to help "solve" the schism when he died.

Now I'm sad.  :'( :'(

i doubt much would have come of it either way...

Still, I can dream.  ;)

Who knows?

Perhaps he would have joined the Orthodox Church?
In fact, the Dominicans, to which St. Thomas Aquinas belonged, did send two groups of Dominican friars to the East to help "solve" the schism: one to Constantinople, and the other to Georgia. Both priories converted to Orthodoxy. The ones in Georgia were known as the white monks as they did not have the funds to buy expensive black monastic robes. St. Seraphim of Sarov adopted the white habit and the Rosary devotion from these ex-Dominicans.

Cool.  Is there a source for this?

Three of my Dominican professors at a Catholic university that I attended mentioned this defection. It is part of the Dominican history that they studied while undergoing the Dominican novitiate at St. Albert's Priory in Berkeley, California. Unfortunately, I did not have access to their novitiate texts. The fact that St. Seraphim of Sarov personally adopted not only the white monastic garb but also gave his nuns a form of the Dominican Rosary speaks volumes.

Cue a post from Stashko denouncing St. Seraphim for being a crypto-Papist.

Be careful what you wish for  ;D ;D!

Besides, when did Papist become crypto  ;D?
Oh, I'm not. Everybody knows how I feel about pretty much everything at this point.  :D
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

Offline J Michael

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Re: St. Thomas Aquinas-the filioque
« Reply #25 on: February 03, 2012, 05:28:42 PM »
Quote from: Maria
Nevertheless, he was on his way to the Council of Florence to help "solve" the schism when he died.

Now I'm sad.  :'( :'(

i doubt much would have come of it either way...

Still, I can dream.  ;)

Who knows?

Perhaps he would have joined the Orthodox Church?
In fact, the Dominicans, to which St. Thomas Aquinas belonged, did send two groups of Dominican friars to the East to help "solve" the schism: one to Constantinople, and the other to Georgia. Both priories converted to Orthodoxy. The ones in Georgia were known as the white monks as they did not have the funds to buy expensive black monastic robes. St. Seraphim of Sarov adopted the white habit and the Rosary devotion from these ex-Dominicans.

Cool.  Is there a source for this?

Three of my Dominican professors at a Catholic university that I attended mentioned this defection. It is part of the Dominican history that they studied while undergoing the Dominican novitiate at St. Albert's Priory in Berkeley, California. Unfortunately, I did not have access to their novitiate texts. The fact that St. Seraphim of Sarov personally adopted not only the white monastic garb but also gave his nuns a form of the Dominican Rosary speaks volumes.

Cue a post from Stashko denouncing St. Seraphim for being a crypto-Papist.

Be careful what you wish for  ;D ;D!

Besides, when did Papist become crypto  ;D?
Oh, I'm not. Everybody knows how I feel about pretty much everything at this point.  :D

Phew!!  Had me worried for a nano-second  :D!
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Offline MarkosC

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Re: St. Thomas Aquinas-the filioque
« Reply #26 on: February 03, 2012, 07:12:57 PM »

Cool.  Is there a source for this?

Three of my Dominican professors at a Catholic university that I attended mentioned this defection. It is part of the Dominican history that they studied while undergoing the Dominican novitiate at St. Albert's Priory in Berkeley, California. Unfortunately, I did not have access to their novitiate texts. The fact that St. Seraphim of Sarov personally adopted not only the white monastic garb but also gave his nuns a form of the Dominican Rosary speaks volumes.

Thanks.  Doesn't really surprise me - there's a lot of vignettes like this in medieval/early modern history, especially in Eastern Europe, which are undiscovered or which are known only to a small group of historians. 
O Lord although I desired to blot out
with my tears the handwriting of my many sins
And for the rest of my life to please Thee
through sincere repentance
Yet doth the enemy lead me astray as he wareth
against my sould with his cunning

O Lord before I utterly perish do Thou save me!