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Author Topic: T.D. Jakes Embraces Doctrine of the Trinity, Moves Away from 'Oneness' View  (Read 2137 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: February 01, 2012, 12:33:20 AM »

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AURORA, Ill. (BP) -- Bishop T.D. Jakes says he has moved away from a "Oneness" view of the Godhead to embrace an orthodox definition of the Trinity -- and that some in the Oneness Pentecostal movement now consider him a heretic.
....
Jakes -- who once made the cover of Time magazine, which asked if he might be the next Billy Graham -- said he was saved in a Oneness Pentecostal church. Oneness Pentecostalism denies the Trinity and claims that instead of God being three persons, He is one person. In Oneness Pentecostalism, there is no distinction between the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit. It is also called "modalism," and it is embraced by the United Pentecostal Church International.
....
Not everything Jakes said will make Trinitarians happy. He said he considers both sides of the issue to be Christians, and that his church has affiliations with both camps. He also said "we're all saying the same thing."
....
The doctrine of the Trinity -- embraced by all three historical branches of Christianity -- holds that God is three persons, each person is distinct, each person is fully God, and that there is one God.
....
Jakes said he prefers the term "manifestations" instead of the term "persons" -- a position he has stated before.
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« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2012, 12:43:09 AM »

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Jakes said he prefers the term "manifestations" instead of the term "persons" -- a position he has stated before.

Modalism by another name.
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« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2012, 01:19:26 AM »

He has seen the true light.

He has received the Heavenly Spirit.

He has found the true faith.

He adores the undivided Trinity.

Even though he got saved in a Oneness Pentecostal church.
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« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2012, 01:25:37 AM »

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Driscoll: "Do you believe this is the perfect, inspired, final authority Word of God?" [Driscoll held up a Bible.]

Jakes: "Absolutely."

Too bad their belief in that doesn't unite them in one faith.
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« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2012, 02:35:45 AM »

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Jakes said he prefers the term "manifestations" instead of the term "persons" -- a position he has stated before.

Modalism by another name.

I thought William Brenham was the only guy to, in order to curry favor with both Modalists and Trinitarians, claim that "three manifestations" is the same thing as "three persons."  I wonder if Jakes believes in Serpent Seed theology too?
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« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2012, 02:38:46 AM »

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Driscoll: "Do you believe this is the perfect, inspired, final authority Word of God?" [Driscoll held up a Bible.]

Jakes: "Absolutely."

Too bad their belief in that doesn't unite them in one faith.
Yep.

I'd be even more impressed if they took just the New Testament and tried to come out with the Trinity doctrine.
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« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2012, 02:43:16 AM »

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Driscoll: "Do you believe this is the perfect, inspired, final authority Word of God?" [Driscoll held up a Bible.]

Jakes: "Absolutely."

Too bad their belief in that doesn't unite them in one faith.
Yep.

I'd be even more impressed if they took just the New Testament and tried to come out with the Trinity doctrine.

One of the reasons, for a time before I left Protestantism, that I was a Modalist was precisely because of the Bible. 
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« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2012, 02:48:55 AM »

Quote
Driscoll: "Do you believe this is the perfect, inspired, final authority Word of God?" [Driscoll held up a Bible.]

Jakes: "Absolutely."

Too bad their belief in that doesn't unite them in one faith.
Yep.

I'd be even more impressed if they took just the New Testament and tried to come out with the Trinity doctrine.

One of the reasons, for a time before I left Protestantism, that I was a Modalist was precisely because of the Bible. 

Please explain Christ's agony in the garden using a modalist framework. kthx.
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« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2012, 02:51:21 AM »

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Driscoll: "Do you believe this is the perfect, inspired, final authority Word of God?" [Driscoll held up a Bible.]

Jakes: "Absolutely."

Too bad their belief in that doesn't unite them in one faith.
Yep.

I'd be even more impressed if they took just the New Testament and tried to come out with the Trinity doctrine.

One of the reasons, for a time before I left Protestantism, that I was a Modalist was precisely because of the Bible. 

I mean how does one truly believe that God the Father doesn't exist while God the Son is present?
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« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2012, 03:36:27 AM »

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Driscoll: "Do you believe this is the perfect, inspired, final authority Word of God?" [Driscoll held up a Bible.]

Jakes: "Absolutely."

Too bad their belief in that doesn't unite them in one faith.
Yep.

I'd be even more impressed if they took just the New Testament and tried to come out with the Trinity doctrine.

One of the reasons, for a time before I left Protestantism, that I was a Modalist was precisely because of the Bible. 

Please explain Christ's agony in the garden using a modalist framework. kthx.

That was one thing that threw me - but I generally viewed it the same way I did the Lord's Prayer, as merely an example, not any sort of real prayer.  This was how I also viewed the temptations of Christ by Satan, as an example for us to follow.
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« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2012, 03:36:51 AM »

Quote
Driscoll: "Do you believe this is the perfect, inspired, final authority Word of God?" [Driscoll held up a Bible.]

Jakes: "Absolutely."

Too bad their belief in that doesn't unite them in one faith.
Yep.

I'd be even more impressed if they took just the New Testament and tried to come out with the Trinity doctrine.

One of the reasons, for a time before I left Protestantism, that I was a Modalist was precisely because of the Bible. 

I mean how does one truly believe that God the Father doesn't exist while God the Son is present?

Well, if you think that God the Father is God the Son, then it is quite easy.
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« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2012, 04:08:29 AM »

Quote
Driscoll: "Do you believe this is the perfect, inspired, final authority Word of God?" [Driscoll held up a Bible.]

Jakes: "Absolutely."

Too bad their belief in that doesn't unite them in one faith.
Yep.

I'd be even more impressed if they took just the New Testament and tried to come out with the Trinity doctrine.

One of the reasons, for a time before I left Protestantism, that I was a Modalist was precisely because of the Bible.  

I mean how does one truly believe that God the Father doesn't exist while God the Son is present?

Well, if you think that God the Father is God the Son, then it is quite easy.
Not in Modalistic terms though. From my understanding God the Father ceases to exist when God the Son is born then God the Son resurrects and then ceases to exist for God the Holy Spirit to be there.

Maybe I have modalism wrong here.
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« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2012, 11:21:44 AM »

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Driscoll: "Do you believe this is the perfect, inspired, final authority Word of God?" [Driscoll held up a Bible.]

Jakes: "Absolutely."

Too bad their belief in that doesn't unite them in one faith.
Yep.

I'd be even more impressed if they took just the New Testament and tried to come out with the Trinity doctrine.

One of the reasons, for a time before I left Protestantism, that I was a Modalist was precisely because of the Bible. 

Please explain Christ's agony in the garden using a modalist framework. kthx.
When God the Father took birth in human form, He intentionally relinquished His omniscience for that time. Thus, Jesus, not being omniscient, and as a inheritor of the Jewish tradition, did what Jews do, and prayed to the Father -- not knowing, of course, that He was the Father Himself in human form.

At the Resurrection, He re-acquired awareness of His true Identity.
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« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2012, 12:36:36 PM »

Quote
Driscoll: "Do you believe this is the perfect, inspired, final authority Word of God?" [Driscoll held up a Bible.]

Jakes: "Absolutely."

Too bad their belief in that doesn't unite them in one faith.
Yep.

I'd be even more impressed if they took just the New Testament and tried to come out with the Trinity doctrine.

One of the reasons, for a time before I left Protestantism, that I was a Modalist was precisely because of the Bible. 

Please explain Christ's agony in the garden using a modalist framework. kthx.
When God the Father took birth in human form, He intentionally relinquished His omniscience for that time. Thus, Jesus, not being omniscient, and as a inheritor of the Jewish tradition, did what Jews do, and prayed to the Father -- not knowing, of course, that He was the Father Himself in human form.

At the Resurrection, He re-acquired awareness of His true Identity.
Wow, how many heresies can we throw into one box?

PP
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« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2012, 12:47:28 PM »

Quote
Driscoll: "Do you believe this is the perfect, inspired, final authority Word of God?" [Driscoll held up a Bible.]

Jakes: "Absolutely."

Too bad their belief in that doesn't unite them in one faith.
Yep.

I'd be even more impressed if they took just the New Testament and tried to come out with the Trinity doctrine.

One of the reasons, for a time before I left Protestantism, that I was a Modalist was precisely because of the Bible. 

Please explain Christ's agony in the garden using a modalist framework. kthx.
When God the Father took birth in human form, He intentionally relinquished His omniscience for that time. Thus, Jesus, not being omniscient, and as a inheritor of the Jewish tradition, did what Jews do, and prayed to the Father -- not knowing, of course, that He was the Father Himself in human form.

At the Resurrection, He re-acquired awareness of His true Identity.
Wow, how many heresies can we throw into one box?

PP
Speaking hypothetically as a modalist, of course.
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« Reply #15 on: February 01, 2012, 01:21:07 PM »

Quote
Driscoll: "Do you believe this is the perfect, inspired, final authority Word of God?" [Driscoll held up a Bible.]

Jakes: "Absolutely."

Too bad their belief in that doesn't unite them in one faith.
Yep.

I'd be even more impressed if they took just the New Testament and tried to come out with the Trinity doctrine.

One of the reasons, for a time before I left Protestantism, that I was a Modalist was precisely because of the Bible. 

Please explain Christ's agony in the garden using a modalist framework. kthx.
When God the Father took birth in human form, He intentionally relinquished His omniscience for that time. Thus, Jesus, not being omniscient, and as a inheritor of the Jewish tradition, did what Jews do, and prayed to the Father -- not knowing, of course, that He was the Father Himself in human form.

At the Resurrection, He re-acquired awareness of His true Identity.
Wow, how many heresies can we throw into one box?

PP
Speaking hypothetically as a modalist, of course.
Oh yeah, I wasn't saying thats what you believed, but your explanation was excellent.

PP
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« Reply #16 on: February 01, 2012, 02:37:52 PM »

I listened to an Orthodox podcast some time ago on the Trinity. The Priest wisely prefaced it by pointing out that the Trinity was the most difficult aspect of Christianity to fully explain or understand. His reasoning was simply that we are attempting to define God, and in our limited fallen state as man it is not really possible to 'fully' comprehend Him.

I certainly enjoyed the sermon; also I did not hear any major conflicts between the Orthodox view and the definition of the Trinity (Triune) as I have received from Protestant teachings. With love and respect to our Pentecostal friends I have never felt led to find and worship God on that path, or any other modalistic Church, so my understanding of such is a bit weak.

As I consider myself in infancy spiritually speaking, may I inquire if Orthodoxy would agree to the following definition copied from the 'Articles of Faith' at the Church I currently pray, and my understanding of it?

  I. The Triune God - We believe in one eternally existent, infinite God, Sovereign of the universe; that He only is God, creative and administrative, holy in nature, attributes, and purpose; that He, as God, is Triune in essential being, revealed as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.      

 My limited understanding in brief summary is:
*Our Father is the First Person of the Godhead; Creator and Sustainer of life, completely Holy and perfect in existence.
*Jesus Christ, the Second Person of the Godhead; is eternally one with the Father, took the form of flesh and blood as our Lord, Savior, and Intercessor to The Father on our behalf.
*The Holy Spirit, the Third Person of the Godhead, eternal, is ever present in our lives, efficient in revealing man of sin, regenerating those who repent and believe, and guiding us into all Truth as it is in Jesus.

Of course the more I learn the less I know.  The interrelations between three aspects of one being can/does cause me a bit of confusion at times.


Peace & Grace,

Scott




     




 
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« Reply #17 on: February 01, 2012, 02:55:06 PM »

it scares me that such a mainstream pastor can hold such heretical viewpoints...and for the most part go unnoticed for it!
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« Reply #18 on: February 01, 2012, 05:29:47 PM »

it scares me that such a mainstream pastor can hold such heretical viewpoints...and for the most part go unnoticed for it!
A couple of reasons:

1. Most American Christians could not name you 2 heresies that were addressed by the Church (pre or post 1054). You cant defend against heresy if you cant define what it is.
**There are some who can, but Im talking about the rank and file**
2. The buffet style of spirituality really makes it a moot point. If your beliefs are wrong, simply go to another church where your beliefs are right and nobody is the wiser, and you're both still a member of the invisible body.

PP
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« Reply #19 on: February 01, 2012, 05:59:02 PM »

it scares me that such a mainstream pastor can hold such heretical viewpoints...and for the most part go unnoticed for it!
The average American Christian (from my experience) sees no major difference between saying that 1 God "manifests" in 3 different ways, and that 1 God exists as 3 "persons". They might notice the difference after you explain to them what all these words mean, though.
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« Reply #20 on: February 01, 2012, 06:01:58 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!



meh..

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #21 on: February 01, 2012, 08:18:19 PM »

it scares me that such a mainstream pastor can hold such heretical viewpoints...and for the most part go unnoticed for it!
The average American Christian (from my experience) sees no major difference between saying that 1 God "manifests" in 3 different ways, and that 1 God exists as 3 "persons". They might notice the difference after you explain to them what all these words mean, though.

well i was pretty much referring to his beliefs as they were before...
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« Reply #22 on: February 02, 2012, 11:49:18 AM »


 You cant defend against heresy if you cant define what it is.

A simple fact and one basic reason I'm on here.

When God the Father took birth in human form, He intentionally relinquished His omniscience for that time. Thus, Jesus, not being omniscient, and as a inheritor of the Jewish tradition, did what Jews do, and prayed to the Father -- not knowing, of course, that He was the Father Himself in human form.

At the Resurrection, He re-acquired awareness of His true Identity.

Perhaps I'm missing something (not surprising)...
Isn't that like claiming a belief in the Divinity of Jesus Christ but that Jesus Christ was not aware of His own Divinity?

 
Also, how does the modalist belief explain the Holy Spirit descending upon Christ at the Jorden river in addition to the voice of God Himself?
Doesn't the baptism of Jesus Christ confirm the doctrine of the trinity? Seems to me there were 3 distinct separate 'Persons' presented there;
God the Father Almighty, Jesus the Son of God, and the Holy Spirit descending from Heaven.

Is there question to my understanding of this? 

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« Reply #23 on: February 02, 2012, 01:19:48 PM »


meh..

stay blessed,
habte selassie

I'll take two 'meh' 's....
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« Reply #24 on: February 02, 2012, 04:07:59 PM »

When God the Father took birth in human form, He intentionally relinquished His omniscience for that time. Thus, Jesus, not being omniscient, and as a inheritor of the Jewish tradition, did what Jews do, and prayed to the Father -- not knowing, of course, that He was the Father Himself in human form.

At the Resurrection, He re-acquired awareness of His true Identity.

Perhaps I'm missing something (not surprising)...
Isn't that like claiming a belief in the Divinity of Jesus Christ but that Jesus Christ was not aware of His own Divinity?

 
Also, how does the modalist belief explain the Holy Spirit descending upon Christ at the Jorden river in addition to the voice of God Himself?
Doesn't the baptism of Jesus Christ confirm the doctrine of the trinity? Seems to me there were 3 distinct separate 'Persons' presented there;
God the Father Almighty, Jesus the Son of God, and the Holy Spirit descending from Heaven.

Is there question to my understanding of this? 


Right, God the Father voluntarily relinquished His omniscience, so that Christ would not know that Christ is the Father, until after the Resurrection or maybe even not until after the Ascension.

The Holy Spirit descended "like a dove" upon Christ, true. That's because before the Father become Christ, the Father briefly became the Holy Spirit (thus explaining how the Holy Spirit was responsible for the conception in Mary's womb). At the time of Christ's birth, a portion of the Holy Spirit remained separate -- until it entered Christ at Christ's baptism, at which time the Holy Spirit ceased existing independently for the time being.

The voice was  symbolic of Christ's understanding of who He was at the time: the very favored Son of the Father (but not yet believing that Christ was in fact the Father).
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« Reply #25 on: February 02, 2012, 04:11:45 PM »

Quote
Right, God the Father voluntarily relinquished His omniscience, so that Christ would not know that Christ is the Father, until after the Resurrection or maybe even not until after the Ascension.

The Holy Spirit descended "like a dove" upon Christ, true. That's because before the Father become Christ, the Father briefly became the Holy Spirit (thus explaining how the Holy Spirit was responsible for the conception in Mary's womb). At the time of Christ's birth, a portion of the Holy Spirit remained separate -- until it entered Christ at Christ's baptism, at which time the Holy Spirit ceased existing independently for the time being.

The voice was  symbolic of Christ's understanding of who He was at the time: the very favored Son of the Father (but not yet believing that Christ was in fact the Father).
That is quite possibly, the silliest thing I have ever read. How on God's Green Earth people can glean this and be sola scriptura is beyond me.....

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« Reply #26 on: February 02, 2012, 11:07:07 PM »


 You cant defend against heresy if you cant define what it is.

A simple fact and one basic reason I'm on here.

When God the Father took birth in human form, He intentionally relinquished His omniscience for that time. Thus, Jesus, not being omniscient, and as a inheritor of the Jewish tradition, did what Jews do, and prayed to the Father -- not knowing, of course, that He was the Father Himself in human form.

At the Resurrection, He re-acquired awareness of His true Identity.

Perhaps I'm missing something (not surprising)...
Isn't that like claiming a belief in the Divinity of Jesus Christ but that Jesus Christ was not aware of His own Divinity?

 
Also, how does the modalist belief explain the Holy Spirit descending upon Christ at the Jorden river in addition to the voice of God Himself?
Doesn't the baptism of Jesus Christ confirm the doctrine of the trinity? Seems to me there were 3 distinct separate 'Persons' presented there;
God the Father Almighty, Jesus the Son of God, and the Holy Spirit descending from Heaven.

Is there question to my understanding of this? 


Don't let jetavan play with your head. I think he's trying to present to us the modalist system of thought as he understands it. You could say he's engaging in a type of "know your enemy" exercise. As I read your musings on the Trinity, your beliefs are actually quite close to Orthodox.
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« Reply #27 on: February 02, 2012, 11:17:26 PM »

I think a Modalist would be forced to describe Christ in Nestorianizing tendencies.  This is perhaps the best way to explain all these verses of Christ and the dove and the voice from the Father "This is my beloved Son."

Other explanations was that it was all for show, so that we can attain the same words.  In other words, He did these as examples for us, so that God may also say of us, "This is my beloved Son" and that we can say "Our Father."
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« Reply #28 on: February 03, 2012, 04:16:49 PM »

When God the Father took birth in human form, He intentionally relinquished His omniscience for that time. Thus, Jesus, not being omniscient, and as a inheritor of the Jewish tradition, did what Jews do, and prayed to the Father -- not knowing, of course, that He was the Father Himself in human form.

At the Resurrection, He re-acquired awareness of His true Identity.

Perhaps I'm missing something (not surprising)...
Isn't that like claiming a belief in the Divinity of Jesus Christ but that Jesus Christ was not aware of His own Divinity?

 
Also, how does the modalist belief explain the Holy Spirit descending upon Christ at the Jorden river in addition to the voice of God Himself?
Doesn't the baptism of Jesus Christ confirm the doctrine of the trinity? Seems to me there were 3 distinct separate 'Persons' presented there;
God the Father Almighty, Jesus the Son of God, and the Holy Spirit descending from Heaven.

Is there question to my understanding of this?  


Right, God the Father voluntarily relinquished His omniscience, so that Christ would not know that Christ is the Father, until after the Resurrection or maybe even not until after the Ascension.

The Holy Spirit descended "like a dove" upon Christ, true. That's because before the Father become Christ, the Father briefly became the Holy Spirit (thus explaining how the Holy Spirit was responsible for the conception in Mary's womb). At the time of Christ's birth, a portion of the Holy Spirit remained separate -- until it entered Christ at Christ's baptism, at which time the Holy Spirit ceased existing independently for the time being.

The voice was  symbolic of Christ's understanding of who He was at the time: the very favored Son of the Father (but not yet believing that Christ was in fact the Father).

O.K. I appreciate your answering.
 
At this point let me simply thank you for your reply and wish you God's Peace, Grace, and Understanding.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2012, 04:31:30 PM by alanscott » Logged

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« Reply #29 on: February 03, 2012, 04:19:01 PM »

When God the Father took birth in human form, He intentionally relinquished His omniscience for that time. Thus, Jesus, not being omniscient, and as a inheritor of the Jewish tradition, did what Jews do, and prayed to the Father -- not knowing, of course, that He was the Father Himself in human form.

At the Resurrection, He re-acquired awareness of His true Identity.

Perhaps I'm missing something (not surprising)...
Isn't that like claiming a belief in the Divinity of Jesus Christ but that Jesus Christ was not aware of His own Divinity?

 
Also, how does the modalist belief explain the Holy Spirit descending upon Christ at the Jorden river in addition to the voice of God Himself?
Doesn't the baptism of Jesus Christ confirm the doctrine of the trinity? Seems to me there were 3 distinct separate 'Persons' presented there;
God the Father Almighty, Jesus the Son of God, and the Holy Spirit descending from Heaven.

Is there question to my understanding of this?  


Right, God the Father voluntarily relinquished His omniscience, so that Christ would not know that Christ is the Father, until after the Resurrection or maybe even not until after the Ascension.

The Holy Spirit descended "like a dove" upon Christ, true. That's because before the Father become Christ, the Father briefly became the Holy Spirit (thus explaining how the Holy Spirit was responsible for the conception in Mary's womb). At the time of Christ's birth, a portion of the Holy Spirit remained separate -- until it entered Christ at Christ's baptism, at which time the Holy Spirit ceased existing independently for the time being.

The voice was  symbolic of Christ's understanding of who He was at the time: the very favored Son of the Father (but not yet believing that Christ was in fact the Father).
Starting off your reply with the word ‘right’ would indicate that my statement was in agreement with your point of view. If that is the case I am sorry that my words were misunderstood.
At this point let me simply thank you for your reply and wish you God’s Peace, Grace, and Understanding.

I was giving you a possible modalist response. To paraphrase Christine O'Donnell, "I'm not a modalist."
« Last Edit: February 03, 2012, 04:19:30 PM by Jetavan » Logged

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« Reply #30 on: February 03, 2012, 04:56:30 PM »

When God the Father took birth in human form, He intentionally relinquished His omniscience for that time. Thus, Jesus, not being omniscient, and as a inheritor of the Jewish tradition, did what Jews do, and prayed to the Father -- not knowing, of course, that He was the Father Himself in human form.

At the Resurrection, He re-acquired awareness of His true Identity.

Perhaps I'm missing something (not surprising)...
Isn't that like claiming a belief in the Divinity of Jesus Christ but that Jesus Christ was not aware of His own Divinity?

 
Also, how does the modalist belief explain the Holy Spirit descending upon Christ at the Jorden river in addition to the voice of God Himself?
Doesn't the baptism of Jesus Christ confirm the doctrine of the trinity? Seems to me there were 3 distinct separate 'Persons' presented there;
God the Father Almighty, Jesus the Son of God, and the Holy Spirit descending from Heaven.

Is there question to my understanding of this?  


Right, God the Father voluntarily relinquished His omniscience, so that Christ would not know that Christ is the Father, until after the Resurrection or maybe even not until after the Ascension.

The Holy Spirit descended "like a dove" upon Christ, true. That's because before the Father become Christ, the Father briefly became the Holy Spirit (thus explaining how the Holy Spirit was responsible for the conception in Mary's womb). At the time of Christ's birth, a portion of the Holy Spirit remained separate -- until it entered Christ at Christ's baptism, at which time the Holy Spirit ceased existing independently for the time being.

The voice was  symbolic of Christ's understanding of who He was at the time: the very favored Son of the Father (but not yet believing that Christ was in fact the Father).
Starting off your reply with the word ‘right’ would indicate that my statement was in agreement with your point of view. If that is the case I am sorry that my words were misunderstood.
At this point let me simply thank you for your reply and wish you God’s Peace, Grace, and Understanding.

I was giving you a possible modalist response. To paraphrase Christine O'Donnell, "I'm not a modalist."
LOL Forgive me! I totally misunderstood. On the bright side it is an indicator that your very good at that sort of thing!  Smiley
I truly thank you for the reply. It is well beyond my understanding of how that could be seen, considered, or felt as Truth. To each their own I guess.
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« Reply #31 on: February 03, 2012, 05:03:51 PM »


 


Don't let jetavan play with your head. I think he's trying to present to us the modalist system of thought as he understands it. You could say he's engaging in a type of "know your enemy" exercise. As I read your musings on the Trinity, your beliefs are actually quite close to Orthodox.

Yea, he is VERY good at that! I just apologized as I did in fact misunderstand him to be a modalist. Oops!

Thanks for clarifying my interpretation of the Trinity as well.

Peace & Grace,

Scott
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There are heathens that live with more virtue than I. The devil himself believes Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Neither of these things truly makes me Christian.
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