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Author Topic: Very controversial, Orthodox Freemasons  (Read 12257 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #45 on: February 01, 2012, 05:33:43 PM »

I have definitive proof that Yeshuaisiam is a masonic spy. If you will just look at these grainy photographs and lodge membership lists (which you have no way to verify), I think you will find it to be incontrovertible evidence for my claim.

Also, the Pope worships Satan (why else would you think he has an upside-down cross on his chair?).
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« Reply #46 on: February 02, 2012, 01:42:42 AM »

I would take anything from a website which blasts the Boyscouts as being "masonic" with a grain of salt, and perhaps a bottle or five of absinthe.

Dude, that will kill you, bro.  Kill you dead.



As for the OP, I'm not sure masonry is something Orthodox folks should get into.  My Priest is very opposed to it.  That's enough for me. 

The funny thing is, the Boy Scouts were founded in Masonry, and their ceremonies mimic masonic ceremonies and the "prayers" are to "universal gods", but this is besides the point.
What "ceremonies" would those be?  The BSA doesn't have set ceremonies for anything.  Prayers are not to "universal gods," but rather are worded in such a way so that each boy (or girl, for Ventures) is able to conceptualize it to their own particular mode of belief.  Scouting is a multi-faith movement that only requires of its members (at least in America) that one believes in some form of higher power.

Blue and Gold ceremony for instance & Osiris worship (google it).   Yes, I agree with you, and stand corrected to the way I erroneously phrased it.  The prayers are worded in a way to so that the child can perceive it in their own belief. 

As in Masonry on lower levels (like common lodges) they do the same thing.

Of course I'm not calling all the boy scouts evil & wicked, nor is it really the point of the thread, I'm just saying that the link provided (which I don't entirely agree with, but has very interesting and controversial information) that the author was "bashed" because of his claims on the boy scouts being masonic.  I just don't think it would be absolutely fair to discredit all his points based on his Boy Scout information as it definitely has some validity.
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« Reply #47 on: February 02, 2012, 01:42:42 AM »

OP doesn't know anything about freemasonry.

I don't think that's fair NicholasMyra.  You don't know me personally.  I've studied Masonry for quite some time now.  I've read Morals and Dogma, interviewed Masons, given speeches on Masonry to Christians, argued with Masons in person & online, and also had a nice LONG talk with the founder of the freemasonrywatch.org web site.

If you would like I could give you some information, links, videos, and/or mail you informational packets on Freemasonry.
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« Reply #48 on: February 02, 2012, 01:42:42 AM »

My family is in the line. I think we are doomed, I say!



Guys, I'm not in entire agreement with the OP link, I just think it has some interested "facts" which I was hoping people could expand on if they had any information.

BTW, the Obelisk (Washington  Monument) is an Egyptian Phallic Symbol.   

(This other info on the Washington Monument that comes from MANY web sites, and not from me as I have never measured it)
Its base walls are 55.5 feet wide which is 666 inches.
Its 555 feet high, with 111 feet under ground for support.  (Total 666 feet)
Its 6660 inches tall (above ground).

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« Reply #49 on: February 02, 2012, 01:42:42 AM »

OP doesn't know anything about freemasonry.

Or the Boyscouts.

So, according to the OP, we are to believe that the Bishops,priests, lay advisors, parents and scouts who are dedicated to the Eastern Orthodox Committee on Scouting are actually minions of Lucifer? http://eocs.org/  Back to that bridge in Brooklyn folks.....

The reptillian thing is a better cover, don't you think?

NO!!!!

According to the link provided in the ORIGINAL POST, you are to believe the statement you made.

I don't entirely support it, but was hoping people could expand.   Some of the information is very factual, other information I have not heard about.
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« Reply #50 on: February 02, 2012, 01:42:42 AM »

I have definitive proof that Yeshuaisiam is a masonic spy. If you will just look at these grainy photographs and lodge membership lists (which you have no way to verify), I think you will find it to be incontrovertible evidence for my claim.

Also, the Pope worships Satan (why else would you think he has an upside-down cross on his chair?).

I'm curious how me posting a link and never fully supporting his claim turned into a bash session.

BTW, I don't know if you were being sarcastic, but the upside down cross is from Peter's crucifixion and the vicar stuff....
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« Reply #51 on: February 02, 2012, 01:42:42 AM »

OP doesn't know anything about freemasonry.

Or the Boyscouts.

Or the double-headed eagle.

Forgive me if you are correct.

Again, I don't condone everything in the link.  I think there are interesting facts.  I was hoping for expansion, insight, and if anybody had more information.   

I know that many members in Orthodoxy believe that Masonry is Satanic/Luciferian, that Synods and many Bishops have condemned it.  I've also known clergy (several Deacons and 2 priests) who were Masons.  It was the "lower" town type of Mason though. 

This does not invalidate Orthodoxy at all, but if these Bishops/Patriarchs/Clergy are involved in Masonry, I believe it to at least be a huge conflict of interest.  But I don't know if they absolutely are.  The original post has a link that presented some information, and I am curious if anybody else has more information or could expand on the info presented.   Which would work both ways - in support or against.  Not looking for personal bashing of the author of the site, as that does not exactly expand on the info or invalidate the points presented.

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« Reply #52 on: February 11, 2012, 05:03:28 PM »

Hello!

As can be read to the left, I have been an Orthodox inquirer for about a year. I am also a Freemason and in fact, am the master of my lodge this year. I do intend to disclose my membership to my priest, and if he should say that I must demit in order to join the church, I would obey.

However, whenever these discussions come up, I find that they are often based on a bunch of hooey. In my experience, Masonry (at least in the United States) is a fraternal service organization. Far from being deist, it is overly biblical and in fact, Christian. Some facts of note:

* the three Masonic degrees are based on the building of King Solomon's temple
* each of the degrees features readings from the Bible. For example, Psalm 133.
* upon initiation, a new Mason is taught that the Holy Bible is a great light and is told "The Holy Bible is dedicated to the service of God, for it is the inestimable gift of God to man, and the rule and guide to His faith and practice"
* a Holy Bible is placed open upon the table in the middle of the lodge room. The meeting cannot take place if the Bible is not open upon the table.
* every lodge meeting is opened with a prayer that says "you have promised that when three or more are gathered in your name, you will be among them". These are Christ's words.
* every lodge is dedicated to St. John the Apostle and St. John the Forerunner. In fact, the Masonic year begins on December 27, the day of St. John the Apostle.

These are just off the top of my head, but I find the fraternity to be quite Christian.

Now, a word on secrecy. The secrets of Masonry are basically "the secret handshake". Otherwise, things are open. My lodge is a registered non-for-profit corporation, for crying out loud, so of course we would need to open the books for an audit.

I recently explained the "secrecy" to a new applicant. He was worried about what he could ask or what I could tell him. I explained to him, "It is the same as if I were to ask you about the business you run. You would probably tell me about what you do, who works there, how long you have been in business, and that sort of thing. In fact, you would probably tell me pretty much everything I asked. But, I bet you wouldn't let me peek at your bank records or attend a meeting of your board of directors."

Secrecy, by itself, is not bad. Accountants maintain the confidentiality of their client's finances. Husbands and wives do not discuss their marital relations with others. Most people do not discuss their salaries at parties.

In my opinion, if someone is to have an opinion, that person has a duty to make it an informed one. I will answer any question that anyone might have about Freemasonry, if anyone should care to ask.
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« Reply #53 on: February 11, 2012, 05:18:47 PM »

OP doesn't know anything about freemasonry.

Or the Boyscouts.

Or the double-headed eagle.

Forgive me if you are correct.

Again, I don't condone everything in the link.  I think there are interesting facts.  I was hoping for expansion, insight, and if anybody had more information.   

I know that many members in Orthodoxy believe that Masonry is Satanic/Luciferian, that Synods and many Bishops have condemned it.  I've also known clergy (several Deacons and 2 priests) who were Masons.  It was the "lower" town type of Mason though. 

This does not invalidate Orthodoxy at all, but if these Bishops/Patriarchs/Clergy are involved in Masonry, I believe it to at least be a huge conflict of interest.  But I don't know if they absolutely are.  The original post has a link that presented some information, and I am curious if anybody else has more information or could expand on the info presented.   Which would work both ways - in support or against.  Not looking for personal bashing of the author of the site, as that does not exactly expand on the info or invalidate the points presented.



what is the "lower town type" of masonry mean?  There is the York Rite and the Scottish Rite in the USA. 
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« Reply #54 on: February 11, 2012, 05:32:42 PM »

I don't think the masons are anymore mysterious than the knights of columbus.  It is just that writing books on freemasonry lately is more profitable.  the funny thing is all the speculation online, offline, on tv, in a book, in the news, on a tv programme with someone wearing sunglasses reporting to know that in the 33rd degree you actually have to sacrifice a hamster.. is just speculation.

I remember when I was the highest degree in a particular Roman Catholic fraternity and every year the bishop would send a letter for the chaplain to read at the meetings would basically state that anyone that was a member of the masons or not Roman Catholic could not be a member of this organization.

I don't understand though because the bishop went on the state that the Roman Catholic organizations were acceptable because they weren't secret societies.

However, I was sworn to secrecy about each degree ritual I went through in two different Roman Catholic fraternal organizations over the years.  Secret rituals, secret lessons, secret passwords to get into the meetings, secret handshakes. 

It's fun really, and I don't care what anyone says.  Unless you've been through degree rituals you wouldn't understand.  No one gets hurt.  No one pledges allegiance to Egyptian Goddesses. 
I'd say University and it's brash atheism is much more dangerous to your soul than getting together with a bunch of your friends and raising money for the poor.

No I'm not a mason nor am I or am I able to be a member of the Roman Catholic fraternal organizations since I haven't been Greek Catholic for many years now.  But I'm just saying the one local priest here was a Freemason, and a visit to many Orthodox cemeteries will find the Freemason compass on many a gravestone.  Remember Orthodox cemeteries are not in the business of burying non-Orthodox.
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« Reply #55 on: February 11, 2012, 05:36:53 PM »

Hello!

As can be read to the left, I have been an Orthodox inquirer for about a year. I am also a Freemason and in fact, am the master of my lodge this year. I do intend to disclose my membership to my priest, and if he should say that I must demit in order to join the church, I would obey.

However, whenever these discussions come up, I find that they are often based on a bunch of hooey. In my experience, Masonry (at least in the United States) is a fraternal service organization. Far from being deist, it is overly biblical and in fact, Christian. Some facts of note:

* the three Masonic degrees are based on the building of King Solomon's temple
* each of the degrees features readings from the Bible. For example, Psalm 133.
* upon initiation, a new Mason is taught that the Holy Bible is a great light and is told "The Holy Bible is dedicated to the service of God, for it is the inestimable gift of God to man, and the rule and guide to His faith and practice"
* a Holy Bible is placed open upon the table in the middle of the lodge room. The meeting cannot take place if the Bible is not open upon the table.
* every lodge meeting is opened with a prayer that says "you have promised that when three or more are gathered in your name, you will be among them". These are Christ's words.
* every lodge is dedicated to St. John the Apostle and St. John the Forerunner. In fact, the Masonic year begins on December 27, the day of St. John the Apostle.

These are just off the top of my head, but I find the fraternity to be quite Christian.

Now, a word on secrecy. The secrets of Masonry are basically "the secret handshake". Otherwise, things are open. My lodge is a registered non-for-profit corporation, for crying out loud, so of course we would need to open the books for an audit.

I recently explained the "secrecy" to a new applicant. He was worried about what he could ask or what I could tell him. I explained to him, "It is the same as if I were to ask you about the business you run. You would probably tell me about what you do, who works there, how long you have been in business, and that sort of thing. In fact, you would probably tell me pretty much everything I asked. But, I bet you wouldn't let me peek at your bank records or attend a meeting of your board of directors."

Secrecy, by itself, is not bad. Accountants maintain the confidentiality of their client's finances. Husbands and wives do not discuss their marital relations with others. Most people do not discuss their salaries at parties.

In my opinion, if someone is to have an opinion, that person has a duty to make it an informed one. I will answer any question that anyone might have about Freemasonry, if anyone should care to ask.

That's just thing thing, I'm not a mason and I would bet you a fistful of cadbury eggs that there is no secret agenda, no one has to sacrifice a guinea pig to isis while wearing a wig.. etc.. there is no masonic conspiracy to over-take the world. 
Actually the state in which I live, the masons donate close to a million dollars a day to children's hospitals, and a past-master told me that and I've known him for years.  He has no reason to lie to me, he's a nice guy and he's known my family since Moses wore short pants.
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« Reply #56 on: February 11, 2012, 06:18:12 PM »

I would take anything from a website which blasts the Boyscouts as being "masonic" with a grain of salt, and perhaps a bottle or five of absinthe.

Dude, that will kill you, bro.  Kill you dead.



As for the OP, I'm not sure masonry is something Orthodox folks should get into.  My Priest is very opposed to it.  That's enough for me. 

The funny thing is, the Boy Scouts were founded in Masonry, and their ceremonies mimic masonic ceremonies and the "prayers" are to "universal gods", but this is besides the point.

No, no, and no.  Get your facts straight.
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« Reply #57 on: February 11, 2012, 06:26:59 PM »

Archbishop Seraphim is pictured with the Lions Club, which is absolutely not masonic.
Don't tell that to a fellow who believes even the Boy Scouts are masonic. Roll Eyes

"Regarding the organizations linked to Freemasonry, here’s one that is usually a surprise to many, the Scouting
Movement. Lord Baden-Powell, the founder was a Mason. The following quote comes from Kitchen, Yvonne.
Freemasonry Death In The Family. Fruitful Vine, PO Box 1112, Mountain Gate, Victoria 3156, Australia. 1997.
ISBN 0-646-34807-8. Page 156 “Even the Scouts and Girl Guides have their roots in Lord Baden-Powell’s
Freemasonry. He was a well-known Mason in the Lodge of the Grand Orient.”

www.ctmin.org/pdf/scouting.pdf
http://www.gl-mi.org/scouting-masons.htm
http://www.ctyankee.org/

I would not attack his rationale in oder to thrash his character to discredit everything he has posted.   People do make mistakes, but that doesn't make everything they say wrong.  I don't agree with 100% of what anybody says, but it doesn't make them completely wrong on every subject.  I happen to believe the Boy Scouts DO have Masonic roots and Masonic based ceremonies.   There is logical evidence that supports this.

Lord Baden-Powell was not a Mason.  The sites you link to are simply lying.  You say you believe Boy Scouts have Masonic ceremonies.  I ask why is that?  Have you been a Boy Scout?  Have you attened any of their ceremonies?  If not what do you base your beliefs on? 

That said Masonic Lodges may sponsor packs and troops, but so may Mormons, Buddhists, and  Muslims.  Scouting is a program of citizenship and outdoorsmanship.  Scouts are urged to be true to the dictates of their own faith while respecting the right of others to do the same.
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« Reply #58 on: February 11, 2012, 06:30:21 PM »

Again, considering the Boy Scouts (at least in America) do not have codified ceremonies for anything, and leave the actual processes of doing things like bestowing awards, ranks, honors, and leadership positions strictly to the discretion and design of individual units, councils, etc., there is absolutely zero credibility to the notion that Scouting has any kind of "Masonic ritual" or associated aspect therein.  It simply does not exist.
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« Reply #59 on: February 11, 2012, 06:37:37 PM »

Archbishop Seraphim is pictured with the Lions Club, which is absolutely not masonic.
Don't tell that to a fellow who believes even the Boy Scouts are masonic. Roll Eyes

"Regarding the organizations linked to Freemasonry, here’s one that is usually a surprise to many, the Scouting
Movement. Lord Baden-Powell, the founder was a Mason. The following quote comes from Kitchen, Yvonne.
Freemasonry Death In The Family. Fruitful Vine, PO Box 1112, Mountain Gate, Victoria 3156, Australia. 1997.
ISBN 0-646-34807-8. Page 156 “Even the Scouts and Girl Guides have their roots in Lord Baden-Powell’s
Freemasonry. He was a well-known Mason in the Lodge of the Grand Orient.”

www.ctmin.org/pdf/scouting.pdf
http://www.gl-mi.org/scouting-masons.htm
http://www.ctyankee.org/

I would not attack his rationale in oder to thrash his character to discredit everything he has posted.   People do make mistakes, but that doesn't make everything they say wrong.  I don't agree with 100% of what anybody says, but it doesn't make them completely wrong on every subject.  I happen to believe the Boy Scouts DO have Masonic roots and Masonic based ceremonies.   There is logical evidence that supports this.

Lord Baden-Powell was not a Mason.  The sites you link to are simply lying.  You say you believe Boy Scouts have Masonic ceremonies.  I ask why is that?  Have you been a Boy Scout?  Have you attened any of their ceremonies?  If not what do you base your beliefs on? 

That said Masonic Lodges may sponsor packs and troops, but so may Mormons, Buddhists, and  Muslims.  Scouting is a program of citizenship and outdoorsmanship.  Scouts are urged to be true to the dictates of their own faith while respecting the right of others to do the same.

Not saying scouts are masons, but masons are urged to be true to the dictates of their own faith while respecting the right of others to do the same....
Again, one of the things people get all conspiracy theory-ized about... scouts are scouts, masons are masons and snow is snow. 
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« Reply #60 on: February 11, 2012, 06:57:21 PM »

Archbishop Seraphim is pictured with the Lions Club, which is absolutely not masonic.
Don't tell that to a fellow who believes even the Boy Scouts are masonic. Roll Eyes

"Regarding the organizations linked to Freemasonry, here’s one that is usually a surprise to many, the Scouting
Movement. Lord Baden-Powell, the founder was a Mason. The following quote comes from Kitchen, Yvonne.
Freemasonry Death In The Family. Fruitful Vine, PO Box 1112, Mountain Gate, Victoria 3156, Australia. 1997.
ISBN 0-646-34807-8. Page 156 “Even the Scouts and Girl Guides have their roots in Lord Baden-Powell’s
Freemasonry. He was a well-known Mason in the Lodge of the Grand Orient.”

www.ctmin.org/pdf/scouting.pdf
http://www.gl-mi.org/scouting-masons.htm
http://www.ctyankee.org/

I would not attack his rationale in oder to thrash his character to discredit everything he has posted.   People do make mistakes, but that doesn't make everything they say wrong.  I don't agree with 100% of what anybody says, but it doesn't make them completely wrong on every subject.  I happen to believe the Boy Scouts DO have Masonic roots and Masonic based ceremonies.   There is logical evidence that supports this.

Lord Baden-Powell was not a Mason.  The sites you link to are simply lying.  You say you believe Boy Scouts have Masonic ceremonies.  I ask why is that?  Have you been a Boy Scout?  Have you attened any of their ceremonies?  If not what do you base your beliefs on? 

That said Masonic Lodges may sponsor packs and troops, but so may Mormons, Buddhists, and  Muslims.  Scouting is a program of citizenship and outdoorsmanship.  Scouts are urged to be true to the dictates of their own faith while respecting the right of others to do the same.

Not saying scouts are masons, but masons are urged to be true to the dictates of their own faith while respecting the right of others to do the same....
Again, one of the things people get all conspiracy theory-ized about... scouts are scouts, masons are masons and snow is snow. 

But Mason take oaths that place Masonry above all else.  Cut throats and all that for revealing the secret handshake and whatnot.  I know your average local Mason doesn't take it seriously but still...
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« Reply #61 on: February 11, 2012, 08:54:16 PM »

Archbishop Seraphim is pictured with the Lions Club, which is absolutely not masonic.
Don't tell that to a fellow who believes even the Boy Scouts are masonic. Roll Eyes

"Regarding the organizations linked to Freemasonry, here’s one that is usually a surprise to many, the Scouting
Movement. Lord Baden-Powell, the founder was a Mason. The following quote comes from Kitchen, Yvonne.
Freemasonry Death In The Family. Fruitful Vine, PO Box 1112, Mountain Gate, Victoria 3156, Australia. 1997.
ISBN 0-646-34807-8. Page 156 “Even the Scouts and Girl Guides have their roots in Lord Baden-Powell’s
Freemasonry. He was a well-known Mason in the Lodge of the Grand Orient.”

www.ctmin.org/pdf/scouting.pdf
http://www.gl-mi.org/scouting-masons.htm
http://www.ctyankee.org/

I would not attack his rationale in oder to thrash his character to discredit everything he has posted.   People do make mistakes, but that doesn't make everything they say wrong.  I don't agree with 100% of what anybody says, but it doesn't make them completely wrong on every subject.  I happen to believe the Boy Scouts DO have Masonic roots and Masonic based ceremonies.   There is logical evidence that supports this.

Lord Baden-Powell was not a Mason.  The sites you link to are simply lying.  You say you believe Boy Scouts have Masonic ceremonies.  I ask why is that?  Have you been a Boy Scout?  Have you attened any of their ceremonies?  If not what do you base your beliefs on? 

That said Masonic Lodges may sponsor packs and troops, but so may Mormons, Buddhists, and  Muslims.  Scouting is a program of citizenship and outdoorsmanship.  Scouts are urged to be true to the dictates of their own faith while respecting the right of others to do the same.

Not saying scouts are masons, but masons are urged to be true to the dictates of their own faith while respecting the right of others to do the same....
Again, one of the things people get all conspiracy theory-ized about... scouts are scouts, masons are masons and snow is snow. 

But Mason take oaths that place Masonry above all else.  Cut throats and all that for revealing the secret handshake and whatnot.  I know your average local Mason doesn't take it seriously but still...

Forgive me, but this is not accurate. It is specifically instructed that the obligations are not to conflict with one's "civil, moral, or religious duties or privileges".

It is true that the obligations have the stated penalties of having one's throat cut and the like. When I was a child, I think I also said, "cross my heart and hope to die, stick a needle in my eye".
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« Reply #62 on: February 11, 2012, 10:06:14 PM »


Being a "member" of Christ's True Church should be enough for anyone. 



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« Reply #63 on: February 11, 2012, 10:15:11 PM »


Being a "member" of Christ's True Church should be enough for anyone. 



Then don't join the local PTA, don't vote for a candidate for Mayor, don't work at a company, have no friends outside the Church, don't subscribe to magazines, and certainly don't register with a political party.
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« Reply #64 on: February 11, 2012, 10:20:09 PM »


Being a "member" of Christ's True Church should be enough for anyone. 


Aren't you a member of this forum?
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« Reply #65 on: February 11, 2012, 10:48:16 PM »

I would take anything from a website which blasts the Boyscouts as being "masonic" with a grain of salt, and perhaps a bottle or five of absinthe.

Dude, that will kill you, bro.  Kill you dead.



As for the OP, I'm not sure masonry is something Orthodox folks should get into.  My Priest is very opposed to it.  That's enough for me. 

The funny thing is, the Boy Scouts were founded in Masonry, and their ceremonies mimic masonic ceremonies and the "prayers" are to "universal gods", but this is besides the point.

No, no, and no.  Get your facts straight.

The problem with just saying no and telling somebody to get their facts straight doesn't prove a point.  I quoted stuff from the boy scouts saying they were originated in masons.  However, this is BESIDES the point.  It is about Orthodox or rather "high ranking" orthodox involved in Masonry.
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« Reply #66 on: February 11, 2012, 10:49:41 PM »

Archbishop Seraphim is pictured with the Lions Club, which is absolutely not masonic.
Don't tell that to a fellow who believes even the Boy Scouts are masonic. Roll Eyes

"Regarding the organizations linked to Freemasonry, here’s one that is usually a surprise to many, the Scouting
Movement. Lord Baden-Powell, the founder was a Mason. The following quote comes from Kitchen, Yvonne.
Freemasonry Death In The Family. Fruitful Vine, PO Box 1112, Mountain Gate, Victoria 3156, Australia. 1997.
ISBN 0-646-34807-8. Page 156 “Even the Scouts and Girl Guides have their roots in Lord Baden-Powell’s
Freemasonry. He was a well-known Mason in the Lodge of the Grand Orient.”

www.ctmin.org/pdf/scouting.pdf
http://www.gl-mi.org/scouting-masons.htm
http://www.ctyankee.org/

I would not attack his rationale in oder to thrash his character to discredit everything he has posted.   People do make mistakes, but that doesn't make everything they say wrong.  I don't agree with 100% of what anybody says, but it doesn't make them completely wrong on every subject.  I happen to believe the Boy Scouts DO have Masonic roots and Masonic based ceremonies.   There is logical evidence that supports this.

Lord Baden-Powell was not a Mason.  The sites you link to are simply lying.  You say you believe Boy Scouts have Masonic ceremonies.  I ask why is that?  Have you been a Boy Scout?  Have you attened any of their ceremonies?  If not what do you base your beliefs on? 

That said Masonic Lodges may sponsor packs and troops, but so may Mormons, Buddhists, and  Muslims.  Scouting is a program of citizenship and outdoorsmanship.  Scouts are urged to be true to the dictates of their own faith while respecting the right of others to do the same.

Not saying scouts are masons, but masons are urged to be true to the dictates of their own faith while respecting the right of others to do the same....
Again, one of the things people get all conspiracy theory-ized about... scouts are scouts, masons are masons and snow is snow. 

But Mason take oaths that place Masonry above all else.  Cut throats and all that for revealing the secret handshake and whatnot.  I know your average local Mason doesn't take it seriously but still...

Forgive me, but this is not accurate. It is specifically instructed that the obligations are not to conflict with one's "civil, moral, or religious duties or privileges".

It is true that the obligations have the stated penalties of having one's throat cut and the like. When I was a child, I think I also said, "cross my heart and hope to die, stick a needle in my eye".


Taking any oath (and Masons SWEAR blood oaths) is against the scriptures.   The masonic oaths are above all other oaths.
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« Reply #67 on: February 11, 2012, 10:54:28 PM »

Archbishop Seraphim is pictured with the Lions Club, which is absolutely not masonic.
Don't tell that to a fellow who believes even the Boy Scouts are masonic. Roll Eyes

"Regarding the organizations linked to Freemasonry, here’s one that is usually a surprise to many, the Scouting
Movement. Lord Baden-Powell, the founder was a Mason. The following quote comes from Kitchen, Yvonne.
Freemasonry Death In The Family. Fruitful Vine, PO Box 1112, Mountain Gate, Victoria 3156, Australia. 1997.
ISBN 0-646-34807-8. Page 156 “Even the Scouts and Girl Guides have their roots in Lord Baden-Powell’s
Freemasonry. He was a well-known Mason in the Lodge of the Grand Orient.”

www.ctmin.org/pdf/scouting.pdf
http://www.gl-mi.org/scouting-masons.htm
http://www.ctyankee.org/

I would not attack his rationale in oder to thrash his character to discredit everything he has posted.   People do make mistakes, but that doesn't make everything they say wrong.  I don't agree with 100% of what anybody says, but it doesn't make them completely wrong on every subject.  I happen to believe the Boy Scouts DO have Masonic roots and Masonic based ceremonies.   There is logical evidence that supports this.

Lord Baden-Powell was not a Mason.  The sites you link to are simply lying.  You say you believe Boy Scouts have Masonic ceremonies.  I ask why is that?  Have you been a Boy Scout?  Have you attened any of their ceremonies?  If not what do you base your beliefs on?  

That said Masonic Lodges may sponsor packs and troops, but so may Mormons, Buddhists, and  Muslims.  Scouting is a program of citizenship and outdoorsmanship.  Scouts are urged to be true to the dictates of their own faith while respecting the right of others to do the same.

Deacon Lance, my brother, just read the links.  One talks about the scouts foundation in Masonry.  Yes I was a scout though unfortunately.  There were many ceremonies (blue and gold) and candle lit ceremonies.  The God spoken about in Masonry is meant to depict the scouts beliefs.  This is what lower level masons do as well.   

HOWEVER, the Boy Scouts are NOT important to this thread.   High ranking Orthodox clergy are listed.
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« Reply #68 on: February 11, 2012, 10:54:59 PM »



Being a "member" of Christ's True Church should be enough for anyone. 


Aren't you a member of this forum?


I didn't have to swear an oath to be a member of this forum.  Did you?

Besides, this Forum is a tool to teach others about Orthodoxy, and is used to strengthen and grow the Church, not preach against it.


Being a "member" of Christ's True Church should be enough for anyone. 


Then don't join the local PTA, don't vote for a candidate for Mayor, don't work at a company, have no friends outside the Church, don't subscribe to magazines, and certainly don't register with a political party.

....again I didn't have to swear allegiance to my boss, in order to get the job, nor to the publisher when I bought a magazine....and I am not registered with any political party.  I vote for the candidate whom I believe will lead this nation to live by God's standards.

So, for those who "know" so much about this organization....what is the benefit of joining?

Does it promise eternal salvation, or simply materialism, and more success in the present?

I believe in the One True God, and I belong to the One True Church....and that's enough for me.  I'm not going to live forever, and all my worldly possessions and successes will not follow me in to the next world.


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« Reply #69 on: February 11, 2012, 10:59:21 PM »

Taking any oath (and Masons SWEAR blood oaths) is against the scriptures.   The masonic oaths are above all other oaths.

What is a "blood oath"?

I don't know what you mean when you say "masonic oaths are above all other oaths". It is specifically instructed that the oaths are never to conflict with one's "civil, moral, or religious duties or privileges".
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« Reply #70 on: February 11, 2012, 11:01:31 PM »



Being a "member" of Christ's True Church should be enough for anyone. 


Aren't you a member of this forum?


I didn't have to swear an oath to be a member of this forum.  Did you?

Besides, this Forum is a tool to teach others about Orthodoxy, and is used to strengthen and grow the Church, not preach against it.


Being a "member" of Christ's True Church should be enough for anyone. 


Then don't join the local PTA, don't vote for a candidate for Mayor, don't work at a company, have no friends outside the Church, don't subscribe to magazines, and certainly don't register with a political party.

....again I didn't have to swear allegiance to my boss, in order to get the job, nor to the publisher when I bought a magazine....and I am not registered with any political party.  I vote for the candidate whom I believe will lead this nation to live by God's standards.

So, for those who "know" so much about this organization....what is the benefit of joining?

Does it promise eternal salvation, or simply materialism, and more success in the present?

I believe in the One True God, and I belong to the One True Church....and that's enough for me.  I'm not going to live forever, and all my worldly possessions and successes will not follow me in to the next world.




I find LizaSymonenko's post to hold pretty good insight on the topic at hand.  There is a large difference between being and Orthodox Christian & a Mason.  

For instance, there are no blood oaths to get into Orthodoxy.  You aren't presented with a blindfold, a knife to your chest, and swear to have your throat cut if your SWORN OATH is broken.  Orthodoxy (for converts for instance) wishes for your beliefs, to renounce other beliefs etc. and wants your dedication to the church.  

I do find it kind of interesting how some Orthodox seem to somewhat "don't mind" Freemasonry, some find it a conflict, and some see it as the church of Lucifer.   (I've always seen Freemasonry as the church of Lucifer myself).
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« Reply #71 on: February 11, 2012, 11:05:54 PM »



Being a "member" of Christ's True Church should be enough for anyone. 


Aren't you a member of this forum?


I didn't have to swear an oath to be a member of this forum.  Did you?

Besides, this Forum is a tool to teach others about Orthodoxy, and is used to strengthen and grow the Church, not preach against it.

That wasn't what you said. You said, "Being a "member" of Christ's True Church should be enough for anyone.", the implication being that a Christian should not be a member of any other organization. I think you would agree that is a silly thing to say.


....again I didn't have to swear allegiance to my boss, in order to get the job, nor to the publisher when I bought a magazine....and I am not registered with any political party.  I vote for the candidate whom I believe will lead this nation to live by God's standards.

So, for those who "know" so much about this organization....what is the benefit of joining?

Does it promise eternal salvation, or simply materialism, and more success in the present?

I believe in the One True God, and I belong to the One True Church....and that's enough for me.  I'm not going to live forever, and all my worldly possessions and successes will not follow me in to the next world.

So what? Your previous comment which disdained memberships of all sort made no mention of swearing allegiance. However, as a lawyer, I can tell you that you certainly owe your employer a duty of loyalty i.e. you owe your employer your allegiance.

I know so much about Masonry because I I have been a member for five years. It makes no promises to anyone anymore than the Rotary club makes promises. As to the benefits, like any association, one gets out of it what one puts into it (I think the same can be said of the Church). If one simply pays dues once a year, probably not much. Speaking for myself, I have had the opportunity to participate in worthy charity work, develop public speaking and management skills, and make a few good friends.
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« Reply #72 on: February 11, 2012, 11:07:15 PM »

Taking any oath (and Masons SWEAR blood oaths) is against the scriptures.   The masonic oaths are above all other oaths.

What is a "blood oath"?

I don't know what you mean when you say "masonic oaths are above all other oaths". It is specifically instructed that the oaths are never to conflict with one's "civil, moral, or religious duties or privileges".


Hi Sauron,

The entered apprentice (the Freemason Newbies swear this)
    "To all of which I do solemnly and sincerely promise and swear, without any hesitation, mental reservation, or secret evasion of mind in me whatsoever; binding myself under no less a penalty than that of having….

    Entered Apprentice Degree: "..my throat cut across, my tongue torn out, and with my body buried in the sands of the sea at low-water mark, where the tide ebbs and flows twice in twenty-four hours, should I ever knowingly or willfully violate this, my solemn Obligation of an Entered Apprentice."

The next rank Fellow Craft Degree: "..my left breast torn open, my heart and vitals taken thence, and with my body given as a prey to the vultures of the air, should I ever knowingly, or willfully, violate this, my solemn Obligation of a Fellow Craft.";

The next rank Master Mason Degree: "..my body severed in twain, my bowels taken thence, and with my body burned to ashes, and the ashes thereof scattered to the four winds of Heaven, that there might remain neither track, trace nor remembrance among man or Masons of so vile and perjured a wretch as I should be, should I ever knowingly or willfully violate this, my solemn Obligation of a Master Mason."

Now those 3 ranks are what "common lodges" swear.    These are blood oaths, and Masons hold these oaths above all other oaths.  Morals and Dogma (the book by Albert Pike) wrote how these oaths take priority over all others.

If the link in the original post is correct, EO Christians should know better than to swear something like all the above ranks.
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« Reply #73 on: February 11, 2012, 11:09:27 PM »

I talked with a member of the Greek Orthodox Church (GOARCH) who is a 33rd degree Mason.

Someone in the parish sponsored him and paid for his membership and all the orientation fees.
He told us that he has not been back to the lodge as he feels very uncomfortable.

Oh, and he was wearing a masonic ring and a masonic lapel pin.
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« Reply #74 on: February 11, 2012, 11:10:34 PM »

For instance, there are no blood oaths to get into Orthodoxy.  You aren't presented with a blindfold, a knife to your chest, and swear to have your throat cut if your SWORN OATH is broken.  Orthodoxy (for converts for instance) wishes for your beliefs, to renounce other beliefs etc. and wants your dedication to the church.  

I do find it kind of interesting how some Orthodox seem to somewhat "don't mind" Freemasonry, some find it a conflict, and some see it as the church of Lucifer.   (I've always seen Freemasonry as the church of Lucifer myself).

False. A knife is not used during any of the degrees. The candidate does not have a knife held to his chest. In fact, nothing of an "offensive or defensive nature" is allowed in a lodge. Where do you get your information? It is quite mistaken.

Again, what is a "blood oath"?
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« Reply #75 on: February 11, 2012, 11:17:49 PM »

For instance, there are no blood oaths to get into Orthodoxy.  You aren't presented with a blindfold, a knife to your chest, and swear to have your throat cut if your SWORN OATH is broken.  Orthodoxy (for converts for instance) wishes for your beliefs, to renounce other beliefs etc. and wants your dedication to the church.  

I do find it kind of interesting how some Orthodox seem to somewhat "don't mind" Freemasonry, some find it a conflict, and some see it as the church of Lucifer.   (I've always seen Freemasonry as the church of Lucifer myself).

False. A knife is not used during any of the degrees. The candidate does not have a knife held to his chest. In fact, nothing of an "offensive or defensive nature" is allowed in a lodge. Where do you get your information? It is quite mistaken.

Again, what is a "blood oath"?


Entered Apprentice initiation photo:


A blood oath is when you swear on your life or blood.

FROM MORALS AND DOGMA PAGE 321 & 324 (This is a HIGH RANKING MASON WHO WROTE THIS)
"The MASONIC RELIGION should be, by all of us of the high degree, maintained in the purity of the LUCIFERIAN doctrine If Lucifer were not god, would Adonay (sic) whose deeds prove his cruelty, perfidy and hatred of man, barbarism and repulsion for science, would Adonay and his priests calumniate him?

Yes, LUCIFER IS GOD, and unfortunately Adonay is also god...
Thus, the doctrine of Satanism is a heresy; and the true and pure philosophical religion is the BELIEF IN LUCIFER, THE EQUAL OF ADONAY but Lucifer, God of Light and God of GOOD, is struggling for humanity against Adonay, the GOD OF DARKNESS AND EVIL.”


Not trying to pick on anybody, just reaching out a loving hand to inform.
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« Reply #76 on: February 11, 2012, 11:18:07 PM »

Taking any oath (and Masons SWEAR blood oaths) is against the scriptures.   The masonic oaths are above all other oaths.

What is a "blood oath"?

I don't know what you mean when you say "masonic oaths are above all other oaths". It is specifically instructed that the oaths are never to conflict with one's "civil, moral, or religious duties or privileges".


Hi Sauron,

The entered apprentice (the Freemason Newbies swear this)
    "To all of which I do solemnly and sincerely promise and swear, without any hesitation, mental reservation, or secret evasion of mind in me whatsoever; binding myself under no less a penalty than that of having….

    Entered Apprentice Degree: "..my throat cut across, my tongue torn out, and with my body buried in the sands of the sea at low-water mark, where the tide ebbs and flows twice in twenty-four hours, should I ever knowingly or willfully violate this, my solemn Obligation of an Entered Apprentice."

The next rank Fellow Craft Degree: "..my left breast torn open, my heart and vitals taken thence, and with my body given as a prey to the vultures of the air, should I ever knowingly, or willfully, violate this, my solemn Obligation of a Fellow Craft.";

The next rank Master Mason Degree: "..my body severed in twain, my bowels taken thence, and with my body burned to ashes, and the ashes thereof scattered to the four winds of Heaven, that there might remain neither track, trace nor remembrance among man or Masons of so vile and perjured a wretch as I should be, should I ever knowingly or willfully violate this, my solemn Obligation of a Master Mason."

Now those 3 ranks are what "common lodges" swear.    These are blood oaths, and Masons hold these oaths above all other oaths.  Morals and Dogma (the book by Albert Pike) wrote how these oaths take priority over all others.

If the link in the original post is correct, EO Christians should know better than to swear something like all the above ranks.


The wording is not quite the same as in my jurisdiction, but I have to say those excerpts from the obligations are pretty accurate.

I don't know what a "blood oath" is, but again, it is specifically instructed that the oaths are never to conflict with one's "civil, moral, or religious duties or privileges", so they don't take priority.

Ever say "cross my heart, stick a needle in my eye" as a kid? This is grown-ups saying the same thing.

By the way, did you see my first post in this thread?
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« Reply #77 on: February 11, 2012, 11:21:02 PM »


That wasn't what you said. You said, "Being a "member" of Christ's True Church should be enough for anyone.", the implication being that a Christian should not be a member of any other organization. I think you would agree that is a silly thing to say.


...actually I don't find it silly.  The only "organizations" I belong to are Church based.


I know so much about Masonry because I I have been a member for five years. It makes no promises to anyone anymore than the Rotary club makes promises. As to the benefits, like any association, one gets out of it what one puts into it (I think the same can be said of the Church). If one simply pays dues once a year, probably not much. Speaking for myself, I have had the opportunity to participate in worthy charity work, develop public speaking and management skills, and make a few good friends.

I've made good friends and participated in charitable work through the Church.  No need to join up with some other organization....there's plenty of work to be done within the Church and via the Church.

...and as for the loyalty I "owe" my employer....it only goes so far as not to waste their time or funds, and not to do them harm.  However, the moment my employer makes me do/say something against the Church...I owe them nothing.  I am free to turn and leave.


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« Reply #78 on: February 11, 2012, 11:21:48 PM »

For instance, there are no blood oaths to get into Orthodoxy.  You aren't presented with a blindfold, a knife to your chest, and swear to have your throat cut if your SWORN OATH is broken.  Orthodoxy (for converts for instance) wishes for your beliefs, to renounce other beliefs etc. and wants your dedication to the church.  

I do find it kind of interesting how some Orthodox seem to somewhat "don't mind" Freemasonry, some find it a conflict, and some see it as the church of Lucifer.   (I've always seen Freemasonry as the church of Lucifer myself).

False. A knife is not used during any of the degrees. The candidate does not have a knife held to his chest. In fact, nothing of an "offensive or defensive nature" is allowed in a lodge. Where do you get your information? It is quite mistaken.

Again, what is a "blood oath"?


Entered Apprentice initiation photo:


A blood oath is when you swear on your life or blood.

That picture is from a movie on the History Channel or some other such cable network. It is a false dramatization. I truly hope you do not make other decisions based on what you see on tv.

Quote
FROM MORALS AND DOGMA PAGE 321 & 324 (This is a HIGH RANKING MASON WHO WROTE THIS)
"The MASONIC RELIGION should be, by all of us of the high degree, maintained in the purity of the LUCIFERIAN doctrine If Lucifer were not god, would Adonay (sic) whose deeds prove his cruelty, perfidy and hatred of man, barbarism and repulsion for science, would Adonay and his priests calumniate him?

Yes, LUCIFER IS GOD, and unfortunately Adonay is also god...
Thus, the doctrine of Satanism is a heresy; and the true and pure philosophical religion is the BELIEF IN LUCIFER, THE EQUAL OF ADONAY but Lucifer, God of Light and God of GOOD, is struggling for humanity against Adonay, the GOD OF DARKNESS AND EVIL.”


Not trying to pick on anybody, just reaching out a loving hand to inform.

I don't know anything about Albert Pike. What I do know is that no man speaks for Masonry. Also, Pike is really about the Scottish Rite, which is not the same as Freemasonry.

When you type words without finding out if they are true, you are being neither loving nor informative.
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« Reply #79 on: February 11, 2012, 11:25:00 PM »


That wasn't what you said. You said, "Being a "member" of Christ's True Church should be enough for anyone.", the implication being that a Christian should not be a member of any other organization. I think you would agree that is a silly thing to say.


...actually I don't find it silly.  The only "organizations" I belong to are Church based.

Oh, so you have renounced your citizenship?


I know so much about Masonry because I I have been a member for five years. It makes no promises to anyone anymore than the Rotary club makes promises. As to the benefits, like any association, one gets out of it what one puts into it (I think the same can be said of the Church). If one simply pays dues once a year, probably not much. Speaking for myself, I have had the opportunity to participate in worthy charity work, develop public speaking and management skills, and make a few good friends.

I've made good friends and participated in charitable work through the Church.  No need to join up with some other organization....there's plenty of work to be done within the Church and via the Church.

...and as for the loyalty I "owe" my employer....it only goes so far as not to waste their time or funds, and not to do them harm.  However, the moment my employer makes me do/say something against the Church...I owe them nothing.  I am free to turn and leave.

I am happy for all of your church activities. However, if someone is a member of the church and also decides to be a member of the Boy Scouts, the Rotary Club, or some other civic service organization, that does not mean they have some gaping spiritual void.

Yes, if you are in a right-to-work state, you can leave whenever you like. However, so long as you are there, you owe a duty of loyalty to your employer.
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« Reply #80 on: February 11, 2012, 11:28:14 PM »


So, Sauron....what about the title "Worshipful Master"?

Shouldn't worship be reserved for God alone?

...or is that just a mere title, as well....just like sticking a needle in one's eye?

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« Reply #81 on: February 11, 2012, 11:29:58 PM »

Sauron,

Here is a documentary (part one) on youtube about Masonry.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miW-89BDzLA&feature=related

The other parts on on the right in youtube.  It explains what is going on.  Believe it or not, the documentary is VERY gentle on the masons.

Many masons are not aware of what Masonry is, so don't feel bad. Most think more or less its like a fraternity.   So I'm absolutely not thumbing my nose at you or anything.

I'm humbly asking you as a brother in Christ, to research these things.  Check out freemasonrywatch.org .  Watch some documentaries on the masons.  You won't see many documentaries against regular fraternities (other than angry moms LOL), but you do behind the masons because there is so much more.   It's a very deep & powerful organization.  At the grassroots & town level, it appears as a fraternity to most.

God Bless.
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« Reply #82 on: February 11, 2012, 11:33:42 PM »


So, Sauron....what about the title "Worshipful Master"?

Shouldn't worship be reserved for God alone?

...or is that just a mere title, as well....just like sticking a needle in one's eye?



(KJV) Matthew 23:

 8But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.

 9And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

 10Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

We should call NO man "Master".
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88Devin12
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« Reply #83 on: February 11, 2012, 11:33:59 PM »

Does anyone really take Old Believers seriously anymore?

As for that History Channel picture... Does anyone really take the History Channel seriously anymore?

Oh, and I definitely can see the photos from the Old Believer website being in Greek Tabloids rather than reliable newspapers...

If he thinks the Boy Scouts and the Lions Club are masonic, then, well, I just don't know, that's sad...

There are Greek Boy Scouts (though not called that), are THEY masonic as well? LOL

Should Orthodox be freemasons? Certainly not... Does that mean no Orthodox have ever been freemasons? Certainly not...

People who like to think the freemasons are trying to take over the world, or usher in a Satanic one-world religion, one-world government under the Anti-Christ are simply misguided in so many ways. Same goes for those who say the same about the Jews...
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88Devin12
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« Reply #84 on: February 11, 2012, 11:36:31 PM »

Sauron,

Here is a documentary (part one) on youtube about Masonry.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miW-89BDzLA&feature=related

The other parts on on the right in youtube.  It explains what is going on.  Believe it or not, the documentary is VERY gentle on the masons.

Many masons are not aware of what Masonry is, so don't feel bad. Most think more or less its like a fraternity.   So I'm absolutely not thumbing my nose at you or anything.

I'm humbly asking you as a brother in Christ, to research these things.  Check out freemasonrywatch.org .  Watch some documentaries on the masons.  You won't see many documentaries against regular fraternities (other than angry moms LOL), but you do behind the masons because there is so much more.   It's a very deep & powerful organization.  At the grassroots & town level, it appears as a fraternity to most.

God Bless.

Who really cares what a video on YouTube says? Besides, many people don't realize that freemasonry in the United States IS a fraternal organization. Sure, in Europe it was probably a little cultish and insane, but in the United States, in many places, it has become little more than a fraternal organization.

I don't agree with it, but that doesn't mean I'm going to act like its all a big conspiracy, or its one big, giant cult.
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« Reply #85 on: February 11, 2012, 11:39:31 PM »


Deacon Lance, my brother, just read the links.  One talks about the scouts foundation in Masonry.  Yes I was a scout though unfortunately.  There were many ceremonies (blue and gold) and candle lit ceremonies.  The God spoken about in Masonry is meant to depict the scouts beliefs.  This is what lower level masons do as well.   
You keep talking about the Blue and Gold Banquet.

There is NO standard ceremony for the Blue and Gold Banquet, the annual springtime dinner where Cub Scouts get awards from their Pack, maybe watch a magic show or something of the like, and celebrate all they've learned that year.  There is nothing Masonic about it.  Every banquet is different, as each pack has the ability to structure it to their needs, facilities, time constraints, youth members, etc.  And I fail to see how a "candlelit ceremony" is exclusively Masonic.

I grew up in Scouting from Tiger Cubs through my 18th birthday.  I am an Eagle Scout.  As an adult, I'm a scout leader.  Every week, I'm working with young people within the Scouting program.  You are gravely mistaken, and I wish you would refrain from further commentary about Scouting, as it's clear you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about.
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« Reply #86 on: February 11, 2012, 11:40:49 PM »


So, Sauron....what about the title "Worshipful Master"?

Shouldn't worship be reserved for God alone?

...or is that just a mere title, as well....just like sticking a needle in one's eye?

The term "worship" comes from Masonry's origin in England. The term "your worship" is used to address mayors, judges, and other such officials in the UK and in countries that were formerly part of the British Empire. According to you, can a Canadian Christian address the mayor of his town as "Your Worship"? In English, "worship" originally meant "respect/esteem", and it still retains that meaning. It is only later that it also took on the meaning of the adoration, or λατρεια if you favor the Greek, that is reserved to God alone.

I am afraid that here you have just shown your unfamiliarity with the English language as it is used in the rest of the English-speaking world.
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88Devin12
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« Reply #87 on: February 11, 2012, 11:42:21 PM »


Deacon Lance, my brother, just read the links.  One talks about the scouts foundation in Masonry.  Yes I was a scout though unfortunately.  There were many ceremonies (blue and gold) and candle lit ceremonies.  The God spoken about in Masonry is meant to depict the scouts beliefs.  This is what lower level masons do as well.   
You keep talking about the Blue and Gold Banquet.

There is NO standard ceremony for the Blue and Gold Banquet, the annual springtime dinner where Cub Scouts get awards from their Pack, maybe watch a magic show or something of the like, and celebrate all they've learned that year.  There is nothing Masonic about it.  Every banquet is different, as each pack has the ability to structure it to their needs, facilities, time constraints, youth members, etc.  And I fail to see how a "candlelit ceremony" is exclusively Masonic.

I grew up in Scouting from Tiger Cubs through my 18th birthday.  I am an Eagle Scout.  As an adult, I'm a scout leader.  Every week, I'm working with young people within the Scouting program.  You are gravely mistaken, and I wish you would refrain from further commentary about Scouting, as it's clear you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about.

I'm thinking this character has read way too much from that Old Believer website, and his desire for real truth has become skewed.

My friend (yeshuaism), I would advise you back away from the Old Believer website. I've been in the company of someone similar to Old Believers and it started to effect me as well, thankfully I got away from it and looking back, I now see how insane the ideas this person had were.
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LizaSymonenko
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« Reply #88 on: February 11, 2012, 11:44:50 PM »


I am afraid that here you have just shown your unfamiliarity with the English language as it is used in the rest of the English-speaking world.


Please forgive my apparent ignorance and lack of mastery of the English language!

.....plllleeease.

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« Reply #89 on: February 11, 2012, 11:45:01 PM »


Deacon Lance, my brother, just read the links.  One talks about the scouts foundation in Masonry.  Yes I was a scout though unfortunately.  There were many ceremonies (blue and gold) and candle lit ceremonies.  The God spoken about in Masonry is meant to depict the scouts beliefs.  This is what lower level masons do as well.   
You keep talking about the Blue and Gold Banquet.

There is NO standard ceremony for the Blue and Gold Banquet, the annual springtime dinner where Cub Scouts get awards from their Pack, maybe watch a magic show or something of the like, and celebrate all they've learned that year.  There is nothing Masonic about it.  Every banquet is different, as each pack has the ability to structure it to their needs, facilities, time constraints, youth members, etc.  And I fail to see how a "candlelit ceremony" is exclusively Masonic.

I grew up in Scouting from Tiger Cubs through my 18th birthday.  I am an Eagle Scout.  As an adult, I'm a scout leader.  Every week, I'm working with young people within the Scouting program.  You are gravely mistaken, and I wish you would refrain from further commentary about Scouting, as it's clear you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about.

I'm thinking this character has read way too much from that Old Believer website, and his desire for real truth has become skewed.

My friend (yeshuaism), I would advise you back away from the Old Believer website. I've been in the company of someone similar to Old Believers and it started to effect me as well, thankfully I got away from it and looking back, I now see how insane the ideas this person had were.
Old Believers have their time and place.  They believe what they believe, and for many of them, it's a way of life they have lived for generations.  There's no reason to criticize them or claim that they shouldn't be taken seriously.  They simply should be understood in context.  No need to call them insane.
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