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Author Topic: Very controversial, Orthodox Freemasons  (Read 12890 times) Average Rating: 0
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podkarpatska
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« Reply #315 on: September 20, 2013, 06:48:18 PM »


How did you know that is my favorite hobby?!

Because I've lived in Pennsylvania, I know just how bored one can get.  Tongue

Been there, done that...the Pennsylvania thing, not the kicking thing....
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theistgal
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« Reply #316 on: September 20, 2013, 08:21:23 PM »

Why are you screaming???  Are you trying to get us killed?



"And I wanna apologize to Josh's mom ... (sniff) ... and Mike's mom ... (sob) ... and my mom ..." etc. etc. [/end Blair Witch reference]
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« Reply #317 on: October 17, 2013, 12:38:09 AM »

The Golden Dawn of modern Greece is a Neo-Nazi political party, nothing more. You're confusing it with the Hermetic Order of The Golden Dawn, which was an initiatory magic order formed in the 19th century:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermetic_Order_of_the_Golden_Dawn

Other than the name, the two organizations share absolutely nothing in common.
I believe that the Greek Neo-Nazis got their name from the Occult group. The Greek Neo-Nazis writings include occultism in their magazine, as I discussed on another thread about Golden Dawn you can find on the forum.

Where else did they pick their name from? They are both occult groups, although one is largely a political party.

I can't seem to find much evidence that this political party has anything to do with the occult. Apart from the apparent fact that during the 1980's they had "roots in neopaganism" whatever that means. They also seemed to be largely anti-masonic and anti-christian, which automatically excludes them from being tagged as an occult order in any way similar to the original Golden Dawn. Especially since the old Golden Dawn system was firmly rooted in and based on freemasonry and the Christian mythos.

In any case, the group seems to have "embraced" Greek Orthodoxy as of today. These guys apparently don't know which way is up..
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Nikolaos Greek
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« Reply #318 on: October 17, 2013, 08:37:55 AM »

Golden dawn does not embrace in real Orthodoxy. Just to win the people.
The highest embers have write sogns about the enemy.
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« Reply #319 on: October 17, 2013, 09:15:52 AM »

A timely post from Sanidoupoulos reporting a Smiley leading Greek Bishop condemning Golden Dawn and a renegade monastery.

http://www.johnsanidopoulos.com/2013/10/declaration-on-golden-dawn.html
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« Reply #320 on: October 17, 2013, 06:15:49 PM »

Golden dawn does not embrace in real Orthodoxy.

I completely agree with you. They also don't embrace the esoteric teachings of the original Golden Dawn.
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« Reply #321 on: October 17, 2013, 07:08:36 PM »

'Orthodox Freemasons', an oxymoron surely?
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« Reply #322 on: October 17, 2013, 07:52:50 PM »

'Orthodox Freemasons', an oxymoron surely?

Depends on who you ask.  police
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« Reply #323 on: October 17, 2013, 10:14:30 PM »

'Orthodox Freemasons', an oxymoron surely?

A useful waste of time for some and an open secret to others.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2013, 10:14:52 PM by rakovsky » Logged
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« Reply #324 on: October 17, 2013, 10:40:40 PM »

Speaking of oxymorons, isn't much of the relationship between Christianity and Masonry "oxymoronic", or rather contradictory.

Take for example the Orthodox Square Club (http://www.osca-int.org)

The website talks about Fr. James Stathakios in Detroit as a priest overseeing their activities, and says "at present there are 16 Chapters on the Organisation's roster." Yet how can there be open "Masonic" Orthodox organizations if there Church statements disagreeing with it?

On their website they have this announcement about their "Traditional Easter Feast", which of course has a Christian theme.



The curious thing is the red cross with INRI. Why does it use Latin letters if it is Orthodox? Perhaps that is just a typo and the red color and rose are random? Or maybe it has a different meaning?

EWTN reports:
Quote
The Catholic Church has difficulties with Freemasonry because it is indeed a kind of religion unto itself... INRI (For Christians... Jesus of Nazareth King of the Jews) means for Masons "Igne Natura Renovatur Integra" ("the fire of nature rejuvenates all) referring to the sacred fire's (truth and love) regeneration of mankind, just as the sun regenerates nature in the Spring.
http://www.ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/WHATMAS.HTM


« Last Edit: October 17, 2013, 10:42:53 PM by rakovsky » Logged
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« Reply #325 on: October 18, 2013, 12:58:32 AM »

A timely post from Sanidoupoulos reporting a Smiley leading Greek Bishop condemning Golden Dawn and a renegade monastery.

http://www.johnsanidopoulos.com/2013/10/declaration-on-golden-dawn.html

Metropolitan Seraphim has also been quite vocal in the past few months against Golden Dawn. Although, he spends a lot of time condemning their pagan influences
« Last Edit: October 18, 2013, 12:59:16 AM by Gunnarr » Logged

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« Reply #326 on: October 18, 2013, 01:00:12 AM »

'Orthodox Freemasons', an oxymoron surely?

there are confirmed "orthodox freemasons" bishops so no not an oxymoron, unless we stop calling those bishops orthodox
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« Reply #327 on: October 18, 2013, 07:34:00 AM »

'Orthodox Freemasons', an oxymoron surely?

there are confirmed "orthodox freemasons" bishops so no not an oxymoron, unless we stop calling those bishops orthodox
Like who? Proof?

PP
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« Reply #328 on: October 18, 2013, 11:12:13 AM »

Gunarr,
there are confirmed "orthodox freemasons" bishops so no not an oxymoron, unless we stop calling those bishops orthodox
Can't people be "oxymoronic"? For example, what about some of Jesus' descriptions of the pharisees as making rules that do not follow other principles?

If the Orthodox Church makes statements about Masonry, yet some bishops are freemasons, shouldn't you look at both and decide which makes sense? For example, do Orthodox criticisms of Masonry as a religious group make sense? Or are there Orthodox reasons why a bishop should be Masonic?
« Last Edit: October 18, 2013, 11:13:05 AM by rakovsky » Logged
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« Reply #329 on: October 18, 2013, 11:36:21 AM »

'Orthodox Freemasons', an oxymoron surely?

there are confirmed "orthodox freemasons" bishops so no not an oxymoron, unless we stop calling those bishops orthodox
Like who? Proof?
Primus,

I am not interested in discouraging people about Orthodoxy. We should have right faith, not faith in individual hierarchs. I don't know which bishops Gunarr has in mind or what his proof would be.

One article that has a noncanonical viewpoint says that in April, 1963
Quote
Greek Archbishop James of North and South America (a Freemason of the 33rd degree)... in April, 1963... said: “It would be utterly foolish for the true believer to pretend or to insist that the whole truth has been revealed only to them, and they alone possess it. Such a claim would be both unbiblical and untheological… Christ did not specify the date nor the place that the Church would suddenly take full possession of the truth.”
http://www.orthodoxchristianbooks.com/articles/281/ten-reasons-why-ecumenical-patriarchate-is-not-orthodox
Granted, the article does not say where it got the claim he was a freemason from. I tend to think the bishop's statement is correct- we do not know everything. On the other hand, our Church is supposed to be Catholic, ie. it has the fullness of the faith. It feels strange that he says it would be foolish to say we alone have the whole truth. Orthodoxy considers itself to have more truth than other religions.

Another article, about Orthodox Freemasons, says Antiochian Archbishop Niphon Sabbas of Lebanon is a 33 Degree Freemason and includes this photo:

(http://www.scribd.com/doc/130103744/Greek-Orthodox-Freemasons-Hierarchs-Clergymen-Who-Have-Been-Members)
« Last Edit: October 18, 2013, 11:39:10 AM by rakovsky » Logged
TheTrisagion
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« Reply #330 on: October 18, 2013, 01:04:29 PM »

No offense, but that website doesn't exactly scream scholarly investigation.
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« Reply #331 on: October 18, 2013, 01:05:51 PM »

'Orthodox Freemasons', an oxymoron surely?

there are confirmed "orthodox freemasons" bishops so no not an oxymoron, unless we stop calling those bishops orthodox
Like who? Proof?
Primus,

I am not interested in discouraging people about Orthodoxy. We should have right faith, not faith in individual hierarchs. I don't know which bishops Gunarr has in mind or what his proof would be.

One article that has a noncanonical viewpoint says that in April, 1963
Quote
Greek Archbishop James of North and South America (a Freemason of the 33rd degree)... in April, 1963... said: “It would be utterly foolish for the true believer to pretend or to insist that the whole truth has been revealed only to them, and they alone possess it. Such a claim would be both unbiblical and untheological… Christ did not specify the date nor the place that the Church would suddenly take full possession of the truth.”
http://www.orthodoxchristianbooks.com/articles/281/ten-reasons-why-ecumenical-patriarchate-is-not-orthodox
Granted, the article does not say where it got the claim he was a freemason from. I tend to think the bishop's statement is correct- we do not know everything. On the other hand, our Church is supposed to be Catholic, ie. it has the fullness of the faith. It feels strange that he says it would be foolish to say we alone have the whole truth. Orthodoxy considers itself to have more truth than other religions.

Another article, about Orthodox Freemasons, says Antiochian Archbishop Niphon Sabbas of Lebanon is a 33 Degree Freemason and includes this photo:

(http://www.scribd.com/doc/130103744/Greek-Orthodox-Freemasons-Hierarchs-Clergymen-Who-Have-Been-Members)
Once I read this:

Quote
“The leadership of many local new calendar Churches that is, bishops, other clergy, theologians, etc. have been overcome by Masonry.”
I knew what this thing was. Gonna have to do better than that.

PP
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« Reply #332 on: October 18, 2013, 01:48:37 PM »

Quote
Another article, about Orthodox Freemasons, says Antiochian Archbishop Niphon Sabbas of Lebanon is a 33 Degree Freemason and includes this photo:

Once I read this:
Quote
“The leadership of many local new calendar Churches that is, bishops, other clergy, theologians, etc. have been overcome by Masonry.”
I knew what this thing was. Gonna have to do better than that.
I think the statement you quoted is too vague and is misleading, as if New Calendar bishops, clergy, and theologians were very often Masons, when in fact only certain individuals would be. Yet how is one to say that is never the case? What about the photograph?

A reliable website, the Greek Archdiocese's, relates a curious story about Gerasimos Papadopoulos: Bishop of Abydos, The Wise Abba of America. It says that in 1934,
Quote
an unexpected and inexplicable event troubled his peaceful monastic life. Someone, whose name he never learned, sent him a copy of the periodical Anaplasis, which had a commentary on the position of the Professors of the School of Theology at the University of Athens regarding the Order of Masons. Their position was neither for nor against. But it sparked tremendous questions in the spirit of the young monk, who did not have the necessary education to judge for himself. There was no qualified person to help him with the agonizing question, nor could he find one. He was pondering over this issue day and night, wondering why the professors spoke the way they did. He wondered what Masonry is and what influence it had upon the Church. Since he could not find an answer, he thought of going "out into the world" - as the monks of the Holy Mountain say - in order to find appropriate people, to ask them, to have things explained to him.
http://www.goarch.org/ourfaith/ourfaith8175
What does it mean that it sparked the monk's interest, and why does the author say that there was no one at the monastery to answer about it? Why did he go "out into the world" to find the answer, and what did he do there? The article does not give the result of his inquiries about it either.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2013, 01:59:01 PM by rakovsky » Logged
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« Reply #333 on: October 18, 2013, 02:04:21 PM »

Aren't masons among Old Calendar bishops too?
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« Reply #334 on: October 18, 2013, 04:14:52 PM »

Just about the least interesting topic , in my mind , that has been discussed to tears.
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hecma925
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« Reply #335 on: October 19, 2013, 11:46:06 AM »

Freemasons are bogeymen and they control the world.  It just happens that the majority of them were initiated in the 1950s and '60s.  Old men wearing aprons spook me.
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« Reply #336 on: October 19, 2013, 01:40:19 PM »

hecma925,

In America I assume is largely older people, but perhaps there is a different situation in some other countries? As to the issue of bishops, are two articles you can read in Russian claiming Masonic activity by bishops in the Bulgarian Church.

The first says that Bulgarian Orthodox made a petition saying "Bishop Paul of Levkiysk and Metropoliatn Galaktion of Stara Zagora are Masons who even organized in 2009 an 'Annual Council of Knights Templars' in Stara Zagora." The article mentions a Masonic funeral in a Bulgarian church.
http://ruskline.ru/news_rl/2010/06/04/cel_masonstva_unichtozhenie_pravoslaviya/

"On October 4 in Stara-Zagora in the hotel "Vereya" there was a Council (dukhovniy sobor) of Bulgarian Templars. In the work of the Council 180 Templars participated, and also a large number of Orthodox priests."

http://ruskline.ru/monitoring_smi/2010/02/04/vnimanie_iniciirovana_ocherednaya_provokaciya_protiv_rpc

Why there would be such an interest in modern Bulgaria in Templars, in case it is true, escapes me.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2013, 01:42:33 PM by rakovsky » Logged
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« Reply #337 on: October 19, 2013, 06:08:06 PM »

Templars were the original international bankers and the legend was they found something of import during the Crusades in Jerusalem.  I think by claiming and identifying with the title is a way to "capture" that lost historical power.  Which is why the Templars is an order within Freemasonry.  All Templars are Mason, not all Masons are Templars.

There is somewhat of a revival in some Grand Lodges.  A lot of young men that had grandfathers in the Blue Lodges are finding it appealing to have that brotherhood and networking.  But it's not widespread.  For the most part, in my region, most lodges are older men.  Prince Hall Mason lodges, OTOH, always have young men coming in.

I do not know about other Grand Lodges in other countries.  Perhaps someone can share knowledge as to what kind of age composition we're looking at in other countries?
« Last Edit: October 19, 2013, 06:09:49 PM by hecma925 » Logged

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