Poll

Do you believe that Fr. Seraphim Rose should be canonized as a Saint?

Yes
43 (62.3%)
No
10 (14.5%)
Not Sure
16 (23.2%)

Total Members Voted: 69

Author Topic: Fr. Seraphim Rose...Saint?  (Read 11443 times)

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Offline celticfan1888

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Re: Fr. Seraphim Rose...Saint?
« Reply #90 on: February 07, 2012, 02:48:57 PM »
Can we have Fr. Seraphim without the toll-houses?  :'(

What is your problem with toll houses? It is a pretty legit idea.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2012, 02:50:27 PM by celticfan1888 »
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Offline Ortho_cat

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Re: Fr. Seraphim Rose...Saint?
« Reply #91 on: February 07, 2012, 06:13:35 PM »
Can we have Fr. Seraphim without the toll-houses?  :'(

What is your problem with toll houses? It is a pretty legit idea.

ya, i dont really care for them...see the 20 page thread :-\

Offline Alpo

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Re: Fr. Seraphim Rose...Saint?
« Reply #92 on: February 07, 2012, 06:20:32 PM »
Can we have Fr. Seraphim without the toll-houses?  :'(

Can we have John Chrystostom without attributing sins to the Mother of God? Can we have Gregory of Nyssa without Apokatastasis? Can we have Elder Paisios without Greek Nationalism?
« Last Edit: February 07, 2012, 06:24:28 PM by Alpo »

Offline That person

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Re: Fr. Seraphim Rose...Saint?
« Reply #93 on: February 07, 2012, 06:24:03 PM »
The answer to all of those would be "Sure, but it wouldn't be nearly as fun."
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Offline Alpo

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Re: Fr. Seraphim Rose...Saint?
« Reply #94 on: February 07, 2012, 06:27:05 PM »
The answer to all of those would be "Sure, but it wouldn't be nearly as fun."

LOL.

It would be a lot funnier since Nationalism of Paisios drives me nuts makes me unable to comprehend any of his teachings.

Offline JamesRottnek

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Re: Fr. Seraphim Rose...Saint?
« Reply #95 on: February 07, 2012, 06:47:55 PM »
Was he really that nationalistic?  I only ask because one of his disciples, Met. Athanaius of Limassol, is very un-nationalistic.
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Offline Ansgar

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Re: Fr. Seraphim Rose...Saint?
« Reply #96 on: February 07, 2012, 07:01:42 PM »
Elder Paisios did express a deep love for Greece and it's culture and language, but that's only natural. I don't consider him any more nationalistic than so many other saints and elders
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Offline Alpo

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Re: Fr. Seraphim Rose...Saint?
« Reply #97 on: February 08, 2012, 03:38:53 AM »
Was he really that nationalistic?  I only ask because one of his disciples, Met. Athanaius of Limassol, is very un-nationalistic.

That's how I understood some of his speeches that I've read. IIRC he talks about regions and culture of his childhood and contrasts those with supposed European culture which one must neglect in order to become true Orthodox. His idea is seems to be that Greece and her culture is more Orthodox than "European culture" which probably means Northern and Central Europe and her culture.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2012, 03:56:09 AM by Alpo »

Offline akimori makoto

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Re: Fr. Seraphim Rose...Saint?
« Reply #98 on: February 09, 2012, 01:19:04 AM »
Was he really that nationalistic?  I only ask because one of his disciples, Met. Athanaius of Limassol, is very un-nationalistic.

That's how I understood some of his speeches that I've read. IIRC he talks about regions and culture of his childhood and contrasts those with supposed European culture which one must neglect in order to become true Orthodox. His idea is seems to be that Greece and her culture is more Orthodox than "European culture" which probably means Northern and Central Europe and her culture.

Nevermind ...
« Last Edit: February 09, 2012, 01:19:38 AM by akimori makoto »
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Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Fr. Seraphim Rose...Saint?
« Reply #99 on: February 09, 2012, 01:33:54 AM »
Blasphemous picture of Fr. Seraphim Rose:



As you can see, he is expressing the passion of smiling. This photo must have been altered by World Orthodoxy to discredit him.
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Offline Aindriú

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Re: Fr. Seraphim Rose...Saint?
« Reply #100 on: February 09, 2012, 09:54:09 AM »
One word: Origen

I'm going to need this.

Offline Cavaradossi

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Re: Fr. Seraphim Rose...Saint?
« Reply #101 on: February 09, 2012, 10:07:24 AM »
Blasphemous picture of Fr. Seraphim Rose:

<blasphemous image of smiling Fr. Seraphim removed>

As you can see, he is expressing the passion of smiling. This photo must have been altered by World Orthodoxy to discredit him.

Not everybody can be like St. Silouan the Athonite.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2012, 10:08:45 AM by Cavaradossi »
Be comforted, and have faith, O Israel, for your God is infinitely simple and one, composed of no parts.

Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Fr. Seraphim Rose...Saint?
« Reply #102 on: February 09, 2012, 11:04:04 AM »
Blasphemous picture of Fr. Seraphim Rose:

<blasphemous image of smiling Fr. Seraphim removed>

As you can see, he is expressing the passion of smiling. This photo must have been altered by World Orthodoxy to discredit him.

Not everybody can be like St. Silouan the Athonite.

Please excuse me for asking because it is often tough to tell when posters are really being serious ... Are you guys serious about the smiling thing or are you, as I hope, trying to make a point with a touch of irony. Thanks!

Offline Cavaradossi

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Re: Fr. Seraphim Rose...Saint?
« Reply #103 on: February 09, 2012, 11:09:34 AM »
Blasphemous picture of Fr. Seraphim Rose:

<blasphemous image of smiling Fr. Seraphim removed>

As you can see, he is expressing the passion of smiling. This photo must have been altered by World Orthodoxy to discredit him.

Not everybody can be like St. Silouan the Athonite.

Please excuse me for asking because it is often tough to tell when posters are really being serious ... Are you guys serious about the smiling thing or are you, as I hope, trying to make a point with a touch of irony. Thanks!

Well, I do believe that it is often said that St. Silouan never laughed. Whether laughing is an impediment to holiness, I don't know.
Be comforted, and have faith, O Israel, for your God is infinitely simple and one, composed of no parts.

Offline Papist

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Re: Fr. Seraphim Rose...Saint?
« Reply #104 on: February 09, 2012, 05:08:48 PM »
In this thread, someone mentioned a possible problem in Fr. Seraphim Rose' approach to the charismatic movement. Did he support this movement, speaking in tongues and all?
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Offline jckstraw72

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Re: Fr. Seraphim Rose...Saint?
« Reply #105 on: February 09, 2012, 05:11:45 PM »
In this thread, someone mentioned a possible problem in Fr. Seraphim Rose' approach to the charismatic movement. Did he support this movement, speaking in tongues and all?

definitely not! he was quite critical of it, and i guess some people may think he went too far. he discerned that it could sometimes be of demonic influence.

Offline Papist

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Re: Fr. Seraphim Rose...Saint?
« Reply #106 on: February 09, 2012, 05:13:27 PM »
In this thread, someone mentioned a possible problem in Fr. Seraphim Rose' approach to the charismatic movement. Did he support this movement, speaking in tongues and all?

definitely not! he was quite critical of it, and i guess some people may think he went too far. he discerned that it could sometimes be of demonic influence.
Were there any strains of the charismatic community present among Eastern Orthodox Christians?
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Offline jckstraw72

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Re: Fr. Seraphim Rose...Saint?
« Reply #107 on: February 09, 2012, 05:18:44 PM »
In this thread, someone mentioned a possible problem in Fr. Seraphim Rose' approach to the charismatic movement. Did he support this movement, speaking in tongues and all?

definitely not! he was quite critical of it, and i guess some people may think he went too far. he discerned that it could sometimes be of demonic influence.
Were there any strains of the charismatic community present among Eastern Orthodox Christians?

there is one priest in particular, Fr. Eusebius Stephanou, who is influenced by the charismatic movement. Fr. Seraphim speaks of his theology and shows it to be quite un-Orthodox.

Offline primuspilus

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Re: Fr. Seraphim Rose...Saint?
« Reply #108 on: February 09, 2012, 05:41:18 PM »
I agree with Fr. Seraphim on this. I think Charismaticism is dangerous.

PP
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Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Fr. Seraphim Rose...Saint?
« Reply #109 on: February 09, 2012, 05:44:02 PM »
Blasphemous picture of Fr. Seraphim Rose:

<blasphemous image of smiling Fr. Seraphim removed>

As you can see, he is expressing the passion of smiling. This photo must have been altered by World Orthodoxy to discredit him.

Not everybody can be like St. Silouan the Athonite.

Please excuse me for asking because it is often tough to tell when posters are really being serious ... Are you guys serious about the smiling thing or are you, as I hope, trying to make a point with a touch of irony. Thanks!

Well, I do believe that it is often said that St. Silouan never laughed. Whether laughing is an impediment to holiness, I don't know.

A well thought out homily on laughter may be found at this link. We are not all called to monastic virtue and we often forget that monks are people as well.

The Theological Necessity for Humor
http://www.pravmir.com/the-theological-necessity-for-humor/

Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Fr. Seraphim Rose...Saint?
« Reply #110 on: February 09, 2012, 07:20:51 PM »
Blasphemous picture of Fr. Seraphim Rose:

<blasphemous image of smiling Fr. Seraphim removed>

As you can see, he is expressing the passion of smiling. This photo must have been altered by World Orthodoxy to discredit him.

Not everybody can be like St. Silouan the Athonite.

Please excuse me for asking because it is often tough to tell when posters are really being serious ... Are you guys serious about the smiling thing or are you, as I hope, trying to make a point with a touch of irony. Thanks!
The latter.
Quote from: Orthonorm
if Christ does and says x. And someone else does and says not x and you are ever in doubt, follow Christ.

Πάντα μὲν καθαρὰ τοῖς καθαροῖς
Τοῖς δὲ μεμιασμένοις καὶ ἀπίστοις οὐδὲν καθαρόν

Offline primuspilus

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Re: Fr. Seraphim Rose...Saint?
« Reply #111 on: February 09, 2012, 08:52:28 PM »


We're always serious...........

PP
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Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker

Offline Iconodule

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Re: Fr. Seraphim Rose...Saint?
« Reply #112 on: February 09, 2012, 08:58:53 PM »
Did I miss something? Why is everyone adopting St. Patrick avatars?

Offline primuspilus

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Re: Fr. Seraphim Rose...Saint?
« Reply #113 on: February 09, 2012, 09:05:40 PM »
Did I miss something? Why is everyone adopting St. Patrick avatars?
Well, I respect St. Patrick, but I am also passively protesting something that I'd rather not say on a public forum.

PP
"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"
Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker

Offline JamesRottnek

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Re: Fr. Seraphim Rose...Saint?
« Reply #114 on: February 10, 2012, 12:07:01 AM »
Did I miss something? Why is everyone adopting St. Patrick avatars?

I love Irish things.
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Offline LBK

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Re: Fr. Seraphim Rose...Saint?
« Reply #115 on: February 10, 2012, 12:18:13 AM »
No longer posting here. Anyone is welcome to PM me or email me at the address in my profile.

Offline Papist

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Re: Fr. Seraphim Rose...Saint?
« Reply #116 on: February 10, 2012, 01:29:50 PM »
I agree with Fr. Seraphim on this. I think Charismaticism is dangerous.

PP
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Offline Monk Vasyl

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Re: Fr. Seraphim Rose...Saint?
« Reply #117 on: February 10, 2012, 02:25:10 PM »
Did I miss something? Why is everyone adopting St. Patrick avatars?
Well, I respect St. Patrick, but I am also passively protesting something that I'd rather not say on a public forum.

PP

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Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: Fr. Seraphim Rose...Saint?
« Reply #118 on: July 20, 2012, 07:46:13 PM »
*bump*

Offline Punch

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Re: Fr. Seraphim Rose...Saint?
« Reply #119 on: July 21, 2012, 10:08:58 AM »
*bump*

I still think that he is a Saint.
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

Offline age234

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Re: Fr. Seraphim Rose...Saint?
« Reply #120 on: July 21, 2012, 10:54:06 AM »
I think he is a saint. But due to the tempest in the teapot in this country over toll houses, I wouldn't be surprised if he was canonized elsewhere.

I know he's controversial in his own right, but I once read an even-handed assessment of the situation by OCA bishop Tikhon (Fitzgerald), who basically said Fr Seraphim believed in prayer book toll houses, and the argument blew up with the then-Dcn Lev and got out of hand. They were silenced because of the public argument, not because Fr Seraphim was wrong.

Anyway, thats my assessment, but let's not get bogged down in that debate here. I don't think toll houses are a significant problem regardless. Many saints have opinions. Saint means Holy, and that should be our main criterion. I don't think anyone would argue Fr Seraphim is not in heaven, so I fail to see the problem. I hope they uncover his relics someday soon.

Offline celticfan1888

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Re: Fr. Seraphim Rose...Saint?
« Reply #121 on: July 21, 2012, 12:22:54 PM »
Forgive my sins.

Offline Protoevangel

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Re: Fr. Seraphim Rose...Saint?
« Reply #122 on: July 21, 2012, 02:14:40 PM »
Holy Saint Seraphim of Platina, pray for us!
"The unholy doubt, not because they are ostensibly more rational, but because they are unholy.
The holier man is always the more rational, for in the clear mirror of his heart he sees the truth.
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Offline Orthodox11

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Re: Fr. Seraphim Rose...Saint?
« Reply #123 on: July 21, 2012, 03:26:22 PM »
He is.

I look at Fr. Seraphim much like he looked at St. Augustine: A great example of repentance and ascetic struggle, but who, in his zeal to combat various errors, went too far in the opposite direction, resulting in some rather questionable positions (his book on the Soul After Death being an example).
« Last Edit: July 21, 2012, 03:27:14 PM by Orthodox11 »

Offline Kerdy

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Re: Fr. Seraphim Rose...Saint?
« Reply #124 on: July 21, 2012, 04:01:38 PM »
In this thread, someone mentioned a possible problem in Fr. Seraphim Rose' approach to the charismatic movement. Did he support this movement, speaking in tongues and all?

definitely not! he was quite critical of it, and i guess some people may think he went too far. he discerned that it could sometimes be of demonic influence.

I never heard of Fr. Seraphim Rose before this thread, but I would agree with him completely on this statement.

Offline Nicene

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Re: Fr. Seraphim Rose...Saint?
« Reply #125 on: July 21, 2012, 04:01:58 PM »
I don't know but I certaintly do have some admiration for the man from what I know.
Thank you.

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Re: Fr. Seraphim Rose...Saint?
« Reply #126 on: July 22, 2012, 12:02:41 AM »
He is.

I look at Fr. Seraphim much like he looked at St. Augustine: A great example of repentance and ascetic struggle, but who, in his zeal to combat various errors, went too far in the opposite direction, resulting in some rather questionable positions (his book on the Soul After Death being an example).
In fact, IIRC, Fr. Seraphim was a big advocate for St. Augustine against those who sought to disparage Augustine's legacy.
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Offline Orthodox11

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Re: Fr. Seraphim Rose...Saint?
« Reply #127 on: July 22, 2012, 08:25:12 AM »
In fact, IIRC, Fr. Seraphim was a big advocate for St. Augustine against those who sought to disparage Augustine's legacy.

Yes, he published a small book on the subject. I think many of the arguments he makes in that book are ones we can equally apply to him.

Offline celticfan1888

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Re: Fr. Seraphim Rose...Saint?
« Reply #128 on: July 22, 2012, 10:59:31 PM »
He is.

I look at Fr. Seraphim much like he looked at St. Augustine: A great example of repentance and ascetic struggle, but who, in his zeal to combat various errors, went too far in the opposite direction, resulting in some rather questionable positions (his book on the Soul After Death being an example).

Even if that's true, still a saint
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Offline Orthodox11

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Re: Fr. Seraphim Rose...Saint?
« Reply #129 on: July 23, 2012, 03:19:58 PM »
Even if that's true, still a saint

I believe he is, but time will tell.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2012, 03:20:14 PM by Orthodox11 »

Offline jckstraw72

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Re: Fr. Seraphim Rose...Saint?
« Reply #130 on: September 06, 2012, 09:49:53 AM »
its really only in America where he is controversial. He is widely loved and venerated in Orthodox countries. At his 30th anniversary this past weekend there was a Georgian abbot and a Serbian abbot who has named a kellia after him in one of his monasteries (he is the abbot of 2). There was also Bp. Daniil of the Bulgarians who spoke of how influential Fr. Seraphim has been in Bulgaria (Met. Joseph of the Bulgarians spoke of the same 5 yrs ago). While I was at Platina this past summer a bishop from Russia came with a group of pilgrims who came to America to see St. John and Fr. Seraphim. Only Americans have problems with him (well, and a certain Canadian ....)

Offline recent convert

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Re: Fr. Seraphim Rose...Saint?
« Reply #131 on: September 06, 2012, 09:54:55 AM »
There is also much ignorance of basic Christian faith in the old world and that is why it does not survive in the new world by immigrants from old world Orthodox nations. He may be loved by those of the cloth & is largely unknown by most laity.
Antiochian OC N.A.

Offline jckstraw72

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Re: Fr. Seraphim Rose...Saint?
« Reply #132 on: September 06, 2012, 10:01:33 AM »
There is also much ignorance of basic Christian faith in the old world and that is why it does not survive in the new world by immigrants from old world Orthodox nations. He may be loved by those of the cloth & is largely unknown by most laity.

my own experiences in Greece and Serbia say otherwise, and first-hand stories I've heard from many others regarding other countries. I'm sure clergy are more aware of him, but the pious laity are as well. Bp. Daniil said that after Communism fell in Bulgaria he found that amongst those who were returning to the Church (or entering for the first time) Fr. Seraphim was very popular. Just online you can find many blogs and other websites with info on him from Romania, Greece, Serbia, Bulgaria, Russia, Georgia, etc.

Offline Gorazd

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Re: Fr. Seraphim Rose...Saint?
« Reply #133 on: September 06, 2012, 10:10:10 AM »
its really only in America where he is controversial. He is widely loved and venerated in Orthodox countries.
In Bulgaria, he is extremely controversial.

Offline 88Devin12

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Re: Fr. Seraphim Rose...Saint?
« Reply #134 on: September 06, 2012, 10:16:48 AM »
As I mentioned in the other thread. It doesn't matter what we, or various people in other countries think, it's entirely up to ROCOR to canonize him.