Author Topic: Everyone is usually blathering on about the God-instituted monarchy  (Read 16297 times)

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Offline biro

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Re: Everyone is usually blathering on about the God-instituted monarchy
« Reply #180 on: February 06, 2012, 08:48:01 PM »
I am such a fool. Yesterday, crown princess Mary turned 40.
 

Happy Birthday to her! She looks good.
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Offline akimori makoto

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Re: Everyone is usually blathering on about the God-instituted monarchy
« Reply #181 on: February 06, 2012, 11:08:28 PM »
I am such a fool. Yesterday, crown princess Mary turned 40.
 

I am very impressed by her. Do the Danes feel the same way?
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Offline Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)

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Re: Everyone is usually blathering on about the God-instituted monarchy
« Reply #182 on: February 06, 2012, 11:41:58 PM »
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I have often though that one of the reasons my country has encountered certain difficulties, is that our head of state wears no official hat.

I personally feel that the key to President Obama's overwhelming popularity is that the brother has the first good hair cut in 200 years of American presidents ;)

I mean, a bunch of goofy white guy hair cuts


and then..

BAM


Finally the most style in the White House since Jackie O

stay blessed,
habte selassie

When I read "overwhelming popularity," I double-checked the date of your utterance. My friend, he is the most unpopular President since Carter and that says volumes.

Offline HabteSelassie

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Re: Everyone is usually blathering on about the God-instituted monarchy
« Reply #183 on: February 07, 2012, 12:50:03 AM »
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!



For Her Majesty's Diamond Jubilee
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I have often though that one of the reasons my country has encountered certain difficulties, is that our head of state wears no official hat.

I personally feel that the key to President Obama's overwhelming popularity is that the brother has the first good hair cut in 200 years of American presidents ;)

I mean, a bunch of goofy white guy hair cuts


and then..

BAM


Finally the most style in the White House since Jackie O

stay blessed,
habte selassie

When I read "overwhelming popularity," I double-checked the date of your utterance. My friend, he is the most unpopular President since Carter and that says volumes.

Partly I meant his popularity cult of the 2008/09 era, but it seems to me that a lot of folks may be upset with his current job, but are not entirely against him personally.  Further, if he was so hated, wouldn't he have to step down like LBJ?  Further, if he is so disliked, how come the Republican candidates are rallying around "who can beat Obama" and not necessarily their ideal choices?

By the way, I don't support politics one way or the other, and no one is MORE critical of this and any US president, however I was talking in the social sense, and Barack Obama is definitely still more socially popular then other controversial US presidents, otherwise his re-election would be a non-starter rather then a debate and rallying cry for both sides of these silly partisan divides.  

stay blessed,
habte selassie
« Last Edit: February 07, 2012, 12:50:23 AM by HabteSelassie »
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Offline primuspilus

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Re: Everyone is usually blathering on about the God-instituted monarchy
« Reply #184 on: February 07, 2012, 10:53:38 AM »
Quote
Partly I meant his popularity cult of the 2008/09 era
Which is still apologizing for him.

Quote
but it seems to me that a lot of folks may be upset with his current job, but are not entirely against him personally
There are plenty of inept nice guys. They should still be fired.

Quote
Further, if he was so hated, wouldn't he have to step down like LBJ?
Because you're dealing with a 1st rate narcissist. That guy is a legend in his own mind. Remember that "office of the president elect" crap he did like every day before he was elected? What a tool.

Quote
Further, if he is so disliked, how come the Republican candidates are rallying around "who can beat Obama" and not necessarily their ideal choices?
Voting "against" something doesn't usually work and besides, nothing buys an election like handouts.

Quote
otherwise his re-election would be a non-starter rather then a debate and rallying cry for both sides of these silly partisan divides. 
Partisanship is nothing new. We just see it more because of the 24 hours news cycle. I remember reading about Thomas Jefferson (I think it was) stating John Adams wanted the US to have reunion with the Crown.

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Offline vamrat

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Re: Everyone is usually blathering on about the God-instituted monarchy
« Reply #185 on: February 07, 2012, 11:31:00 AM »
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I have often though that one of the reasons my country has encountered certain difficulties, is that our head of state wears no official hat.

I personally feel that the key to President Obama's overwhelming popularity is that the brother has the first good hair cut in 200 years of American presidents ;)

I mean, a bunch of goofy white guy hair cuts


and then..

BAM


Finally the most style in the White House since Jackie O

stay blessed,
habte selassie

Really?  If all we were going by was the hair, Rutherford B Hayes is one step away from Sainthood.
Das ist des Jägers Ehrenschild, daß er beschützt und hegt sein Wild, weidmännisch jagt, wie sich’s gehört, den Schöpfer im Geschöpfe ehrt.

Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Everyone is usually blathering on about the God-instituted monarchy
« Reply #186 on: February 07, 2012, 11:34:28 AM »
@ Biro - So you would make Obama a king rather than a president who can be deposed through election or term limits? Or (Bush, Clinton, insert president's name here)?

@gensisone - Does this passage apply to all Earthly rulers? Did God institute Hitler? Mao? Stalin? (insert evil dictator's name here)?

@JamesRottnek  - True, God's ways are not ours. But I don't think we should confuse the actions of men with the actions of God.



God's Providence included the rise to power of Hitler, Mao, Stalin, and Pol Pot.  God's Providence included the Holocaust.

We live in an imperfect world and we are fallen  - read Genesis from any Christian point of view. If this were not so, than there would have been no need for the Incarnation.

Offline vamrat

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Re: Everyone is usually blathering on about the God-instituted monarchy
« Reply #187 on: February 07, 2012, 11:37:24 AM »
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!




stay blessed,
habte selassie

HIM always wins in terms of style.  Hands down.  Not only did he beat the Italians on the field of battle, but then went on to out-dress them, just to rub it in.  And out-dressing an Italian is a coup in anyone's book.
Das ist des Jägers Ehrenschild, daß er beschützt und hegt sein Wild, weidmännisch jagt, wie sich’s gehört, den Schöpfer im Geschöpfe ehrt.

Offline ironchapman

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Re: Everyone is usually blathering on about the God-instituted monarchy
« Reply #188 on: February 26, 2012, 02:18:48 AM »
It's my position that it doesn't necessarily matter what form of government a given state has. What matters is if the people in charge are obedient to God.

This can happen in an absolute monarchy, a constitutional monarchy, a duarchy (like San Marino today, for example), a republic, or any other conceivable form of governance.

I linked to a few interesting pieces of food for thought on the subject here: http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,40788.msg673649.html#msg673649

Furthermore, we ought to consider 1st Samuel chapter 8, where God informs the people that their desire for a king is in fact a rejection of Him. God warns of what a king could do, saying:

5 They said to him, “You are old, and your sons do not follow your ways; now appoint a king to lead us, such as all the other nations have.”

6 But when they said, “Give us a king to lead us,” this displeased Samuel; so he prayed to the LORD. 7 And the LORD told him: “Listen to all that the people are saying to you; it is not you they have rejected, but they have rejected me as their king. 8 As they have done from the day I brought them up out of Egypt until this day, forsaking me and serving other gods, so they are doing to you. 9 Now listen to them; but warn them solemnly and let them know what the king who will reign over them will claim as his rights.”

 10 Samuel told all the words of the LORD to the people who were asking him for a king. 11 He said, “This is what the king who will reign over you will claim as his rights: He will take your sons and make them serve with his chariots and horses, and they will run in front of his chariots. 12 Some he will assign to be commanders of thousands and commanders of fifties, and others to plow his ground and reap his harvest, and still others to make weapons of war and equipment for his chariots. 13 He will take your daughters to be perfumers and cooks and bakers. 14 He will take the best of your fields and vineyards and olive groves and give them to his attendants. 15 He will take a tenth of your grain and of your vintage and give it to his officials and attendants. 16 Your male and female servants and the best of your cattle[c] and donkeys he will take for his own use. 17 He will take a tenth of your flocks, and you yourselves will become his slaves. 18 When that day comes, you will cry out for relief from the king you have chosen, but the LORD will not answer you in that day.”

 19 But the people refused to listen to Samuel. “No!” they said. “We want a king over us. 20 Then we will be like all the other nations, with a king to lead us and to go out before us and fight our battles.”

 21 When Samuel heard all that the people said, he repeated it before the LORD. 22 The LORD answered, “Listen to them and give them a king.”


The result was Saul, who committed suicide for all his failures; then David, who, for all his great works and love for God, was an adulterer and a murderer; Solomon, who for all his wisdom still became an idolator; and so many of the corrupt (morally, spiritually, and politically) rulers that followed them. For every Asa or Josiah, there are Ahabs, Manassehs, and Jehorams. The mismanagement of Israel by one bad king after another eventually led to its destruction. even the capable kings like Omri or Azariah get scant mention in the Bible due to spiritual issues, even though by human terms, they were both successful (Omri, for one, was said to have sinned "more than all those before him" in 1 Kings 16:21-28). The number of bad or spiritually lacking kings of Israel and Judah far outnumbers the number of good kings.

The Israelites only wanted a king to begin with so that they could be like the other nations around them. Instead of being God's people, they wanted to imitate the ways of the world, thus God's initial refusal to give them a king. It was only after they continually pressed God for one that he allowed one, but only after making them aware of the evils the king would commit.

I linked to it in that post I mentioned, but I'll post the link again. Orthodox Answers has a great response on the monarchy vs other forms of government question:

Quote
Thus, we are called to transcend politics and do what is right in the sight of God. When we place our loyalty to any political entity — whether it be a party, a nation or an ideology — above God, disaster follows. One need only look at the early 20th century in places like Germany, Russia and China to see the outcome of party above God. It cost the world millions of lives.

For an excellent example of a Christian transcending politics, see St. Paul's letter to Philemon. He is obedient to the law of the land — he sends back the run away slave Onesimus to his master Philemon; however, he calls Philemon to welcome back his run away slave, not as a slave, but as a brother. Thus, Paul, while obeying the law moves beyond the law to something greater — a vision of the world where

Quote
by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body — whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free — and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. (1Cor 12:13)

Indeed, according to tradition, Philemon does welcome back Onesimus as brother. Not only is Onesimus freed, but is eventually ordained as a bishop.

Thus, Orthodox Christianity does not promote any kind of political system over another. Rather, it is beyond politics.

Are monarchies there "by the grace of God"? He certainly suffers them to exist, but the kinds of blessings I believe a nation like the USA has been given, in addition to the fact that the nation as a whole is in general more religious than most other countries that are similarly developed (and in some cases, said countries are monarchies), leads me to conclude that a monarchy is not the only form of governance acceptable to Christians.

Though I am neither a fan of Lew Rockwell or his website, and I don't care for Ron Paul, the first half of the actual letter here has some good insight as well, particular until the paragraph that ends with " I believe that it can and that the presidential election of 2008 is the key to this restoration."
« Last Edit: February 26, 2012, 02:51:07 AM by ironchapman »
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