Author Topic: Whores will enter the kingdom of heaven befopre CEO's  (Read 5179 times)

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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Whores will enter the kingdom of heaven befopre CEO's
« Reply #90 on: January 25, 2012, 09:06:08 PM »
You do know what a proportion is, right? Sheer dollars are different from percentages--

Forget it.  ::)
It doesn't matter. Nobody will be happy until the evil rich are driven out of the country. Keep dreaming this fool's dream. We need rich folks. Sorry.

Taxing the rich at 100% wont fix our ills. Taking everything the own in totality wont fix our ills.

Wanting the rich to pay tax at the same rate as the middle class isn't driving them out of the country.  Wanting to end entitlement programs for the rich isn't class warfare.   
You mean dropping the rich from Medicare and Social Security?
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Offline Νεκτάριος

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Re: Whores will enter the kingdom of heaven befopre CEO's
« Reply #91 on: January 26, 2012, 04:25:04 AM »
You do know what a proportion is, right? Sheer dollars are different from percentages--

Forget it.  ::)
It doesn't matter. Nobody will be happy until the evil rich are driven out of the country. Keep dreaming this fool's dream. We need rich folks. Sorry.

Taxing the rich at 100% wont fix our ills. Taking everything the own in totality wont fix our ills.

Wanting the rich to pay tax at the same rate as the middle class isn't driving them out of the country.  Wanting to end entitlement programs for the rich isn't class warfare.   
You mean dropping the rich from Medicare and Social Security?

No - I mean dropping tax breaks that drop their [the rich] rate below that of the middle class.  That's an entitlement. 

Offline Keble

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Now this is getting boring
« Reply #92 on: January 26, 2012, 10:01:03 AM »
Few things about politics are more tedious than discussions of who is more worthy to be taxed. And few things are more irrelevant to religion.

The more obvious point, the one that has anything whatsoever to do with (a) religion, and in particular (b) the title of this thread, is that CEOs are very much the people of power and prestige as the scribes, pharisees, rich men and all the others upon whom Jesus was heaping woes in the beatitudes. Or as He says in another place, "they have their reward already."

Offline primuspilus

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Re: Now this is getting boring
« Reply #93 on: January 26, 2012, 11:39:40 AM »
Few things about politics are more tedious than discussions of who is more worthy to be taxed. And few things are more irrelevant to religion.

The more obvious point, the one that has anything whatsoever to do with (a) religion, and in particular (b) the title of this thread, is that CEOs are very much the people of power and prestige as the scribes, pharisees, rich men and all the others upon whom Jesus was heaping woes in the beatitudes. Or as He says in another place, "they have their reward already."

Yeah, but I think it is wrong to say a super broad general statement like "Whores will get to heaven before CEO's." That is simply a stupid comment.

EDIT: I think that it has nothing to do with the position of a person (CEO, rich person, poor person), but what you do with what God gives you.

PP
« Last Edit: January 26, 2012, 11:40:43 AM by primuspilus »
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Offline biro

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Re: Whores will enter the kingdom of heaven befopre CEO's
« Reply #94 on: January 26, 2012, 01:01:22 PM »
Well, St. Mary of Egypt did get into Heaven. Can't think of any recent saints who owned companies, but then, they certainly could be in Heaven too.

Offline primuspilus

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Re: Whores will enter the kingdom of heaven befopre CEO's
« Reply #95 on: January 26, 2012, 01:03:20 PM »
Well, St. Mary of Egypt did get into Heaven. Can't think of any recent saints who owned companies, but then, they certainly could be in Heaven too.
Im not saying that whores could not go to heaven. I would never say that. however, to say that CEO's wont go to heaven because they are a CEO, or stating they're put to the back of the line, is a stupid statement. Pure and simple. It is a moronic statement.

PP
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Offline augustin717

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Re: Whores will enter the kingdom of heaven befopre CEO's
« Reply #96 on: January 26, 2012, 01:05:59 PM »
Well, St. Mary of Egypt did get into Heaven. Can't think of any recent saints who owned companies, but then, they certainly could be in Heaven too.
Im not saying that whores could not go to heaven. I would never say that. however, to say that CEO's wont go to heaven because they are a CEO, or stating they're put to the back of the line, is a stupid statement. Pure and simple. It is a moronic statement.

PP
Christ said it before, if it's stupid.

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Whores will enter the kingdom of heaven befopre CEO's
« Reply #97 on: January 26, 2012, 01:13:20 PM »
Well, St. Mary of Egypt did get into Heaven. Can't think of any recent saints who owned companies, but then, they certainly could be in Heaven too.
Im not saying that whores could not go to heaven. I would never say that. however, to say that CEO's wont go to heaven because they are a CEO, or stating they're put to the back of the line, is a stupid statement. Pure and simple. It is a moronic statement.

PP
Christ said it before, if it's stupid.
No, He didn't.
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Offline vamrat

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Re: Whores will enter the kingdom of heaven befopre CEO's
« Reply #98 on: January 26, 2012, 01:16:16 PM »
Well, St. Mary of Egypt did get into Heaven. Can't think of any recent saints who owned companies, but then, they certainly could be in Heaven too.
Im not saying that whores could not go to heaven. I would never say that. however, to say that CEO's wont go to heaven because they are a CEO, or stating they're put to the back of the line, is a stupid statement. Pure and simple. It is a moronic statement.

PP

Though it is worth noting that the Saints who were rich tend to be well known for giving much (if not all of it) away, or are Saints because they ended up getting martyred.  Just like the whores had to turn away from their lifestyles.  Christ told the adulteress to go away and sin no more.  He also told the rich man to give away all he owned and to follow him.
Das ist des Jägers Ehrenschild, daß er beschützt und hegt sein Wild, weidmännisch jagt, wie sich’s gehört, den Schöpfer im Geschöpfe ehrt.

Offline biro

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Re: Whores will enter the kingdom of heaven befopre CEO's
« Reply #99 on: January 26, 2012, 01:17:33 PM »
Well, St. Mary of Egypt did get into Heaven. Can't think of any recent saints who owned companies, but then, they certainly could be in Heaven too.
Im not saying that whores could not go to heaven. I would never say that. however, to say that CEO's wont go to heaven because they are a CEO, or stating they're put to the back of the line, is a stupid statement. Pure and simple. It is a moronic statement.

PP

Though it is worth noting that the Saints who were rich tend to be well known for giving much (if not all of it) away, or are Saints because they ended up getting martyred.  Just like the whores had to turn away from their lifestyles.  Christ told the adulteress to go away and sin no more.  He also told the rich man to give away all he owned and to follow him.

True.

Offline primuspilus

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Re: Whores will enter the kingdom of heaven befopre CEO's
« Reply #100 on: January 26, 2012, 01:22:22 PM »
Correct. The comment, "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter the kingdom of God" had nothing to do with what he had, but because many rich folks rely on their riches rather than God. It had nothing to do with him being a rich person per se.

I would like to not, please be careful about damning all rich people....we have saints that were not only rich, but were the richest people on Earth at the time.

PP
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Offline Keble

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Re: Now this is getting boring
« Reply #101 on: January 27, 2012, 12:26:18 AM »
Few things about politics are more tedious than discussions of who is more worthy to be taxed. And few things are more irrelevant to religion.

The more obvious point, the one that has anything whatsoever to do with (a) religion, and in particular (b) the title of this thread, is that CEOs are very much the people of power and prestige as the scribes, pharisees, rich men and all the others upon whom Jesus was heaping woes in the beatitudes. Or as He says in another place, "they have their reward already."

Yeah, but I think it is wrong to say a super broad general statement like "Whores will get to heaven before CEO's." That is simply a stupid comment.

It's a super broad statement because you are reading it super-broadly.

Offline primuspilus

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Re: Now this is getting boring
« Reply #102 on: January 27, 2012, 12:46:48 PM »
Few things about politics are more tedious than discussions of who is more worthy to be taxed. And few things are more irrelevant to religion.

The more obvious point, the one that has anything whatsoever to do with (a) religion, and in particular (b) the title of this thread, is that CEOs are very much the people of power and prestige as the scribes, pharisees, rich men and all the others upon whom Jesus was heaping woes in the beatitudes. Or as He says in another place, "they have their reward already."

Yeah, but I think it is wrong to say a super broad general statement like "Whores will get to heaven before CEO's." That is simply a stupid comment.

It's a super broad statement because you are reading it super-broadly.

Because it is a super broad statement.

PP
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Offline augustin717

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Re: Whores will enter the kingdom of heaven befopre CEO's
« Reply #103 on: January 27, 2012, 12:55:24 PM »
One more damning thing from CEO's : while whores do not seek/have social recognition/honors etc, they do seek and have it. So,  that drives them even further away from the kingdom.

Offline primuspilus

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Re: Whores will enter the kingdom of heaven befopre CEO's
« Reply #104 on: January 27, 2012, 12:58:49 PM »
One more damning thing from CEO's : while whores do not seek/have social recognition/honors etc, they do seek and have it. So,  that drives them even further away from the kingdom.
So if you're the CEO of a brothel, does that mean it cancels itself out and a black hole swallows the Earth?

PP
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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Whores will enter the kingdom of heaven befopre CEO's
« Reply #105 on: January 27, 2012, 02:13:16 PM »
One more damning thing from CEO's : while whores do not seek/have social recognition/honors etc, they do seek and have it. So,  that drives them even further away from the kingdom.
Do you know any CEOs personally?
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Offline primuspilus

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Re: Whores will enter the kingdom of heaven befopre CEO's
« Reply #106 on: January 27, 2012, 02:17:24 PM »
One more damning thing from CEO's : while whores do not seek/have social recognition/honors etc, they do seek and have it. So,  that drives them even further away from the kingdom.
Do you know any CEOs personally?
I think earlier augustin said yes, but that doesn't excuse probably the most ridiculous statement I have ever read on this forum.

PP
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Offline vamrat

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Re: Whores will enter the kingdom of heaven befopre CEO's
« Reply #107 on: January 27, 2012, 02:32:22 PM »
One more damning thing from CEO's : while whores do not seek/have social recognition/honors etc, they do seek and have it. So,  that drives them even further away from the kingdom.
So if you're the CEO of a brothel, does that mean it cancels itself out and a black hole swallows the Earth?

PP

No, in this instance I am sure the CEO is not actually working...
Das ist des Jägers Ehrenschild, daß er beschützt und hegt sein Wild, weidmännisch jagt, wie sich’s gehört, den Schöpfer im Geschöpfe ehrt.

Offline primuspilus

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Re: Whores will enter the kingdom of heaven befopre CEO's
« Reply #108 on: January 27, 2012, 02:33:15 PM »
One more damning thing from CEO's : while whores do not seek/have social recognition/honors etc, they do seek and have it. So,  that drives them even further away from the kingdom.
So if you're the CEO of a brothel, does that mean it cancels itself out and a black hole swallows the Earth?

PP

No, in this instance I am sure the CEO is not actually working...

 :laugh: :laugh:
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Offline spiltteeth

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Re: Whores will enter the kingdom of heaven befopre CEO's
« Reply #109 on: February 11, 2012, 02:12:37 PM »
Anyone see the superb documentary the corporation? In it they clarify that it is the form the institution has taken that they find immoral, not the people that work there. They even show an enviromenaly minded Ceo who works for a huge enviromengally destructive oil corporation.

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Whores will enter the kingdom of heaven befopre CEO's
« Reply #110 on: February 11, 2012, 02:21:45 PM »
One more damning thing from CEO's : while whores do not seek/have social recognition/honors etc, they do seek and have it.
Evidently you haven't heard of the Mayflower Madame, the Hollywood Whore, Spitzer's playmate, etc.  Plenty of whores seek social recognition/honors, and even worse, some get it.  Look at Madonna, Paris Hilton, etc...
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Offline HabteSelassie

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Re: Now this is getting boring
« Reply #111 on: February 11, 2012, 10:05:36 PM »
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Few things about politics are more tedious than discussions of who is more worthy to be taxed. And few things are more irrelevant to religion.

The more obvious point, the one that has anything whatsoever to do with (a) religion, and in particular (b) the title of this thread, is that CEOs are very much the people of power and prestige as the scribes, pharisees, rich men and all the others upon whom Jesus was heaping woes in the beatitudes. Or as He says in another place, "they have their reward already."

Well, St. Mary of Egypt did get into Heaven. Can't think of any recent saints who owned companies, but then, they certainly could be in Heaven too.
Im not saying that whores could not go to heaven. I would never say that. however, to say that CEO's wont go to heaven because they are a CEO, or stating they're put to the back of the line, is a stupid statement. Pure and simple. It is a moronic statement.

PP

Quote
But Jesus again replying, said to them, Children, how difficult is it for those who have confidence in riches to enter into the kingdom of God
Matthew 19

I won't comment on the taxes issue, but the idea of the exuberance and idolization of wealth, particularly in America, is quite contrary to the spirit of both the Church and the Gospels.  Folks can be wealthy to be sure, but lets not suddenly give all the wealthy an instant benefit of the doubt when it really is the opposite, folks with such ridiculous wealth in a global economy based largely on anti-Christian values of greed and exploitation most definitely need to openly demonstrate their Christianity.  I pray for them and us all, but the excesses of wealth in American society is definitely a valid religious issue.

stay blessed,
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Offline Opus118

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Re: Whores will enter the kingdom of heaven befopre CEO's
« Reply #112 on: February 12, 2012, 04:47:04 AM »
This is only a curiosity type question. Has the topic of this thread, Matthew 21: 28-32 been discussed prior to the split? Is it innately incompatible to compare chief priests to chief executive officers?

Offline akimori makoto

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Re: Whores will enter the kingdom of heaven befopre CEO's
« Reply #113 on: February 12, 2012, 06:20:07 PM »
One more damning thing from CEO's : while whores do not seek/have social recognition/honors etc, they do seek and have it. So,  that drives them even further away from the kingdom.
So if you're the CEO of a brothel, does that mean it cancels itself out and a black hole swallows the Earth?

PP

Whorehouse CEOs: dividing by zero since c. 3000 BC.
The Episcopallian road is easy and wide, for many go through it to find destruction. lol sorry channeling Isa.

Offline Punch

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Re: Whores will enter the kingdom of heaven befopre CEO's
« Reply #114 on: February 12, 2012, 11:32:44 PM »
One more damning thing from CEO's : while whores do not seek/have social recognition/honors etc, they do seek and have it. So,  that drives them even further away from the kingdom.
Do you know any CEOs personally?

Actually, yes.  I prefer the whores.  They are generally much nicer people.  As with everything, there are exceptions.
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

Offline theo philosopher

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Re: Whores will enter the kingdom of heaven befopre CEO's
« Reply #115 on: March 13, 2012, 08:18:24 AM »
We become angry with CEOs because they cheat people to make their money. Such anger is justifiable. But who did Jesus spend His time with? Prostitutes and tax collectors. What did tax collectors do? They cheated people to make money.

Perhaps it would be better to recognize that there's nothing wrong with the position of a CEO or even with a corporation, but that everything is wrong with the people who make up those positions and companies. This rings true whether you live in a capitalist society or a communist society.
“Wherefore, then, death approaches, gulps down the bait of the body, and is pierced by the hook of the divinity. Then, having tasted of the sinless and life-giving body, it is destroyed and gives up all those whom it had swallowed down of old." - St. John of Damascus

Offline primuspilus

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Re: Whores will enter the kingdom of heaven befopre CEO's
« Reply #116 on: March 13, 2012, 10:31:40 AM »
Quote
We become angry with CEOs because they cheat people to make their money
Ah, so all CEO's cheat folks out of money. I hate to topple you from your hill, but EVERYONE cheats EVERYONE out of money. position does not matter. If you walk out of a store and the clerk forgets to scan an item, and you leave with it without paying, you're just as guilty as a CEO fudging numbers for stock prices.

Quote
What did tax collectors do? They cheated people to make money.
No, they were sinners.

Quote
Perhaps it would be better to recognize that there's nothing wrong with the position of a CEO or even with a corporation, but that everything is wrong with the people who make up those positions and companies
There are good ones and bad ones. Just like everyone else, everywhere else.


PP
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Offline augustin717

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Re: Whores will enter the kingdom of heaven befopre CEO's
« Reply #117 on: March 13, 2012, 11:31:31 AM »
Quote
Ah, so all CEO's cheat folks out of money. I hate to topple you from your hill, but EVERYONE cheats EVERYONE out of money. position does not matter. If you walk out of a store and the clerk forgets to scan an item, and you leave with it without paying, you're just as guilty as a CEO fudging numbers for stock prices.
We hold the statement above to be self-evident BS.

Offline primuspilus

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Re: Whores will enter the kingdom of heaven befopre CEO's
« Reply #118 on: March 13, 2012, 11:33:05 AM »
Quote
Ah, so all CEO's cheat folks out of money. I hate to topple you from your hill, but EVERYONE cheats EVERYONE out of money. position does not matter. If you walk out of a store and the clerk forgets to scan an item, and you leave with it without paying, you're just as guilty as a CEO fudging numbers for stock prices.
We hold the statement above to be self-evident BS.
Sin is sin is sin. Humans make distinctions.

PP
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Offline theo philosopher

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Re: Whores will enter the kingdom of heaven befopre CEO's
« Reply #119 on: March 13, 2012, 07:01:34 PM »
Quote
We become angry with CEOs because they cheat people to make their money
Ah, so all CEO's cheat folks out of money. I hate to topple you from your hill, but EVERYONE cheats EVERYONE out of money. position does not matter. If you walk out of a store and the clerk forgets to scan an item, and you leave with it without paying, you're just as guilty as a CEO fudging numbers for stock prices.

Quote
What did tax collectors do? They cheated people to make money.
No, they were sinners.

Quote
Perhaps it would be better to recognize that there's nothing wrong with the position of a CEO or even with a corporation, but that everything is wrong with the people who make up those positions and companies
There are good ones and bad ones. Just like everyone else, everywhere else.


PP

I think you jumped the proverbial gun way too quickly here. I wasn't condemning CEOs who are rich; I apologize for a lack of clarity on my part. What I meant to type was that some CEOs cheat people out of money. To say that we all cheat people out of money is a bit extreme (as would any statement including "all" in it). Many people, even some rich CEOs, earn money honestly. What I was pointing out, however, is that even those who become rich through ill-gotten means aren't the demons that we make them out to be; Christ still dined with people like these.

Also, to say "no" to my point about tax collectors cheating people out of their money is a bit reactionary in my opinion. It's like saying that the Civil War was fought over state's rights. While technically true, exactly what were those rights concerning (to own slaves)? Likewise, while true that the tax collectors were sinners, what was their sin? It was cheating people out of their income.

I don't think there is any need for a heated response or a "shoot from the hip" response on this. I was simply pointing out that CEOs who make millions by robbing other people aren't any better or any worse than anyone else; all are welcome to the table of Christ should they choose to repent.
“Wherefore, then, death approaches, gulps down the bait of the body, and is pierced by the hook of the divinity. Then, having tasted of the sinless and life-giving body, it is destroyed and gives up all those whom it had swallowed down of old." - St. John of Damascus

Offline orthonorm

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Re: Whores will enter the kingdom of heaven befopre CEO's
« Reply #120 on: March 13, 2012, 11:39:58 PM »
This thread needs a theme song:

The Coup - 5 Million Ways to Kill a C.E.O. (Those with afraid of dancing or language heard outside a Mormon Temple should not click.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQthFDpYCys

p.s. Yes, I know this has been posted on the board before.
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Offline Shiny

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Re: Whores will enter the kingdom of heaven befopre CEO's
« Reply #121 on: March 14, 2012, 12:13:11 AM »
orthonorm where is that link to an article regarding how ancient our 40-hour work week schedule is. I can't find it, but thought it was brilliant.
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Offline Cognomen

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Re: Whores will enter the kingdom of heaven befopre CEO's
« Reply #122 on: March 14, 2012, 01:26:51 AM »
This is one of the worst threads I've ever read on OC.net. 

I'm actually overwhelmed as to what to reply to.

I'll try to stick to a point I actually know:  Steve Jobs, may he rest in peace, was extraordinarily arrogant and unpleasant to many (some would say all) who worked for and with him.  Source? Plenty of people who worked directly for and with him and, to a lesser extent, me.  This ain't talk show sourcing.

Many prostitutes I've known have been unpleasant and thoroughly sinful people.  Let's not pretend they're all nice, while the fat cats are all evil. I feel really horrible for many though, as they've ended up in such horrible situations.  I had to include that statement for those of you who would miss the point of my previous comment.  Oh, and plenty would probably count me as an unpleasant person, so I'm not "judging" ( :D) but relaying observations. May they repent and be healed (same goes for me).

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Well, St. Mary of Egypt did get into Heaven.

I take issue with implying that St. Mary of Egypt got into heaven as a prostitute.  I know what was meant, but this is isn't a proper argument.  Firstly, she is not universally believed to have been a prostitute ("sensuous passions" leaves room for interpretation).  Far more importantly, she was a thoroughly transformed person from her "early days."  That argument is akin to saying: "Well St. Paul got into heaven, so pharisees are saints." 

Simultaneously, using Christian authority to blindly defend the amassing of fortunes is silly.  I think the proof texting on both sides is lousy.  The scriptures are clear that not caring for the poor is bad.  Some CEO's have done more for the poor than many of us would.

Lastly, why is it so hard for us to avoid making calculations of condemnation and assessing who we like/don't like or think is sinning, etc.  I frequently find it enjoyable, but I also acknowledge that this is unhelpful/sinful behavior.  Let the wind up merchant, Augustin' throw out his comments, but let's not follow up with un-Christian assessments.  There's my lecturing for the day.  :police:

 
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Offline Cognomen

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Re: Whores will enter the kingdom of heaven befopre CEO's
« Reply #123 on: March 14, 2012, 01:39:45 AM »
We become angry with CEOs because they cheat people to make their money. Such anger is justifiable. But who did Jesus spend His time with? Prostitutes and tax collectors. What did tax collectors do? They cheated people to make money.

Precisely!  

All are sinners; all should repent.  

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Perhaps it would be better to recognize that there's nothing wrong with the position of a CEO or even with a corporation, but that everything is wrong with the people who make up those positions and companies. This rings true whether you live in a capitalist society or a communist society.

Sin is not tied to a job title.  There are CEO's of companies, non-profits, etc. who make very little and contribute very much.  There are CEOs who make a great deal, but give a tremendous amount away.  I know that "CEO" is being used in this case as a catch-all for meanie rich boss people, but a little more precision can't hurt.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2012, 02:01:52 AM by Cognomen »
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Whores will enter the kingdom of heaven befopre CEO's
« Reply #124 on: March 14, 2012, 01:40:36 AM »
orthonorm where is that link to an article regarding how ancient our 40-hour work week schedule is. I can't find it, but thought it was brilliant.

Blanking, if you are being serious. Unless you are referring to the stuff by Bob Black.
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Offline Shiny

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Re: Whores will enter the kingdom of heaven befopre CEO's
« Reply #125 on: March 14, 2012, 08:46:58 AM »
orthonorm where is that link to an article regarding how ancient our 40-hour work week schedule is. I can't find it, but thought it was brilliant.

Blanking, if you are being serious. Unless you are referring to the stuff by Bob Black.
Ah I got it, it was the abolition of work:

http://deoxy.org/endwork.htm
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Offline primuspilus

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Re: Whores will enter the kingdom of heaven befopre CEO's
« Reply #126 on: March 14, 2012, 09:35:08 AM »
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I think you jumped the proverbial gun way too quickly here. I wasn't condemning CEOs who are rich; I apologize for a lack of clarity on my part. What I meant to type was that some CEOs cheat people out of money.
I appreciate your clarification. I also agree with this statement.

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To say that we all cheat people out of money is a bit extreme (as would any statement including "all" in it). Many people, even some rich CEOs, earn money honestly. What I was pointing out, however, is that even those who become rich through ill-gotten means aren't the demons that we make them out to be; Christ still dined with people like these
True, there are many who got rich by cheating others out of their money. I would still use my example from earlier. Knowingly walking out of a store with something you did not pay for because the clerk did not scan it is cheating that place out of money.

However, I more respond to some folks on here who have a hatred of all folks that have more than they do.

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Sin is not tied to a job title.  There are CEO's of companies, non-profits, etc. who make very little and contribute very much.  There are CEOs who make a great deal, but give a tremendous amount away.  I know that "CEO" is being used in this case as a catch-all for meanie rich boss people, but a little more precision can't hurt
Thats the truth. I know our CEO gave away his bonus to the employees because we didn't get one. Although thats not the best example, it is still a good gesture, and something not many would do.

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