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Author Topic: Whores will enter the kingdom of heaven befopre CEO's  (Read 4012 times) Average Rating: 0
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ialmisry
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« on: January 23, 2012, 11:34:07 AM »

Rather, what I am trying to get across is that two people of the same gender can never engage in sex without sinning in the process, and to wish them well in their sin is no better than to hope for continued sin from anyone else.

No one can be baptized or confirmed Roman Catholic without taking up some erroneous doctrine in the process. And getting married Roman Catholic comes with the assurance, to the priest at least, that you will raise your children in Roman Catholicism. And after all, raising kids in godliness, not sex, is supposed to be the primary purpose of marriage. To wish someone well at his heterodox baptism/ confirmation/ wedding is therefore to condone heresy. Just send him a gift and a card instead.  

The difference is that if it were an Orthodox baptism/confirmation/wedding, there would of course be no problem.  There is no such Orthodox equivalent for a gay union, any more than there is a house blessing for a whorehouse.

Orthodox theology makes much of Christ blessing and sanctifying marriage by His Presence in Cana.  Just His mere presence.
You'd be surprised: they blessed brothels before in Romania (it was shown on tv). It's good for the business. I mean, I do not know if it's any different from blessing corporate offices etc.
and, yes, we know about your confusion about legitimate business and criminal activity.  Jobs and industry just pop out of nowhere in your workers' paradise.  Did they bless the Danube Canal?
« Last Edit: January 23, 2012, 11:34:51 AM by ialmisry » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2012, 11:38:51 AM »

Doesn't some obscurantist book say that whores will enter the kingdom of heaven befopre CEO's or some such?
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ialmisry
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« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2012, 11:52:02 AM »

Doesn't some obscurantist book say that whores will enter the kingdom of heaven befopre CEO's or some such?
No.
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« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2012, 11:53:09 AM »

Doesn't some obscurantist book say that whores will enter the kingdom of heaven befopre CEO's or some such?
We all need Christ all the same. I also guarantee there are CEO's in heaven. I also guarantee that there are former prositiutes in heaven. Im not really thinking God checks the "occupation" line on the theosis application.

PP
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« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2012, 12:22:21 PM »

Doesn't some obscurantist book say that whores will enter the kingdom of heaven befopre CEO's or some such?
We all need Christ all the same. I also guarantee there are CEO's in heaven. I also guarantee that there are former prositiutes in heaven. Im not really thinking God checks the "occupation" line on the theosis application.

PP
I wish all CEO's all went to heaven, as speedily as possible, and leave earth to us.
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ialmisry
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« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2012, 12:26:14 PM »

Doesn't some obscurantist book say that whores will enter the kingdom of heaven befopre CEO's or some such?
We all need Christ all the same. I also guarantee there are CEO's in heaven. I also guarantee that there are former prositiutes in heaven. Im not really thinking God checks the "occupation" line on the theosis application.

PP
I wish all CEO's all went to heaven, as speedily as possible, and leave earth to us.
Who's "us"?
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« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2012, 12:27:40 PM »

Those of us that do not worship them as some pinnacles of human race and all that. You might wanna join them in heaven, I dunno.
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« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2012, 12:28:56 PM »

Those of us that do not worship them as some pinnacles of human race and all that. You might wanna join them in heaven, I dunno.
I dont worship them as the pinnacle of the human race, however they are not arch-villians either.

PP
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« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2012, 12:30:02 PM »

Those of us that do not worship them as some pinnacles of human race and all that. You might wanna join them in heaven, I dunno.
I dont worship them as the pinnacle of the human race, however they are not arch-villians either.

PP
They are scum, dregs, filth . Because of the inherently oppressive nature of their position.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2012, 12:31:48 PM by augustin717 » Logged
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« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2012, 12:33:50 PM »

Those of us that do not worship them as some pinnacles of human race and all that. You might wanna join them in heaven, I dunno.
I dont worship them as the pinnacle of the human race, however they are not arch-villians either.

PP
They are scum, dregs, filth . Because of the inherently oppressive nature of their position.
Yep, they ate puppies and killed children to get where they are. Dont forget the evil, snidley whiplash-esqe moustache twirling......

PP
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« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2012, 12:51:07 PM »

Yeah, maaaan. Occupy earth.
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ialmisry
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« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2012, 01:15:36 PM »

Those of us that do not worship them as some pinnacles of human race and all that. You might wanna join them in heaven, I dunno.
better than joining the comisars in the workers' paradise.
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« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2012, 07:12:10 PM »

Doesn't some obscurantist book say that whores will enter the kingdom of heaven befopre CEO's or some such?
We all need Christ all the same. I also guarantee there are CEO's in heaven. I also guarantee that there are former prositiutes in heaven.
Why former prostitutes, but not former CEO's?
« Last Edit: January 23, 2012, 07:12:26 PM by NicholasMyra » Logged

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ialmisry
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« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2012, 02:45:16 AM »

Doesn't some obscurantist book say that whores will enter the kingdom of heaven befopre CEO's or some such?
We all need Christ all the same. I also guarantee there are CEO's in heaven. I also guarantee that there are former prositiutes in heaven.
Why former prostitutes, but not former CEO's?
because no sin is involved in that occupation, in and of itself.  of course, the "Thou shall have no god before Me" "Thou shalt not steal," "Thou shalt not covet", the rich man and the camel etc. apply.
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« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2012, 03:31:02 AM »

Doesn't some obscurantist book say that whores will enter the kingdom of heaven befopre CEO's or some such?
We all need Christ all the same. I also guarantee there are CEO's in heaven. I also guarantee that there are former prositiutes in heaven.
Why former prostitutes, but not former CEO's?
because no sin is involved in that occupation, in and of itself.  of course, the "Thou shall have no god before Me" "Thou shalt not steal," "Thou shalt not covet", the rich man and the camel etc. apply.
Yeah there is no sin in that noble and deyifing activity of hoarding up millions upon millions eatiing in the fanciest restaurants sleeping in the best hOtels getting all that honor from men ase that mysticism-obscurantist book says. In this there is no sin lmao one mIght as well practice the prayer of the heart in the midst of this all
« Last Edit: January 24, 2012, 03:38:53 AM by augustin717 » Logged
ialmisry
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« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2012, 03:47:29 AM »

Doesn't some obscurantist book say that whores will enter the kingdom of heaven befopre CEO's or some such?
We all need Christ all the same. I also guarantee there are CEO's in heaven. I also guarantee that there are former prositiutes in heaven.
Why former prostitutes, but not former CEO's?
because no sin is involved in that occupation, in and of itself.  of course, the "Thou shall have no god before Me" "Thou shalt not steal," "Thou shalt not covet", the rich man and the camel etc. apply.
Yeah there is no sin in that noble and deyifing activity of hoarding up millions upon millions eatiing in the fanciest restaurants sleeping in the best hOtels getting all that honor from men ase that mysticism-obscurantist book says. In this there is no sin lmao one mIght as well practice the prayer of the heart in the midst of this all
so green with envy...surprising you haven't converted to Islam.

No, no sin in success honestly earned.
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« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2012, 12:38:26 PM »

Doesn't some obscurantist book say that whores will enter the kingdom of heaven befopre CEO's or some such?
We all need Christ all the same. I also guarantee there are CEO's in heaven. I also guarantee that there are former prositiutes in heaven.
Why former prostitutes, but not former CEO's?
because no sin is involved in that occupation, in and of itself.  of course, the "Thou shall have no god before Me" "Thou shalt not steal," "Thou shalt not covet", the rich man and the camel etc. apply.
Yeah there is no sin in that noble and deyifing activity of hoarding up millions upon millions eatiing in the fanciest restaurants sleeping in the best hOtels getting all that honor from men ase that mysticism-obscurantist book says. In this there is no sin lmao one mIght as well practice the prayer of the heart in the midst of this all
So I guess you're hotly angered about the wedding feast with the Lord, the streets of gold and all that right? Something tells me if you had the ability to do all that you hate, you would not hate it. That color green does not befit you.


PP



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« Last Edit: January 25, 2012, 12:20:39 AM by PeterTheAleut » Logged

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« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2012, 12:51:57 PM »

oh, please stop this dumb psychoanalysis both you and ialmisry...yawn...

I told you I despise such existence hate it insofar is built upon enslaving or destroying countless others but have no envy for it, I mean I do not fantasize about switching places.
And since we are still here, let me become for a minute an armchair psychoanalyst and say that conservative envy and hate seems to be directed at people living on food-stamps. Go figure...
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« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2012, 12:56:12 PM »

Quote
And since we are still here, let me become for a minute an armchair psychoanalyst and say that conservative envy and hate seems to be directed at people living on food-stamps
Actually, no. I was on food stamps for about 5 months 3 years back. However, I was also working 2 jobs and not finding ways to stay on the public dole ie. farting out more kids for a welfare raise, faking permanent injuries, etc. THAT is what I have a problem with.

PP
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« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2012, 12:59:45 PM »

That's what they teach you at church nowadays, that childbearing is analogous to farting? talk about culture shaping religion....
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« Reply #20 on: January 24, 2012, 01:05:33 PM »

Quote
And since we are still here, let me become for a minute an armchair psychoanalyst and say that conservative envy and hate seems to be directed at people living on food-stamps
Actually, no. I was on food stamps for about 5 months 3 years back. However, I was also working 2 jobs and not finding ways to stay on the public dole ie. farting out more kids for a welfare raise, faking permanent injuries, etc. THAT is what I have a problem with.

PP
You are a typical case in the conservative camp: your living on food-stamps is somehow justified since you were not lacking in all sorts of personal virtues that so many other put there-I would venture to say, of a different color than you, perhaps a different language- lack. So, you deserved a bit of support from the state because  you were industrious (virtuous), while those others  are worthy vessels of conservative wrath since they are "lazy" (lacking in virtue). A certain parable from a certain book comes to mind...
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« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2012, 01:11:15 PM »

It's the same thought process that justifies, in many CEO's and bankers' minds, their getting bailed out by the state (IE food-stamps) since they must have been exceedingly virtuous to have gotten there, in the first place.
Conservatism can also be said to be a fetishization of hierarchy.
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« Reply #22 on: January 24, 2012, 01:27:28 PM »

What does any of this stuff about food stamps and CEOs have to do with the topic? Are the couple in the OP food stamp-abusing CEOs?
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« Reply #23 on: January 24, 2012, 01:30:43 PM »

oh, please stop this dumb psychoanalysis both you and ialmisry...yawn...
No analysis needed where things are plainly stated.
I told you I despise such existence hate it insofar is built upon enslaving or destroying countless others but have no envy for it, I mean I do not fantasize about switching places.
Ah, denial.

Speaking of enslaving and destroying, did I miss your analysis of the difference between the building of the Danube Canal from building the Erie Canal?

And since we are still here, let me become for a minute an armchair psychoanalyst and say that conservative envy and hate seems to be directed at people living on food-stamps. Go figure...
...go get some facts to back it up.
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« Reply #24 on: January 24, 2012, 01:32:23 PM »

the facts are al out there in every conservative rag, touchstone included
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« Reply #25 on: January 24, 2012, 01:32:32 PM »

What does any of this stuff about food stamps and CEOs have to do with the topic? Are the couple in the OP food stamp-abusing CEOs?
Augustin, like any communist, works his socialist eutopia into everything.
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« Reply #26 on: January 24, 2012, 01:33:19 PM »

btw, ialmisry, do they still distribute conservative mormon literature at your church?
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« Reply #27 on: January 24, 2012, 01:37:35 PM »

Quote
And since we are still here, let me become for a minute an armchair psychoanalyst and say that conservative envy and hate seems to be directed at people living on food-stamps
Actually, no. I was on food stamps for about 5 months 3 years back. However, I was also working 2 jobs and not finding ways to stay on the public dole ie. farting out more kids for a welfare raise, faking permanent injuries, etc. THAT is what I have a problem with.

PP
You are a typical case in the conservative camp
Oh?  Typical bases on data or your fiat?
your living on food-stamps is somehow justified since you were not lacking in all sorts of personal virtues that so many other put there-I would venture to say, of a different color than you
I would venture that you assUme that primuspilus is white, and the "others" are black, facts not in evidence (and ignoring the fact that the vast majority of those on food stamps are white).

perhaps a different language- lack. So, you deserved a bit of support from the state because  you were industrious (virtuous), while those others  are worthy vessels of conservative wrath since they are "lazy" (lacking in virtue). A certain parable from a certain book comes to mind...
is that the book that says "if they will not work, neither should they eat"?
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« Reply #28 on: January 24, 2012, 01:40:38 PM »

btw, ialmisry, do they still distribute conservative mormon literature at your church?
since your characterizations are so divorced from reality, you will have to be more specific.
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« Reply #29 on: January 24, 2012, 01:43:15 PM »

btw, ialmisry, do they still distribute conservative mormon literature at your church?
since your characterizations are so divorced from reality, you will have to be more specific.
Like "The Natural Family" choke full with quotes from The Book of Nephi. That's the one they gave me . Did I look like an enemy of it, I dunno...
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« Reply #30 on: January 24, 2012, 01:45:51 PM »

It's the same thought process that justifies, in many CEO's and bankers' minds
ah, a reader of hearts and minds you are
their getting bailed out by the state (IE food-stamps)

I don't know of anyone ever forced to take food-stamps (as many of the bankers and CEO's were, to cover for Barney Franks and company's mismanagement).
since they must have been exceedingly virtuous to have gotten there, in the first place.
care to quote their words?
Conservatism can also be said to be a fetishization of hierarchy.
then how did the workers' paradise get that fetish?
 

You've been here long enough to know that the Convert Issues board where you and augustin717 started this debate is reserved for discussion of issues revolving around conversion to the Orthodox Christian faith and that polemic debate is not permitted there. For being one of the prime movers in a heated off-topic debate on the Convert Issues board, and considering your long history of such violations of our boundaries, you are now on Post Moderation for the next 60 days. If you think this warning unfair, please feel free to appeal it via private message to Veniamin.

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« Reply #31 on: January 24, 2012, 01:47:16 PM »

btw, ialmisry, do they still distribute conservative mormon literature at your church?
since your characterizations are so divorced from reality, you will have to be more specific.
Like "The Natural Family" choke full with quotes from The Book of Nephi. That's the one they gave me . Did I look like an enemy of it, I dunno...
Never seen it, and I've been going there for nearly two decades.  I'll ask around.
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« Reply #32 on: January 24, 2012, 01:48:31 PM »

I kept it I hope i'll find it
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« Reply #33 on: January 24, 2012, 01:53:30 PM »

the facts are al out there in every conservative rag, touchstone included
Pravda has ruined your reading skills. Or was Scînteia the rag you used to wipe your mind clean?
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« Reply #34 on: January 24, 2012, 01:56:56 PM »

I kept it I hope i'll find it
Is this it?
http://familymanifesto.net/fm/manifesto.asp
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« Reply #35 on: January 24, 2012, 02:08:18 PM »

No, it's not this one, although they are probably related.
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« Reply #36 on: January 24, 2012, 02:15:01 PM »

Quote
You are a typical case in the conservative camp: your living on food-stamps is somehow justified since you were not lacking in all sorts of personal virtues that so many other put there-I would venture to say, of a different color than you, perhaps a different language- lack. So, you deserved a bit of support from the state because  you were industrious (virtuous), while those others  are worthy vessels of conservative wrath since they are "lazy" (lacking in virtue). A certain parable from a certain book comes to mind...
Yep, he who does not work, does not eat.

I did not "deserve" anything. I dont "deserve" anything. I asked the pull from the well that I have put something into, and it was approved. While pulling from that well, I still put something in it. I did not want anyone else to feed my family but me, so as soon as I could, I got off of it. im not surprised that you have a problem with that. Nor am I surprised that you would hurl your smug and superior bolts at me from on high.

PP
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« Reply #37 on: January 24, 2012, 04:54:38 PM »

Quote
You are a typical case in the conservative camp: your living on food-stamps is somehow justified since you were not lacking in all sorts of personal virtues that so many other put there-I would venture to say, of a different color than you, perhaps a different language- lack. So, you deserved a bit of support from the state because  you were industrious (virtuous), while those others  are worthy vessels of conservative wrath since they are "lazy" (lacking in virtue). A certain parable from a certain book comes to mind...
Yep, he who does not work, does not eat.

I did not "deserve" anything. I dont "deserve" anything. I asked the pull from the well that I have put something into, and it was approved. While pulling from that well, I still put something in it. I did not want anyone else to feed my family but me, so as soon as I could, I got off of it. im not surprised that you have a problem with that. Nor am I surprised that you would hurl your smug and superior bolts at me from on high.

PP

If you don't deserve anything, can I have back all the taxes I've paid over the years which benefit other people?
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« Reply #38 on: January 24, 2012, 05:05:59 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!



stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #39 on: January 24, 2012, 05:07:51 PM »

Quote
You are a typical case in the conservative camp: your living on food-stamps is somehow justified since you were not lacking in all sorts of personal virtues that so many other put there-I would venture to say, of a different color than you, perhaps a different language- lack. So, you deserved a bit of support from the state because  you were industrious (virtuous), while those others  are worthy vessels of conservative wrath since they are "lazy" (lacking in virtue). A certain parable from a certain book comes to mind...
Yep, he who does not work, does not eat.

I did not "deserve" anything. I dont "deserve" anything. I asked the pull from the well that I have put something into, and it was approved. While pulling from that well, I still put something in it. I did not want anyone else to feed my family but me, so as soon as I could, I got off of it. im not surprised that you have a problem with that. Nor am I surprised that you would hurl your smug and superior bolts at me from on high.

PP

If you don't deserve anything, can I have back all the taxes I've paid over the years which benefit other people?
Im not the one to as. However, I was simply stating that I dont have a "I deserve this or that" attitude. I asked for help, and got it.

PP
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« Reply #40 on: January 24, 2012, 05:16:25 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!



stay blessed,
habte selassie

 laugh That conditional love so prevalent on this thread?
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« Reply #41 on: January 24, 2012, 05:41:15 PM »

Quote
You are a typical case in the conservative camp: your living on food-stamps is somehow justified since you were not lacking in all sorts of personal virtues that so many other put there-I would venture to say, of a different color than you, perhaps a different language- lack. So, you deserved a bit of support from the state because  you were industrious (virtuous), while those others  are worthy vessels of conservative wrath since they are "lazy" (lacking in virtue). A certain parable from a certain book comes to mind...
Yep, he who does not work, does not eat.

I did not "deserve" anything. I dont "deserve" anything. I asked the pull from the well that I have put something into, and it was approved. While pulling from that well, I still put something in it. I did not want anyone else to feed my family but me, so as soon as I could, I got off of it. im not surprised that you have a problem with that. Nor am I surprised that you would hurl your smug and superior bolts at me from on high.

PP

If you don't deserve anything, can I have back all the taxes I've paid over the years which benefit other people?
Im not the one to as. However, I was simply stating that I dont have a "I deserve this or that" attitude. I asked for help, and got it.

PP

I'm sure I've paid for the interstate highways and the protection of the military. Since nobody ever asks me if I want to do that, I'll expect my money soon.
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« Reply #42 on: January 24, 2012, 05:42:58 PM »

Oh, by the way, here's the connection: this thread really isn't off track at all. If gay people are taxed as much as straight people, yet they do not receive all the legal rights that straight people receive, are gay people not being subject to taxation without representation, as well as a lack of equal justice under the law?

This is not just a marriage issue.
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« Reply #43 on: January 24, 2012, 05:43:21 PM »

Quote
You are a typical case in the conservative camp: your living on food-stamps is somehow justified since you were not lacking in all sorts of personal virtues that so many other put there-I would venture to say, of a different color than you, perhaps a different language- lack. So, you deserved a bit of support from the state because  you were industrious (virtuous), while those others  are worthy vessels of conservative wrath since they are "lazy" (lacking in virtue). A certain parable from a certain book comes to mind...
Yep, he who does not work, does not eat.

I did not "deserve" anything. I dont "deserve" anything. I asked the pull from the well that I have put something into, and it was approved. While pulling from that well, I still put something in it. I did not want anyone else to feed my family but me, so as soon as I could, I got off of it. im not surprised that you have a problem with that. Nor am I surprised that you would hurl your smug and superior bolts at me from on high.

PP

If you don't deserve anything, can I have back all the taxes I've paid over the years which benefit other people?
Im not the one to as. However, I was simply stating that I dont have a "I deserve this or that" attitude. I asked for help, and got it.

PP

I'm sure I've paid for the interstate highways and the protection of the military. Since nobody ever asks me if I want to do that, I'll expect my money soon.
Forgive my inquiry, and its probably due to the inability of the internet to convey certian emotions, but your comment wasnt meant as a hit on me, was it?

PP
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« Reply #44 on: January 24, 2012, 05:59:41 PM »

Quote
You are a typical case in the conservative camp: your living on food-stamps is somehow justified since you were not lacking in all sorts of personal virtues that so many other put there-I would venture to say, of a different color than you, perhaps a different language- lack. So, you deserved a bit of support from the state because  you were industrious (virtuous), while those others  are worthy vessels of conservative wrath since they are "lazy" (lacking in virtue). A certain parable from a certain book comes to mind...
Yep, he who does not work, does not eat.

I did not "deserve" anything. I dont "deserve" anything. I asked the pull from the well that I have put something into, and it was approved. While pulling from that well, I still put something in it. I did not want anyone else to feed my family but me, so as soon as I could, I got off of it. im not surprised that you have a problem with that. Nor am I surprised that you would hurl your smug and superior bolts at me from on high.

PP

If you don't deserve anything, can I have back all the taxes I've paid over the years which benefit other people?
Only if Bill Gates, Mitt Romney and others who earned their wealth (Romney donated his inheritance to charity) get the same deal.
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« Reply #45 on: January 24, 2012, 06:05:19 PM »

laugh That conditional love so prevalent on this thread?
Careful now.  A fall off that high horse can make quite a thud.

"Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things." Not "approves all things," nor "legitimizes all things."
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« Reply #46 on: January 24, 2012, 06:12:26 PM »

Quote
You are a typical case in the conservative camp: your living on food-stamps is somehow justified since you were not lacking in all sorts of personal virtues that so many other put there-I would venture to say, of a different color than you, perhaps a different language- lack. So, you deserved a bit of support from the state because  you were industrious (virtuous), while those others  are worthy vessels of conservative wrath since they are "lazy" (lacking in virtue). A certain parable from a certain book comes to mind...
Yep, he who does not work, does not eat.

I did not "deserve" anything. I dont "deserve" anything. I asked the pull from the well that I have put something into, and it was approved. While pulling from that well, I still put something in it. I did not want anyone else to feed my family but me, so as soon as I could, I got off of it. im not surprised that you have a problem with that. Nor am I surprised that you would hurl your smug and superior bolts at me from on high.

PP

If you don't deserve anything, can I have back all the taxes I've paid over the years which benefit other people?
Im not the one to as. However, I was simply stating that I dont have a "I deserve this or that" attitude. I asked for help, and got it.

PP

I'm sure I've paid for the interstate highways and the protection of the military. Since nobody ever asks me if I want to do that, I'll expect my money soon.
I hear they are paying out by amount, so the 1% who pay 36.73% of the taxes for the Federal tab (while earning 16.9% of the adjusted gross income) will be pain first.  Given that the Federal Government is broke for Lord knows how long in the future, you're going to have a long wait, the very opposite of "soon."

http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html
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« Reply #47 on: January 24, 2012, 06:25:49 PM »

Oh, by the way, here's the connection: this thread really isn't off track at all. If gay people are taxed as much as straight people, yet they do not receive all the legal rights that straight people receive, are gay people not being subject to taxation without representation, as well as a lack of equal justice under the law?

This is not just a marriage issue.
But the those pushing it tell us it is a "private matter."

Gay couples do not form households geared to the perpetuation of society (neither do heterosexual shack-ups, which is why common law marriage is not federally recognized (only if one is in a state that recognizes and enforces it as a marriage contract)), the basis of legal recognition and support for marriage (and yes, in history childless couples have been penalized, something Griswold affected, but not done away with:witness the deductions per child).

While we are at it, why don't we first deal with something large and widespread on tax equity:the divorce court.  Parents have large percentages of their of their income taken before they receive it, and yet they not only have to pay tax on it, but they do not get to claim the children they are paying for as a deduction (and we are talking about tens, if not hundreds of billions).  I know that in Canada, this system was adopted relatively recently.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2012, 06:32:12 PM by ialmisry » Logged

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« Reply #48 on: January 24, 2012, 06:43:23 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!



stay blessed,
habte selassie
« Last Edit: January 24, 2012, 06:43:57 PM by HabteSelassie » Logged

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« Reply #49 on: January 24, 2012, 06:46:45 PM »

laugh That conditional love so prevalent on this thread?
Careful now.  A fall off that high horse can make quite a thud.


I'll take the risk, thanks. 
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« Reply #50 on: January 24, 2012, 08:37:43 PM »

Quote
However, I'm not the greatest fan of the British monarchy anyways, because the monarch is essentially without the ability to actually use the few powers she has left, and I would prefer that she have even more power than she technically does.

James, do a search on "reserve powers" as it relates to constitutional monarchies.

The ability to dismiss a democratically-elected government is a power the British monarch, through her viceroys/governors-general, retains. And it has happened, in Australia, in 1975. How much more power would you want His or Her Majesty to have?

But what I mean is that the reserve powers she has are not ones that the public would take kindly to being used, except in very extreme cases.  For instance, if I'm not mistaken, the Queen must sign each law Parliament passes.  However, imagine the uproar if she did what is her right and refused to sign one?

I honestly would prefer absolute monarchies.
Are you also into bsdm? I suspect most conservatives are.
 
You've been here long enough to know that the Convert Issues board where you and Isa started this debate is reserved for discussion of issues revolving around conversion to the Orthodox Christian faith and that polemic debate is not permitted there. For being one of the prime movers in a heated off-topic debate on the Convert Issues board, you are receiving this warning to last for the next 40 days. If you think this warning unfair, please feel free to appeal it via private message to Veniamin.

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« Reply #51 on: January 24, 2012, 10:52:37 PM »

Quote
However, I'm not the greatest fan of the British monarchy anyways, because the monarch is essentially without the ability to actually use the few powers she has left, and I would prefer that she have even more power than she technically does.

James, do a search on "reserve powers" as it relates to constitutional monarchies.

The ability to dismiss a democratically-elected government is a power the British monarch, through her viceroys/governors-general, retains. And it has happened, in Australia, in 1975. How much more power would you want His or Her Majesty to have?

But what I mean is that the reserve powers she has are not ones that the public would take kindly to being used, except in very extreme cases.  For instance, if I'm not mistaken, the Queen must sign each law Parliament passes.  However, imagine the uproar if she did what is her right and refused to sign one?

I honestly would prefer absolute monarchies.
Are you also into bsdm? I suspect most conservatives are.
No, you imagine most conservatives are.  I know many liberals are.
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« Reply #52 on: January 24, 2012, 10:59:42 PM »

Quote
However, I'm not the greatest fan of the British monarchy anyways, because the monarch is essentially without the ability to actually use the few powers she has left, and I would prefer that she have even more power than she technically does.

James, do a search on "reserve powers" as it relates to constitutional monarchies.

The ability to dismiss a democratically-elected government is a power the British monarch, through her viceroys/governors-general, retains. And it has happened, in Australia, in 1975. How much more power would you want His or Her Majesty to have?

But what I mean is that the reserve powers she has are not ones that the public would take kindly to being used, except in very extreme cases.  For instance, if I'm not mistaken, the Queen must sign each law Parliament passes.  However, imagine the uproar if she did what is her right and refused to sign one?

I honestly would prefer absolute monarchies.
Are you also into bsdm? I suspect most conservatives are.
No, you imagine most conservatives are.  I know many liberals are.
Conservatism is political BDSM. Conservatives love their "dominatrices" .
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« Reply #53 on: January 24, 2012, 11:07:33 PM »

Quote
However, I'm not the greatest fan of the British monarchy anyways, because the monarch is essentially without the ability to actually use the few powers she has left, and I would prefer that she have even more power than she technically does.

James, do a search on "reserve powers" as it relates to constitutional monarchies.

The ability to dismiss a democratically-elected government is a power the British monarch, through her viceroys/governors-general, retains. And it has happened, in Australia, in 1975. How much more power would you want His or Her Majesty to have?

But what I mean is that the reserve powers she has are not ones that the public would take kindly to being used, except in very extreme cases.  For instance, if I'm not mistaken, the Queen must sign each law Parliament passes.  However, imagine the uproar if she did what is her right and refused to sign one?

I honestly would prefer absolute monarchies.
Are you also into bsdm? I suspect most conservatives are.
No, you imagine most conservatives are.  I know many liberals are.
Conservatism is political BDSM. Conservatives love their "dominatrices" .
only in your fantasies.  I remember the great hall in the National Museum in Romania, dedicated to the love to Domnitorul Ceaucescu (and Elena was no slouch as a dominatrix).
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« Reply #54 on: January 24, 2012, 11:19:27 PM »

Quote
However, I'm not the greatest fan of the British monarchy anyways, because the monarch is essentially without the ability to actually use the few powers she has left, and I would prefer that she have even more power than she technically does.

James, do a search on "reserve powers" as it relates to constitutional monarchies.

The ability to dismiss a democratically-elected government is a power the British monarch, through her viceroys/governors-general, retains. And it has happened, in Australia, in 1975. How much more power would you want His or Her Majesty to have?

But what I mean is that the reserve powers she has are not ones that the public would take kindly to being used, except in very extreme cases.  For instance, if I'm not mistaken, the Queen must sign each law Parliament passes.  However, imagine the uproar if she did what is her right and refused to sign one?

I honestly would prefer absolute monarchies.
Are you also into bsdm? I suspect most conservatives are.
No, you imagine most conservatives are.  I know many liberals are.
Conservatism is political BDSM. Conservatives love their "dominatrices" .
only in your fantasies.  I remember the great hall in the National Museum in Romania, dedicated to the love to Domnitorul Ceaucescu (and Elena was no slouch as a dominatrix).
Not really. In principle. It appeals to people for the same sort of reasons like BDSM: love to dominate or be dominated. Boundless respect for hierarchies: Yes sir/ma'am, yes sir/ma'am !
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« Reply #55 on: January 24, 2012, 11:28:29 PM »

Quote
However, I'm not the greatest fan of the British monarchy anyways, because the monarch is essentially without the ability to actually use the few powers she has left, and I would prefer that she have even more power than she technically does.

James, do a search on "reserve powers" as it relates to constitutional monarchies.

The ability to dismiss a democratically-elected government is a power the British monarch, through her viceroys/governors-general, retains. And it has happened, in Australia, in 1975. How much more power would you want His or Her Majesty to have?

But what I mean is that the reserve powers she has are not ones that the public would take kindly to being used, except in very extreme cases.  For instance, if I'm not mistaken, the Queen must sign each law Parliament passes.  However, imagine the uproar if she did what is her right and refused to sign one?

I honestly would prefer absolute monarchies.
Are you also into bsdm? I suspect most conservatives are.
No, you imagine most conservatives are.  I know many liberals are.
Conservatism is political BDSM. Conservatives love their "dominatrices" .
only in your fantasies.  I remember the great hall in the National Museum in Romania, dedicated to the love to Domnitorul Ceaucescu (and Elena was no slouch as a dominatrix).
Not really. In principle. It appeals to people for the same sort of reasons like BDSM: love to dominate or be dominated. Boundless respect for hierarchies: Yes sir/ma'am, yes sir/ma'am !
Yes comrade.
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« Reply #56 on: January 25, 2012, 11:14:27 AM »

Quote
However, I'm not the greatest fan of the British monarchy anyways, because the monarch is essentially without the ability to actually use the few powers she has left, and I would prefer that she have even more power than she technically does.

James, do a search on "reserve powers" as it relates to constitutional monarchies.

The ability to dismiss a democratically-elected government is a power the British monarch, through her viceroys/governors-general, retains. And it has happened, in Australia, in 1975. How much more power would you want His or Her Majesty to have?

But what I mean is that the reserve powers she has are not ones that the public would take kindly to being used, except in very extreme cases.  For instance, if I'm not mistaken, the Queen must sign each law Parliament passes.  However, imagine the uproar if she did what is her right and refused to sign one?

I honestly would prefer absolute monarchies.
Are you also into bsdm? I suspect most conservatives are.
No, you imagine most conservatives are.  I know many liberals are.
Conservatism is political BDSM. Conservatives love their "dominatrices" .
only in your fantasies.  I remember the great hall in the National Museum in Romania, dedicated to the love to Domnitorul Ceaucescu (and Elena was no slouch as a dominatrix).
Not really. In principle. It appeals to people for the same sort of reasons like BDSM: love to dominate or be dominated. Boundless respect for hierarchies: Yes sir/ma'am, yes sir/ma'am !
I'd rather have a chick hit me than get my kicks from picture of Lenin.

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« Reply #57 on: January 25, 2012, 01:59:58 PM »

It's a corporatist state that's administering the beatings you get your fix from Grin
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« Reply #58 on: January 25, 2012, 02:02:15 PM »

It's a corporatist state that's administering the beatings you get your fix from Grin
No, I get my fix from not having such obvious hatred and envy for people and their possessions.

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« Reply #59 on: January 25, 2012, 02:04:42 PM »

It's hard for me to see my own sins. I need to work on that.  Embarrassed
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« Reply #60 on: January 25, 2012, 03:07:40 PM »

I have never been employed by a poor person. Thank God for everyone  including the rich. if you hate anyone you'd better consider where you want to spend eternity.
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« Reply #61 on: January 25, 2012, 03:12:25 PM »

I have never been employed by a poor person. Thank God for everyone  including the rich. if you hate anyone you'd better consider where you want to spend eternity.
Not in company of CEO's, hopefully. Whores would make for  far better company.
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« Reply #62 on: January 25, 2012, 03:16:13 PM »

I have never been employed by a poor person. Thank God for everyone  including the rich. if you hate anyone you'd better consider where you want to spend eternity.
Not in company of CEO's, hopefully. Whores would make for  far better company.
are you basing the comparison on experience?
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« Reply #63 on: January 25, 2012, 03:18:52 PM »

I have never been employed by a poor person. Thank God for everyone  including the rich. if you hate anyone you'd better consider where you want to spend eternity.
Not in company of CEO's, hopefully. Whores would make for  far better company.
are you basing the comparison on experience?
Yes.
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« Reply #64 on: January 25, 2012, 03:21:28 PM »

I have never been employed by a poor person. Thank God for everyone  including the rich. if you hate anyone you'd better consider where you want to spend eternity.
Not in company of CEO's, hopefully. Whores would make for  far better company.
are you basing the comparison on experience?
Yes.
I thought you were too pure to get involved with CEOs.
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« Reply #65 on: January 25, 2012, 03:26:03 PM »

I have never been employed by a poor person. Thank God for everyone  including the rich. if you hate anyone you'd better consider where you want to spend eternity.

People who own shops are employed by low-income people all the time. You know, the ones who buy food?
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« Reply #66 on: January 25, 2012, 03:26:17 PM »

I have never been employed by a poor person. Thank God for everyone  including the rich. if you hate anyone you'd better consider where you want to spend eternity.
Not in company of CEO's, hopefully. Whores would make for  far better company.
are you basing the comparison on experience?
Yes.
I thought you were too pure to get involved with CEOs.
Only in a few occasions when i had no choice; plus we weren't on equal footing anyways, as i was working.
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« Reply #67 on: January 25, 2012, 04:14:38 PM »

I have never been employed by a poor person. Thank God for everyone  including the rich. if you hate anyone you'd better consider where you want to spend eternity.

People who own shops are employed by low-income people all the time. You know, the ones who buy food?
And who provides the capital for those shopowners to have food to sell?
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« Reply #68 on: January 25, 2012, 04:15:21 PM »

I have never been employed by a poor person. Thank God for everyone  including the rich. if you hate anyone you'd better consider where you want to spend eternity.
Not in company of CEO's, hopefully. Whores would make for  far better company.
are you basing the comparison on experience?
Yes.
I thought you were too pure to get involved with CEOs.
Only in a few occasions when i had no choice; plus we weren't on equal footing anyways, as i was working.
Evidently so were they, or you wouldn't be.
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« Reply #69 on: January 25, 2012, 04:18:29 PM »

I have never been employed by a poor person. Thank God for everyone  including the rich. if you hate anyone you'd better consider where you want to spend eternity.

People who own shops are employed by low-income people all the time. You know, the ones who buy food?
And who provides the capital for those shopowners to have food to sell?

Who spends the money, which goes to the company?

It's circulation, not a chicken-or-egg situation. Money needs to slosh back and forth for the economy to be healthy at all levels. When it gets plugged up in one place, things come to a halt... as we've seen.
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« Reply #70 on: January 25, 2012, 04:19:26 PM »

I have never been employed by a poor person. Thank God for everyone  including the rich. if you hate anyone you'd better consider where you want to spend eternity.
Not in company of CEO's, hopefully. Whores would make for  far better company.
are you basing the comparison on experience?
Yes.
I thought you were too pure to get involved with CEOs.
Only in a few occasions when i had no choice; plus we weren't on equal footing anyways, as i was working.
Evidently so were they, or you wouldn't be.
No, they weren't working, they were sacrificing to the altar of Satan while adopting children just to make them drink dirty water......

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« Reply #71 on: January 25, 2012, 04:20:06 PM »

Unlike the rest of you (most likely), I have a brother-in-law who has been, from time to time, a high level executive in various major corporations, including being CEO of a major energy firm. I am unwilling to rate his efforts towards getting into the kingdom, having not experienced them firsthand. In the running of the race, however, for all his other faults I suspect that Bill Gates is quite a ways ahead of Steve Jobs.
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« Reply #72 on: January 25, 2012, 04:21:00 PM »

Unlike the rest of you (most likely), I have a brother-in-law who has been, from time to time, a high level executive in various major corporations, including being CEO of a major energy firm. I am unwilling to rate his efforts towards getting into the kingdom, having not experienced them firsthand. In the running of the race, however, for all his other faults I suspect that Bill Gates is quite a ways ahead of Steve Jobs.
The same Steve jobs who was canonized here not too long ago?  laugh

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« Reply #73 on: January 25, 2012, 04:23:52 PM »

He was not. I'm sorry you just can't deal with the fact that a lot of people liked him. I guess he showed that you could be successful in business and still treat people well- what a shame, huh?  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #74 on: January 25, 2012, 04:25:12 PM »

He was not. I'm sorry you just can't deal with the fact that a lot of people liked him. I guess he showed that you could be successful in business and still treat people well- what a shame, huh?  Roll Eyes

It was a joke refrencing the Steve jobs thread after he died and some of the stuff that was said. Sorry if I did not make that apparent.

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« Reply #75 on: January 25, 2012, 04:26:20 PM »

Don't worry. I'm neither a wh--- or a CEO, but I'm not the first in line to get into Heaven, that's for sure.  Undecided Lips Sealed
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« Reply #76 on: January 25, 2012, 04:54:09 PM »

He was not. I'm sorry you just can't deal with the fact that a lot of people liked him. I guess he showed that you could be successful in business and still treat people well- what a shame, huh?  Roll Eyes

Steve Jobs?  I've never heard of him treating people well.  In fact, it was a horror to be employee, or his illegitimate child.

He was, however up front and frank, and made no pretense.
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« Reply #77 on: January 25, 2012, 04:56:26 PM »

He was not. I'm sorry you just can't deal with the fact that a lot of people liked him. I guess he showed that you could be successful in business and still treat people well- what a shame, huh?  Roll Eyes

Steve Jobs?  I've never heard of him treating people well.  In fact, it was a horror to be employee, or his illegitimate child.

He was, however up front and frank, and made no pretense.

He was apologetic about his child, and his employees must have shown an incredible amount of love for someone else- from the pictures of people lighting candles that we saw on the news, I thought it was him. Oh well.

Or do you really believe everything you hear on the talk shows? Trust me, most people are not that angry.
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« Reply #78 on: January 25, 2012, 04:58:47 PM »

I have never been employed by a poor person. Thank God for everyone  including the rich. if you hate anyone you'd better consider where you want to spend eternity.

People who own shops are employed by low-income people all the time. You know, the ones who buy food?
And who provides the capital for those shopowners to have food to sell?

Who spends the money, which goes to the company?

It's circulation, not a chicken-or-egg situation. Money needs to slosh back and forth for the economy to be healthy at all levels. When it gets plugged up in one place, things come to a halt... as we've seen.
Yes, it is a chicken-or-egg situation.  Shops don't pop out of nowhere, rise up out of the earth or fall from the sky.

Yes, having it plugged up in a rat hole makes everything come to a screetching halt.
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« Reply #79 on: January 25, 2012, 05:03:49 PM »

Money doesn't come from nowhere. People 'born with money' had families who got their money from somewhere. If they had a company that made money, that is because the public spent money with them, allowing them to pile up the results.

Again: circulation. Us horrible peasants ought to be grateful the rich overlords don't shut off the taps, because they were born with gold, or it fell out of the sky, and they have divine right like the kings used to.

How sad, you know- because when I was in school and we read Adam Smith, he sounded a lot more like me than you. Gradual tax system, still running fine for hundreds of years. You earn more, you pay more. Simple.

Honesty isn't popular today, though.
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« Reply #80 on: January 25, 2012, 05:06:59 PM »

Quote
How sad, you know- because when I was in school and we read Adam Smith, he sounded a lot more like me than you. Gradual tax system, still running fine for hundreds of years. You earn more, you pay more
The rich do pay more. Even with a flat tax they pay more. Bill Clinton, even if he was taxed at 1% would pay more than I do if I was taxed at 100%.

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« Reply #81 on: January 25, 2012, 05:13:38 PM »

He was not. I'm sorry you just can't deal with the fact that a lot of people liked him. I guess he showed that you could be successful in business and still treat people well- what a shame, huh?  Roll Eyes

Steve Jobs?  I've never heard of him treating people well.  In fact, it was a horror to be employee, or his illegitimate child.

He was, however up front and frank, and made no pretense.
He was apologetic about his child, and his employees must have shown an incredible amount of love for someone else- from the pictures of people lighting candles that we saw on the news, I thought it was him. Oh well.

really? they must have really loved this guy I guess
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrvIM1ENcbA
A lot of people admired him as a genius, not love him as a person.  Btw, a lot of his personality problems are not surprising, given his background.  He overcame that in some ways, in other ways not, or rather late.

Or do you really believe everything you hear on the talk shows?

From people in a position to know, and with no contrary evidence and plenty to support it (for example, his ouster from his own company), yes.

Trust me, most people are not that angry.
I didn't know that you knew Jobs personally.  Good you are here to clear the record.
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« Reply #82 on: January 25, 2012, 05:14:15 PM »

You do know what a proportion is, right? Sheer dollars are different from percentages--

Forget it.  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #83 on: January 25, 2012, 05:15:33 PM »

He was not. I'm sorry you just can't deal with the fact that a lot of people liked him. I guess he showed that you could be successful in business and still treat people well- what a shame, huh?  Roll Eyes

Steve Jobs?  I've never heard of him treating people well.  In fact, it was a horror to be employee, or his illegitimate child.

He was, however up front and frank, and made no pretense.
He was apologetic about his child, and his employees must have shown an incredible amount of love for someone else- from the pictures of people lighting candles that we saw on the news, I thought it was him. Oh well.

really? they must have really loved this guy I guess
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrvIM1ENcbA
A lot of people admired him as a genius, not love him as a person.  Btw, a lot of his personality problems are not surprising, given his background.  He overcame that in some ways, in other ways not, or rather late.

Or do you really believe everything you hear on the talk shows?

From people in a position to know, and with no contrary evidence and plenty to support it (for example, his ouster from his own company), yes.

Trust me, most people are not that angry.
I didn't know that you knew Jobs personally.  Good you are here to clear the record.

What was that about for the judgement you judge, you shall be judged?
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« Reply #84 on: January 25, 2012, 05:35:50 PM »

Money doesn't come from nowhere
many seem to think it does.
People 'born with money' had families who got their money from somewhere. If they had a company that made money, that is because the public spent money with them, allowing them to pile up the results.
And that company fell from the sky, and the public gave them their money for nothing. Roll Eyes

Take Mr. Jobs, for instance.  He started with nothing, not even his birth parents (whom he saw as a sperm and egg donor, not without reason, and with a little bitterness).  He was, however provided with adoptive parents (to whom, AFAIK, he was fiercely devoted, in the Fifth Commandment way), the machinist father teaching him rudimentary electronics and the accountant mother teaching him reading before he entered school.  That's all. No company, no money. Just hard work, and using talents.

Again: circulation. Us horrible peasants ought to be grateful the rich overlords don't shut off the taps, because they were born with gold, or it fell out of the sky, and they have divine right like the kings used to.
You seem to labor under the misunderstanding that the "rich overlords" (and how much do you have to make to qualify for that position?) stuff their money under a mattress.  What do you think they do with it?

How sad, you know- because when I was in school and we read Adam Smith, he sounded a lot more like me than you. Gradual tax system, still running fine for hundreds of years. You earn more, you pay more. Simple.
Simply wrong, as always.  The federal gradual tax system is not even a century old:established (or enabled) by the XVIth Amendment, it was promised that it would only affect the very rich, and would be at most 2%.  Didn't work out that way, so don't know what you mean by "still running fine."

Honesty isn't popular today, though.
evidently not.
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« Reply #85 on: January 25, 2012, 05:37:17 PM »

He was not. I'm sorry you just can't deal with the fact that a lot of people liked him. I guess he showed that you could be successful in business and still treat people well- what a shame, huh?  Roll Eyes

Steve Jobs?  I've never heard of him treating people well.  In fact, it was a horror to be employee, or his illegitimate child.

He was, however up front and frank, and made no pretense.
He was apologetic about his child, and his employees must have shown an incredible amount of love for someone else- from the pictures of people lighting candles that we saw on the news, I thought it was him. Oh well.

really? they must have really loved this guy I guess
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrvIM1ENcbA
A lot of people admired him as a genius, not love him as a person.  Btw, a lot of his personality problems are not surprising, given his background.  He overcame that in some ways, in other ways not, or rather late.

Or do you really believe everything you hear on the talk shows?

From people in a position to know, and with no contrary evidence and plenty to support it (for example, his ouster from his own company), yes.

Trust me, most people are not that angry.
I didn't know that you knew Jobs personally.  Good you are here to clear the record.

What was that about for the judgement you judge, you shall be judged?
What about it?
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« Reply #86 on: January 25, 2012, 05:38:43 PM »

You do know what a proportion is, right? Sheer dollars are different from percentages--
in either case, primuspilus has you.
Forget it.  Roll Eyes
that might be a good idea.
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« Reply #87 on: January 25, 2012, 05:39:23 PM »

You do know what a proportion is, right? Sheer dollars are different from percentages--

Forget it.  Roll Eyes
It doesn't matter. Nobody will be happy until the evil rich are driven out of the country. Keep dreaming this fool's dream. We need rich folks. Sorry.

Taxing the rich at 100% wont fix our ills. Taking everything the own in totality wont fix our ills.

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« Reply #88 on: January 25, 2012, 06:04:16 PM »

Could we talk some more about soiled doves?  This CEO talk is getting a little boring.
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« Reply #89 on: January 25, 2012, 08:50:46 PM »

You do know what a proportion is, right? Sheer dollars are different from percentages--

Forget it.  Roll Eyes
It doesn't matter. Nobody will be happy until the evil rich are driven out of the country. Keep dreaming this fool's dream. We need rich folks. Sorry.

Taxing the rich at 100% wont fix our ills. Taking everything the own in totality wont fix our ills.

Wanting the rich to pay tax at the same rate as the middle class isn't driving them out of the country.  Wanting to end entitlement programs for the rich isn't class warfare.   
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« Reply #90 on: January 25, 2012, 09:06:08 PM »

You do know what a proportion is, right? Sheer dollars are different from percentages--

Forget it.  Roll Eyes
It doesn't matter. Nobody will be happy until the evil rich are driven out of the country. Keep dreaming this fool's dream. We need rich folks. Sorry.

Taxing the rich at 100% wont fix our ills. Taking everything the own in totality wont fix our ills.

Wanting the rich to pay tax at the same rate as the middle class isn't driving them out of the country.  Wanting to end entitlement programs for the rich isn't class warfare.   
You mean dropping the rich from Medicare and Social Security?
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« Reply #91 on: January 26, 2012, 04:25:04 AM »

You do know what a proportion is, right? Sheer dollars are different from percentages--

Forget it.  Roll Eyes
It doesn't matter. Nobody will be happy until the evil rich are driven out of the country. Keep dreaming this fool's dream. We need rich folks. Sorry.

Taxing the rich at 100% wont fix our ills. Taking everything the own in totality wont fix our ills.

Wanting the rich to pay tax at the same rate as the middle class isn't driving them out of the country.  Wanting to end entitlement programs for the rich isn't class warfare.   
You mean dropping the rich from Medicare and Social Security?

No - I mean dropping tax breaks that drop their [the rich] rate below that of the middle class.  That's an entitlement. 
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« Reply #92 on: January 26, 2012, 10:01:03 AM »

Few things about politics are more tedious than discussions of who is more worthy to be taxed. And few things are more irrelevant to religion.

The more obvious point, the one that has anything whatsoever to do with (a) religion, and in particular (b) the title of this thread, is that CEOs are very much the people of power and prestige as the scribes, pharisees, rich men and all the others upon whom Jesus was heaping woes in the beatitudes. Or as He says in another place, "they have their reward already."
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« Reply #93 on: January 26, 2012, 11:39:40 AM »

Few things about politics are more tedious than discussions of who is more worthy to be taxed. And few things are more irrelevant to religion.

The more obvious point, the one that has anything whatsoever to do with (a) religion, and in particular (b) the title of this thread, is that CEOs are very much the people of power and prestige as the scribes, pharisees, rich men and all the others upon whom Jesus was heaping woes in the beatitudes. Or as He says in another place, "they have their reward already."

Yeah, but I think it is wrong to say a super broad general statement like "Whores will get to heaven before CEO's." That is simply a stupid comment.

EDIT: I think that it has nothing to do with the position of a person (CEO, rich person, poor person), but what you do with what God gives you.

PP
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« Reply #94 on: January 26, 2012, 01:01:22 PM »

Well, St. Mary of Egypt did get into Heaven. Can't think of any recent saints who owned companies, but then, they certainly could be in Heaven too.
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« Reply #95 on: January 26, 2012, 01:03:20 PM »

Well, St. Mary of Egypt did get into Heaven. Can't think of any recent saints who owned companies, but then, they certainly could be in Heaven too.
Im not saying that whores could not go to heaven. I would never say that. however, to say that CEO's wont go to heaven because they are a CEO, or stating they're put to the back of the line, is a stupid statement. Pure and simple. It is a moronic statement.

PP
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« Reply #96 on: January 26, 2012, 01:05:59 PM »

Well, St. Mary of Egypt did get into Heaven. Can't think of any recent saints who owned companies, but then, they certainly could be in Heaven too.
Im not saying that whores could not go to heaven. I would never say that. however, to say that CEO's wont go to heaven because they are a CEO, or stating they're put to the back of the line, is a stupid statement. Pure and simple. It is a moronic statement.

PP
Christ said it before, if it's stupid.
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« Reply #97 on: January 26, 2012, 01:13:20 PM »

Well, St. Mary of Egypt did get into Heaven. Can't think of any recent saints who owned companies, but then, they certainly could be in Heaven too.
Im not saying that whores could not go to heaven. I would never say that. however, to say that CEO's wont go to heaven because they are a CEO, or stating they're put to the back of the line, is a stupid statement. Pure and simple. It is a moronic statement.

PP
Christ said it before, if it's stupid.
No, He didn't.
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« Reply #98 on: January 26, 2012, 01:16:16 PM »

Well, St. Mary of Egypt did get into Heaven. Can't think of any recent saints who owned companies, but then, they certainly could be in Heaven too.
Im not saying that whores could not go to heaven. I would never say that. however, to say that CEO's wont go to heaven because they are a CEO, or stating they're put to the back of the line, is a stupid statement. Pure and simple. It is a moronic statement.

PP

Though it is worth noting that the Saints who were rich tend to be well known for giving much (if not all of it) away, or are Saints because they ended up getting martyred.  Just like the whores had to turn away from their lifestyles.  Christ told the adulteress to go away and sin no more.  He also told the rich man to give away all he owned and to follow him.
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« Reply #99 on: January 26, 2012, 01:17:33 PM »

Well, St. Mary of Egypt did get into Heaven. Can't think of any recent saints who owned companies, but then, they certainly could be in Heaven too.
Im not saying that whores could not go to heaven. I would never say that. however, to say that CEO's wont go to heaven because they are a CEO, or stating they're put to the back of the line, is a stupid statement. Pure and simple. It is a moronic statement.

PP

Though it is worth noting that the Saints who were rich tend to be well known for giving much (if not all of it) away, or are Saints because they ended up getting martyred.  Just like the whores had to turn away from their lifestyles.  Christ told the adulteress to go away and sin no more.  He also told the rich man to give away all he owned and to follow him.

True.
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« Reply #100 on: January 26, 2012, 01:22:22 PM »

Correct. The comment, "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter the kingdom of God" had nothing to do with what he had, but because many rich folks rely on their riches rather than God. It had nothing to do with him being a rich person per se.

I would like to not, please be careful about damning all rich people....we have saints that were not only rich, but were the richest people on Earth at the time.

PP
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« Reply #101 on: January 27, 2012, 12:26:18 AM »

Few things about politics are more tedious than discussions of who is more worthy to be taxed. And few things are more irrelevant to religion.

The more obvious point, the one that has anything whatsoever to do with (a) religion, and in particular (b) the title of this thread, is that CEOs are very much the people of power and prestige as the scribes, pharisees, rich men and all the others upon whom Jesus was heaping woes in the beatitudes. Or as He says in another place, "they have their reward already."

Yeah, but I think it is wrong to say a super broad general statement like "Whores will get to heaven before CEO's." That is simply a stupid comment.

It's a super broad statement because you are reading it super-broadly.
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« Reply #102 on: January 27, 2012, 12:46:48 PM »

Few things about politics are more tedious than discussions of who is more worthy to be taxed. And few things are more irrelevant to religion.

The more obvious point, the one that has anything whatsoever to do with (a) religion, and in particular (b) the title of this thread, is that CEOs are very much the people of power and prestige as the scribes, pharisees, rich men and all the others upon whom Jesus was heaping woes in the beatitudes. Or as He says in another place, "they have their reward already."

Yeah, but I think it is wrong to say a super broad general statement like "Whores will get to heaven before CEO's." That is simply a stupid comment.

It's a super broad statement because you are reading it super-broadly.

Because it is a super broad statement.

PP
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« Reply #103 on: January 27, 2012, 12:55:24 PM »

One more damning thing from CEO's : while whores do not seek/have social recognition/honors etc, they do seek and have it. So,  that drives them even further away from the kingdom.
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« Reply #104 on: January 27, 2012, 12:58:49 PM »

One more damning thing from CEO's : while whores do not seek/have social recognition/honors etc, they do seek and have it. So,  that drives them even further away from the kingdom.
So if you're the CEO of a brothel, does that mean it cancels itself out and a black hole swallows the Earth?

PP
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« Reply #105 on: January 27, 2012, 02:13:16 PM »

One more damning thing from CEO's : while whores do not seek/have social recognition/honors etc, they do seek and have it. So,  that drives them even further away from the kingdom.
Do you know any CEOs personally?
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« Reply #106 on: January 27, 2012, 02:17:24 PM »

One more damning thing from CEO's : while whores do not seek/have social recognition/honors etc, they do seek and have it. So,  that drives them even further away from the kingdom.
Do you know any CEOs personally?
I think earlier augustin said yes, but that doesn't excuse probably the most ridiculous statement I have ever read on this forum.

PP
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« Reply #107 on: January 27, 2012, 02:32:22 PM »

One more damning thing from CEO's : while whores do not seek/have social recognition/honors etc, they do seek and have it. So,  that drives them even further away from the kingdom.
So if you're the CEO of a brothel, does that mean it cancels itself out and a black hole swallows the Earth?

PP

No, in this instance I am sure the CEO is not actually working...
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« Reply #108 on: January 27, 2012, 02:33:15 PM »

One more damning thing from CEO's : while whores do not seek/have social recognition/honors etc, they do seek and have it. So,  that drives them even further away from the kingdom.
So if you're the CEO of a brothel, does that mean it cancels itself out and a black hole swallows the Earth?

PP

No, in this instance I am sure the CEO is not actually working...

 laugh laugh
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« Reply #109 on: February 11, 2012, 02:12:37 PM »

Anyone see the superb documentary the corporation? In it they clarify that it is the form the institution has taken that they find immoral, not the people that work there. They even show an enviromenaly minded Ceo who works for a huge enviromengally destructive oil corporation.
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« Reply #110 on: February 11, 2012, 02:21:45 PM »

One more damning thing from CEO's : while whores do not seek/have social recognition/honors etc, they do seek and have it.
Evidently you haven't heard of the Mayflower Madame, the Hollywood Whore, Spitzer's playmate, etc.  Plenty of whores seek social recognition/honors, and even worse, some get it.  Look at Madonna, Paris Hilton, etc...
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« Reply #111 on: February 11, 2012, 10:05:36 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Few things about politics are more tedious than discussions of who is more worthy to be taxed. And few things are more irrelevant to religion.

The more obvious point, the one that has anything whatsoever to do with (a) religion, and in particular (b) the title of this thread, is that CEOs are very much the people of power and prestige as the scribes, pharisees, rich men and all the others upon whom Jesus was heaping woes in the beatitudes. Or as He says in another place, "they have their reward already."

Well, St. Mary of Egypt did get into Heaven. Can't think of any recent saints who owned companies, but then, they certainly could be in Heaven too.
Im not saying that whores could not go to heaven. I would never say that. however, to say that CEO's wont go to heaven because they are a CEO, or stating they're put to the back of the line, is a stupid statement. Pure and simple. It is a moronic statement.

PP

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But Jesus again replying, said to them, Children, how difficult is it for those who have confidence in riches to enter into the kingdom of God
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I won't comment on the taxes issue, but the idea of the exuberance and idolization of wealth, particularly in America, is quite contrary to the spirit of both the Church and the Gospels.  Folks can be wealthy to be sure, but lets not suddenly give all the wealthy an instant benefit of the doubt when it really is the opposite, folks with such ridiculous wealth in a global economy based largely on anti-Christian values of greed and exploitation most definitely need to openly demonstrate their Christianity.  I pray for them and us all, but the excesses of wealth in American society is definitely a valid religious issue.

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« Reply #112 on: February 12, 2012, 04:47:04 AM »

This is only a curiosity type question. Has the topic of this thread, Matthew 21: 28-32 been discussed prior to the split? Is it innately incompatible to compare chief priests to chief executive officers?
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« Reply #113 on: February 12, 2012, 06:20:07 PM »

One more damning thing from CEO's : while whores do not seek/have social recognition/honors etc, they do seek and have it. So,  that drives them even further away from the kingdom.
So if you're the CEO of a brothel, does that mean it cancels itself out and a black hole swallows the Earth?

PP

Whorehouse CEOs: dividing by zero since c. 3000 BC.
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« Reply #114 on: February 12, 2012, 11:32:44 PM »

One more damning thing from CEO's : while whores do not seek/have social recognition/honors etc, they do seek and have it. So,  that drives them even further away from the kingdom.
Do you know any CEOs personally?

Actually, yes.  I prefer the whores.  They are generally much nicer people.  As with everything, there are exceptions.
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« Reply #115 on: March 13, 2012, 08:18:24 AM »

We become angry with CEOs because they cheat people to make their money. Such anger is justifiable. But who did Jesus spend His time with? Prostitutes and tax collectors. What did tax collectors do? They cheated people to make money.

Perhaps it would be better to recognize that there's nothing wrong with the position of a CEO or even with a corporation, but that everything is wrong with the people who make up those positions and companies. This rings true whether you live in a capitalist society or a communist society.
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« Reply #116 on: March 13, 2012, 10:31:40 AM »

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We become angry with CEOs because they cheat people to make their money
Ah, so all CEO's cheat folks out of money. I hate to topple you from your hill, but EVERYONE cheats EVERYONE out of money. position does not matter. If you walk out of a store and the clerk forgets to scan an item, and you leave with it without paying, you're just as guilty as a CEO fudging numbers for stock prices.

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What did tax collectors do? They cheated people to make money.
No, they were sinners.

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Perhaps it would be better to recognize that there's nothing wrong with the position of a CEO or even with a corporation, but that everything is wrong with the people who make up those positions and companies
There are good ones and bad ones. Just like everyone else, everywhere else.


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« Reply #117 on: March 13, 2012, 11:31:31 AM »

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Ah, so all CEO's cheat folks out of money. I hate to topple you from your hill, but EVERYONE cheats EVERYONE out of money. position does not matter. If you walk out of a store and the clerk forgets to scan an item, and you leave with it without paying, you're just as guilty as a CEO fudging numbers for stock prices.
We hold the statement above to be self-evident BS.
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« Reply #118 on: March 13, 2012, 11:33:05 AM »

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Ah, so all CEO's cheat folks out of money. I hate to topple you from your hill, but EVERYONE cheats EVERYONE out of money. position does not matter. If you walk out of a store and the clerk forgets to scan an item, and you leave with it without paying, you're just as guilty as a CEO fudging numbers for stock prices.
We hold the statement above to be self-evident BS.
Sin is sin is sin. Humans make distinctions.

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« Reply #119 on: March 13, 2012, 07:01:34 PM »

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We become angry with CEOs because they cheat people to make their money
Ah, so all CEO's cheat folks out of money. I hate to topple you from your hill, but EVERYONE cheats EVERYONE out of money. position does not matter. If you walk out of a store and the clerk forgets to scan an item, and you leave with it without paying, you're just as guilty as a CEO fudging numbers for stock prices.

Quote
What did tax collectors do? They cheated people to make money.
No, they were sinners.

Quote
Perhaps it would be better to recognize that there's nothing wrong with the position of a CEO or even with a corporation, but that everything is wrong with the people who make up those positions and companies
There are good ones and bad ones. Just like everyone else, everywhere else.


PP

I think you jumped the proverbial gun way too quickly here. I wasn't condemning CEOs who are rich; I apologize for a lack of clarity on my part. What I meant to type was that some CEOs cheat people out of money. To say that we all cheat people out of money is a bit extreme (as would any statement including "all" in it). Many people, even some rich CEOs, earn money honestly. What I was pointing out, however, is that even those who become rich through ill-gotten means aren't the demons that we make them out to be; Christ still dined with people like these.

Also, to say "no" to my point about tax collectors cheating people out of their money is a bit reactionary in my opinion. It's like saying that the Civil War was fought over state's rights. While technically true, exactly what were those rights concerning (to own slaves)? Likewise, while true that the tax collectors were sinners, what was their sin? It was cheating people out of their income.

I don't think there is any need for a heated response or a "shoot from the hip" response on this. I was simply pointing out that CEOs who make millions by robbing other people aren't any better or any worse than anyone else; all are welcome to the table of Christ should they choose to repent.
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« Reply #120 on: March 13, 2012, 11:39:58 PM »

This thread needs a theme song:

The Coup - 5 Million Ways to Kill a C.E.O. (Those with afraid of dancing or language heard outside a Mormon Temple should not click.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQthFDpYCys

p.s. Yes, I know this has been posted on the board before.
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« Reply #121 on: March 14, 2012, 12:13:11 AM »

orthonorm where is that link to an article regarding how ancient our 40-hour work week schedule is. I can't find it, but thought it was brilliant.
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« Reply #122 on: March 14, 2012, 01:26:51 AM »

This is one of the worst threads I've ever read on OC.net. 

I'm actually overwhelmed as to what to reply to.

I'll try to stick to a point I actually know:  Steve Jobs, may he rest in peace, was extraordinarily arrogant and unpleasant to many (some would say all) who worked for and with him.  Source? Plenty of people who worked directly for and with him and, to a lesser extent, me.  This ain't talk show sourcing.

Many prostitutes I've known have been unpleasant and thoroughly sinful people.  Let's not pretend they're all nice, while the fat cats are all evil. I feel really horrible for many though, as they've ended up in such horrible situations.  I had to include that statement for those of you who would miss the point of my previous comment.  Oh, and plenty would probably count me as an unpleasant person, so I'm not "judging" ( Cheesy) but relaying observations. May they repent and be healed (same goes for me).

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Well, St. Mary of Egypt did get into Heaven.

I take issue with implying that St. Mary of Egypt got into heaven as a prostitute.  I know what was meant, but this is isn't a proper argument.  Firstly, she is not universally believed to have been a prostitute ("sensuous passions" leaves room for interpretation).  Far more importantly, she was a thoroughly transformed person from her "early days."  That argument is akin to saying: "Well St. Paul got into heaven, so pharisees are saints." 

Simultaneously, using Christian authority to blindly defend the amassing of fortunes is silly.  I think the proof texting on both sides is lousy.  The scriptures are clear that not caring for the poor is bad.  Some CEO's have done more for the poor than many of us would.

Lastly, why is it so hard for us to avoid making calculations of condemnation and assessing who we like/don't like or think is sinning, etc.  I frequently find it enjoyable, but I also acknowledge that this is unhelpful/sinful behavior.  Let the wind up merchant, Augustin' throw out his comments, but let's not follow up with un-Christian assessments.  There's my lecturing for the day.  police

 
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« Reply #123 on: March 14, 2012, 01:39:45 AM »

We become angry with CEOs because they cheat people to make their money. Such anger is justifiable. But who did Jesus spend His time with? Prostitutes and tax collectors. What did tax collectors do? They cheated people to make money.

Precisely!  

All are sinners; all should repent.  

Quote
Perhaps it would be better to recognize that there's nothing wrong with the position of a CEO or even with a corporation, but that everything is wrong with the people who make up those positions and companies. This rings true whether you live in a capitalist society or a communist society.

Sin is not tied to a job title.  There are CEO's of companies, non-profits, etc. who make very little and contribute very much.  There are CEOs who make a great deal, but give a tremendous amount away.  I know that "CEO" is being used in this case as a catch-all for meanie rich boss people, but a little more precision can't hurt.
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« Reply #124 on: March 14, 2012, 01:40:36 AM »

orthonorm where is that link to an article regarding how ancient our 40-hour work week schedule is. I can't find it, but thought it was brilliant.

Blanking, if you are being serious. Unless you are referring to the stuff by Bob Black.
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« Reply #125 on: March 14, 2012, 08:46:58 AM »

orthonorm where is that link to an article regarding how ancient our 40-hour work week schedule is. I can't find it, but thought it was brilliant.

Blanking, if you are being serious. Unless you are referring to the stuff by Bob Black.
Ah I got it, it was the abolition of work:

http://deoxy.org/endwork.htm
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« Reply #126 on: March 14, 2012, 09:35:08 AM »

Quote
I think you jumped the proverbial gun way too quickly here. I wasn't condemning CEOs who are rich; I apologize for a lack of clarity on my part. What I meant to type was that some CEOs cheat people out of money.
I appreciate your clarification. I also agree with this statement.

Quote
To say that we all cheat people out of money is a bit extreme (as would any statement including "all" in it). Many people, even some rich CEOs, earn money honestly. What I was pointing out, however, is that even those who become rich through ill-gotten means aren't the demons that we make them out to be; Christ still dined with people like these
True, there are many who got rich by cheating others out of their money. I would still use my example from earlier. Knowingly walking out of a store with something you did not pay for because the clerk did not scan it is cheating that place out of money.

However, I more respond to some folks on here who have a hatred of all folks that have more than they do.

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Sin is not tied to a job title.  There are CEO's of companies, non-profits, etc. who make very little and contribute very much.  There are CEOs who make a great deal, but give a tremendous amount away.  I know that "CEO" is being used in this case as a catch-all for meanie rich boss people, but a little more precision can't hurt
Thats the truth. I know our CEO gave away his bonus to the employees because we didn't get one. Although thats not the best example, it is still a good gesture, and something not many would do.

PP
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