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Author Topic: Lisbon turns away 'abortion ship'  (Read 3643 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: August 31, 2004, 09:25:08 PM »

Lisbon turns away 'abortion ship'
 
Women on Waves Foundation have vowed not to leave Portugal  

A Dutch boat made into a floating abortion clinic vowed to stay just outside of Portuguese waters after it has been refused permission by Lisbon to enter the nation's territorial waters.

Rebecca Gomperts, the doctor who in 1999 founded the Women on Waves Foundation which manages the clinic, said on Saturday the ship would stay in international waters until it found a way to carry out its intended mission.

"The ship is not going to leave, it is going to stay there," she told a televised news conference in the central Portuguese city of Coimbra. "We are here with the intention to help Portuguese women and we will do all we can to do that," she added.

The ship requested permission late on Friday to dock in the northern port of Figueira da Foz where it planned to stay for two weeks to hand out abortion pills to women with unwanted pregnancies of up to six-and-a-half weeks. But Portugal's centre-right government earlier on Saturday refused to give the vessel permission to enter national waters arguing the measure was intended to ensure the staunchly Roman Catholic country's laws against abortion were respected.

"It is a question of legality and not of morality," Secretary of State for Sea Affairs, Nuno Fernandes Thomaz, told national news agency Lusa. "If we accept that third parties come and violate our laws it would become much more difficult to impose authority amongst the Portuguese."

It is the first time that the ship, which visited Ireland in 2001 and Poland two years later, has been refused entry into a country. The vessel is currently off the coast of northern Spain, not far from the Portuguese border.

Abortion is banned in Portugal except when the mother's life is in danger, or in certain specified conditions such as the risk of damage to physical or mental health, sexual violence or possible congenital deformity. Family planning agencies estimate between 20,000 and 40,000 illegal abortions, some of them fatal, are carried out in Portugal each year. Thousands more women go abroad each year to terminate their unwanted pregnancies.

Polls show a majority of Portuguese favour a loosening of the nation's abortion laws, which are among the most conservative in Europe. But in March Portugal's centre-right government used its slim majority in parliament to vote down proposals by left-wing parties which would have eased access to abortion.

The Social Democratic Party has given its junior coalition partner, the right-wing Popular Party, assurances that it would not modify the law nor call a referendum on the question before the end of its mandate in 2006.


AFP

You can find this article at:
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/572A1B0B-EF37-457A-B6C0-86B705345FE1.htm
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« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2004, 09:29:16 PM »

Someone should blow that ship up.
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« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2004, 09:33:41 PM »

As far as I'm concerned, that ship ought to be blown out of the water as soon as it leaves shore and has let its victims go.  However, I'm not so sure quoting the article from that slime machine Al Jazeera helps convey the gravity of the abortion problem.
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« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2004, 09:34:19 PM »

In Poland these guys were stoned with eggs and apples. Smiley) Has anyone seen those women, who run the ship? They all look like men!!! It's scary.  Boze zmiluj sie nad nami.
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« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2004, 09:35:09 PM »

You beat me to it, Anastasios.  I say we blow the ship up at least twice to really get the message across.
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« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2004, 03:51:10 AM »

Father, forgive them for they know not what they do.

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« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2004, 10:37:13 AM »

I just spent the last 1/2 hour looking up these "people" on the web...  EVIL personified.
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« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2004, 10:41:56 AM »

Father, forgive them for they know not what they do.
  -Luke 23:34

Dude. They know EXACTLY what they are doing.

From their website:

Is this a WAR?

Sunday, 29-08-04 17:00; After receiving no response from the harbour authorities to repeated requests for permission to enter, Ms Borndiep slowly started to sail for the coast. Within minutes, the portugese Navy appeared at the horizon and ordered the captain to immediately stop moving. Or else...


So? Last I heard a COUNTRY still has the RIGHT to decide WHO/WHAT enters its waters.

http://www.womenonwaves.org/
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« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2004, 11:25:18 AM »

How about taking a page form the left wing's playbook. Let's bomb the ship with blood!

Get one of those flying tankers used to fight forest fires, fill it with bllod from a slaughtering operation and just douse that thing.

That would make a much better picture for the international media than a sunken ship and claims of "Right-Wing Religious Radicals" being the cause.
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« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2004, 01:50:20 PM »

Has anyone seen those women, who run the ship? They all look like men!!! It's scary.

I'm amazed that anyone would put their health in the hands of Popeye and a harem of sea hags.
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« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2004, 02:05:06 PM »

Tom,

a) I think Andreas was referring to the women who would procure abortions via this ship.

and b) I'm sure that those evil Catholics there have some sort of agenda for doing this other than the obvious.
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« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2004, 03:11:04 PM »

Tom,
...
and b) I'm sure that those evil Catholics there have some sort of agenda for doing this other than the obvious.  

No. I believe that the Catholic Church has SOME remains of Orthodoxy in it - or it could not so easily mislead so many faithful
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« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2004, 10:32:17 AM »

Lefties/egalitarians/anarchists and their causes.  They are the most self hating people, and true enemies of mankind; you see it in their stupid feminism, their false egalitarnianism, man-hating vegetarianism, endless prattling about "children's rights" (as opposed to parental responsibility), etc.  Basically, bored privileged white folks with too much time on their hands, and souls desiring a cause worth dying for, but finding only idols.

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« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2004, 12:39:46 PM »

The organisors were told they would not be allowed to enter Porugal's waters as their activities were contrary to Portugese law.

The seas were so rough that not one visitor was able to transfer to the ship from vessels putting out from the local harbour. Consequently the vessel returned to its home port in the Netherlands.

Prayer rather than some 'hothead' action appears to have been more effective in turning this vessel and its malevolent purpose away............
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« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2004, 04:34:28 PM »

Someone should blow that ship up.
While I can sympathize with your revulsion against such a ship, your suggestion would simply make martyrs of the evil ones running this ship, and what you are proposing, frankly sounds like something which Eric Rudolph would approve of.  I would expect calls for blowing up that ship to come more from the audience of the website which published this story (al-jazeera) except that they probably see it as a way of preventing the birth of a greater number of western infidels.  Better that the ship should merely be turned away in disgrace, or better yet, destroyed by more natural means, such as it hitting a rock or sinking in a storm.  I don't think that in today's climate, we need any more terrorist bombings, no matter what the cause.
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« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2004, 05:15:15 PM »

Better that the ship should merely be turned away in disgrace, or better yet, destroyed by more natural means, such as it hitting a rock or sinking in a storm.

Blowing the ship up is merely the extension of natural means by other means, I say.
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« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2004, 10:14:05 AM »

And someone else with a different value base decides that anothers actions are equally heinous and so justifies to themselves similar direct action, and then another and another. This is why the Merciful God has given us a lawful authority to restrain such lawlessness. To find people who will elsewhere engage in complex and mature debate on other issues descending to this level of what someone has called 'apopletic christianity' is very troubling. Such unbridled passion is contrary to Orthodox teaching.

Metropolitan Augustinos of Florina - the eldest of the Church of Greece's bishops - preaches very strictly and invokes the full rigour of church discipline on those involved in this heinous practice but I have never heard him even begin to speak or write in such a disturbing way.

No-one blew up or attempted to blow up this vessel. It went with the high hopes of its deluded sponsors to Portugal and was kept out of her national waters. Without unlawful force they failed to get even a single visitor. A criminal or terrorist act would probably overturned the fragile majority Portugal has against changing their current extremely strict law against abortion. The strictest in all of Europe.
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« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2004, 04:05:48 PM »

To find people who will elsewhere engage in complex and mature debate on other issues descending to this level of what someone has called 'apopletic christianity' is very troubling. Such unbridled passion is contrary to Orthodox teaching.

I guess an unbridled sense of humor has become unOrthodox as well.  Lighten up, man.  Sheesh  Smiley
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« Reply #18 on: September 14, 2004, 05:24:47 PM »

I don't think that in today's climate, we need any more terrorist bombings, no matter what the cause.

Good call, theodore.

It's fairly obvious to me that no one on this site who expresses the "someone should blow the ---- out of that boat" view would seriously consider doing so if given the chance...at least, I hope not...but the desire expressed is hardly one of charity.
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« Reply #19 on: September 14, 2004, 10:45:46 PM »

Not just any bombing qualifies as a terrorist bombing.  The intent behind an act of terrorism is just that... to terrorize the living in the hope they will be coerced into political or ideological concessions.  Advocating the destruction of an abortion ship to stop infanticide doesn't qualify as an act of terrorism, although if the ship is occupied, and people die, it could be called an act of murder.  This is really a leap of moral equivocation to suggest anyone in this board has the mind of a terrorist for desiring the obliteration of a human butcher shop on the high seas.
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« Reply #20 on: September 15, 2004, 06:31:44 PM »

Strelets, I have seen and heard similar justifications for their actions by the Animal Liberation Front and others. Each and every one of these groups is according their 'twisted' form of logic to 'justify' action which to the rest of us is simply terrorism, murder or criminal harassment.

My sense of humour is intact, albeit sometimes a little boisterous. However I repeat my earlier offering that many of the postings here are intemperate and may turn away from the Gospel someone who is searching for something - as yet unknown to them - which their heart yearns for. (Remembering the years of bomings and shootings I HAVE BEEN SURROUNDED BY, EACH CARRIED OUT BY ONE PARAMILITARY GROUP OR OTHER, ALL CLAIMING THAT THEY DEFEND TRUE CHRISTIANITY. So forgive me if I do not find the suggestions of bombing or blowing up a vessel funny. Too many tears, funerals and hours spent looking around and under my car to see if some righteous soul had targetted my car that day! I also worked in a hospital in Brighton on the day the whole Brit government was nearly killed by a bomb placed in their Brighton hotel).

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« Reply #21 on: September 15, 2004, 10:34:37 PM »

Strelets, I have seen and heard similar justifications for their actions by the Animal Liberation Front and others. Each and every one of these groups is according their 'twisted' form of logic to 'justify' action which to the rest of us is simply terrorism, murder or criminal harassment.

I'd probably not qualify letting baboons loose from a Gillette test lab as terrorism.  Could be considered vandalism, but not terrorism.  However, burning down ski resorts in an attempt to intimidate people from constructing in the Colorado Rockies would qualify as terrorism.  There's a textbook definition of terrorism that shouldn't be flouted for the sake of conveying one's emotional leanings on a subject of discussion.  I've been in enough of these abortion debates where pro-life Orthodox get assailed by a minority of pro-choice within the Orthodox fold (getting tarred as "doctor killers" and "fundamentalist fanatics") that any use of emotionally charged language begins to wear thin.  It's fair to encourage your brothers and sisters to reconsider their choice of language in light-hearted discussion, but let's refrain from uncharitable words against them of advocating terrorism when that's not what's being promoted.
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« Reply #22 on: September 16, 2004, 05:14:07 AM »

Why blow up a perfectly good ship that could later be used for much better purposes, especially since it presumably has full medical facilities on board. Much better to let them go bankrupt and buy the ship off them for a song then sail around providing free cancer diagnosis and aids treatment Smiley
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« Reply #23 on: September 16, 2004, 01:30:21 PM »

Why blow up a perfectly good ship that could later be used for much better purposes, especially since it presumably has full medical facilities on board. Much better to let them go bankrupt and buy the ship off them for a song then sail around providing free cancer diagnosis and aids treatment Smiley
Now THIS is a sane idea.  Why pollute the ocean bottom with another rusting hulk oozing fuel oil into the environment, all the mean time giving the pro-abortion groups more sympathy and strength due to being victims of violent anti-abortion extremists.  The bombings of abortion clinics by Eric Rudolph et al served only to strengthen the pro-abortion cause, and to weaken the anti-abortion cause by taking away their moral high ground.  Murder is still murder.  This abortion ship is merely a gimmick, and an expensive one at that.  Unsuccesful journies, like their abortive attempt to reach Portugal, will hopefully drain their coffers of funds, thus leading to the ship being used for a more noble purpose by some other group.
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« Reply #24 on: September 16, 2004, 03:27:35 PM »

Not just any bombing qualifies as a terrorist bombing.  The intent behind an act of terrorism is just that... to terrorize the living in the hope they will be coerced into political or ideological concessions.

Would the blowing up of the ship not be just that?  You are destroying the vessel in the hopes that this will intimidate future abortionists from setting up shop in international waters, something that, though sinful, is a perfectly legal thing to do.

They are free to do this, sadly.  Destroying their ships would not only make them martyrs, as has been said, but would be (by your own definition) an act of terrorism: an act of destruction by people who think they know better and who want to stop the evildoers from continuing in their atrocity.
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« Reply #25 on: September 16, 2004, 05:23:31 PM »

It would be terrorism if the stated goal was to frighten others out of their pro-choice ideology, but I've not read anyone stating such.  I'd blow the ship up to stop the butchering of babies on board.  It'd be no more a terrorist act than demolishing a crack house downtown.  Of course, since we're dallying in hypothetical fantasies, I'd have the commandos first evacuate the sea hags and Popeye and then blow the vessel to smithereens.
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« Reply #26 on: September 16, 2004, 05:37:55 PM »

Pedro, the Animal Liberation Front this side of the pond is literally a terrorist organisation, and has long graduated from 'liberating' animals from vivisectionists laboratories. They firebomb etc., etc., openly stating that they are waging a war and the deaths and maiming of humans has to be 'balanced' against the many animals harmed. The problem has become so great investors, banks and insurers have pulled out and the state has had to step in and become an insurer of last resort. The Brit Special Branch and Tony Blair certainly regard them as very dangerous 'terrorists'.

Thank you for allowing an opportunity to restate an earlier point, they will be no end of groups all with - to them - an unanswerable justification for their murderous behaviour. (And you meat eaters beware they aren't just agin vivisectionists!).

(What really tees me off was that half the 'Irish' terrorists including those who targetted Margeret Thatcher's government at Brighton were funded largely by Americans; while other Americans pressured the Brit government to 'soften' their response to IRA activity, and at the same time deflected any critizism of the significantly more robust response of the Israeli Defence Forces).
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« Reply #27 on: September 16, 2004, 06:32:02 PM »

I'd blow the ship up to stop the butchering of babies on board.

So...how is that different from blowing up abortion clinics?  You're not advocating that, right?

Quote
...It'd be no more a terrorist act than demolishing a crack house downtown.

Complete with crackheads inside?
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« Reply #28 on: September 16, 2004, 10:44:07 PM »

So...how is that different from blowing up abortion clinics?  You're not advocating that, right?

Sorry, that tactic's not going to work.  I can turn the tables back on you and say because you don't want to destroy an abortion ship that you're against destroying slave ships or any mode of transportation used for killing or inflicting massive human misery.  Ok, so someone can make a rational argument that we can convert the ship's hull into scrap metal.  Very well, then.  We can also convert the bricks of an abortion clinic to pave the potholes in the inner city.

Quote
...It'd be no more a terrorist act than demolishing a crack house downtown.
Complete with crackheads inside?

Dude, you've ignored the entirety of what I have posted.  Notice in the next sentence I wrote... "Of course, since we're dallying in hypothetical fantasies, I'd have the commandos first evacuate the sea hags and Popeye and then blow the vessel to smithereens."  In reply #19 I wrote, "Advocating the destruction of an abortion ship to stop infanticide doesn't qualify as an act of terrorism, although if the ship is occupied, and people die, it could be called an act of murder."

Anyone else notice how the word "terrorist" is rapidly replacing "Nazi" as the choice of net slur?
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« Reply #29 on: September 17, 2004, 06:22:05 AM »

Well, first to deal with what you said later:

Dude, you've ignored the entirety of what I have posted.  Notice in the next sentence I wrote...I'd have the commandos first evacuate the sea hags and Popeye and then blow the vessel to smithereens."

Ah.  Yes.  Sorry.   Embarrassed  Now that it's established that I was, indeed, a careless yahoo regarding what you had posted, the part that came first --

Quote
Sorry, that tactic's not going to work.  I can turn the tables back on you and say because you don't want to destroy an abortion ship that you're against destroying slave ships or any mode of transportation used for killing or inflicting massive human misery.

-- doesn't really work with me, as 1) the slave ships were not borded voluntarily in the first place, whereas the abortion ship was/is, and 2) it's not really necessary to destroy the ship because a) it's a perfectly good ship!  Use the ship!  And b) blockade it!  If you can get enough people to close their harbors to them until they agree to stop this, you've done this without firing a shot.

As for the assumption proved wrong, in my defense, the tone of the "blowing up" of the boat from posters never mentioned taking the people off first, though this is the humane difference between us and terrorists.   I think, as you mentioned, everyone's got "terrorism on the brain," so our minds immediately jump from "blowing up something that can house people" to "blowing it up with the people inside."  An assumption, yes, and we know what those make, but given the current situation it makes sense that that's how we'd think.

Sorry again for the negligence on my part.
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« Reply #30 on: September 17, 2004, 05:27:29 PM »

Quote
Pedro, the Animal Liberation Front this side of the pond is literally a terrorist organisation, and has long graduated from 'liberating' animals from vivisectionists laboratories. They firebomb etc., etc., openly stating that they are waging a war and the deaths and maiming of humans has to be 'balanced' against the many animals harmed. The problem has become so great investors, banks and insurers have pulled out and the state has had to step in and become an insurer of last resort. The Brit Special Branch and Tony Blair certainly regard them as very dangerous 'terrorists'.

LoL!!! We also have these same kind of "sewer" groups on our side of the pond also. Groups like Peta, ACLU, Earth Liberation Front, & of course the various abortion racketeer groups etc....It's funny these poeple scream about the injustices being done to monkeys, mice, & chickens, but these are the same people that yell about the current adiministration & the "religious right" taking away a womens right to choose. In thier twisted minds a mouse or chicken has much more value to them than a human being. If these left wing "terrorist" groups would go back to the gutter they came from it would be an improvement. Alot of these organizations have ties to communist leaders outside this country & they are trying to undermine our country on purpose. If it were me, I would bust these communist front groups under RICO statutes & put the leadership in jail for many years for sabotage  & sedition.
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