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Author Topic: Woman Suffrage  (Read 5355 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: September 20, 2004, 06:32:51 PM »

Women today are given the right to vote.  What woman suffrage does is abrogate the will and plan of Almighty God.  Woman suffrage is feminism.  The Christian churches, Protestant, Catholic and Orthodox, are especially quiet on this subject.   When England and America, reestablished Greek self government, men only voted.  Only until the agitation of socialist and communist and Jewish influence that women  were taught to claim a right to vote. On the contrary, women are to be forbidden to vote.  Women are not be leaders.  Women were not made by God to be in charge.  What woman suffrage does is put women in charge of men.

St. Paul says, ‘Women are to keep silent in the churches”.  If they are silent in the churches, they must be silent in the political realm.  Leadership is male as is the title of the book by J. David Pawson, “Leadership is Male, A Clear, Concise Look at What the Bible Teaches”.

First, where does this idea come from that women can and should vote.  It comes from J.S. Mills who was the philosopher for women rights.  He was a god-hater and anti-Christian.  It is also socialist and communist ideology.  It is not Christian. When America was a Christian country, women did not vote.  Communism and socialism took root in America; the first foundation being the Owen Farm in Pennsylvania in 1825.  By1880, there were over 200 socialist and communist organizations in America which ended up with fomenting social revolution among women especially the woman suffrage.  The continual and persistent agitation by ungodly forces in America (and elsewhere), led to the XIX amendment (woman suffrage) being passed on August 18, 1920.

In a survey of the Kennedy Presidential election a lot of women voted for Kennedy.  Their main reason was because “He was Handsome”.  Do men vote for leaders, because they are handsome?

Woman suffrage in Europe was essential to the rise of leftism and democracy throughout Europe.  Konrad Heiden, in “Der Fuehrer”, quotes Hitler as saying, “Reason can treacherously deceive a man, emotion is sure and never leaves him”.  It was a cardinal rule of Hitler of this maxim that “the masses (must be brought) into a condition in which they were conscious of a goal, but uncritical.  Go to the masses! he cried to his discharged lieutenants, professors, and bank clerks.”GǪ “(Hitler quote:) ‘The key to the heart of the people is not ‘if you please’, but power.’’ In this the masses are like women: (Hitler quote:) ‘It is not for nothing that you see so many women here in this hall. GǪIn the woman emotion dominates and rightly tells her that the future of our children is at stakeGǪ. Our adversaries may talk as much as they like about our hysterical women.  In former days woman brought Christianity to the countries.  In the end she will also lead our movement to lasting victory.” Pg 255-256.

What women suffrage does is abrogate the teaching and will of Almighty God.  First, God saw that Man needed a “Helper”.  God created woman to help man—not as a ruler to man but as an helper.  Next, in Genesis, it was Eve who was deceived.   Because of the way Eve sinned, God put woman under the man, “GǪand thy submission  shall be to thy husband and he shall rule over thee.”  God put woman under Man for her protection from evil.  Women are easily deceived.  This is the plan and will of God.

St. Paul says, “What does nature teach?”

Well, in the female brain, the corpus callosum grows thick and makes many connections in both halves of the brain.  In male brains, testosterone prevents the growth of the corpus callosum creating a divide between the right and left halves of the brain.  God created women to be emotional in order to tend children.  Since men have to deal with outside forces and nature, God made the male brain to think logically and spatially.  The Male brain thinks in Black and white especially the European brain.  It is the purpose of God that man leads.  God put woman under man for her protection.

Furthermore, man has the physical strength to back up his leadership role.  He can enforce his decisions.  A woman can not.  (She does though, through psycological manipulation.)  If women were meant as leaders, then the physical strength would follow the mental gift.
 
Women cannot think in Black and white.  Because of this condition they are easily deceived.

Feminism is socialist and communist teaching and culture.  It is not Christian culture.

Jesus promised that the gates of Hell should not prevail against the church but what is happening today is that communism and socialism teach Christian people how to act.  Where are the Apostolic Churches?  Where are they teaching and preaching the truth?  Have they abrogated their duty and responsibility to socialists and communists?

It says in Psalm 1.1 “Blessed is the man who has not walked in the counsel of the ungodly, nor stood in the way of sinners nor sat in the seat of evil men.”  What are communists and socialists but evil men.  Who are we to listen too?  Christian men and the Scriptures or to communists and socialists who wish to overturn what God has commanded because this is exactly what woman suffrage does.

What kind of man goes to the voting both and his wife follows and votes against his vote?  Who is responsible for the family and its welfare, protection and teaching?  Is it not the male?  Why does the woman enter in and cancel out his vote?  What kind of men are these that let women cancel out their votes, their say, their right and their responsibilities?  St. Paul, marks the loss of Paradise was the responsibility of Adam not Eve.  Communists and socialists operate on emotion.  They use propaganda on the masses to motivate them to vote their way.  Propaganda doesn’t use reason; it uses the mentality of women----emotion.

Where are the Apostolic churches?  In Protestant America, fundamentalist Protestant ministers fought against woman suffrage?  It is the fundamentalist Protestants that keep the fight.  Where are the Orthodox and Catholic Bishops that are to protect and shepard the flock?  Where are they?  Has the gates of Hell prevailed against the church?  Did our shepards abdicate their teaching role and responsibility?  Should women be voting?  Should women be canceling out the votes of whom God made to be the leaders?  Who is ruling whom? Is the woman suffrage the righteousness of God?

It is clear that Women are not to vote.  Christian women, Protestant, Catholic, or Orthodox are not to be voting.  Period.  Do we follow the teaching of Scriptures or do we follow the communists and socialists?
« Last Edit: September 20, 2004, 07:14:15 PM by WHEELER » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2004, 06:57:17 PM »

Ummm...just curious--what church do you go to?
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« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2004, 07:11:18 PM »

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« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2004, 07:46:34 PM »

Wheeler,

It's not what you say, so much as how you say it. For example, I never had a problem reading Chesterton's views on women voting, even though I disagreed; but then you aren't G.K. Chesterton.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2004, 07:47:42 PM by Paradosis » Logged
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« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2004, 08:05:52 PM »

Women today are given the right to vote.  What woman suffrage does is abrogate the will and plan of Almighty God.  

You ever watch "The Man Show" on Comedy Central?  When Adam Carolla and Jimmy Kimmel were doing it, they had a segment where they went to a beach and got a petition started to stop women's suffrage.  Maybe you should do that.  You'd be surprised how many people signed the petition not knowing what women's suffrage was.  If you do it right, you could probably overturn the 19th Amendment.  Try it!  Smiley

Quote
In a survey of the Kennedy Presidential election a lot of women voted for Kennedy.  Their main reason was because “He was Handsome”.  Do men vote for leaders, because they are handsome?

No, but I presume that's because the majority of men are heterosexual and there haven't been any serious, attractive female candidates for office, at least for offices like the Presidency.  If Carmen Electra decided to run for the Constitution Party, I'd be willing to bet we'd have a viable third party in no time.  

Seriously, men are stupid too.  Heck, I think it's just an American thing.  

Quote
It is clear that Women are not to vote.  Christian women, Protestant, Catholic, or Orthodox are not to be voting.  Period.  Do we follow the teaching of Scriptures or do we follow the communists and socialists?

Dude, if you re-established a Davidic monarchy (or even allied yourself with that kid from Michigan or Wisconsin who was going to get his fellow high-schoolers to fight in his name so he could lay claim to the Byzantine imperial throne), you wouldn't have to worry about women voting.  THAT'S Scriptural government.  How come you're letting democracy slide but not women's suffrage?
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« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2004, 10:33:52 PM »

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In a survey of the Kennedy Presidential election a lot of women voted for Kennedy.  Their main reason was because “He was Handsome”.  Do men vote for leaders, because they are handsome?

You're right.  So how about preventing all the gay men from voting too? I'm sure the world would be a much better place if all the effeminates and women were silenced.

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Well, in the female brain, the corpus callosum grows thick and makes many connections in both halves of the brain.  In male brains, testosterone prevents the growth of the corpus callosum creating a divide between the right and left halves of the brain.  God created women to be emotional in order to tend children.  Since men have to deal with outside forces and nature, God made the male brain to think logically and spatially.  The Male brain thinks in Black and white especially the European brain.  It is the purpose of God that man leads.  God put woman under man for her protection.

OK, I wasn't aware that the fact that the two sides of a man's brain being less able to communicate with eachother was a good thing.  Of course, you would know better than I.  After all, I'm just a lowly woman.  Forgive me for questioning you. You are only trying to protect us, that's all.  

Quote
Furthermore, man has the physical strength to back up his leadership role.  He can enforce his decisions.  A woman can not.

At the risk of sounding unchristian: Come to my house and say that to my face. Roll Eyes

Quote
Because of the way Eve sinned, God put woman under the man, “GǪand thy submission  shall be to thy husband and he shall rule over thee.”  God put woman under Man for her protection from evil.  Women are easily deceived.  This is the plan and will of God.

And Adam sinned along with Eve in eating of the forbidden fruit.  This is of course because Eve was an evil temptress, not because Adam made the conscious decision to go against the will of God as well.  See, he blamed his actions on Eve, and God agreed.  Eve was just a trouble-maker and needed to be silenced.  

Thanks, wheeler...your post was filled with such enlightenment, and not at all redundant.
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« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2004, 10:47:40 PM »

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Dude, if you re-established a Davidic monarchy (or even allied yourself with that kid from Michigan or Wisconsin who was going to get his fellow high-schoolers to fight in his name so he could lay claim to the Byzantine imperial throne), you wouldn't have to worry about women voting.  THAT'S Scriptural government.  How come you're letting democracy slide but not women's suffrage?

Well, back when I was a grad student a UMCP they elected a king. Read this article from The Diamondback about When Royalty Ruled the SGA.
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« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2004, 10:50:22 PM »

At the risk of sounding unchristian: Come to my house and say that to my face. Roll Eyes

You better watch your back, man...she's got a black belt.  Wink

Quote
And Adam sinned along with Eve in eating of the forbidden fruit.  This is of course because Eve was an evil temptress, not because Adam made the conscious decision to go against the will of God as well.  See, he blamed his actions on Eve, and God agreed.  Eve was just a trouble-maker and needed to be silenced.

I always thought it was interesting that in the Genesis story, it doesn't seem like the sin takes effect until both Adam and Eve eat the fruit.  Eve eats first...you'd think from what follows the actual story that she would've realised she was naked, gotten some fig leaves and made herself a bikini, and then gone into hiding until Adam found her and figured out what happened.  Instead, she goes on after eating the fruit as if nothing bad had happened, and only after he eats do they realise they are naked and hide from God and (maybe?) each other.  Saint Paul says something like "In Adam, all have sinned", not "in Eve".  I don't think you can really single out either of them--the original sin was a joint effort--but if you had to single out one of them, I think Adam would be the one...at least that's how it seems.
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« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2004, 11:25:26 PM »

<looks over WHEELER's post>

 Roll Eyes  Man, we really can make Scripture say whatever we want to, can't we?!
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« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2004, 12:14:30 AM »

You're right about that, Pedro.  Wink  

There are alot of assertions there, too. But not much to back them up that I can read.  Like medical documentation for that claim about brain structure, for instance.  And where did the survey regarding voting for Kennedy come from?  


A Couple of history facts relating to Women and sufferage. J.S. Mill published "The Subjugation of Women in 1869. It can be read here:
http://oll.libertyfund.org/Texts/MillJS0172/OnLibertyAndSubjection/HTMLs/0159_Pt02_Women.html#hd_lf159.head.008

The Seneca Falls Convention on women's rights was in 1848.
http://www2.worldbook.com/features/whm/html/whm010.html#beginnings

Just for information's sake the first woman to request the vote (2 actually) in the colonies was Margaret Brent of Maryland in 1648.
http://earlyamerica.com/review/1998/brent.html

So it would seem that the assertion that the idea comes from Mill is in error.

Another historical point: Not all men had the vote either.  There were laws defining which men could vote usually depending on property ownership.

There also seems to be a step missing in the logic of "Keep silent in church" leads directly to "must be silent" in politics.  One wonders where Deborah the Judge from the O.T. would fit with this concept.  Among other judgements she *did* direct Barak to attack Sisera after all, though he would not go unless she went too. (Judges, Chapter 4)

The assertion that the male *European* brain is especially logical also lacks any support. But a "European" female Brain is not? Where does that leave Marie Curie, one wonders.  

"Women can not think in Black and White"  What is "Black and White" thinking?  Why is it a good thing? and how do you know that women *can't* do it?  Any data on that?  

Regarding physical strength there is a spectrum for both sexes.  An average man may be stronger then an average woman, but there's the 'ends of the bell curve' too.  And using physical strength to "enforce"?  Beating and bullying to get one's way is leadership?  

I also recollect (bringing this back to EO) that there were some Empresses here and there in the Byzantine and Russian empires who could be considered strong leaders in their own right.

And just from a quick google, J. David Pawson would appear to be some kind of Evangelical writer/teacher.  Why would his words be necessarily true?

Ebor

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« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2004, 12:38:41 AM »

I agree with some of the sentiments, but I think not allowing women to vote may be going to far.  I think it would be logical to conclude though that our country would be in much better shape if women were not allowed to vote because abortion would still probably be illegal & our country's leadership would be much more conservative because women vote in higher percantages then men for  more liberal candidates.  I know this is a can of worms & would never be implemented here. Looks like the islamo facist are the only ones left to have a monopoly on oppressing women.

A better idea is to only allow people that own property & businesses to vote. That would wipe out about 50% of the garbage that goes on in this country because the people casting the ballots first would actually know how to read the ballot & secondly would know how to punch a ballot.
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« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2004, 03:17:52 AM »

Mor,

Actually, if taken apart from the rest of Scripture and Tradition, I think that 2 Tim. 2:13-14 could be taken as blaming solely Eve for the fall. Of course, I am not advocating such an exegesis! Smiley

Speaking of which, I should also clarify my last post. When I said that it wasn't what Wheeler was saying so much as how he was saying it, I didn't mean to imply that I accepted what he said, I only meant that it was hard to even read what he was writing. I disagree even with Chesterton (as articulated in What's Wrong With the World), who bases part of his argument on the idea that women in his day didn't want to vote, and it was being forced onto them (don't know if there's any truth to that). At least I can read and consider Chesterton's arguments, though.
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« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2004, 06:39:50 AM »

A better idea is to only allow people that own property & businesses to vote.

That's only a good idea if you don't own any property.
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« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2004, 07:30:25 AM »

I agree with some of the sentiments, but I think not allowing women to vote may be going to far.  I think it would be logical to conclude though that our country would be in much better shape if women were not allowed to vote because abortion would still probably be illegal & our country's leadership would be much more conservative because women vote in higher percantages then men for  more liberal candidates.    

I was not aware of that statistic.  I also, for one, know a lot of men who are in favor of abortion because, if they were placed in that position, they would not want to be responsible in any legal way for bringing a child into the world.

Ebor, thanks for pointing those things out the way you did and not being hot-headed as I was, forgive me all.
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« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2004, 09:40:35 AM »

I am not for a democracy.  If you know anything about the Protestant foundation of this country and Protestant methodology that they went to the Scriptures for teaching you would see:

Quote
"The history of mixed government goes back to the chief founders of New England. The early Massachusetts government was predominantly aristocratic. John Cotton and John Winthrop had an aversion to democracy. The Puritan preachers strongly believed that Scriptures only approved monarchy and aristocracy. "At best, Winthrop and his friends believed in what they called 'a mixt aristocracy'".


As you can see the Scriptures only approve monarchy or mixed aristocracy or mixed government as it is called.  Mixed Government is known by either the names A Republic or Commonwealth.  Kentucky and Massachussets are not states but commonwealths as the New Testatment uses those words.

For the correct definition of our form of government please see

http://www.wikinfo.org/wiki.php?title=Classical_definition_of_republic

Nacho is right on.  If you look at American politics, women vote overwhelmingly liberal.  Our country would be much more conservative if just the men voted.  

If you all know anything Fr. Seraphim Rose in his book, "Nihilism, The Root of Revolution of the Modern Age" rightly points out that LIBERALISM IS A FORM OF NIHILISM.  It is passive nihilism.  These women vote nihilistic because at the heart Woman Suffrage is nihilism.  It is liberalism.  They have broken through the Old Order.  All Nihilism is the destruction of the Old Order!!!

The Old Order is Christian based.  The New Order is about deconstructing the Christian Order and bringing about the Socialist New Order.

Women do not belong in Politics and should not vote.  Just like the Churches have grown effeminate in that they can not enforce the veil anymore, the churches are proving that they don't have what it takes.  They are the cause of defeat and not victory.

J. S. Mills gave the intellectual background and was a force in the woman suffragist movement.
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« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2004, 10:16:39 AM »

Wheeler (that was the name of my highschool, BTW),  you sound more like a fundamentalist protestant than you do an Orthodox.  Just my impression.
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« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2004, 10:25:57 AM »

I'm a Christian.  Truth is Truth.  Why argue with the truth.  

What is this "You don't sound Orthodox?"  What the Orthodox are not supposed to read scripture?  The Orthodox are not to get any lessons from the scriptures?  What does it mean "sound like an Orthodox?"

Let's do a little Patristics shall we:


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“It is not permitted to a woman to speak in the church, not to teach, baptize, offer, or to claim to herself , a lot in any manly function not to mention the priestly office.”  Tertullian (c. 207, W), 4.33

What does the Patristic source say?

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« Reply #17 on: September 21, 2004, 10:48:51 AM »

I'm a Christian.  Truth is Truth.  Why argue with the truth.

Of course, everyone thinks their interpretation of Scripture (usually out of context) is the "truth".

Quote
What is this "You don't sound Orthodox?"  What the Orthodox are not supposed to read scripture?
I'm not Orthodox, but I imagine they are indeed supposed to read scripture.  They're just not ones to go around proclaiming their individual out-of-context subjective interpretations as objective truth.

 
Quote
The Orthodox are not to get any lessons from the scriptures?  
Yes, they do but in the context of church teaching.

Quote
What does it mean "sound like an Orthodox?"
Well, I'm not Orthodox, but usually the folks that rant and rave the most about "Communists" (and such) infiltrating the church and changing the Bible are backwoods fundamentalists.  Also the suggestion that the (alleged) mistranslation of the Greek word for "homosexual" (or "effeminate) is somehow the most devastating thing to occur in Christendom  is more in line with fundamentalist haggling over peripheral words.  Your defense of the KJV sounds more like an independent KJV-only fundamental baptist than one in the Orthodox tradition.  Just my observations.

Quote
Let's do a little Patristics shall we:What does the Patristic source say?



And that quote has what to do with women voting and holding political office?  As others have pointed out, it's a stretch to extend biblical and patristic prohibition against female bishops and elders into the secular politcal arena.
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« Reply #18 on: September 21, 2004, 10:57:45 AM »

Slander here---- "Backwoods fundamentalists".  Being a fundamentalist is evil???

Where does this come from?  Is this scriptural???

Last time I checked Phineas is regarded as a hero throughout scripture.  Phineas is that "Backwoods fundamentalist" that killed the Israelite prince with a Moabitess.    Let's go to Scripture shall we:

Book of Sirach which is Scripture, "The third in glory is Phinees the son of Eleazar, becau7se he had ZEAL in the fear of the LORD, and stotod up with good courage of heart when the people were turned back and made reconciliation for Israel.
45.23.

See the wisdom of God is not the wisdom of this world.  The wisdom of God says zealots are for God.  God is a fundamentalist.  Jesus did nothing but quote scripture.  

Fundamentalists are only evil to liberals, socialists, Pharisees, and Scribes.  God loves fundamentalists!
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« Reply #19 on: September 21, 2004, 11:44:38 AM »

Yeah, women shouldn't vote.  We need to be more like the muslims.  Saudi Arabia  is a model for peace and well run society.  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #20 on: September 21, 2004, 01:03:20 PM »

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God loves fundamentalists!

And God hates fags, too, right?  Matthew Shepherd is in Hell, right?
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« Reply #21 on: September 21, 2004, 01:14:20 PM »

 I think it would be logical to conclude though that our country would be in much better shape if women were not allowed to vote because abortion would still probably be illegal & our country's leadership would be much more conservative because women vote in higher percantages then men for  more liberal candidates.  

How do you prove that assertion logically? And there are men who vote for "liberal" candidates, too.  What is your data on percentage of voting, please?

Did you know that the early exemplars of Women's Suffrage in the US were, as would be termed now, "Pro-life".  Susan B. Anthony, for example, looked on abortion as  "Child murder" and infanticide and viewed it as another injustice directed at women by men who did not want the responsiblity of having children, but did want their fun.

Here is a page of pdf files of back issues of the Feminists for Life magazine with "Herstory" columns about various women and their pro-life views.
http://www.feministsforlife.org/history/herstory/

Quote
A better idea is to only allow people that own property & businesses to vote. That would wipe out about 50% of the garbage that goes on in this country because the people casting the ballots first would actually know how to read the ballot & secondly would know how to punch a ballot.  

How do you define "own"?  The mortgage is paid off? How much property?  Only above a certain value?  That's like the Colonial laws.   This idea could cut down on the voting rolls significantly I should think, since it would eliminate renters and mortgage holders.

I'm not trying to be difficult here, but where do you get your numbers and percentages?  What is the hard data?  

Robert Heinlein in "Starship Troopers" had a society in which the right to vote came after government/military service.  Keeps the younger people from having a voice in politics...


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« Reply #22 on: September 21, 2004, 01:18:44 PM »

Just to go back even farther, here is the work of Mary Wollstonecraft,
"A Vindication of the Rights of Woman With Strictures on Political and Moral Subjects" 1792

http://www.bartleby.com/144/

It also occurred to me, the start of this thread mentioned married women shouldn't vote because they would 'cancel' their husband's ballot. Well then, what of single women?  

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« Reply #23 on: September 21, 2004, 01:26:16 PM »

I was not aware of that statistic.  I also, for one, know a lot of men who are in favor of abortion because, if they were placed in that position, they would not want to be responsible in any legal way for bringing a child into the world.

Ebor, thanks for pointing those things out the way you did and not being hot-headed as I was, forgive me all.

You didn't come across as hot-headed, MsGuided.   Smiley Some posts need direct and pointed replies.  

Ebor
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« Reply #24 on: September 21, 2004, 02:40:04 PM »

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How do you prove that assertion logically? And there are men who vote for "liberal" candidates, too.  What is your data on percentage of voting, please?

Last election, Gore got 55% of the womens vote compared to 43% for Bush. If you look at the past few elections, you will see about a 10-15% difference between men & women.  

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Did you know that the early exemplars of Women's Suffrage in the US were, as would be termed now, "Pro-life".  Susan B. Anthony, for example, looked on abortion as  "Child murder" and infanticide and viewed it as another injustice directed at women by men who did not want the responsiblity of having children, but did want thei
for fun.

Yes, I am well aware that there are many patriotic women in this country. Just take a look at some women of our times such as Ann Coulter, Michelle Malkin, Dr. Laura,  & Laura Ingrahm who have done a good job balancing out the shrills of those on the left.

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How do you define "own"?  The mortgage is paid off? How much property?  Only above a certain value?  That's like the Colonial laws.  This idea could cut down on the voting rolls significantly I should think, since it would eliminate renters and mortgage holders.

I haven't really thought about this too hard so I'm not sure how to exactly "define" ownership. Another good idea I have thought of would to have 5 basic questions that any idiot should be able to answer. For example, name the first two presidents of the United States? That right there would disqualify about half the ballots cast in this country. We would have much greater leaders because the people that actually care about this country would be making the right decisions on who is worthy of being elected.  Wink
 Wink
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« Reply #25 on: September 21, 2004, 02:47:56 PM »

For the Physical and psychological differences between men and women please see the book, Sex Differences, Modern Biology and the Unisex Fallacy by Yves Chrsiten.

Nature teaches that men and women are not made equal.  People pull out that verse which Theodore pulls out, "There is no jew, greek, male or female but all are one in Jesus Christ".  Theodore and others expecially the socialists and communists with preaching equality.  That is only part of the picture.  What these people do is confuse the vertical with the horizontal.  They confuse the spiritual with the physical.   All men are sinners before God, none righteous and God calls all men to salvation.  In the spiritual, in the vertical, there is equality, but in the physcial, God ordained heirarchy and to each his place in life.  This is precisely the fault of Eve.  She coveted Adam's spot.  She wanted equality with Adam.  She usurped the place of Adam.  This is where discernment is---not to confuse the vertical dimension with the horizontal dimension.

Nature,Classicism and the Bible agree together.  Leadership is Male.  

The judge Deborah was still under her husband.  Exceptions do not prove the generalization.  There is always exceptions to the rule but exceptions don't make the rule.

The West has been fighting the French Revolution for the longest time.  It takes reason, rationality and knowledge of one's enemies to know what is going on.  Unisexism is socialist and communist ideology.  Yet, the Orthodox are very slow in recognizing this.  Many Orthodox think that equality of the sexes is the status quo.  But in the Roman Catholic tradition, we have recognized these errors.  (They are not very successful in combatting this pernicious error either).  Unisexism is NOT Christian culture or methodology.  Unisexism is not Scripture.

Woman suffrage is the political manifestation of Unisexism.
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« Reply #26 on: September 21, 2004, 03:20:56 PM »


Okay, after reading a few more posts, I've realized my original intuition was right.  Wheeler is just a troll.  Nobody believes this nonsense, he's just being an entertaining caricature.

He's laughing at all of you who are taking him seriously.  I mean, look, he can't even decide what religion he is.  Remember how he's been Orthodox for 30 years?  (Since he was 14 according to his bio?)  Then this:

Quote
Many Orthodox think that equality of the sexes is the status quo.  But in the Roman Catholic tradition, we have recognized these errors.

Can't even keep his assumed identity straight.  I only held out on this post as long as I did because I thought there was half a chance he was just some poor fellow struggling with his sexuality.  But he's crossed well over the line where he could possibly be real.

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« Reply #27 on: September 21, 2004, 03:41:06 PM »

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Can't even keep his assumed identity straight.  I only held out on this post as long as I did because I thought there was half a chance he was just some poor fellow struggling with his sexuality.  But he's crossed well over the line where he could possibly be real.

I was about to post the same thing, but you've beat me to it!

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« Reply #28 on: September 21, 2004, 04:40:23 PM »

For the Physical and psychological differences between men and women please see the book, Sex Differences, Modern Biology and the Unisex Fallacy by Yves Chrsiten.

What are Mr. Christen's qualifications for such a work?  Since this book is one that is offered for sale on a site ("National Vanguard Books A Valuable Resource for Whites") that also has the monstrous "The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion" as well as many others against Jews, Communism and an interesting volume "The Christ Myth" by one Nicholas Carter (which is also the name of the English Translator of Mr. Christen's book.  Further reseach is needed to see if they are the same man, but I have my suspicions.)  that is described as:

"Besides pointing out a host of facts that Christians will no doubt find inconvenient, this book by Nicholas Carter sheds considerable light on the Jewish way of thinking, delving into their neurotic mentality to uncover the reasons behind the religions they invented, including Christianity and Judaism. Literature written at a time that would have been contemporary with Jesus contains no reference to him whatever. The four gospels were written in the middle of the 2nd century. Carter explains that the popularity of Christianity had much to do with the desperation of the great masses of people during the decay of the Roman Empire. A new Eastern magian religion would not have prospered during earlier days when Rome was White and strong. But during its latter days, Rome's miserable citizens were easy marks for a religion that promised them a Heaven after death."

I have serious doubts that the book you suggest has any real biology or at least correct interpretation of Biological data in it.  

Quote
Nature teaches that men and women are not made equal.


Where?  How? What does Nature tell? You are Nature's Spokesman?

Quote
Nature,Classicism and the Bible agree together.  Leadership is Male.  
As for Nature, tell that to the Peregrine Falcon (females are larger) or the African Elephant or the American Bison (Females lead the family groups).

Quote
The judge Deborah was still under her husband

All it says was "And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, she judged Israel at that time." Judges 4:4  He doesn't tell her to do anything. She isn't described as asking his permission to go with Barak. Barak doesn't talk to Lapidoth but to the Judge Deborah.

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Woman suffrage is the political manifestation of Unisexism.  

And  "unisexism" means?

Ebor  

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« Reply #29 on: September 21, 2004, 04:51:07 PM »

And  "unisexism" means?

Which definition would you like?  The Western Christian definition, or the ungodly influenced by homosexual scholarship and totally liberal definition?
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« Reply #30 on: September 21, 2004, 04:52:38 PM »

He's laughing at all of you who are taking him seriously

Ah, but I'm not taking him seriously, JohnC.  Cheesy  

He isn't here to discuss things seriously, so I have used a stray moment or two to post real writings and documentation so that others, who may not know, can find out for themselves and be aware of such peculiar, not to say, personal interpretations and unsupported assertions.

Often people can be fooled by a smooth talker or writer who *Seems* to have a logical line of thought.  But critical reading and asking questions are a good habit to learn. Also
Find out the Primary Sources.

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« Reply #31 on: September 21, 2004, 04:56:14 PM »

Which definition would you like?  The Western Christian definition, or the ungodly influenced by homosexual scholarship and totally liberal definition?

LOL, theodore  Cheesy  One wonders if there's a "godly influenced by heterosexual scholarship and totally conservative definition".

How about all of them and then we can try and figure out which is correct.  (I suspect it's not in the OED.)

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« Reply #32 on: September 22, 2004, 08:17:34 PM »

I am not a troll.  Scripture says, "Let your Yes be Yes and Your No be NO".  Gravitas is a Christian virtue.  It means to be serious.  It would also be out of context for a Doric Kretan not to tell the truth AT ALL TIMES!

Yves Christian book is very scholary and well documented book.  I picked his book out from the Conservative Book Club.  

Unisexism is unChristian and ungodly.  Both the apostolic churches are failing in this regard to uphold Christian culture and teaching.

Just like they know longer enforce and preach on the veil---is just another sign of the effeminacy of the Christian churches to uphold apostolic, scripture teaching.
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« Reply #33 on: September 23, 2004, 12:53:22 AM »

A better idea is to only allow people that own property & businesses to vote. That would wipe out about 50% of the garbage that goes on in this country because the people casting the ballots first would actually know how to read the ballot & secondly would know how to punch a ballot.  

So everyone who doesn't own property is an idiot, basically?
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« Reply #34 on: September 23, 2004, 01:01:02 AM »

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So everyone who doesn't own property is an idiot, basically?

YEA LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wink
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« Reply #35 on: September 23, 2004, 01:05:47 AM »

Have you ever served in the military?
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« Reply #36 on: September 23, 2004, 10:50:00 AM »

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Have you ever served in the military?

No
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« Reply #37 on: September 23, 2004, 10:52:16 AM »

Nacho, best way would be for people to take tests.  I don't see myself owning business or property in the near future, but i think I could answer a few questions.  

And Wheeler... women are weaker than men?  HaHaHaHa...  (says Ania, who works out 3+ times a week & has been known to take down a guy or 2).
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« Reply #38 on: September 23, 2004, 11:00:22 AM »

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Nacho, best way would be for people to take tests.  I don't see myself owning business or property in the near future, but i think I could answer a few questions.  

I agree
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« Reply #39 on: September 23, 2004, 11:21:35 AM »

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Have you ever served in the military?

Actually, thinking about it I would make everyone military persons vote count as 3 votes each. I think they atleast deserve that. Military people ussually vote for the "right" candidates also if you know what I mean  Cool......
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« Reply #40 on: September 23, 2004, 12:08:27 PM »

I am not a troll.  Scripture says, "Let your Yes be Yes and Your No be NO".  Gravitas is a Christian virtue.  It means to be serious.  It would also be out of context for a Doric Kretan not to tell the truth AT ALL TIMES!

Gee, Wheeler, you sound like the sort of person Umberto Eco wrote The Name of the Rose against.

Quote
Yves Christian book is very scholary and well documented book.

That's Yves Christen, and from what little I can tell, he's a legitimate biologist who wrote a book about the physical basis of gender difference. What exactly the book says, I can't say, because I can find to information on-line about it (for instance, there are no Amazon reviews).

What I can find is that our Wheeler here has been taking his cause all over the place. For example, I found him popping up in a scouting forum.
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« Reply #41 on: September 23, 2004, 12:40:33 PM »

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From the forum Keble linked by WHEELER:

Mothering destroys the masculine.

Dude, you sound like those militant lesbians who say that all a father is good for is his sperm.  Apparently, you think that all mothers are good for is their placenta.
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« Reply #42 on: September 23, 2004, 02:26:12 PM »

I am not a troll.  Scripture says, "Let your Yes be Yes and Your No be NO".  Gravitas is a Christian virtue.  It means to be serious.  It would also be out of context for a Doric Kretan not to tell the truth AT ALL TIMES!

What a "Doric Kretan" thinks is the truth and what the truth actually *is* are not necessarily identical or even in the same ballpark, maybe.

Quote
Yves Christian book is very scholary and well documented book.  I picked his book out from the Conservative Book Club.  

Are you trained in Biology that you understand what he means?  Or are you reading your own agenda into it?

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Unisexism is unChristian and ungodly.

What does "unisexism" *mean* to you?  No dictionary definitions; no flat assertions without backup.  What is it mean to you, personally, Mr. Wheeler?

Ebor
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« Reply #43 on: September 23, 2004, 02:49:07 PM »

So much to comment on!  First, Nacho, I'd be happy just to have one vote.  I don't agree with your ideas (i.e. military deserves more of a vote because we're generally conservative), but I have to admit I expected to work you into a corner on the fact that most young soldiers don't own property.  It's good not to disenfranchise the military.  See Roman History if you have any doubts.
I don't agree with most of what Wheeler says.  I looked at the scouting forum, though, and agree that the Boy Scouts is for boys.  Of course, I plan on teaching my daughter neat things like land-nav, first aid, and other outdoorsy things that will help her in the long run.  I don't need the Boy scouts to do it, though when I have a son or two I'll defnitely encourage them to join.
Ebor, I think that unisexism is the idea that there is no fundamental difference between men and women.  At least that would be my definition.  I come from a very punk rock background, where androgony is very fashionable.  Do I agree with it?  Nope.  Women are women and men are men, and that's that, if we're speaking scientifically.  I actually heard, from a source I wouldn't consider conservative, about the membrane theory of why women can do woman things and men can do man things, and why both sexes are better at certain specialized tasks than each other,and it makes sense.  But that doesn't mean that women shouldn't vote, etc.  In fact, if Wheeler wants to do away with women's suffrage on a religious basis, he'd be more credible if he just went all the way and pushed for the only acceptable form of holy government...monarchy.  Until then, we live in a republic (that, unfortunately is trying to be a socialist demorcracy day after day), and we operate in political accordance.  
This whole problem everyone is going haywire over really traces itself back to the problem of broad and narrow constructionism in regards to the Constitution.  As with all political arenas, there is right, there is left, there is centrist, and then there is just plain ridiculous (radical and reactionary).  I guess I'm more in favor of Jefferson's ideas than Hamilton's.  But anyway, cheers all, have a lovely afternoon.  Christ is in our midst =)
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« Reply #44 on: September 23, 2004, 08:05:24 PM »

Keble found me out on Scouting forum.  Good.  
I hope all read my comments.

Truth bites.
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