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Author Topic: Show off your Guns!  (Read 18448 times) Average Rating: 0
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GabrieltheCelt
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« Reply #90 on: January 23, 2012, 12:49:03 PM »

 Mike, I want to apologize to you for insulting you.  It was uncalled for and most certainly unChristian.  Poland has a rich heritage and many wonderful traditions and I can honestly say that I would love to visit her someday.  Having said that, I would like to say that I started this thread for those of us who are either gun enthusiast's (American or not) or who maybe just have one gun that they're proud of (I have a friend who's never shot a gun but who owns a rifle that his grandfather had during WWII.  He and his grandfather were close and that rifle reminds him of all the great memories he has.  Did that type of gun ownership ever cross your mind?  I guess not.).  It was wrong of me to insult you Mike, but surely you're smart enough to have known that your poster regarding gun ownership equating over-compensation would be insulting as well?  If you didn't, well, you're not as smart as I thought you were.  All I wanted to do was start a thread that would be fun for folks who own guns as a place to post pictures of them.  I never intended for this to be a debate about gun ownership vs. non gun ownership.  For those of you who don't like guns, why not re-direct your energies to a thread topic you do like?      
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« Reply #91 on: January 23, 2012, 12:49:03 PM »

As guns have hundreds of useful applications besides killing such as...

OK, there is one: penile prosthesises.

Remember killing is not forbidden in the 10 commandments, MURDER is.   It's "Thou shalt not MURDER".   Killing unfortunately is sometimes an answer.  Put your family in the following positions.

WITHOUT FIREARM - Home invasion - lady without gun & big dogs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd3vWsa4ags
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caUlXVKfzLw

WITH FIREARM - Home invasion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZ26XdTPIY0&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiiQQP4-Ijw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvppBGNZVtg&feature=related
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« Reply #92 on: January 23, 2012, 12:49:16 PM »

What is a chance that the attacker before attacking your wife will give her some time to:
a) take a gun from the place she keeps it
b) point it at him and shoot
?


Again:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZ26XdTPIY0&feature=related
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« Reply #93 on: January 23, 2012, 01:28:13 PM »

I knew I had gone really Far Left when I joined the NRA.

Saving up for this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=OYCXcZcAs5A

Were you one of the crewmen?  I helped man an 1812 era ~6 pndr once up at Fort Atkinson north of town here.

Nope, I'm just getting old for Infantry so it's my ambition to join an arty unit.

Expensive hobby. Every time they fire it costs $30 to $40 worth of powder. 
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« Reply #94 on: January 23, 2012, 01:38:04 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

The Glock 21SF is my winter carry gun, the 30SF is my summer carry.  The 36 is the one I have when I have to be very descrete.  The 20 is my Field Pistol, hence the covered holster.

The above post reminds me of this scene.

HaHa!! For real, I can't for the life of me figure out exactly what all those pistols are needed for.. Wink




Thank you, myself, when wandering around on foot through wild neighborhoods full of armed men and trigger happy police, the only weapon that keeps my safe and alive and delivers me (I speak from literal experience) from my enemies and those who threaten me has been my rosary.  I've owned guns before, and all guns seemed to have gotten people I know and love is shot, some dead Sad

For those who breathed a bit of sanity into this thread I thank you sincerely.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
« Last Edit: January 23, 2012, 01:38:45 PM by HabteSelassie » Logged

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« Reply #95 on: January 23, 2012, 01:42:00 PM »

Buying a Barretta soon. To quote Boris the bullet-dodger, "If it wont shoot, you can always hit them with it....."

PP
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« Reply #96 on: January 23, 2012, 01:46:59 PM »

What is a chance that the attacker before attacking your wife will give her some time to:
a) take a gun from the place she keeps it
b) point it at him and shoot
?

a) should be kept in a holster on you.

b) with training, less than one second.

So, the chance is very high.  The training that I have taken spends far more time on situational awareness and avoidance than they did on actual shooting.  If you pay attention to the training, most situations unfold before you rather than take you by suprise.  If you find yourself having to react immediately, your tactics pretty much suck.  
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« Reply #97 on: January 23, 2012, 01:51:20 PM »

Mike, I want to apologize to you for insulting you.  It was uncalled for and most certainly unChristian.  Poland has a rich heritage and many wonderful traditions and I can honestly say that I would love to visit her someday.  Having said that, I would like to say that I started this thread for those of us who are either gun enthusiast's (American or not) or who maybe just have one gun that they're proud of (I have a friend who's never shot a gun but who owns a rifle that his grandfather had during WWII.  He and his grandfather were close and that rifle reminds him of all the great memories he has.  Did that type of gun ownership ever cross your mind?  I guess not.).  It was wrong of me to insult you Mike, but surely you're smart enough to have known that your poster regarding gun ownership equating over-compensation would be insulting as well?  If you didn't, well, you're not as smart as I thought you were.  All I wanted to do was start a thread that would be fun for folks who own guns as a place to post pictures of them.  I never intended for this to be a debate about gun ownership vs. non gun ownership.  For those of you who don't like guns, why not re-direct your energies to a thread topic you do like?      

Well, I don't consider myself to be a Pole and I don't feel connected with the Polish heritage but I appreciate your attempt Smiley

I see the sense in posessing guns as memorabilia or for sport but I cannot understand a few opinions posted here.

Firstly I don't understand the culture of venerating arms and people who use them, familiarizing children with them etc. IMO this is to dangerous and can result in serious accidents and some mental disorders.

Secondly I don't share the belief that an average Joe Doe should posses a gun to protect his family. As Marc1152 noticed, people without experience in shooting other people and professional training won't be able to physically overpower the assaulter and force themselves to wound or shoot another man. Shooting beer cans or phantoms isn't the same thing.

Thirdly if one states he needs a gun to defend himself I don't see any reason to boast with that and inform potential assaulters on social networks or elewhere what guns one possesses and how proficient is he in using them because it will make assaulters to prepare better.

I also can't understand how you can justify with safety purposes posessing an arsenal of a dozen of different weapons. You won't be able to use more than one to defend yourself unless you are centipedes.

I am also against hunting for fun but I consider it to be less harmful than the things listed above.

I am fully aware that I insulted some of you here and I'm not proud of it. I also agree that as we won't persuade each other it is pointless for me to keep posting in this thread.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2012, 01:55:39 PM by Michał Kalina » Logged

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« Reply #98 on: January 23, 2012, 01:56:47 PM »

If came down to shooting someone or my family getting hurt, I'll shoot the person. It's my job to protect my family. I hope, however, that it never comes down to that.
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« Reply #99 on: January 23, 2012, 02:05:38 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!





Thirdly if one states he needs a gun to defend himself I don't see any reason to boast with that and inform potential assaulters on social networks or elewhere what guns one possesses and how proficient is he in using them because it will make assaulters to prepare better.

I also can't understand how you can justify with safety purposes posessing an arsenal of a dozen of different weapons. You won't be able to use more than one to defend yourself unless you are centipedes.





stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #100 on: January 23, 2012, 02:33:24 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!





Thirdly if one states he needs a gun to defend himself I don't see any reason to boast with that and inform potential assaulters on social networks or elewhere what guns one possesses and how proficient is he in using them because it will make assaulters to prepare better.

I also can't understand how you can justify with safety purposes posessing an arsenal of a dozen of different weapons. You won't be able to use more than one to defend yourself unless you are centipedes.





stay blessed,
habte selassie

That looks like it's ready for a strafing run!
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« Reply #101 on: January 23, 2012, 04:35:15 PM »


Firstly I don't understand the culture of venerating arms and people who use them, familiarizing children with them etc. IMO this is to dangerous and can result in serious accidents and some mental disorders.

Mike, this is going back to what I posted earlier- I personally detest guns and wouldn't use them to protect myself (though were I married with children that would possibly be a different story entirely) and property. That said, if a family is going to own firearms they darn well BETTER make sure their children are not only familiar with them but downright know how to use them. A gun in the house is much safer when everyone knows how to use it, not when it's "Daddy's little secret" tucked away in a closet somewhere. It's not as dangerous for the children to be familiar with the weapons as it is for them to be unfamiliar.

Quote
Thirdly if one states he needs a gun to defend himself I don't see any reason to boast with that and inform potential assaulters on social networks or elewhere what guns one possesses and how proficient is he in using them because it will make assaulters to prepare better.

The only assaulter who is going to be better prepared than Punch or Gabriel is an enemy army. And even then, that army better watch out. The types of criminals who rob and mug are cowards, they prey on the weak and vulnerable, knowing that the situation they are going into could leave them dead is a big deterrent (gangbangers are a slightly different story. In their eyes they are at war with each other and spend their lives going from confrontation to confrontation. Still, most gang shootings are quick drive-bys and crimes of opportunity, where they have rival gang members cornered or exposed. A full out guns blazing gang war like you see in the movies is very rare).
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« Reply #102 on: January 23, 2012, 04:47:38 PM »

Quote
Firstly I don't understand the culture of venerating arms and people who use them, familiarizing children with them etc. IMO this is to dangerous and can result in serious accidents and some mental disorders
Actually, it does alot for the maturity of a child. Where I live most kids are very comfortable with guns and are introduced to them at an early age. There is almost never a gun accident or some kid killing his friend because of showing off a gun. However, when a kid has no clue about guns and he, with his friends run across dad's pistol.....well......we've read about that.

PP
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« Reply #103 on: January 23, 2012, 04:52:54 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Quote
Firstly I don't understand the culture of venerating arms and people who use them, familiarizing children with them etc. IMO this is to dangerous and can result in serious accidents and some mental disorders
Actually, it does alot for the maturity of a child. Where I live most kids are very comfortable with guns and are introduced to them at an early age. There is almost never a gun accident or some kid killing his friend because of showing off a gun. However, when a kid has no clue about guns and he, with his friends run across dad's pistol.....well......we've read about that.

PP

Having grown up around guns I do agree with these statements. IF people chose to have guns in their homes with children, then it is a MUST that they socialize their kids around these kids, teach them how to properly hold and use them, not to turn the kids into marksmen, but rather that the kids know not to play with the gun, and if they ever do pick up a gun, they will know what to do and what not to do. There is simply NOTHING hidden in a house from an inquisitive 9 or 10 year old, if any of y'all think you are hiding anything your kids have surely fooled you well Wink



stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #104 on: January 23, 2012, 04:54:45 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!
Christ overturned tables in the Temple and asked people how they were going to save their souls from damnation; some of these comments seem to come straight out of Jesus Camp in the 1970's about love and acceptance. Christ wasn't invited by prostitutes and sinners to eat at their table, they came to Christ and ate with him. They showed repentance. They did not expect him to come to them. They turned away from their sinful lifestyle and Christ accepted them. That's the point of the story. The world is so abnormal it's difficult to distinguish right from wrong these days. Read St. John Chrysostom's Homily on Marriage for a normal view of relations between the genders. You can be loving toward your gay friends without accepting their practices or compromising faith in Christ.

Notice two things:

Christ only did this ONCE, whereas He was kind and tolerant to sinners for the rest of His 33 years on Earth, perhaps we should take this example of humility to heart.

Further, CHRIST is the one who flipped those tables, not the Apostles, not the disciples, not any other humans.  Christ can flip any tables He likes, but HE NEVER CALLED US TO DO THE SAME.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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Then He said to them, "But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one

PP
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« Reply #105 on: January 23, 2012, 04:57:57 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Quote
Firstly I don't understand the culture of venerating arms and people who use them, familiarizing children with them etc. IMO this is to dangerous and can result in serious accidents and some mental disorders
Actually, it does alot for the maturity of a child. Where I live most kids are very comfortable with guns and are introduced to them at an early age. There is almost never a gun accident or some kid killing his friend because of showing off a gun. However, when a kid has no clue about guns and he, with his friends run across dad's pistol.....well......we've read about that.

PP

Having grown up around guns I do agree with these statements. IF people chose to have guns in their homes with children, then it is a MUST that they socialize their kids around these kids, teach them how to properly hold and use them, not to turn the kids into marksmen, but rather that the kids know not to play with the gun, and if they ever do pick up a gun, they will know what to do and what not to do. There is simply NOTHING hidden in a house from an inquisitive 9 or 10 year old, if any of y'all think you are hiding anything your kids have surely fooled you well Wink



stay blessed,
habte selassie
Exactly....my parents found that out when at the tender age of 5 I discovered what pr0n was......and some parts of the female anatomy  laugh laugh laugh

PP
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« Reply #106 on: January 23, 2012, 05:15:10 PM »


Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Christ overturned tables in the Temple and asked people how they were going to save their souls from damnation; some of these comments seem to come straight out of Jesus Camp in the 1970's about love and acceptance. Christ wasn't invited by prostitutes and sinners to eat at their table, they came to Christ and ate with him. They showed repentance. They did not expect him to come to them. They turned away from their sinful lifestyle and Christ accepted them. That's the point of the story. The world is so abnormal it's difficult to distinguish right from wrong these days. Read St. John Chrysostom's Homily on Marriage for a normal view of relations between the genders. You can be loving toward your gay friends without accepting their practices or compromising faith in Christ.

Notice two things:

Christ only did this ONCE, whereas He was kind and tolerant to sinners for the rest of His 33 years on Earth, perhaps we should take this example of humility to heart.

Further, CHRIST is the one who flipped those tables, not the Apostles, not the disciples, not any other humans.  Christ can flip any tables He likes, but HE NEVER CALLED US TO DO THE SAME.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
Luke 22:36

Quote
Then He said to them, "But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one

PP


What? you misplace this post, was it intended for the gun threads? How exactly does this fit into the context of Jesus flipping tables and not the Apostles neither ourselves?

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #107 on: January 23, 2012, 05:17:25 PM »

actually, yeah that is where it was supposed to go.

PP
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« Reply #108 on: January 23, 2012, 05:26:47 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Quote
Firstly I don't understand the culture of venerating arms and people who use them, familiarizing children with them etc. IMO this is to dangerous and can result in serious accidents and some mental disorders
Actually, it does alot for the maturity of a child. Where I live most kids are very comfortable with guns and are introduced to them at an early age. There is almost never a gun accident or some kid killing his friend because of showing off a gun. However, when a kid has no clue about guns and he, with his friends run across dad's pistol.....well......we've read about that.

PP

Having grown up around guns I do agree with these statements. IF people chose to have guns in their homes with children, then it is a MUST that they socialize their kids around these kids, teach them how to properly hold and use them, not to turn the kids into marksmen, but rather that the kids know not to play with the gun, and if they ever do pick up a gun, they will know what to do and what not to do. There is simply NOTHING hidden in a house from an inquisitive 9 or 10 year old, if any of y'all think you are hiding anything your kids have surely fooled you well Wink



stay blessed,
habte selassie

In this I think most of us agree. 
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« Reply #109 on: January 23, 2012, 06:19:49 PM »

Back to the original intent of this thread:

Double barrel 20 bore Howdah Pistol, percussion locks.  This one is pretty fun to shoot.
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« Reply #110 on: January 23, 2012, 06:27:43 PM »

It looks like women don't have any sane reasons to own guns.

Some people like to compete in shooting. 
It's also an Olympic sport.

Do they use automatic rifles?

Semi-automatic.  Yes.  IPSC 3-gun matches.  NRA High Power matches.  Various club matches such as bowling pin shoots.  The first centerfire semi-auto rifle that I owned was for use in bowling pin shoots.  The first semi-auto pistols that I owned were for use in IPSC and IDPA matches.  At the time, I carried revolvers for self defense.  Most of the guys that shot NRA Bullseye matches when I lived in Wisconsin used semi-auto pistols for the .45 cal class and the .22 rimfire class.  I was unusual in that I used revolvers for all three.
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« Reply #111 on: January 23, 2012, 07:10:56 PM »


Pistol:

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« Reply #112 on: January 24, 2012, 03:54:27 AM »

A agree in many cases that the scriptures are the best defense.   If you are a monk or nun, or single layman, I could understand the detest at any types of guns.

As a family man, who has a wife and 5 children, I would never go without a gun.  It is my responsibility who has been blessed with the stewardship of raising the souls of these children to protect them at all costs.     My eldest kids know how to shoot well and know gun safety.  In fact our eldest daughter's nickname is "Little Annie Oakley". (she is a crack shot to the likes I've never seen before).

I believe as Christians, we are to practice non-resistance to most degrees.

However in Luke 12:39 we read - 39 But know this, that if the owner of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into.

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« Reply #113 on: January 24, 2012, 04:59:40 PM »

Like others I don't have photos handy~as a former US Marine I'm a bit of a gun guy.  My collection includes:

S&W Model 60 .38 (daily carry gun)
Ruger MkII .22 (5.5" SS)
Ruger Redhawk .44 Mag (5.5" SS)
Marlin 1894 Lever .44 Mag
Beretta 92FS 9mm
Beretta 3032 .32 ACP
T/C Contender (.22 & .357 barrels)

Here in PA "open carry" is allowed but I err on the side of discretion and keep it covered...I've been carrying since the mid 90/s, not long after my first son was born.  My background includes time spent with the mennonites so I have a "nonresistant" background but for some reason fatherhood seemed to increase my responsibilities to defending the defenseless...

I've been lurking for awhile~guess this is my first post...greetings, especially to my TAW brothers & sisters Smiley
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« Reply #114 on: January 24, 2012, 05:07:59 PM »


I don't own a gun, and don't feel I need one.  I think I would get myself in to more trouble with it than without.  But, that's just me.

However, many folks around me go hunting, and own firearms.  As long as they know how to use it, and use it responsibly more power to them.  I would probably be happy to have neighbors with guns, if we were attacked by rabid dogs or something.

However, I know a few people at work who own automatic and semi-automatics.  Unless you are a war veteran and that is "your" gun (do soldiers even get to keep their guns?), I don't see why you would need it.  Perhaps if you live in a land where "war" is constantly looming....but, in the U.S.?  Why would you need one?
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« Reply #115 on: January 24, 2012, 05:08:54 PM »

Like others I don't have photos handy~as a former US Marine I'm a bit of a gun guy.  My collection includes:

S&W Model 60 .38 (daily carry gun)
Ruger MkII .22 (5.5" SS)
Ruger Redhawk .44 Mag (5.5" SS)
Marlin 1894 Lever .44 Mag
Beretta 92FS 9mm
Beretta 3032 .32 ACP
T/C Contender (.22 & .357 barrels)

Here in PA "open carry" is allowed but I err on the side of discretion and keep it covered...I've been carrying since the mid 90/s, not long after my first son was born.  My background includes time spent with the mennonites so I have a "nonresistant" background but for some reason fatherhood seemed to increase my responsibilities to defending the defenseless...

I've been lurking for awhile~guess this is my first post...greetings, especially to my TAW brothers & sisters Smiley

Nice. be careful mate. I know where Im at, there is open carry, but if your shirt happens to fall over it and you're in public, you gotta have a conceal license or you go bye bye.

PP
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« Reply #116 on: January 24, 2012, 07:33:12 PM »

Like others I don't have photos handy~as a former US Marine I'm a bit of a gun guy.  My collection includes:

S&W Model 60 .38 (daily carry gun)
Ruger MkII .22 (5.5" SS)
Ruger Redhawk .44 Mag (5.5" SS)
Marlin 1894 Lever .44 Mag
Beretta 92FS 9mm
Beretta 3032 .32 ACP
T/C Contender (.22 & .357 barrels)

Here in PA "open carry" is allowed but I err on the side of discretion and keep it covered...I've been carrying since the mid 90/s, not long after my first son was born.  My background includes time spent with the mennonites so I have a "nonresistant" background but for some reason fatherhood seemed to increase my responsibilities to defending the defenseless...

I've been lurking for awhile~guess this is my first post...greetings, especially to my TAW brothers & sisters Smiley

Nice. be careful mate. I know where Im at, there is open carry, but if your shirt happens to fall over it and you're in public, you gotta have a conceal license or you go bye bye.

PP

I've had permit/license to carry since the mid 90/s~~you're right though.
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« Reply #117 on: January 24, 2012, 09:01:34 PM »

Like others I don't have photos handy~as a former US Marine I'm a bit of a gun guy.  My collection includes:

S&W Model 60 .38 (daily carry gun)
Ruger MkII .22 (5.5" SS)
Ruger Redhawk .44 Mag (5.5" SS)
Marlin 1894 Lever .44 Mag
Beretta 92FS 9mm
Beretta 3032 .32 ACP
T/C Contender (.22 & .357 barrels)

Here in PA "open carry" is allowed but I err on the side of discretion and keep it covered...I've been carrying since the mid 90/s, not long after my first son was born.  My background includes time spent with the mennonites so I have a "nonresistant" background but for some reason fatherhood seemed to increase my responsibilities to defending the defenseless...

I've been lurking for awhile~guess this is my first post...greetings, especially to my TAW brothers & sisters Smiley

Welcome to the open air MrJim, nice to meet you.  Smiley
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« Reply #118 on: January 24, 2012, 09:09:43 PM »


However, I know a few people at work who own automatic and semi-automatics.  Unless you are a war veteran and that is "your" gun (do soldiers even get to keep their guns?), I don't see why you would need it.  Perhaps if you live in a land where "war" is constantly looming....but, in the U.S.?  Why would you need one?


What does the operating system have to do with need?  Do you have specific knowledge to back up your thoughts or are you just regurgitating what you have heard on TV?
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« Reply #119 on: January 24, 2012, 09:17:02 PM »

Maybe she has her own opinion, which may not be the same as yours. Go figure!
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« Reply #120 on: January 25, 2012, 10:25:19 AM »

Maybe she has her own opinion, which may not be the same as yours. Go figure!

Sometimes people's opinions affect other people's lives (voting and governance come to mind).  This is one of those issues where someone with an opinion can affect other people's rights.  If Liza never votes on any issue regarding firearms then it is a harmless opinion and should be taken as that.  If she votes regarding this issue then it should be other people's right to try and challenge or change her opinion through reasoned debate - democracy in action.

So Liza, (and Biro, you are more than welcome to chime in as well), I'd be interested to know what the operating system has to do with the necessity of the rifle?  Do you think that delayed blowback and direct blowback should also be discussed?  If you believe that only manual actions should be necessary, should it be limited to bolt action or rolling block, or are rapid firing lever actions also acceptable?

As for your questions, Liza, soldiers generally do not get to keep their weapons. If they supplier their own sidearm I don't see why they would not be allowed to, but more often than not, their issued weapons go back to Uncle Sam or are sold off to third world nations after their time is complete.  

Also, keep in mind that modern insurgencies are not won by fully-automatic rifles, but by sniper rifles and bombs.  "Assault" Rifles are mostly for curiosity.  In fact, Assault Rifle ownership in the US is very low.  By definition, assault rifles are chambered in an intermediate caliber and have select fire.  Most civilian "assault rifles" are actually semi-automatic carbines converted from existing assault rifles.
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« Reply #121 on: January 25, 2012, 10:38:23 AM »

Quote
So Liza, (and Biro, you are more than welcome to chime in as well), I'd be interested to know what the operating system has to do with the necessity of the rifle?  Do you think that delayed blowback and direct blowback should also be discussed?  If you believe that only manual actions should be necessary, should it be limited to bolt action or rolling block, or are rapid firing lever actions also acceptable?
So true....I mean really, how silly is this quote:

"Ya know, these people in the mall are lucky that this rifle is a semi-automatic or I'd kill them all....instead Im going to Baskin Robins......"

PP
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« Reply #122 on: January 25, 2012, 10:50:13 AM »

Quote
So Liza, (and Biro, you are more than welcome to chime in as well), I'd be interested to know what the operating system has to do with the necessity of the rifle?  Do you think that delayed blowback and direct blowback should also be discussed?  If you believe that only manual actions should be necessary, should it be limited to bolt action or rolling block, or are rapid firing lever actions also acceptable?
So true....I mean really, how silly is this quote:

"Ya know, these people in the mall are lucky that this rifle is a semi-automatic or I'd kill them all....instead Im going to Baskin Robins......"

PP

In actuality, if the rifle was full auto they'd probably kill less.  Auto dumps the mag too quickly.   Wink
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« Reply #123 on: January 25, 2012, 10:59:15 AM »

Quote
So Liza, (and Biro, you are more than welcome to chime in as well), I'd be interested to know what the operating system has to do with the necessity of the rifle?  Do you think that delayed blowback and direct blowback should also be discussed?  If you believe that only manual actions should be necessary, should it be limited to bolt action or rolling block, or are rapid firing lever actions also acceptable?
So true....I mean really, how silly is this quote:

"Ya know, these people in the mall are lucky that this rifle is a semi-automatic or I'd kill them all....instead Im going to Baskin Robins......"

PP

In actuality, if the rifle was full auto they'd probably kill less.  Auto dumps the mag too quickly.   Wink
laugh laugh laugh
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« Reply #124 on: January 25, 2012, 01:14:07 PM »


However, I know a few people at work who own automatic and semi-automatics.  Unless you are a war veteran and that is "your" gun (do soldiers even get to keep their guns?), I don't see why you would need it.  Perhaps if you live in a land where "war" is constantly looming....but, in the U.S.?  Why would you need one?


What does the operating system have to do with need?  Do you have specific knowledge to back up your thoughts or are you just regurgitating what you have heard on TV?

What's with the attitude?  I was just asking a question.  When have you known me to simply regurgitate what I hear on TV?  I hardly even watch TV!

I have never claimed to be a firearms expert, however, from what little I think I know....rifles can be used for hunting animals for food, target practice, etc.  Semi and automatic weapons are geared for destruction of human life.

Am I wrong?

If I am not wrong, why would anyone in America (other than the armed forces and security personnel) need a weapon of that caliber?

I'm just asking....give me a polite answer.  I have enough people snipping at me at work, I don't need you giving me attitude, too.

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« Reply #125 on: January 25, 2012, 01:22:29 PM »


However, I know a few people at work who own automatic and semi-automatics.  Unless you are a war veteran and that is "your" gun (do soldiers even get to keep their guns?), I don't see why you would need it.  Perhaps if you live in a land where "war" is constantly looming....but, in the U.S.?  Why would you need one?


What does the operating system have to do with need?  Do you have specific knowledge to back up your thoughts or are you just regurgitating what you have heard on TV?

What's with the attitude?  I was just asking a question.  When have you known me to simply regurgitate what I hear on TV?  I hardly even watch TV!

I have never claimed to be a firearms expert, however, from what little I think I know....rifles can be used for hunting animals for food, target practice, etc.  Semi and automatic weapons are geared for destruction of human life.

Am I wrong?

If I am not wrong, why would anyone in America (other than the armed forces and security personnel) need a weapon of that caliber?
I'm just asking....give me a polite answer.  I have enough people snipping at me at work, I don't need you giving me attitude, too.



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« Reply #126 on: January 25, 2012, 02:13:28 PM »

Quote
So Liza, (and Biro, you are more than welcome to chime in as well), I'd be interested to know what the operating system has to do with the necessity of the rifle?  Do you think that delayed blowback and direct blowback should also be discussed?  If you believe that only manual actions should be necessary, should it be limited to bolt action or rolling block, or are rapid firing lever actions also acceptable?
So true....I mean really, how silly is this quote:

"Ya know, these people in the mall are lucky that this rifle is a semi-automatic or I'd kill them all....instead Im going to Baskin Robins......"

PP

Then why aren't we all dead already?

Why do I hear on the news about people shooting up a mall or an office, and it's either the cops respond, or nobody does and the killer shoots himself? Why do I never hear about some clever fellow popping up and saying "I'll save you!" and shooting the criminal with a gun fresh from the cabinet at home?

Oh, because there's already a bunch of people whom I pay to tote guns and keep me safe: the police.

Let me know when every Tom, Dick and Harry is actually going to do that. Until then, keep your fantasies.
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« Reply #127 on: January 25, 2012, 02:24:39 PM »

Quote
Why do I hear on the news about people shooting up a mall or an office, and it's either the cops respond, or nobody does and the killer shoots himself? Why do I never hear about some clever fellow popping up and saying "I'll save you!" and shooting the criminal with a gun fresh from the cabinet at home?
because in most areas (like my work) even you are legally able to carry a firearm, you can not enter the premises with it. BTW it happens quite a bit that someone takes down the offender.

Quote
Oh, because there's already a bunch of people whom I pay to tote guns and keep me safe: the police
When every second counts, the police are only minutes away.....

Quote
t me know when every Tom, Dick and Harry is actually going to do that. Until then, keep your fantasies
If Tom, Dick, and harry were allowed to exercise their constitutional rights, my fantasy would be a reality.

note: in Virginia, you may openly carry (can not be concealed in any way, even by a shirt) with no license or going through scrutiny (except however, criminal background check, and also a psychological questionnaire). How many last year got mugged? 0. Thats right, not a single one. Violent crime?  Infact, when guns were allowed into bars in the state, every gun control advocate screamed that bars and restaurants would turn into shooting galleries. What happened? immidately a 5% drop in crime at these establishments.


Another fact, if you will:

More than 200 permit holders were also convicted of gun- or weapon-related felonies or misdemeanors, including roughly 60 who committed weapon-related assaults." That's a dozen gun assaults a year. How many permit holders are there in North Carolina? More than 240,000. So 0.2 percent of them are convicted of a non-traffic-related offense each year, about 0.017 percent are convicted of a felony, and only 0.005 percent are convicted of a gun assault
(http://www.opposingviews.com/i/society/crime/legal-concealed-gun-carriers-are-quite-law-abiding - which sites a ny times story)

PP
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« Reply #128 on: January 25, 2012, 02:29:49 PM »

Quote
So Liza, (and Biro, you are more than welcome to chime in as well), I'd be interested to know what the operating system has to do with the necessity of the rifle?  Do you think that delayed blowback and direct blowback should also be discussed?  If you believe that only manual actions should be necessary, should it be limited to bolt action or rolling block, or are rapid firing lever actions also acceptable?
So true....I mean really, how silly is this quote:

"Ya know, these people in the mall are lucky that this rifle is a semi-automatic or I'd kill them all....instead Im going to Baskin Robins......"

PP

 

In actuality, if the rifle was full auto they'd probably kill less.  Auto dumps the mag too quickly.   Wink

QFT

I know this first hand from firing several full automatic and select fire weapons.  They used to hold falling plate matches in Wisconsin during the 1980's, and I remember a fellow who entered with his Thompson SMG.  The guys with the 1911's beat him every time.  EVERY time!.
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« Reply #129 on: January 25, 2012, 02:48:25 PM »


However, I know a few people at work who own automatic and semi-automatics.  Unless you are a war veteran and that is "your" gun (do soldiers even get to keep their guns?), I don't see why you would need it.  Perhaps if you live in a land where "war" is constantly looming....but, in the U.S.?  Why would you need one?


What does the operating system have to do with need?  Do you have specific knowledge to back up your thoughts or are you just regurgitating what you have heard on TV?

What's with the attitude?  I was just asking a question.  When have you known me to simply regurgitate what I hear on TV?  I hardly even watch TV!

I have never claimed to be a firearms expert, however, from what little I think I know....rifles can be used for hunting animals for food, target practice, etc.  Semi and automatic weapons are geared for destruction of human life.

Am I wrong?

If I am not wrong, why would anyone in America (other than the armed forces and security personnel) need a weapon of that caliber?

I'm just asking....give me a polite answer.  I have enough people snipping at me at work, I don't need you giving me attitude, too.



Yes.  The bolt action Mauser rifle has probably killed more people in combat than any other.  If you study the Cuban revolution, you will see that Castro himself preferred the bolt action over the semi-auto.  People using a bolt action or single shot usually know how to hit what they shoot with one shot.  Even our military snipers use bolt action weapons in warfare (most of them).  If you want to reach out and touch your target, a semi-auto is not always the best weapon to use.  Of course, there are exceptions such as the excellent Dragunov rifle, and accurized M-14 Springfields (and M-1A rifles).

And caliber refers to the diameter of the bore, not the type of action.  Most hunting weapons are far larger than the current military weapons, which I would not use for hunting anything larger than dogs.  The older 7.62 Nato caliber weapons like my FAL are another matter.  Still not as powerful as a .300 Magnum, 416 Rigby or .500 Nitro Express.

As to semi-automatic hunting and target weapons, there are many.  Most purpose designed hunting semi-autos have NO military use or application.  The current BAR (Browning Automatic Rifle) is a premium hunting arm that would not survive the rigors of war.  Remington also makes a semi-automatic hunting rifle.  Semi-automatic shotguns are extremely common both in the field and on trap and skeet ranges.  Semi-automatic pistols are the norm when it comes to competition of nearly any kind other than silhouette shooting.

Nearly all rifles used, and which are useful, for military application are selective fire - not semi-automatic.  The exception to this would be the remaining FAL rifles that were produced semi-auto only because experience with the selective fire ones showed them to be uncontrollable in full auto.  This has not always been true, but it is the current standard.

Are there weapons out there solely made for killing people?  You bet there are.  But, so what.  Most of us who own firearms also believe that it is our right to defend ourselves from predators, human and animal.  And those of us who believe in the Second Amendment of our Constitution consider any weapon suitable for police work to be suitable for self defense.  This brings in weapons such as the AR-15, AK-47 and AK-74 which are primarily designed to kill people.  However, even these are MOSTLY used, in the US at least, for sporting purposes.
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« Reply #130 on: January 25, 2012, 02:59:15 PM »


Why do I hear on the news about people shooting up a mall or an office, and it's either the cops respond, or nobody does and the killer shoots himself? Why do I never hear about some clever fellow popping up and saying "I'll save you!" and shooting the criminal with a gun fresh from the cabinet at home?


Because I carry my gun to protect me, not to protect you.  If you care so little about your life that you trust some other yahoo to protect it, I sure as heck am not going to risk my life for it.  I protect what is valuable to me.  People who will not help themselves are of no value to me.  I gave this talk to a group of people after the Von Maur shooting.  Some of them now carry firearms, too.  To date, nobody issued a Nebraska CHP has been the victim of a crime while they were carrying (at least not that I know of).  That is the statistic that I count.  How many crimes they have prevented against others is of no value to me because, as you stated, it is the job of the police to protect the sheep.

As to the last clause of your statement, it does not make sense.  But then again, neither do any of your anti-gun arguments.
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« Reply #131 on: January 25, 2012, 03:19:18 PM »


Punch, I know you were talking to Biro, however, I hope you don't consider me "anti-gun".  I'm not. 

However, I know a few folks at work who brag about their AK-47's.  If you knew the people, you would be worried that they own them.....and regularly target practice off their balcony in a densely populated subdivision environment.

These are the same people who drive a bright yellow Hummer, only so they can brag they've got the biggest car in the parking lot.

It's not so much the guns that bother me, as who owns them and for what reasons.

....and as for your above comment about using your gun to only protect yourself and your loved ones....well, that's not very Christian of you.  What about taking care of your neighbors?  Smiley 

Heroes are usually those who step up when there's a need, whether they know the people or not.


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« Reply #132 on: January 25, 2012, 03:33:52 PM »

Quote from: Punch
Because I carry my gun to protect me, not to protect you.

That says a lot.

Well, I don't have something against the cops; that seems to be the difference. My grandfather and many of my cousins were police officers for a number of years. I respect them.

I respect the law. I don't think it's necessary to repeal the Second Amendment. I do think it's necessary to have a well-regulated milita... which is only going by the Bill of Rights.
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« Reply #133 on: January 25, 2012, 04:15:02 PM »

Quote
However, I know a few folks at work who brag about their AK-47's.  If you knew the people, you would be worried that they own them.....and regularly target practice off their balcony in a densely populated subdivision environment.
Then these people have bigger problems than guns, your police are inept. You cant shoot guns in a sub division.

Quote
t's not so much the guns that bother me, as who owns them and for what reasons
For every "few" people that are like the above, there are thousands, perhaps millions that dont.
Quote
and as for your above comment about using your gun to only protect yourself and your loved ones....well, that's not very Christian of you.  What about taking care of your neighbors?
I understand what he originally said. Im not going to buy a gun for the reason of defending the world, or even my neighbor. If someone breaks into his house, I wont be awakened by it. Using glib responses doesn't do much.

PP
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« Reply #134 on: January 25, 2012, 04:17:09 PM »

Quote from: Punch
Because I carry my gun to protect me, not to protect you.

That says a lot.

Well, I don't have something against the cops; that seems to be the difference. My grandfather and many of my cousins were police officers for a number of years. I respect them.

I respect the law. I don't think it's necessary to repeal the Second Amendment. I do think it's necessary to have a well-regulated milita... which is only going by the Bill of Rights.

Not everyone who advocates gun ownership for protection has "something against cops". The reality is that police are mainly useful after a crime, to investigate and capture, or useful at preventing crime by patrolling often through neighborhoods. Unless the crime takes a long time to commit or happens to be happening at the exact time they pass by there is a certain physical impossibility in them stopping that crime. That's not disrespectful to police, unless acknowledging our police officers do not happen to get shipped here from an exploding alien planet and raised by a kindly couple in Kansas is some form of disrespect.

(As a disclaimer- I do have something against cops. Living in Chicago for a decade will do that. The police in Chicago manage to shoot more innocent people each year than gang-bangers- how messed up is that?)
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"Funny," said Lancelot, "how the people who can't pray say that prayers are not answered, however much the people who can pray say they are."  TH White

Oh, no: I've succumbed to Hyperdoxy!
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