Author Topic: Communing in Russian Church  (Read 2774 times)

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Offline KShaft

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Communing in Russian Church
« on: January 19, 2012, 07:26:45 PM »
 Alright. I Communed today at a Russian Church (ROCOR) today and they had a peculiar tradition that I have not seen before. 

After taking in the Eucharist you are supposed to walk around on the Solea to the left side, drink the water or wine they have provided, and stay on the left side until dismissed.

Now I attend an OCA Church which is Russian essentially. We typically take the Eucharist and walk to the left where there is some water or wine to help wash down the Body and Blood, but its not a manditory thing, and if someone went right I dont think anyone would care.  The Serbian parish and Ukrainian parishes I have attended dont do this either so it took me by surprise.  I mean I walked away after kissing the Chalice and crossing myself and the Starotsa and a guy who has been friendly to me  nearly had a cow about it.
"You must go back and go to your left and drink the cup by the grandmother, and then you must stay there until dissmissed." Now if he had said to me "Hey, its a tradition of ours here to walk to the left and yada yada yada... just so you know for next time."  It wouldnt have been so bad. I felt like I tried to Commune with my hands or something (You know RC style!).

Now I appreciate holding on to Tradition for fidelity to the Faith but this to me is just a local tradition (emphasis little "t")  that is elevated to  levels beyond what they should be.

Is this a practice at all Russian Churches?

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Re: Communing in Russian Church
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2012, 07:32:31 PM »
I've been in three ROCOR parishes, and don't recall seeing such a custom, for what that's worth.

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Re: Communing in Russian Church
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2012, 07:48:28 PM »
The Russian custom of a post-communion drink of warm water and wine is called zapivka. Asteriktos' experience is definitely the exception, not the rule. I've yet to attend any Russian church which omits this practice.
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Online Justin Kissel

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Re: Communing in Russian Church
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2012, 07:50:29 PM »
The Russian custom of a post-communion drink of warm water and wine is called zapivka. Asteriktos' experience is definitely the exception, not the rule. I've yet to attend any Russian church which omits this practice.

I don't know if it has anything to do with this, but one of the ROCOR parishes was a former OCA parish, and one a former Carpatho-Russian parish. The third parish I only attended a couple times while attending someone's baptism that I knew from online, and that was in 2003, so my memory might just be betraying me.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2012, 07:51:53 PM by Asteriktos »

Offline mike

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Re: Communing in Russian Church
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2012, 07:51:06 PM »
It's maybe to stop the communers from shambling back and forth (take antidorion, greet some friends en route, go back to your place, look for children etc.) before the service is finished.

I've not seen that.
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Re: Communing in Russian Church
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2012, 07:58:21 PM »
Never been to a ROCOR parish, but FWIW the OCA parish I did attend everyone drank some wine and ate antidoron after communing. There was no "staying to the left until dismissed" however, as given the small size of the building and ever increasing numbers of the parish this would have been quite impossible (barring some sort of space-warping miracle). Going to the right also was not done, though I don't know if this was tradition, or due to the fact of the aforementioned impossibilities of space.
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Re: Communing in Russian Church
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2012, 08:50:26 PM »

In my Ukrainian church, everyone approaches Holy Communion and then "exits" left, to drink a tiny bit of wine (zapivka) and eat a small piece of antidoron (prosphora).  This is to ensure that none of the Holy Gifts remain on your tongue, and don't inadvertently get expelled while sneezing, talking, etc.

We DO congregate on the left and stand there until everyone in line has taken Holy Communion.

When the priest once again comes out on the ambo with the Chalic (covered this time) everyone approaches once again to get touched on the head by it.

Many people who did not take Holy Communion also get in line to be touched by Christ!

Many folks don't know this, and if they seem "approachable" I've kindly tapped them on the arm as they flew passed me to return to their spots.....however, some folks I just don't say anything to, because they look really "scared" and I don't want to embarrass them in front of everyone.  Usually when they get back to their "spot" and realize everyone is still up front, they eventually wonder back on their own.

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Offline witega

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Re: Communing in Russian Church
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2012, 08:58:18 PM »
Every OCA or ROCOR parish I've ever attended has had the zapivka and prosphora for after communion (also St. Nikolai Cathedral in Japan which is from the same tradition). It's normally on the left but in parishes large enough to use more than one chalice, there's one on the right as well.

Never seen anyone be strict about monitoring who actually goes to the table or not though.
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Offline Ionnis

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Re: Communing in Russian Church
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2012, 09:03:15 PM »
I've attended many ROCOR churches, including cathedrals and monasteries and have never seen this practice of congregating in a certain part of the church until the dismissal. 
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Offline HandmaidenofGod

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Re: Communing in Russian Church
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2012, 09:42:01 PM »

In my Ukrainian church, everyone approaches Holy Communion and then "exits" left, to drink a tiny bit of wine (zapivka) and eat a small piece of antidoron (prosphora).  This is to ensure that none of the Holy Gifts remain on your tongue, and don't inadvertently get expelled while sneezing, talking, etc.

We DO congregate on the left and stand there until everyone in line has taken Holy Communion.

When the priest once again comes out on the ambo with the Chalic (covered this time) everyone approaches once again to get touched on the head by it.

We follow this practice as well in my parish.

The "tap on the head" thing I have only seen done in Ukrainian parishes.

The zapivka custom is followed in OCA and ROCOR parishes I have been to, but I've not seen it done in the Greek or Antiochian parishes I've visited.
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Offline KShaft

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Re: Communing in Russian Church
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2012, 10:13:34 PM »

In my Ukrainian church, everyone approaches Holy Communion and then "exits" left, to drink a tiny bit of wine (zapivka) and eat a small piece of antidoron (prosphora).  This is to ensure that none of the Holy Gifts remain on your tongue, and don't inadvertently get expelled while sneezing, talking, etc.

We DO congregate on the left and stand there until everyone in line has taken Holy Communion.

When the priest once again comes out on the ambo with the Chalic (covered this time) everyone approaches once again to get touched on the head by it.

Many people who did not take Holy Communion also get in line to be touched by Christ!

Many folks don't know this, and if they seem "approachable" I've kindly tapped them on the arm as they flew passed me to return to their spots.....however, some folks I just don't say anything to, because they look really "scared" and I don't want to embarrass them in front of everyone.  Usually when they get back to their "spot" and realize everyone is still up front, they eventually wonder back on their own.



This sounds about right except for the tap tap.  That isnt even in the Ukrainian Parishes I go to from time to time.

Offline KShaft

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Re: Communing in Russian Church
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2012, 10:22:09 PM »
Every OCA or ROCOR parish I've ever attended has had the zapivka and prosphora for after communion (also St. Nikolai Cathedral in Japan which is from the same tradition). It's normally on the left but in parishes large enough to use more than one chalice, there's one on the right as well.

Never seen anyone be strict about monitoring who actually goes to the table or not though.

Well they do have this at the OCA parish I go to but there is no mandatory drink or eating nor staying there and we move on.  The only time we stay there is after the kissing of the cross and then singing our parish troparia and the dismissal "Lord have mercy" and thats just us choir guys.

Offline KShaft

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Re: Communing in Russian Church
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2012, 10:25:28 PM »
I've attended many ROCOR churches, including cathedrals and monasteries and have never seen this practice of congregating in a certain part of the church until the dismissal. 

Thank you all ROCOR members for making me feel somewhat less insane.  I seriously thought I blew my nose on the antimension or something.


Offline Hamartolos

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Re: Communing in Russian Church
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2012, 10:49:51 PM »

In my Ukrainian church, everyone approaches Holy Communion and then "exits" left, to drink a tiny bit of wine (zapivka) and eat a small piece of antidoron (prosphora).  This is to ensure that none of the Holy Gifts remain on your tongue, and don't inadvertently get expelled while sneezing, talking, etc.

We DO congregate on the left and stand there until everyone in line has taken Holy Communion.

When the priest once again comes out on the ambo with the Chalic (covered this time) everyone approaches once again to get touched on the head by it.

We follow this practice as well in my parish.

The "tap on the head" thing I have only seen done in Ukrainian parishes.

The zapivka custom is followed in OCA and ROCOR parishes I have been to, but I've not seen it done in the Greek or Antiochian parishes I've visited.

Yeah we have nothing like this..at least in any Antiochian or Greek church I've been to.  There used to be a custom of moving to the left after communion but it was pretty impractical and hasn't been done in our church for a long time.

Offline Paisius

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Re: Communing in Russian Church
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2012, 11:21:21 PM »
I've attended many ROCOR churches, including cathedrals and monasteries and have never seen this practice of congregating in a certain part of the church until the dismissal. 

Thank you all ROCOR members for making me feel somewhat less insane.  I seriously thought I blew my nose on the antimension or something.




Some people do take these customs very seriously. I wouldn't let it upset me too much as they mean well. Just do your best to follow the customs of which ever parish you find yourself in and don't sweat it if you mess up a little.

Offline JamesRottnek

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Re: Communing in Russian Church
« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2012, 03:04:39 AM »
I've attended many ROCOR churches, including cathedrals and monasteries and have never seen this practice of congregating in a certain part of the church until the dismissal. 

Thank you all ROCOR members for making me feel somewhat less insane.  I seriously thought I blew my nose on the antimension or something.




Some people do take these customs very seriously. I wouldn't let it upset me too much as they mean well. Just do your best to follow the customs of which ever parish you find yourself in and don't sweat it if you mess up a little.

It may also be possible that the fellow in question had never been to a service done in any other fashion, and consequently didn't realize that it isn't a requirement.


Anyways, as to the tap on the head by the chalice, I know that - in my parish - those who aren't receiving communion (either because they have personal reasons, or are not yet Orthodox) may come up to the chalice to receive a communion blessing, that includes being touched on the head by the chalice.
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Offline Νεκτάριος

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Re: Communing in Russian Church
« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2012, 08:49:42 AM »
The "tap on the head" thing I have only seen done in Ukrainian parishes.

I've actually never seen that done in Ukraine. 

Offline Punch

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Re: Communing in Russian Church
« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2012, 09:36:59 AM »
Thos practice was done in both ROCOR Churches that I have attended.  It is not done in the Serbian Church where I currently attend.
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Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: Communing in Russian Church
« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2012, 07:19:19 PM »
Thos practice was done in both ROCOR Churches that I have attended.  It is not done in the Serbian Church where I currently attend.

I think it is disappearing.  Worries about spillage.

Offline Joseph Hazen

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Re: Communing in Russian Church
« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2012, 09:30:17 PM »
For what it's worth I have heard of some people being very stern about taking antidoron if you've communed, to ensure that what removes any particles of the Eucharist from our mouths is blessed bread (and wine, I imagine, in the case of zapivka) and that the first thing we eat after Communion is blessed bread.


Offline Gorazd

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Re: Communing in Russian Church
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2012, 02:06:45 PM »
I think zapivka should be abolished, since both Ukraine and Russia have a major problem of alcoholism.

Offline mike

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Re: Communing in Russian Church
« Reply #21 on: January 25, 2012, 02:11:14 PM »
WOW^
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Offline Manalive

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Re: Communing in Russian Church
« Reply #22 on: January 25, 2012, 02:17:22 PM »
What is alcoholism in the States and elsewhere is standard drinking in Russia. Don't ever try hanging with those guys when they offer you vodka shots.
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Offline Νεκτάριος

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Re: Communing in Russian Church
« Reply #23 on: January 25, 2012, 06:45:07 PM »
What is alcoholism in the States and elsewhere is standard drinking in Russia. Don't ever try hanging with those guys when they offer you vodka shots.

Something to be proud of  ::)

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Re: Communing in Russian Church
« Reply #24 on: January 26, 2012, 01:58:21 AM »
What is alcoholism in the States and elsewhere is standard drinking in Russia. Don't ever try hanging with those guys when they offer you vodka shots.

Something to be proud of  ::)

I don't know about proud, but there is something messed up about a country where psychiatrists say three drinks in a day is "binge drinking". The US is far too (puritanical doesn't work, the Puritans drank beer, I'd say WASPy, except White Anglo Saxon Protestants in England drink more than we do, too bad there's no understood short-hand for "Southern Baptist") about substances.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2012, 01:58:41 AM by FormerReformer »
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Offline Νεκτάριος

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Re: Communing in Russian Church
« Reply #25 on: January 26, 2012, 05:40:55 AM »
What is alcoholism in the States and elsewhere is standard drinking in Russia. Don't ever try hanging with those guys when they offer you vodka shots.

Something to be proud of  ::)

I don't know about proud, but there is something messed up about a country where psychiatrists say three drinks in a day is "binge drinking". The US is far too (puritanical doesn't work, the Puritans drank beer, I'd say WASPy, except White Anglo Saxon Protestants in England drink more than we do, too bad there's no understood short-hand for "Southern Baptist") about substances.

I'm going to guess that if you are praising the drinking culture of Russia, you've never lived in the former USSR.  There is no such thing as moderate drinking here.  People drink to get drunk.  If you had to walk home through poorly lit neighborhoods packed with aggressive and violent drunks, you'd probably be wishing for more of a Southern Baptist culture.  When you take public transport during the middle of the day and are immediately hit with a strong перегар (smell of alcohol coming from a person) it isn't a good feeling.  Why is having more than three drinks a day normal?   

   

Offline witega

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Re: Communing in Russian Church
« Reply #26 on: January 26, 2012, 01:52:46 PM »
a country where psychiatrists say three drinks in a day is "binge drinking".

 Why is having more than three drinks a day normal?   

Not the same thing. FormerReformer is talking about the fact that there are those in the US who consider it 'binge drinking' if you don't drink anything all week then go out with friends on the weekend and have 4 beers. That's rather different than someone having a minimum of 4 beers every single day.

(Personally I'd say that both the American Temperance strain that fears all alcohol and the Russian situation you're describing are both unhealthy extremes, but they are different extremes)
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Offline Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)

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Re: Communing in Russian Church
« Reply #27 on: January 26, 2012, 03:31:22 PM »
a country where psychiatrists say three drinks in a day is "binge drinking".

 Why is having more than three drinks a day normal?   

Not the same thing. FormerReformer is talking about the fact that there are those in the US who consider it 'binge drinking' if you don't drink anything all week then go out with friends on the weekend and have 4 beers. That's rather different than someone having a minimum of 4 beers every single day.

(Personally I'd say that both the American Temperance strain that fears all alcohol and the Russian situation you're describing are both unhealthy extremes, but they are different extremes)

Binge drinking is an indicator of possible Substance Abuse Disorders (SUD) problem, It is defined as "According to the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and AlcoholismExternal Web Site Icon binge drinking is defined as a pattern of alcohol consumption that brings the blood alcohol concentration (BAC) level to 0.08% or more. This pattern of drinking usually corresponds to 5 or more drinks on a single occasion for men or 4 or more drinks on a single occasion for women, generally within about 2 hours." http://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/faqs.htm#bingeDrinking

Decrying the American Temperance strain is not helpful because some folks are genetically predisposed to fall victim to alcoholism. That does NOT mean that we should resurrect prohibition but it does mean not glorifying drinking or maintaining that it is a God-given right. Drinking in moderation is indeed not a problem for most people but one never knows if it flowers into an addiction, a disease. Just like nicotine, another legal psychoactive substance, alcohol is potentially deadly.

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Re: Communing in Russian Church
« Reply #28 on: January 26, 2012, 05:02:16 PM »
Crap...does that mean Im an alcoholic? I have 2-3 glasses of wine a day......

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Offline Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)

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Re: Communing in Russian Church
« Reply #29 on: January 26, 2012, 05:38:06 PM »
Crap...does that mean Im an alcoholic? I have 2-3 glasses of wine a day......

PP

For the benefit of our readers, here is additional information from the CDC site:

How do I know if it’s okay to drink?
The current Dietary Guidelines for Americans1 recommend that if you choose to drink alcoholic beverages, do not exceed 1 drink per day for women or 2 drinks per day for men. According to the guidelines, people who should not drink alcoholic beverages at all include the following:

    * Children and adolescents.
    * Individuals of any age who cannot limit their drinking to low level.
    * Women who may become pregnant or who are pregnant.
    * Individuals who plan to drive, operate machinery, or take part in other activities that require attention, skill, or coordination.
    * Individuals taking prescription or over-the-counter medications that can interact with alcohol.
    * Individuals with certain medical conditions.
    * Persons recovering from alcoholism.

What do you mean by heavy drinking?
For men, heavy drinking is typically defined as consuming an average of more than 2 drinks per day. For women, heavy drinking is typically defined as consuming an average of more than 1 drink per day.

Why do some people react differently to alcohol than others?
Individual reactions to alcohol vary, and are influenced by many factors; such as:

    * Age.
    * Gender.
    * Race or ethnicity.
    * Physical condition (weight, fitness level, etc).
    * Amount of food consumed before drinking.
    * How quickly the alcohol was consumed.
    * Use of drugs or prescription medicines.
    * Family history of alcohol problems.

What does it mean to get drunk?
“Getting drunk” or intoxicated is the result of consuming excessive amounts of alcohol. Binge drinking typically results in acute intoxication.

Alcohol intoxication can be harmful for a variety of reasons, including—

    * Impaired brain function resulting in poor judgment, reduced reaction time, loss of balance and motor skills, or slurred speech.
    * Dilation of blood vessels causing a feeling of warmth but resulting in rapid loss of body heat.
    * Increased risk of certain cancers, stroke, and liver diseases (e.g., cirrhosis), particularly when excessive amounts of alcohol are consumed over extended periods of time.
    * Damage to a developing fetus if consumed by pregnant women.5
    * Increased risk of motor-vehicle traffic crashes, violence, and other injuries.

Coma and death can occur if alcohol is consumed rapidly and in large amounts.

What health problems are associated with excessive alcohol use?
Excessive drinking both in the form of heavy drinking or binge drinking, is associated with numerous health problems, including—

    * Chronic diseases such as liver cirrhosis (damage to liver cells); pancreatitis (inflammation of the pancreas); various cancers, including liver, mouth, throat, larynx (the voice box), and esophagus; high blood pressure; and psychological disorders.
    * Unintentional injuries, such as motor-vehicle traffic crashes, falls, drowning, burns and firearm injuries.
    * Violence, such as child maltreatment, homicide, and suicide.
    * Harm to a developing fetus if a woman drinks while pregnant, such as fetal alcohol spectrum disorders.
    * Sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS).
    * Alcohol abuse or dependence.


Offline witega

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Re: Communing in Russian Church
« Reply #30 on: January 26, 2012, 06:08:47 PM »
(Personally I'd say that both the American Temperance strain that fears all alcohol and the Russian situation you're describing are both unhealthy extremes, but they are different extremes)

Decrying the American Temperance strain is not helpful.

"He causeth the grass to grow for the cattle, and herb for the service of man: that he may bring forth food out of the earth; and wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make his face to shine, and bread which strengtheneth man's heart." (Psalms 104: 14-15)

"the governor of the feast called the bridegroom, And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now." (John 2: 9-10) - (or in other words, Christ not only made the 'good stuff' but He made it to be served after the guests were "well drunk" enough that they couldn't necessarily notice the difference)



So, yes, I maintain that the Temperance strain of American culture which considers all alcohol-consumption to be a problem is an unhealthy extreme at odds with Scripture and Tradition. I'd also point out that the Psalmist apparently thinks it's as much a 'God-given right' as getting bread to eat is.

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Offline Νεκτάριος

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Re: Communing in Russian Church
« Reply #31 on: January 26, 2012, 06:18:12 PM »
a country where psychiatrists say three drinks in a day is "binge drinking".

 Why is having more than three drinks a day normal?   

Not the same thing. FormerReformer is talking about the fact that there are those in the US who consider it 'binge drinking' if you don't drink anything all week then go out with friends on the weekend and have 4 beers. That's rather different than someone having a minimum of 4 beers every single day.

(Personally I'd say that both the American Temperance strain that fears all alcohol and the Russian situation you're describing are both unhealthy extremes, but they are different extremes)

But that is the definition of a binge - drinking or consuming more than usual.  If your usual consumption is one or zero drinks a day, a 400% increase is a binge.  If you do this once in a blue moon, I don't think it's a big deal.  If you do this every weekend, it is worth asking whether you can unwind and enjoy social situations without alcohol.  In Russian запой is the closest word to binge; it often means days of drinking. :o

I agree that a moderate drinking culture is great - a glass of wine with dinner, a little more on the weekends is fantastic.  Just don't think such exists anywhere in the CIS.  

Offline primuspilus

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Re: Communing in Russian Church
« Reply #32 on: January 27, 2012, 01:02:21 PM »
Well then I'll stay firmly entrenched in stage 1 of this problem.......I deny wine exists.....

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Offline Benjamin the Red

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Re: Communing in Russian Church
« Reply #33 on: January 27, 2012, 02:03:46 PM »
(Personally I'd say that both the American Temperance strain that fears all alcohol and the Russian situation you're describing are both unhealthy extremes, but they are different extremes)

Decrying the American Temperance strain is not helpful.

"He causeth the grass to grow for the cattle, and herb for the service of man: that he may bring forth food out of the earth; and wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make his face to shine, and bread which strengtheneth man's heart." (Psalms 104: 14-15)

"the governor of the feast called the bridegroom, And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now." (John 2: 9-10) - (or in other words, Christ not only made the 'good stuff' but He made it to be served after the guests were "well drunk" enough that they couldn't necessarily notice the difference)



So, yes, I maintain that the Temperance strain of American culture which considers all alcohol-consumption to be a problem is an unhealthy extreme at odds with Scripture and Tradition. I'd also point out that the Psalmist apparently thinks it's as much a 'God-given right' as getting bread to eat is.



My favorite is:

"Give strong drink to the one who is perishing, and wine to those in bitter distress; let them drink and forget their poverty and remember their misery no more." -Proverbs ch. 31, vv. 6-7

;D
« Last Edit: January 27, 2012, 02:04:39 PM by Benjamin the Red »
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Offline HandmaidenofGod

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Re: Communing in Russian Church
« Reply #34 on: January 27, 2012, 02:09:41 PM »
I think zapivka should be abolished, since both Ukraine and Russia have a major problem of alcoholism.

Yes, I'm sure it's the sipful of zapivka that they receive after Holy Communion that is fueling this problem.  ::)

The amount given is less than a shot; it's just a small sip to help digest the gifts. That's it. There is probably more alcohol in the cherry cordials given at Christmas than in zapivka.
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Offline HandmaidenofGod

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Re: Communing in Russian Church
« Reply #35 on: January 27, 2012, 02:12:00 PM »
The "tap on the head" thing I have only seen done in Ukrainian parishes.

I've actually never seen that done in Ukraine. 

I should specify, Ukrainian Orthodox parishes in the US. I've never been to Ukraine.

As many of the UOC clergy in the US are former Byzantine Catholics, I wonder if this is a custom that was carried over from that tradition. Just wondering out loud. Don't mind me. :)
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Offline HandmaidenofGod

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Re: Communing in Russian Church
« Reply #36 on: January 27, 2012, 02:15:15 PM »
So, yes, I maintain that the Temperance strain of American culture which considers all alcohol-consumption to be a problem is an unhealthy extreme at odds with Scripture and Tradition. I'd also point out that the Psalmist apparently thinks it's as much a 'God-given right' as getting bread to eat is.

Considering how dangerous the water was at that time, wine was often as critical in one's diet as bread was. So I can understand the Psalmist's reasoning.

My personal motto is everything in moderation. A little wine is fine, but to get inebriated every night is unhealthy for body and soul.
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Offline Benjamin the Red

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Re: Communing in Russian Church
« Reply #37 on: January 27, 2012, 02:24:10 PM »
The "tap on the head" thing I have only seen done in Ukrainian parishes.

I've actually never seen that done in Ukraine. 

I should specify, Ukrainian Orthodox parishes in the US. I've never been to Ukraine.

As many of the UOC clergy in the US are former Byzantine Catholics, I wonder if this is a custom that was carried over from that tradition. Just wondering out loud. Don't mind me. :)

I've seen this done in every Antiochian parish I've visited. None of them have had a history of Byzantine Catholicism.
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Offline Νεκτάριος

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Re: Communing in Russian Church
« Reply #38 on: January 27, 2012, 05:04:24 PM »
The "tap on the head" thing I have only seen done in Ukrainian parishes.

I've actually never seen that done in Ukraine. 

I should specify, Ukrainian Orthodox parishes in the US. I've never been to Ukraine.

As many of the UOC clergy in the US are former Byzantine Catholics, I wonder if this is a custom that was carried over from that tradition. Just wondering out loud. Don't mind me. :)

I'm really only familiar with Eastern Ukraine which in terms of ecclesiastical practice is entirely Russified.  Authentic local practices seem to have faired better among Greek Catholics and the diaspora. 

Offline Gorazd

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Re: Communing in Russian Church
« Reply #39 on: January 28, 2012, 11:36:19 AM »
Yes, I'm sure it's the sipful of zapivka that they receive after Holy Communion that is fueling this problem.  ::)

The amount given is less than a shot; it's just a small sip to help digest the gifts. That's it. There is probably more alcohol in the cherry cordials given at Christmas than in zapivka.

Any amount of alcohol is dangerous for formal alcoholics who have quit drinking. I can accept the argument that this does not concern the Eucharist, since it is not wine anymore, but the Blood of Christ. But zapivka IS wine.

Offline LBK

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Re: Communing in Russian Church
« Reply #40 on: January 28, 2012, 05:10:29 PM »
Quote
But zapivka IS wine.

Not quite: Zapivka is a little wine heavily diluted with warm water.
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Offline mike

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Re: Communing in Russian Church
« Reply #41 on: January 28, 2012, 05:22:11 PM »
Depends on parish. Some use 50:50, some - just to colour the water, some use juice and some - only water.
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Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: Communing in Russian Church
« Reply #42 on: January 28, 2012, 06:43:20 PM »
Yes, I'm sure it's the sipful of zapivka that they receive after Holy Communion that is fueling this problem.  ::)

The amount given is less than a shot; it's just a small sip to help digest the gifts. That's it. There is probably more alcohol in the cherry cordials given at Christmas than in zapivka.

Any amount of alcohol is dangerous for formal alcoholics who have quit drinking. I can accept the argument that this does not concern the Eucharist, since it is not wine anymore, but the Blood of Christ. But zapivka IS wine.

Deacons who have to consume the contents of largish chalices say that they experience the effects of alcohol.  Are there any precautions taken for deacons who are dry/recovering alcoholics?  Would the priest step in and consume the chalice?

I know that precautions are taken in the case of the Consecrated Bread in the case of Celiac Sprue sufferers.

Offline Gorazd

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Re: Communing in Russian Church
« Reply #43 on: January 29, 2012, 01:33:22 PM »
Depends on parish. Some use 50:50, some - just to colour the water, some use juice and some - only water.
Juice or only water seem to be a good idea.

Offline FormerReformer

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Re: Communing in Russian Church
« Reply #44 on: January 29, 2012, 03:08:43 PM »
Yes, I'm sure it's the sipful of zapivka that they receive after Holy Communion that is fueling this problem.  ::)

The amount given is less than a shot; it's just a small sip to help digest the gifts. That's it. There is probably more alcohol in the cherry cordials given at Christmas than in zapivka.

Any amount of alcohol is dangerous for formal alcoholics who have quit drinking. I can accept the argument that this does not concern the Eucharist, since it is not wine anymore, but the Blood of Christ. But zapivka IS wine.

Just out of curiosity- is a "formal alcoholic" someone who only drinks while wearing a tuxedo?
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