Author Topic: ROCOR can lose its main building in New York  (Read 2191 times)

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Offline mike

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ROCOR can lose its main building in New York
« on: January 19, 2012, 04:06:47 PM »
New York, January 19, Interfax - The Russian Orthodox Church Abroad strive to preserve ownership of its headquarters on Park Avenue in New York City.

ROCOR is facing a financial crisis that can result in losing the building...

Offline ilyazhito

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Re: ROCOR can lose its main building in New York
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2012, 02:37:47 PM »
Whoa! This is terrible. How could we help ROCOR?

Offline IreneOlinyk

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Re: ROCOR can lose its main building in New York
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2012, 06:15:32 PM »
Whoa! This is terrible. How could we help ROCOR?


Why is it so terrible to sell an administrative building?  The church can use the money from selling prime city land and have another administrative on cheaper land: even on land the church already owns such as Holy Trinity Monastery property in Jordonville, NY.
Same with the OCA selling their headquarters and moving to a cheaper spot.

Offline ialmisry

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Re: ROCOR can lose its main building in New York
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2012, 07:03:47 PM »
Whoa! This is terrible. How could we help ROCOR?


Why is it so terrible to sell an administrative building?  The church can use the money from selling prime city land and have another administrative on cheaper land: even on land the church already owns such as Holy Trinity Monastery property in Jordonville, NY.
Same with the OCA selling their headquarters and moving to a cheaper spot.
Can they sell? It's not a sellers market.  I know someone who has moved out of state but has to commute because he can't sell the house.  If it is not a historic matter (I doubt it, ROCOR didn't come here really until after WWII), there should  be no problem.  IF they can sell it.
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Offline primuspilus

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Re: ROCOR can lose its main building in New York
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2012, 11:19:00 AM »
Why do all these churches want to have a headquarters in such ridiculously expensive areas? I'd move em all to Alabama or something. Cheap land and low taxes.

PP
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: ROCOR can lose its main building in New York
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2012, 11:27:46 AM »
Why do all these churches want to have a headquarters in such ridiculously expensive areas? I'd move em all to Alabama or something. Cheap land and low taxes.

PP
you are in the middle of nowhere in AL (no offense).  Good for a monastery. Not so good for an institution which has to deal with the world head on.  Which is why the primate's see ends up in the metropolis, or rather, grows up there (North America being an anomoly,due to historical circumstanced).
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: ROCOR can lose its main building in New York
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2012, 11:32:33 AM »
Whoa! This is terrible. How could we help ROCOR?


By accepting them into the OCA.
Ignorance is not a lack, but a passion.

Offline ialmisry

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Re: ROCOR can lose its main building in New York
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2012, 11:38:30 AM »
Whoa! This is terrible. How could we help ROCOR?


By accepting them into the OCA.
LOL.  Though I'm not sure on financial matters.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
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Offline Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)

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Re: ROCOR can lose its main building in New York
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2012, 11:45:08 AM »
On January 19, 2012 the Holt Synod of ROCOR issued this appeal:

"In order for the Synod of Bishops to continue to own the complex, three things are needed:

      1) significant financing for urgently-needed capital renovation;

      2) continued financial support to cover maintenance costs, and

      3) a significant increase in annual revenue to fill a severe administrative budget gap.
...

The Synod has been running $450-$500k annual deficits in recent years."

http://www.synod.com/synod/eng2012/20110116_enappeal.html

I heard informally and from a source that I do not fully trust that a benefactor has been found to save to obviate the need to sell the Park Avenue properties. However, the structural problem remains.



Offline Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)

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Re: ROCOR can lose its main building in New York
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2012, 11:47:53 AM »
Why do all these churches want to have a headquarters in such ridiculously expensive areas? I'd move em all to Alabama or something. Cheap land and low taxes.

PP
you are in the middle of nowhere in AL (no offense).  Good for a monastery. Not so good for an institution which has to deal with the world head on.  Which is why the primate's see ends up in the metropolis, or rather, grows up there (North America being an anomoly,due to historical circumstanced).

I think that a national headquarters would benefit greatly by being located close to an airline hub. In the South, Atlanta comes to mind.

ADDED:

There are a number of hubs that are more or less centrally located and where the cost of living is not as expensive as the metropolitan areas of New York City, Boston, Philadelphia, Washington, D.C., Los Angeles, San Francisco, Miami, and Chicago--all of which would not be good locations. Other hubs that may be disqualified because of their outlier locations, would be Honolulu and Anchorage (BTW, the most centrally located hub is at Kansas City.) It would also help for the hub to also act as an international airport and to be an efficient one.

I used http://www.flightstats.com/go/AirportTracker/airportTracker.do to get a better handle on the suitability of such a hub and came up with:

1. Atlanta
2. DFW-Dallas/Forth Worth

That's it.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2012, 12:14:48 PM by Second Chance »

Offline Monk Vasyl

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Re: ROCOR can lose its main building in New York
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2012, 12:38:24 PM »
Maybe they could rent space from Holy Trinity Monastery in Jordanville?
The unworthy hierodeacon, Vasyl

Offline primuspilus

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Re: ROCOR can lose its main building in New York
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2012, 12:48:28 PM »
Why do all these churches want to have a headquarters in such ridiculously expensive areas? I'd move em all to Alabama or something. Cheap land and low taxes.

PP
you are in the middle of nowhere in AL (no offense).  Good for a monastery. Not so good for an institution which has to deal with the world head on.  Which is why the primate's see ends up in the metropolis, or rather, grows up there (North America being an anomoly,due to historical circumstanced).
Sorry Isa, you and I have to disagree on this. if this were 1938 I'd agree. This is the 21st century. Distance is no longer a concern. Between virtual meetings, internet access, hyper-saturation of air travel to anywhere, this does not matter anymore.

As far as meeting the world head-on I fail to see that. Whether the OCA, for example, is in New York or Sparta, Tennessee nothing would change. Statements would be issued, interviews would be done, etc.

PP
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Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: ROCOR can lose its main building in New York
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2012, 01:04:34 PM »
EDITED because the joke was dumb... sigh...
« Last Edit: March 28, 2012, 01:06:29 PM by Asteriktos »
We all have an El Guapo to face. Be brave, and fight like lions!

Form a 'brute squad' then!

Offline primuspilus

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Re: ROCOR can lose its main building in New York
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2012, 01:07:33 PM »
Why do all these churches want to have a headquarters in such ridiculously expensive areas? I'd move em all to Alabama or something. Cheap land and low taxes.

PP
you are in the middle of nowhere in AL (no offense).  Good for a monastery. Not so good for an institution which has to deal with the world head on.  Which is why the primate's see ends up in the metropolis, or rather, grows up there (North America being an anomoly,due to historical circumstanced).
Sorry Isa, you and I have to disagree on this. if this were 1938 I'd agree. This is the 21st century. Distance is no longer a concern. Between virtual meetings, internet access, hyper-saturation of air travel to anywhere, this does not matter anymore.

As far as meeting the world head-on I fail to see that. Whether the OCA, for example, is in New York or Sparta, Tennessee nothing would change. Statements would be issued, interviews would be done, etc.

PP

You haven't heard about the millions of souls that have been saved because ROCOR has a fancy administrative building in NYC? What do you think will happen if they move to New Jersey? Become the OCA2, that's what. Is that what you want?
Ah, I didn't know about that....I guess I gave myself away that I have not yet finished Catechesis.
PP
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Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker

Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: ROCOR can lose its main building in New York
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2012, 01:08:36 PM »
Ninja edit...
We all have an El Guapo to face. Be brave, and fight like lions!

Form a 'brute squad' then!

Offline primuspilus

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Re: ROCOR can lose its main building in New York
« Reply #15 on: March 28, 2012, 01:12:25 PM »
Ninja edit...
I liked the joke..... :-\

PP
"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"
Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker

Offline ialmisry

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Re: ROCOR can lose its main building in New York
« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2012, 01:15:25 PM »
Why do all these churches want to have a headquarters in such ridiculously expensive areas? I'd move em all to Alabama or something. Cheap land and low taxes.

PP
you are in the middle of nowhere in AL (no offense).  Good for a monastery. Not so good for an institution which has to deal with the world head on.  Which is why the primate's see ends up in the metropolis, or rather, grows up there (North America being an anomoly,due to historical circumstanced).
Sorry Isa, you and I have to disagree on this. if this were 1938 I'd agree. This is the 21st century. Distance is no longer a concern. Between virtual meetings, internet access, hyper-saturation of air travel to anywhere, this does not matter anymore.

As far as meeting the world head-on I fail to see that. Whether the OCA, for example, is in New York or Sparta, Tennessee nothing would change. Statements would be issued, interviews would be done, etc.

PP
I'm sorry, but I worked in D.C.  It matters a great deal.  Technology hasn't changed human nature.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline primuspilus

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Re: ROCOR can lose its main building in New York
« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2012, 01:17:09 PM »
Why do all these churches want to have a headquarters in such ridiculously expensive areas? I'd move em all to Alabama or something. Cheap land and low taxes.

PP
you are in the middle of nowhere in AL (no offense).  Good for a monastery. Not so good for an institution which has to deal with the world head on.  Which is why the primate's see ends up in the metropolis, or rather, grows up there (North America being an anomoly,due to historical circumstanced).
Sorry Isa, you and I have to disagree on this. if this were 1938 I'd agree. This is the 21st century. Distance is no longer a concern. Between virtual meetings, internet access, hyper-saturation of air travel to anywhere, this does not matter anymore.

As far as meeting the world head-on I fail to see that. Whether the OCA, for example, is in New York or Sparta, Tennessee nothing would change. Statements would be issued, interviews would be done, etc.

PP
I'm sorry, but I worked in D.C.  It matters a great deal.  Technology hasn't changed human nature.
Although I can agree with your last statement we'll have to agree to disagree about the rest.

PP
"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"
Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker

Offline IXOYE

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Re: ROCOR can lose its main building in New York
« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2012, 01:31:22 PM »
Maybe they could rent space from Holy Trinity Monastery in Jordanville?

A very sound idea, Father.

Offline mike

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Re: ROCOR can lose its main building in New York
« Reply #19 on: March 28, 2012, 04:06:08 PM »
Sorry Isa, you and I have to disagree on this. if this were 1938 I'd agree. This is the 21st century. Distance is no longer a concern. Between virtual meetings, internet access, hyper-saturation of air travel to anywhere, this does not matter anymore.

For Bishops that are 60+?
« Last Edit: March 28, 2012, 04:06:31 PM by Michał Kalina »

Offline primuspilus

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Re: ROCOR can lose its main building in New York
« Reply #20 on: March 28, 2012, 04:12:19 PM »
Sorry Isa, you and I have to disagree on this. if this were 1938 I'd agree. This is the 21st century. Distance is no longer a concern. Between virtual meetings, internet access, hyper-saturation of air travel to anywhere, this does not matter anymore.

For Bishops that are 60+?
Hire a nerd...we're cheap :)

PP
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Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker

Offline ilyazhito

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Re: ROCOR can lose its main building in New York
« Reply #21 on: March 29, 2012, 02:30:14 PM »
Whoa! This is terrible. How could we help ROCOR?


By accepting them into the OCA.
+1! I believe that the OCA has something good to offer to ROCOR ( young converts, missionary connections), and ROCOR can offer the OCA solid liturgical traditions and experienced clergy. There already have been several OCA-ROCOR transfers (and vice versa) , for instance protodeacon Stephen Howanetz. Why not join the churches, so that ROCOR can be independent from, but in communion with Moscow?

Offline ThePilgrim

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Re: ROCOR can lose its main building in New York
« Reply #22 on: March 29, 2012, 04:13:54 PM »
Whoa! This is terrible. How could we help ROCOR?


By accepting them into the OCA.
+1! I believe that the OCA has something good to offer to ROCOR ( young converts, missionary connections), and ROCOR can offer the OCA solid liturgical traditions and experienced clergy. There already have been several OCA-ROCOR transfers (and vice versa) , for instance protodeacon Stephen Howanetz. Why not join the churches, so that ROCOR can be independent from, but in communion with Moscow?

ROCOR has young converts and missionary experience, though, doesn't it?  Does ROCOR have any desire to be independent from Moscow?

In Christ,
Fr. John

Offline Lichnidos

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Re: ROCOR can lose its main building in New York
« Reply #23 on: March 30, 2012, 12:13:30 PM »
Since we're on the topic. I'd like to see a ROCOR/MP+OCA+Antioch union.

But I'm odd ....
"Men do not differ much about what things they will call evils; they differ enormously about what evils they will call excusable." - G.K. Chesterton

Offline ThePilgrim

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Re: ROCOR can lose its main building in New York
« Reply #24 on: March 30, 2012, 01:28:36 PM »
Since we're on the topic. I'd like to see a ROCOR/MP+OCA+Antioch union.

But I'm odd ....

And have a giant Church that covered much of the former Soviet Union, much of the Middle East, and North America? A new first among equals to be sure. ;-)

Offline primuspilus

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Re: ROCOR can lose its main building in New York
« Reply #25 on: March 30, 2012, 02:49:52 PM »
Since we're on the topic. I'd like to see a ROCOR/MP+OCA+Antioch union.

But I'm odd ....

And have a giant Church that covered much of the former Soviet Union, much of the Middle East, and North America? A new first among equals to be sure. ;-)
I just want 1 american orthodox church. Is that too much to ask?

PP

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« Last Edit: March 30, 2012, 02:50:20 PM by primuspilus »
"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"
Gregory the Great

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Offline Lichnidos

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Re: ROCOR can lose its main building in New York
« Reply #26 on: March 31, 2012, 11:26:27 AM »
Since we're on the topic. I'd like to see a ROCOR/MP+OCA+Antioch union.

But I'm odd ....

And have a giant Church that covered much of the former Soviet Union, much of the Middle East, and North America? A new first among equals to be sure. ;-)
I just want 1 american orthodox church. Is that too much to ask?

PP

NOTE; Please, no "we are one Church". You know what I mean.

For the time being it seems it is ...
"Men do not differ much about what things they will call evils; they differ enormously about what evils they will call excusable." - G.K. Chesterton

Offline ilyazhito

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Re: ROCOR can lose its main building in New York
« Reply #27 on: April 10, 2012, 08:28:30 AM »
Whoa! This is terrible. How could we help ROCOR?


By accepting them into the OCA.
+1! I believe that the OCA has something good to offer to ROCOR ( young converts, missionary connections), and ROCOR can offer the OCA solid liturgical traditions and experienced clergy. There already have been several OCA-ROCOR transfers (and vice versa) , for instance protodeacon Stephen Howanetz. Why not join the churches, so that ROCOR can be independent from, but in communion with Moscow?

ROCOR has young converts and missionary experience, though, doesn't it?  Does ROCOR have any desire to be independent from Moscow?

In Christ,
Fr. John
This is true, but this situation is not tyopical for ROCOR.

Offline IreneOlinyk

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Re: ROCOR can lose its main building in New York
« Reply #28 on: June 10, 2012, 06:31:21 PM »
Almost 6 months later & I wonder what happened?  Did the ROCOR sell the building?  Are the headquarters being moved to Jordanville?

Offline Zenovia

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Re: ROCOR can lose its main building in New York
« Reply #29 on: June 11, 2012, 01:21:11 AM »
I can't understand this, if ROCOR is in communion with Moscow, then certainly Russia can help them out.  Church buildings do not pay taxes, but it probably does need some major repairs.  I believe I've been into it, and if I recall correctly it is quite impressive.  I don't know for sure, but it was probably purchased by the Tsar before the revolution.  ???

Offline Ortho_cat

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Re: ROCOR can lose its main building in New York
« Reply #30 on: June 11, 2012, 01:44:50 AM »
Whoa! This is terrible. How could we help ROCOR?


Why is it so terrible to sell an administrative building?  The church can use the money from selling prime city land and have another administrative on cheaper land: even on land the church already owns such as Holy Trinity Monastery property in Jordonville, NY.
Same with the OCA selling their headquarters and moving to a cheaper spot.

no kidding. I agree wholeheartedly.

Offline Orest

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Re: ROCOR can lose its main building in New York
« Reply #31 on: June 11, 2012, 02:18:31 PM »
I can't understand this, if ROCOR is in communion with Moscow, then certainly Russia can help them out.  Church buildings do not pay taxes, but it probably does need some major repairs.  I believe I've been into it, and if I recall correctly it is quite impressive.  I don't know for sure, but it was probably purchased by the Tsar before the revolution.  ???
Zenovia this is the ROCOR so I really doubt there is a connection with the last tsar buying a building used by a church that was only founded AFTER the revolution.
 But the I think the solution is to move everything to Jordanville.

By the way the original press story was from Interfax in Russia.  Can someone please find an American source?
« Last Edit: June 11, 2012, 02:20:11 PM by Orest »

Offline kijabeboy03

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Re: ROCOR can lose its main building in New York
« Reply #32 on: June 11, 2012, 10:31:40 PM »
It's terrible because the building also houses Our Lady of the Sign Cathedral, the seat of the First Hierarch of the ROCOR and of the Diocese of New York and Eastern America.

Whoa! This is terrible. How could we help ROCOR?


Why is it so terrible to sell an administrative building?  The church can use the money from selling prime city land and have another administrative on cheaper land: even on land the church already owns such as Holy Trinity Monastery property in Jordonville, NY.
Same with the OCA selling their headquarters and moving to a cheaper spot.
"This is the Apostolic Faith, the Orthodox Faith, and the Faith of the Fathers. Having this wonderful treasure, let us preserve it, let us keep it, and let us also use it in such a way that this treasure becomes the victory of Christ in us and in His Church." ~ St. Severus of Antioch ~

Offline kijabeboy03

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Re: ROCOR can lose its main building in New York
« Reply #33 on: June 11, 2012, 10:31:59 PM »
http://www.synod.com/synod/eng2012/20110116_enappeal.html

I can't understand this, if ROCOR is in communion with Moscow, then certainly Russia can help them out.  Church buildings do not pay taxes, but it probably does need some major repairs.  I believe I've been into it, and if I recall correctly it is quite impressive.  I don't know for sure, but it was probably purchased by the Tsar before the revolution.  ???
Zenovia this is the ROCOR so I really doubt there is a connection with the last tsar buying a building used by a church that was only founded AFTER the revolution.
 But the I think the solution is to move everything to Jordanville.

By the way the original press story was from Interfax in Russia.  Can someone please find an American source?
"This is the Apostolic Faith, the Orthodox Faith, and the Faith of the Fathers. Having this wonderful treasure, let us preserve it, let us keep it, and let us also use it in such a way that this treasure becomes the victory of Christ in us and in His Church." ~ St. Severus of Antioch ~

Offline Zenovia

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Re: ROCOR can lose its main building in New York
« Reply #34 on: June 11, 2012, 11:51:41 PM »
I can't understand this, if ROCOR is in communion with Moscow, then certainly Russia can help them out.  Church buildings do not pay taxes, but it probably does need some major repairs.  I believe I've been into it, and if I recall correctly it is quite impressive.  I don't know for sure, but it was probably purchased by the Tsar before the revolution.  ???
Zenovia this is the ROCOR so I really doubt there is a connection with the last tsar buying a building used by a church that was only founded AFTER the revolution.
 But the I think the solution is to move everything to Jordanville.

By the way the original press story was from Interfax in Russia.  Can someone please find an American source?

I still don't understand it.  I know that there is a Russian Church in Manhattan that was built by the Tsar and I know it was attended by the Russian nobility living in NYC.  Did ROCOR take it over since it was the Russian Church outside of Russia?    Are you sure that the building wasn't also  bought by the Tsar?   To be honest,  I can't imagine ROCOR ever having enough money to purchase a building as impressive as that in Manhattan.   ???

Offline JamesRottnek

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Re: ROCOR can lose its main building in New York
« Reply #35 on: June 11, 2012, 11:59:59 PM »
I can't understand this, if ROCOR is in communion with Moscow, then certainly Russia can help them out.  Church buildings do not pay taxes, but it probably does need some major repairs.  I believe I've been into it, and if I recall correctly it is quite impressive.  I don't know for sure, but it was probably purchased by the Tsar before the revolution.  ???
Zenovia this is the ROCOR so I really doubt there is a connection with the last tsar buying a building used by a church that was only founded AFTER the revolution.
 But the I think the solution is to move everything to Jordanville.

By the way the original press story was from Interfax in Russia.  Can someone please find an American source?

I still don't understand it.  I know that there is a Russian Church in Manhattan that was built by the Tsar and I know it was attended by the Russian nobility living in NYC.  Did ROCOR take it over since it was the Russian Church outside of Russia?    Are you sure that the building wasn't also  bought by the Tsar?   To be honest,  I can't imagine ROCOR ever having enough money to purchase a building as impressive as that in Manhattan.   ???

It's probably still under the MP, or no longer a Church.  After the Soviets took over Russia (please excuse any errors), ROCOR formed and around 1930, separated itself from the MP.  Separately, at the Fourth All-American Sobor, in 1924 or 1925, what eventually became the OCA, declared itself temporarily self-governing.  Only near the end of WWII did ROCOR establish itself in America, when Yugoslavia forced it out.  There were, however, still parishes in America under the MP, and when the OCA was granted the tomos of autocephaly by the Moscow, the MP parishes were given a choice of whether or not to go under the OCA, and consequently the MP still has some parishes in the United States.

I believe that's mostly accurate, and if someone with a better understanding of the history notices any notable omissions, or comes across any error, please correct it.
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Offline Zenovia

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Re: ROCOR can lose its main building in New York
« Reply #36 on: June 12, 2012, 02:03:26 AM »
I can't understand this, if ROCOR is in communion with Moscow, then certainly Russia can help them out.  Church buildings do not pay taxes, but it probably does need some major repairs.  I believe I've been into it, and if I recall correctly it is quite impressive.  I don't know for sure, but it was probably purchased by the Tsar before the revolution.  ???
Zenovia this is the ROCOR so I really doubt there is a connection with the last tsar buying a building used by a church that was only founded AFTER the revolution.
 But the I think the solution is to move everything to Jordanville.

By the way the original press story was from Interfax in Russia.  Can someone please find an American source?

I still don't understand it.  I know that there is a Russian Church in Manhattan that was built by the Tsar and I know it was attended by the Russian nobility living in NYC.  Did ROCOR take it over since it was the Russian Church outside of Russia?    Are you sure that the building wasn't also  bought by the Tsar?   To be honest,  I can't imagine ROCOR ever having enough money to purchase a building as impressive as that in Manhattan.   ???

It's probably still under the MP, or no longer a Church.  After the Soviets took over Russia (please excuse any errors), ROCOR formed and around 1930, separated itself from the MP.  Separately, at the Fourth All-American Sobor, in 1924 or 1925, what eventually became the OCA, declared itself temporarily self-governing.  Only near the end of WWII did ROCOR establish itself in America, when Yugoslavia forced it out.  There were, however, still parishes in America under the MP, and when the OCA was granted the tomos of autocephaly by the Moscow, the MP parishes were given a choice of whether or not to go under the OCA, and consequently the MP still has some parishes in the United States.

I believe that's mostly accurate, and if someone with a better understanding of the history notices any notable omissions, or comes across any error, please correct it.

The Russian Church of Tsarist Russia in New York City is called Saint Nicholas Orthodox Cathedral and is still under the Moscow Patriarch.  The one I attended on the East side was probably the church in the building owned by ROCOR.  I haven't been able to find out if it was purchased by ROCOR, (which is possible since they weren't that expensive in the 1950's),  or whether it belonged originally to the Moscow Patriarch.   

As for the OCA, I recall Arch. Iakovos was quite upset when it was given autocephaly, so it had to have been in the 1960's or 1970's.   ???


Offline JamesRottnek

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Re: ROCOR can lose its main building in New York
« Reply #37 on: June 12, 2012, 02:16:11 AM »
I can't understand this, if ROCOR is in communion with Moscow, then certainly Russia can help them out.  Church buildings do not pay taxes, but it probably does need some major repairs.  I believe I've been into it, and if I recall correctly it is quite impressive.  I don't know for sure, but it was probably purchased by the Tsar before the revolution.  ???
Zenovia this is the ROCOR so I really doubt there is a connection with the last tsar buying a building used by a church that was only founded AFTER the revolution.
 But the I think the solution is to move everything to Jordanville.

By the way the original press story was from Interfax in Russia.  Can someone please find an American source?

I still don't understand it.  I know that there is a Russian Church in Manhattan that was built by the Tsar and I know it was attended by the Russian nobility living in NYC.  Did ROCOR take it over since it was the Russian Church outside of Russia?    Are you sure that the building wasn't also  bought by the Tsar?   To be honest,  I can't imagine ROCOR ever having enough money to purchase a building as impressive as that in Manhattan.   ???

It's probably still under the MP, or no longer a Church.  After the Soviets took over Russia (please excuse any errors), ROCOR formed and around 1930, separated itself from the MP.  Separately, at the Fourth All-American Sobor, in 1924 or 1925, what eventually became the OCA, declared itself temporarily self-governing.  Only near the end of WWII did ROCOR establish itself in America, when Yugoslavia forced it out.  There were, however, still parishes in America under the MP, and when the OCA was granted the tomos of autocephaly by the Moscow, the MP parishes were given a choice of whether or not to go under the OCA, and consequently the MP still has some parishes in the United States.

I believe that's mostly accurate, and if someone with a better understanding of the history notices any notable omissions, or comes across any error, please correct it.

The Russian Church of Tsarist Russia in New York City is called Saint Nicholas Orthodox Cathedral and is still under the Moscow Patriarch.  The one I attended on the East side was probably the church in the building owned by ROCOR.  I haven't been able to find out if it was purchased by ROCOR, (which is possible since they weren't that expensive in the 1950's),  or whether it belonged originally to the Moscow Patriarch.   

As for the OCA, I recall Arch. Iakovos was quite upset when it was given autocephaly, so it had to have been in the 1960's or 1970's.   ???



The Tomos was issued in the 1970
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Offline Orual

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Re: ROCOR can lose its main building in New York
« Reply #38 on: June 12, 2012, 02:22:35 AM »
Moscow's cathedral in New York, St. Nicholas, remains an Orthodox Church.  The Metropolia lost it in a legal battle shortly after the Russian Revolution and has stayed under the control of the Moscow Patriarchate.  It is on E. 97th Street near 5th Avenue.

The OCA eventually established its New York cathedral on the Lower East Side (E. 2nd Street), in a former Protestant church.  

ROCOR later received a donated mansion on Park Avenue (E. 93rd & Park) and made that building a cathedral and headquarters for ROCOR.  (The cathedral part of the building is located in what was the mansion's ballroom!)  It is ROCOR's building on E. 93rd and Park that has been in danger of having to be sold due to the cost of its upkeep.  I believe they recently raised enough money to forestall this possibility for a time.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2012, 02:23:46 AM by Orual »
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Offline Orest

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Re: ROCOR can lose its main building in New York
« Reply #39 on: June 12, 2012, 10:41:22 AM »
Thanks for the original source from the ROCOR.  I think this sentence is vital:
"The need for a thriving, efficient administrative center, wherever it is located, has grown since ROCOR now participates in the life of the entire Orthodox Christian World."

To me it looks like the need to hang on to the property is not their most vital concern in the discussions.


Offline podkarpatska

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Re: ROCOR can lose its main building in New York
« Reply #40 on: June 12, 2012, 10:52:45 AM »
Moscow's cathedral in New York, St. Nicholas, remains an Orthodox Church.  The Metropolia lost it in a legal battle shortly after the Russian Revolution and has stayed under the control of the Moscow Patriarchate.  It is on E. 97th Street near 5th Avenue.

The OCA eventually established its New York cathedral on the Lower East Side (E. 2nd Street), in a former Protestant church.  

ROCOR later received a donated mansion on Park Avenue (E. 93rd & Park) and made that building a cathedral and headquarters for ROCOR.  (The cathedral part of the building is located in what was the mansion's ballroom!)  It is ROCOR's building on E. 93rd and Park that has been in danger of having to be sold due to the cost of its upkeep.  I believe they recently raised enough money to forestall this possibility for a time.

There is also St. Nicholas Orthodox Church on the lower East Side on E. 10th Street which has been around as either an Orthodox or independent Orthodox parish since the 1920's. Since the early 1970's it was been part of ACROD.

Offline Marc1152

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Re: ROCOR can lose its main building in New York
« Reply #41 on: June 12, 2012, 11:10:03 AM »
Since we're on the topic. I'd like to see a ROCOR/MP+OCA+Antioch union.

But I'm odd ....

And have a giant Church that covered much of the former Soviet Union, much of the Middle East, and North America? A new first among equals to be sure. ;-)
I just want 1 american orthodox church. Is that too much to ask?

PP

NOTE; Please, no "we are one Church". You know what I mean.

I attend a Rocor mission Church not far from the U of MD. We have lots of grad students and we run a campus Student Group.. All services are in English. Not a bit of Slavonic. Priests are Converts. Sermons all in English. All the grad student types are Scientists working on or just getting their Phd's. We have only about 7  Russians or Ukrainians.. We have several African American members.

We offer the full and entire service schedule including for all weekday feasts. We hold Vigil each Saturday , about 3 hours long.

I am not sure how much more "American" we can get.  What were you hoping for exactly?

  
« Last Edit: June 12, 2012, 11:10:38 AM by Marc1152 »
Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm

Offline primuspilus

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Re: ROCOR can lose its main building in New York
« Reply #42 on: June 12, 2012, 04:35:08 PM »
Quote
I am not sure how much more "American" we can get.  What were you hoping for exactly?
I was speaking administratively. All the different *insert racial identification here* Orthodox Churches do nothing but confuse.

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