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Offline constantinethegreat

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unity
« on: January 17, 2012, 08:26:48 PM »
 . Sometimes I feel radical ! Though my concieus tells me not . How radical am I ? You tell me . I grew up in a roman catholic society in latin america . As I grew up. I met friends from other religions like SEVENTH Day adventist , MOrmons , JEhova witnesess ,pentecostal . I tuned in n studied everyone and found no perfect religion . I dream of a united christian faith , where we all respect each others right to think n have an opinion , but all united under JEsus CHrist and the holy creator. Something like a congress where all christian religions have a say. How radical am I ,"r how radicl is this idea ?
So much the lord loved the world so that , all who believe in him shall not perish , and receive eternal life .

Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: unity
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2012, 08:31:11 PM »
The Unitarian Universalists beat you to the idea, I'm afraid :)
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Offline Riddikulus

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Re: unity
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2012, 08:35:45 PM »
There's nothing new under the sun.  :laugh:
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Offline constantinethegreat

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Re: unity
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2012, 09:18:08 PM »
Am not saying is a new idea . Am asking is it considered a radical idea ? How do you feel about it ?
So much the lord loved the world so that , all who believe in him shall not perish , and receive eternal life .

Offline HabteSelassie

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Re: unity
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2012, 09:20:58 PM »
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

The Fathers settled this 1700 years ago.  Its the One, Holy, Universal, Apostolic Church.  Its the folks outside who are the radicals..

stay blessed,
habte selassie
"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10

Offline Scotty

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Re: unity
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2012, 11:45:23 PM »
About this radical:


Offline xariskai

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Re: unity
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2012, 11:49:47 PM »
Build-a-bear religion in the Temple of the Great Whatever


Offline quietmorning

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Re: unity
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2012, 09:08:48 AM »
The Unitarian Universalists beat you to the idea, I'm afraid :)

We have a Unitarian Universalist church down the street that I've visited with my neighbor a cross the street once or twice when he was speaking - I've found that the only faith NOT welcome there is Christian.  The have a banner of world religions that hangs across their 'altar'.  The only symbol missing is the cross.  Now mind you, this is only one church group. . .but I really don't have it in mind to visit any others - or go back to visit this one.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2012, 09:10:24 AM by quietmorning »
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Offline Iconodule

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Re: unity
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2012, 09:18:28 AM »
The Unitarian Universalists beat you to the idea, I'm afraid :)

We have a Unitarian Universalist church down the street that I've visited with my neighbor a cross the street once or twice when he was speaking - I've found that the only faith NOT welcome there is Christian.  The have a banner of world religions that hangs across their 'altar'.  The only symbol missing is the cross.  Now mind you, this is only one church group. . .but I really don't have it in mind to visit any others - or go back to visit this one.

Well, an orthodox Buddhist would probably not be treated well there either. Their only real faith principles are Enlightenment ideology.
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Offline quietmorning

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Re: unity
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2012, 09:18:41 AM »
Gebre Menfes Kidus posted this
in the picture of the day post.  (http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,34189.msg694715.html#msg694715).

I think the thing that's being missed is that the message Christ Jesus brought to us was so completely radical that the people crucified Him for it.  

When we white wash everything down to a comfort zone, we lose the message of what He died for.  It's not radical to have the idea that we all just accept everyone's differences - it's radical to make a stand for righteousness and truth.  When we stand for righteousness and truth, it's so radical that the world hates it and tends to martyr right and left.

Radical would be the willingness to go out and teach the truth. . .to teach righteousness. . .and stand firm in it.  
« Last Edit: January 18, 2012, 09:20:18 AM by quietmorning »
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Offline stashko

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Re: unity
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2012, 09:32:59 AM »
The Unitarian Universalists beat you to the idea, I'm afraid :)

We have a Unitarian Universalist church down the street that I've visited with my neighbor a cross the street once or twice when he was speaking - I've found that the only faith NOT welcome there is Christian.  The have a banner of world religions that hangs across their 'altar'.  The only symbol missing is the cross.  Now mind you, this is only one church group. . .but I really don't have it in mind to visit any others - or go back to visit this one.


There Use to be A unitarian Church where i used to Live as well...Never went inside ,Passed it quite offen though....

One Day While Going By the Church ,A pedestrian Walking the same Direction collaped in front of it .....I didn't know what to do .....

The whole Church rushed out Including i think  was a female Minister,While the Guy was laying on the side walk,he was praying ,the way Catholc's do,we were lisening to his prayers including the minister ,She Commented on his prayers ,and said if he Believes it, it must bring him some comfort...

The ambulance Finally  Arrived and took him to the Hospital .....

I started to talk to one of the parishoner ,and mention that there Church Has the Shape of a Cross, He looked and said really I don't See it.....

This is my Brief Experience with Unitarians...... :police:

« Last Edit: January 18, 2012, 09:38:33 AM by stashko »
ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.

Offline Peter J

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Re: unity
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2012, 10:20:36 AM »
I think the thing that's being missed is that the message Christ Jesus brought to us was so completely radical that the people crucified Him for it.  

That's a great point, quietmorning.
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Offline alanscott

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Re: unity
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2012, 12:21:29 PM »
I'm probably the last guy you should listen to on this subject but in my humble opinion to think, or perhaps better said imagine, such a thing sounds beautiful to me! To practically seek, or realistically consider it, might make you very radical indeed!  ;)

In a way I think you are touching upon a core principle of Christianity; 'To love your neighbor as yourself'
I am not saying we should embrace beliefs, dogmas, theologies or even traditions & cultures that we do not agree with of course. How can anyone turn away from the love for Truth and Understanding they believe they have found in such? To live in Christ however, should we not constantly remind ourselves to not judge or look down upon others for seeking God in their own way? Even if we suspect that way is false. Take my being on this site as an example; there are issues of Orthodoxy I either do not understand, or do not hold as truth in my faith, that most others on here would view as my being wrong. If I was not accepted here, felt constantly judged, or looked down upon I would either not be here (I consider it a privilege and am humbled to take part by the by) or I would be in conflict with others on a human/worldly level. Perhaps even rejecting Orthodoxy all together. How could I possibly then see or have any misunderstandings revealled to me in that situation? Conflict rarely if ever leads to correction - but cannot God's love, understanding, acceptance, etc. reveal all that is Truth? idk Just thinking out loud I guess.

What does weigh heavily on my heart and mind at times is not unity but division. I accept and understand the profound significance of difference amongst Christian sects. That should not be overlooked in my opinion. However those differences, seems to me anyway, pale in comparison to our shared love and belief in God. I sometimes worry that the evil one uses those differences against us to divide, and hide the Truth within the conflict of our human nature.

I suppose that might make me a little radical too?  :)

Lord have mercy on us all!


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Offline Knee V

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Re: unity
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2012, 12:57:01 PM »
Since you ask, I'll not sugar coat - what you propose is the religion of antichrist. The Church is already one and united. The apparent lack of unity in world-wide christendom is not due to an actual lack of unity in the church - it's due to a lot of people being outside the Church.

Offline Agabus

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Re: unity
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2012, 09:44:10 PM »
How radical am I ,"r how radicl is this idea ?
Perhaps within your own culture, my friend, but not in the USA.

Quote
Something like a congress where all christian religions have a say.
You mean this?
Blessed Nazarius practiced the ascetic life. His clothes were tattered. He wore his shoes without removing them for six years.

THE OPINIONS HERE MAY NOT REFLECT THE ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED ORTHODOX CHURCH

Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: unity
« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2012, 09:48:22 PM »
Am not saying is a new idea . Am asking is it considered a radical idea ? How do you feel about it ?

It's not radical, and I think it's a wonderful solution to a nonexistent problem. :)
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Offline xariskai

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Re: unity
« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2012, 10:05:11 PM »
What pray tell do you rad fellows advocate the services should look like?

Something like this perhaps?
http://youtu.be/kOyZoFm7UKU
(warning: Episcopalians invoking nature demons/ video courtesy Alveus Lacuna)
« Last Edit: January 20, 2012, 10:06:58 PM by xariskai »

Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: unity
« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2012, 10:09:04 PM »
Why was Alveus there shooting the video...? No, nevermind, I don't want to know!
We all have an El Guapo to face. Be brave, and fight like lions!

Offline xariskai

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Re: unity
« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2012, 10:11:23 PM »
Ha, no, he PMd it to me a while back.

Offline constantinethegreat

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Re: unity
« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2012, 12:58:57 AM »
I'm probably the last guy you should listen to on this subject but in my humble opinion to think, or perhaps better said imagine, such a thing sounds beautiful to me! To practically seek, or realistically consider it, might make you very radical indeed!  ;)

In a way I think you are touching upon a core principle of Christianity; 'To love your neighbor as yourself'
I am not saying we should embrace beliefs, dogmas, theologies or even traditions & cultures that we do not agree with of course. How can anyone turn away from the love for Truth and Understanding they believe they have found in such? To live in Christ however, should we not constantly remind ourselves to not judge or look down upon others for seeking God in their own way? Even if we suspect that way is false. Take my being on this site as an example; there are issues of Orthodoxy I either do not understand, or do not hold as truth in my faith, that most others on here would view as my being wrong. If I was not accepted here, felt constantly judged, or looked down upon I would either not be here (I consider it a privilege and am humbled to take part by the by) or I would be in conflict with others on a human/worldly level. Perhaps even rejecting Orthodoxy all together. How could I possibly then see or have any misunderstandings revealled to me in that situation? Conflict rarely if ever leads to correction - but cannot God's love, understanding, acceptance, etc. reveal all that is Truth? idk Just thinking out loud I guess.

What does weigh heavily on my heart and mind at times is not unity but division. I accept and understand the profound significance of difference amongst Christian sects. That should not be overlooked in my opinion. However those differences, seems to me anyway, pale in comparison to our shared love and belief in God. I sometimes worry that the evil one uses those differences against us to divide, and hide the Truth within the conflict of our human nature.

I suppose that might make me a little radical too?  :) Wh

Lord have mercy on us all!


One God - one Love - one Kingdom     
Thanks for your honest , and intelectual response . Why is it so radical , or so evil for and Orthodox to shake a Seventh day Adventist hand , give him a hug , call him a brother may Jesus Christ bless your soul .
So much the lord loved the world so that , all who believe in him shall not perish , and receive eternal life .

Offline constantinethegreat

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Re: unity
« Reply #20 on: January 23, 2012, 01:10:17 AM »
Since you ask, I'll not sugar coat - what you propose is the religion of antichrist. The Church is already one and united. The apparent lack of unity in world-wide christendom is not due to an actual lack of unity in the church - it's due to a lot of people being outside the Church.
What am suggesting is not an anthichrist idea . Am not even suggesting that all christians should accept EACH OTHERS WAYS  .Am suggesting to form a coalition , and respect , and welcome all who believe in the THE FATHER , SON , AND HOLY SPIRIT . No more humiliating and talking bad about each other . There will be a time where you will have to choose between alliance with other christians , or face a muslim Jihad ! all by yourself .
So much the lord loved the world so that , all who believe in him shall not perish , and receive eternal life .

Offline LBK

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Re: unity
« Reply #21 on: January 23, 2012, 01:31:26 AM »
Quote
There will be a time where you will have to choose between alliance with other christians , or face a muslim Jihad ! all by yourself .

The Greeks endured nearly 400 years under the Moslem Ottomans, yet they emerged with their Orthodoxy intact. Russian Orthodoxy has come out of generations of brutal Soviet atheism without having to cosy up to any other religious denomination, Christian or otherwise.

Try again, constantinethegreat.
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Offline xariskai

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Re: unity
« Reply #22 on: January 23, 2012, 02:07:32 AM »
I Am suggesting to form a coalition , and respect , and welcome all who believe in the THE FATHER , SON , AND HOLY SPIRIT...
Hmm... the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit? May we ask in what sense, or does that not matter in your view?

You do realize in your OP you listed Mormons (polytheists), Jehovah's Witnesses (Arians/non-Trinitarian) and Pentecostals, a huge group of which are non-Trinitarian Sabellians? (Oneness Pentecostals, e.g. United Pentecostal Church International)

« Last Edit: January 23, 2012, 02:12:15 AM by xariskai »

Offline LBK

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Re: unity
« Reply #23 on: January 23, 2012, 02:11:36 AM »
I Am suggesting to form a coalition , and respect , and welcome all who believe in the THE FATHER , SON , AND HOLY SPIRIT...
Hmm... the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit? May we ask in what sense, or does that not matter in your view?

You do realize in your OP you listed Mormons (polytheists), Jehovah's Witnesses (Arians/non-Trinitarian) and Pentecostals, a huge group of which are non-Trinitarian Sabellians? (Oneness Pentecostals, e.g. United Pentecostal Church International)



... sshhhh! Don't confuse him with facts!  :o :laugh:
« Last Edit: January 23, 2012, 02:11:51 AM by LBK »
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Offline xariskai

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Re: unity
« Reply #24 on: January 23, 2012, 02:14:34 AM »
To be fair he hasn't said what he wants to unite for... (except possibly uniting against Jihad, which he did mention).

Quote from: constantinethegreat
Why is it so radical , or so evil for and Orthodox to shake a Seventh day Adventist hand , give him a hug...
Who said these things were evil and radical?

Perhaps constantinethegreat just needs a hug and a handshake...

« Last Edit: January 23, 2012, 02:23:50 AM by xariskai »

Offline Peter J

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Re: unity
« Reply #25 on: January 23, 2012, 09:30:25 AM »
What am suggesting is not an anthichrist idea . Am not even suggesting that all christians should accept EACH OTHERS WAYS  .Am suggesting to form a coalition , and respect , and welcome all who believe in the THE FATHER , SON , AND HOLY SPIRIT . No more humiliating and talking bad about each other . There will be a time where you will have to choose between alliance with other christians , or face a muslim Jihad ! all by yourself .

 Thanks for your honest , and intelectual response . Why is it so radical , or so evil for and Orthodox to shake a Seventh day Adventist hand , give him a hug , call him a brother may Jesus Christ bless your soul .

constantinethegreat, what you propose in your 2 posts this morning (or last night, depending on your time zone) doesn't sound too bad to me. The problem I have is more with what you said in the OP:

Quote
I dream of a united christian faith , where we all respect each others right to think n have an opinion , but all united under JEsus CHrist and the holy creator. Something like a congress where all christian religions have a say.

Of course, if you're looking for Orthodox opinions, I can't give you one b/c I'm Catholic.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2012, 09:32:36 AM by Peter J »
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Offline Knee V

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Re: unity
« Reply #26 on: January 23, 2012, 11:48:05 AM »
What am suggesting is not an anthichrist idea . Am not even suggesting that all christians should accept EACH OTHERS WAYS  .Am suggesting to form a coalition , and respect , and welcome all who believe in the THE FATHER , SON , AND HOLY SPIRIT . No more humiliating and talking bad about each other . There will be a time where you will have to choose between alliance with other christians , or face a muslim Jihad ! all by yourself .

Your OP didn't seem to indicate that. It seemed very much that you were suggesting having a single, unified Christianity (which I would agree we need, but under different terms) headed by a "congress" of sorts. While I certainly agree with respecting and loving all people no matter what they believe in, Orthodoxy cannot participate in something like that, be it what you said in your OP or what you said in the post that I've quoted here. If all people who claim to be Christians were being persecuted and a Mormon or JW came to me for help, I would certainly help him. But I would never participate in something that seemed to say that all of our faiths are equally valid or that our differences don't matter. We don't need a special coalition in order to love and respect each other. I wouldn't participate in one, and I would question the motives of any Orthodox clergy who would suggest that we should. Orthodoxy is what Christianity is. It is our place to safeguard that and invite others to share in it. It is not our place to compromise that message and pretend that Orthodoxy is just another "flavor" among many equally valid "flavors".

That doesn't mean that I'm against anyone or that I think less of them, or that I hate them or any other such thing. It doesn't mean that I don't respect their right to think and believe any way that they desire. It doesn't mean that I see them as any less in the image of God. It just means that Truth is Truth and cannot be compromised, and it would be a disservice to others to pretend that Orthodoxy is not the full, complete, and unchanged Christian faith as handed down to us from the Apostles. Those other groups should know that that actually does exist and that they are welcome to embrace it and participate in it.

If it came down to it, I'll stick with Orthodoxy all by itself, all alone and straight to the grave.

Offline Peter J

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Re: unity
« Reply #27 on: January 23, 2012, 01:49:35 PM »
If all people who claim to be Christians were being persecuted and a Mormon or JW came to me for help, I would certainly help him. But I would never participate in something that seemed to say that all of our faiths are equally valid or that our differences don't matter.

Well said.
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Offline alanscott

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Re: unity
« Reply #28 on: January 23, 2012, 01:59:39 PM »
I'm probably the last guy you should listen to on this subject but in my humble opinion to think, or perhaps better said imagine, such a thing sounds beautiful to me! To practically seek, or realistically consider it, might make you very radical indeed!  ;)

In a way I think you are touching upon a core principle of Christianity; 'To love your neighbor as yourself'
I am not saying we should embrace beliefs, dogmas, theologies or even traditions & cultures that we do not agree with of course. How can anyone turn away from the love for Truth and Understanding they believe they have found in such? To live in Christ however, should we not constantly remind ourselves to not judge or look down upon others for seeking God in their own way? Even if we suspect that way is false. Take my being on this site as an example; there are issues of Orthodoxy I either do not understand, or do not hold as truth in my faith, that most others on here would view as my being wrong. If I was not accepted here, felt constantly judged, or looked down upon I would either not be here (I consider it a privilege and am humbled to take part by the by) or I would be in conflict with others on a human/worldly level. Perhaps even rejecting Orthodoxy all together. How could I possibly then see or have any misunderstandings revealled to me in that situation? Conflict rarely if ever leads to correction - but cannot God's love, understanding, acceptance, etc. reveal all that is Truth? idk Just thinking out loud I guess.

What does weigh heavily on my heart and mind at times is not unity but division. I accept and understand the profound significance of difference amongst Christian sects. That should not be overlooked in my opinion. However those differences, seems to me anyway, pale in comparison to our shared love and belief in God. I sometimes worry that the evil one uses those differences against us to divide, and hide the Truth within the conflict of our human nature.

I suppose that might make me a little radical too?  :)

Lord have mercy on us all!


One God - one Love - one Kingdom     
Thanks for your honest , and intelectual response . Why is it so radical , or so evil for and Orthodox to shake a Seventh day Adventist hand , give him a hug , call him a brother may Jesus Christ bless your soul .

In that example I wouldn't think it is. I would be interested to know the Orthodox opinion however as perhaps there is something beyond my understanding. In my humble opinion to shake the hand of a seventh day Adventist and offer him love and the blessing of our Lord would clearly be 'to love thy neighbor'. If I may point out there is a significant difference between that and forming a coalition with him however. I have been taught to stand arm and arm with those that believe in the Trinity and Apostle's Creed as brethren in Christ regardless of our differences. I also try to remind myself to not look down or judge others that do not accept such Truth. That is between them and God. The important part for me is to not turn away from such Truth and remain focused on God regardless of what the world thinks. My role as a Christian simply includes spreading the Truth as it has been revealed to me. On one hand He tells us to love each other and Glorify His name. On the other hand He also warns us of not yoking together with unbelievers. Somewhere in between these two different yet coexisting laws is His will for us. If, and I do mean IF, my thought process here is not in conflict with Orthodoxy then perhaps the answer to your question might be; if our actions are of His will, and not contaminated with our own will, then does it really matter if a person considers you radical? I realize I'm not giving a concise answer to your original question. I'm just thinking along with you I guess and now wondering if the answer practically does exist and/or if it should even matter. Ya know?

In quest for Christ,

Scott







There are heathens that live with more virtue than I. The devil himself believes Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Neither of these things truly makes me Christian.

Offline Iconodule

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Re: unity
« Reply #29 on: January 23, 2012, 08:50:17 PM »
Wait, people are still trying to have an argument with this guy?
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Is to doubt a fit reply." - William Blake

Offline constantinethegreat

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Re: unity
« Reply #30 on: January 24, 2012, 01:40:41 AM »
Quote
There will be a time where you will have to choose between alliance with other christians , or face a muslim Jihad ! all by yourself .

The Greeks endured nearly 400 years under the Moslem Ottomans, yet they emerged with their Orthodoxy intact. Russian Orthodoxy has come out of generations of brutal Soviet atheism without having to cosy up to any other religious denomination, Christian or otherwise.

Try again, constantinethegreat.
I am refferring to a world wide jihad .
So much the lord loved the world so that , all who believe in him shall not perish , and receive eternal life .

Offline constantinethegreat

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Re: unity
« Reply #31 on: January 24, 2012, 01:47:05 AM »
I Am suggesting to form a coalition , and respect , and welcome all who believe in the THE FATHER , SON , AND HOLY SPIRIT...
Hmm... the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit? May we ask in what sense, or does that not matter in your view?

You do realize in your OP you listed Mormons (polytheists), Jehovah's Witnesses (Arians/non-Trinitarian) and Pentecostals, a huge group of which are non-Trinitarian Sabellians? (Oneness Pentecostals, e.g. United Pentecostal Church International)


Hehehe if I was to sit here on this forum and point out your every mistakes by all of you I would  waste too much time here . I leave this forum disgusted of your arrogance , and I hope one day you can learn to be humble .Because you are a bunch of simple minded people .


 Let me help you with your desire to leave the forum: you're Muted indefinitely.

Thanks for stopping by!
- Fr. George, Global Mod
« Last Edit: January 24, 2012, 02:48:22 PM by Fr. George »
So much the lord loved the world so that , all who believe in him shall not perish , and receive eternal life .

Offline LBK

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Re: unity
« Reply #32 on: January 24, 2012, 01:52:45 AM »
After three or four posts declaring you're leaving the forum, you're still here, constantinethegreat. May we poor ignorant fools know why?
No longer posting here. Anyone is welcome to email me at the address in my profile.

Offline vasily

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Re: unity
« Reply #33 on: January 24, 2012, 08:08:56 AM »
 This is very sad, but unfortunately what too many individuals desire, everyone gets along, being politically correct, expressing the ideas of commonality, and reducing Christianity to a set of values and/or practices that center on man, instead of to God. The Mormons, 7th Day Adventists and the Jehovah Witnesses, are all man made sects with no factual basis.. They have no roots to the early Church, are not Scripturally sound, and have no idea what an Ecumenical Council is. The Orthodox Church addresses to these outside of the Faith, a monologue inviting them to return to its fold through rejecting of any dissenting doctrines. Any compromise is foreign to the history of the Church.

 Christ did not establish many churches, but one church. His message is very clear, salvation and hope is through faith in Him. And if one were to seriously search and investigate what church is Christ centered, one would find the Orthodox Church. All others are the lost sheep, which the Orthodox Church needs to bring back to to True fold.

Offline primuspilus

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Re: unity
« Reply #34 on: January 24, 2012, 12:42:48 PM »
Quote
I leave this forum disgusted of your arrogance , and I hope one day you can learn to be humble
Wow, how could I have been so wrong....I have just read the most humble sentence outside of scripture..... ::)

PP
"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"
Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker

Offline Peter J

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Re: unity
« Reply #35 on: January 24, 2012, 02:01:43 PM »
Wait, people are still trying to have an argument with this guy?

Now that you mention it, it does seems like the OP has been discussed and responded to thoroughly. Maybe it's time to let this thread die and move on to other threads.
- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)