Author Topic: Catechumen. Catholics receiving communion.  (Read 2536 times)

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Offline quester

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Catechumen. Catholics receiving communion.
« on: January 17, 2012, 03:26:08 PM »
I am unsure which of the forums to post this message into but since I'm writing from the perspective of a convert, I've decided to put it in this forum.

So, here's the deal. I'm a former evangelical-protestant who's been baptised in an evangelical church years ago but for lack of a better word describe myself as a 'catechumen', the more so because I would like to receive baptism upon my reception into the Orthodox Church (hopefully this year).

However, there's a couple of Catholic folks at the local parish I attend who have not converted but attend the services almost every week and are now receiving communion with no objections being raised at all. Initially I was somewhat confused as I didn't recall them converting.

When I asked one of them if they'd become Orthodox, that person was puzzled by my question! Clearly, he had not, and had no intention of doing so, since (and I quote) 'we're all God's children'. I avoided any further discussion because it would have lead me nowhere.

None of this is making any sense to me and I do not understand why the priest is allowing this. These Catholic people don't know better but he should. Either this is hyper-ecumenism at work and/or fear of alienating Catholics by refusing to give them communion.

Frankly, the whole thing bugs me. I'm doing what I'm supposed to do, i.e. abstain from communion as long as I'm not chrismated/baptised, yet these folks who will remain Catholic are receiving communion? I thought Orthodoxy practised closed communion?  ::)

What are your thoughts and what do you think I should do?
« Last Edit: January 17, 2012, 03:28:38 PM by quester »

Offline HandmaidenofGod

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Re: Catechumen. Catholics receiving communion.
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2012, 03:29:10 PM »
Talk to your priest.

If he says "Oh, I didn't know they were Catholic." There is your answer.

If he does know, but still permits it, alert the Bishop.
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Offline Manalive

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Re: Catechumen. Catholics receiving communion.
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2012, 03:31:06 PM »
Have you been formally catechized? If this is indeed an Eastern Orthodox Church, find out who the Bishop is and contact him immediately. Communion with heretics is not a practice the Orthodox permit.
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Offline quester

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Re: Catechumen. Catholics receiving communion.
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2012, 03:32:27 PM »
Hi all,

He is very much aware of them being Catholics. That's the whole problem.

Edit: It really is an Orthodox parish. It's under the jurisdiction of the EPC.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2012, 03:33:16 PM by quester »

Offline quester

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Re: Catechumen. Catholics receiving communion.
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2012, 03:34:29 PM »
Have you been formally catechized? If this is indeed an Eastern Orthodox Church, find out who the Bishop is and contact him immediately. Communion with heretics is not a practice the Orthodox permit.


I must admit I'm not sure what formally catechized means. If you mean there is some official written statement of my becoming a catechumen, then no.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2012, 03:35:04 PM by quester »

Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: Catechumen. Catholics receiving communion.
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2012, 03:36:16 PM »
I suppose you could bring it up to your bishop, though it could be taken in either a good of bad way. The problem might get fixed... but they might also see you as overstepping certain boundaries (I think they'd be wrong, I'm just saying). I think your concern is legitimate, but I would be extra humble and even-keeled if/when reporting the issue.

EDIT--Regarding catechesis, it differs from parish to parish, but for me a specific catechist was assigned to me and we determined a date for the catechumenate to end.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2012, 03:37:04 PM by Asteriktos »

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Catechumen. Catholics receiving communion.
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2012, 03:38:24 PM »
Hi all,

He is very much aware of them being Catholics. That's the whole problem.

Edit: It really is an Orthodox parish. It's under the jurisdiction of the EPC.
EPC?
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Catechumen. Catholics receiving communion.
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2012, 03:40:03 PM »
Talk to your priest.

If he says "Oh, I didn't know they were Catholic." There is your answer.

If he does know, but still permits it, alert the Bishop.
I'd also try to find out why they are attending and communing at an Orthodox Church, as I take it you are not where the Vatican doesn't have any parishes.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
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If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline quester

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Re: Catechumen. Catholics receiving communion.
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2012, 03:40:20 PM »
Hi all,

He is very much aware of them being Catholics. That's the whole problem.

Edit: It really is an Orthodox parish. It's under the jurisdiction of the EPC.
EPC?

Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople.

Offline biro

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Re: Catechumen. Catholics receiving communion.
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2012, 03:40:33 PM »
Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantiople, I'm guessing.

Is it possible these two people are new converts? If they've actually converted, they'd no longer be RCC and there wouldn't be a problem. Just a thought.

Offline Basil 320

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Re: Catechumen. Catholics receiving communion.
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2012, 03:44:03 PM »
The priest should be reported to the bishop, then, to the Archbishop and Synod in New York if there is no action by the bishop, assuming "EPC" does refer to the the Ecumenical Patriarchate.
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Offline mike

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Re: Catechumen. Catholics receiving communion.
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2012, 03:44:36 PM »
Actually if they take Communion only there it means they've converted.
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Offline quester

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Re: Catechumen. Catholics receiving communion.
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2012, 03:44:45 PM »
Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantiople, I'm guessing.

Is it possible these two people are new converts? If they've actually converted, they'd no longer be RCC and there wouldn't be a problem. Just a thought.

Highly unlikely as I indicated in my original post. At least one of them attended the Orthodox parish long before I ever showed up and decided to become a catechumen.

Offline biro

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Re: Catechumen. Catholics receiving communion.
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2012, 03:45:58 PM »
Okay. I stand corrected.  :)

Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: Catechumen. Catholics receiving communion.
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2012, 03:46:26 PM »
Actually if they take Communion only there it means they've converted.

Say what? So all these people going through months--sometimes years--of being a catechumen are doing it wrong? You just show up, start taking communion, and voila, you're Orthodox?  :police:

Offline quester

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Re: Catechumen. Catholics receiving communion.
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2012, 03:48:20 PM »
Talk to your priest.

If he says "Oh, I didn't know they were Catholic." There is your answer.

If he does know, but still permits it, alert the Bishop.
I'd also try to find out why they are attending and communing at an Orthodox Church, as I take it you are not where the Vatican doesn't have any parishes.

I've updated my profile so you can find out where I am located. I do indeed live in a supposedly Catholic country. Orthodox parishes are rare and attract visitors who are intrigued by the Orthodox liturgy, among them many Catholics. I think you also have to realise that many of these people aren't really into theology and just don't know any better, which is why I'm more concerned about the priest.

Offline quester

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Re: Catechumen. Catholics receiving communion.
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2012, 03:51:16 PM »
Actually if they take Communion only there it means they've converted.

Say what? So all these people going through months--sometimes years--of being a catechumen are doing it wrong? You just show up, start taking communion, and voila, you're Orthodox?  :police:

Yes, imagine how you feel if you've been struggling to become Orthodox for over a year and refraining from participating in the sacraments only to find that some can partake in the mysteries without converting.

Offline biro

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Re: Catechumen. Catholics receiving communion.
« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2012, 03:53:45 PM »
I would just discuss this with the priest.

Offline quester

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Re: Catechumen. Catholics receiving communion.
« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2012, 04:02:59 PM »
Quote from: Asteriktos
I suppose you could bring it up to your bishop, though it could be taken in either a good of bad way. The problem might get fixed... but they might also see you as overstepping certain boundaries (I think they'd be wrong, I'm just saying). I think your concern is legitimate, but I would be extra humble and even-keeled if/when reporting the issue.

Yes, you see, this is a very small parish. It has a limited number of people regularly attending. Among those regularly attending are non-Orthodox, such as myself and these Catholic folks, whom I've talked to and otherwise have nothing against on a personal level. I am not sure what to make of the priest as I believe he's applying a double standard. I will have to talk to him sooner or later and was planning on doing so over the next few weeks. I will carefully try to find out more and make sure these folks have indeed not converted, but as I stated earlier, there is no reason to believe they did at all. In that case, I'll either have to ignore it altogether and pretend I didn't see anything (which goes against my character and principles) or attend another parish (there are few).
« Last Edit: January 17, 2012, 04:04:56 PM by quester »

Offline Maria

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Re: Catechumen. Catholics receiving communion.
« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2012, 04:15:21 PM »
Quote from: Asteriktos
I suppose you could bring it up to your bishop, though it could be taken in either a good of bad way. The problem might get fixed... but they might also see you as overstepping certain boundaries (I think they'd be wrong, I'm just saying). I think your concern is legitimate, but I would be extra humble and even-keeled if/when reporting the issue.

Yes, you see, this is a very small parish. It has a limited number of people regularly attending. Among those regularly attending are non-Orthodox, such as myself and these Catholic folks, whom I've talked to and otherwise have nothing against on a personal level. I am not sure what to make of the priest as I believe he's applying a double standard. I will have to talk to him sooner or later and was planning on doing so over the next few weeks. I will carefully try to find out more and make sure these folks have indeed not converted, but as I stated earlier, there is no reason to believe they did at all. In that case, I'll either have to ignore it altogether and pretend I didn't see anything (which goes against my character and principles) or attend another parish (there are few).

I know of several Catholics who were allowed to receive Holy Communion in the Greek Orthodox Church (GOARCH).  One was apparently allowed to receive Holy Communion after reciting the Creed during the Divine Liturgy. However, after six months of receiving in this fashion, he came to me one day and told me that he was suddenly asked to come to the church at Saturday Vespers where he was chrismated. Apparently, the priest became alarmed when another Catholic convert received by recitation of the Creed had reverted to Catholicism.

Another Catholic was serving on a ship and was stationed in Greece where there was no Catholic Church nearby. The Orthodox Priest said that he would serve him Holy Communion every Sunday if he would confess to him once a month. He did so, and after two years, when he returned to the states, he entered an Eastern Catholic monastery.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2012, 04:18:09 PM by Maria »
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Offline Ansgar

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Re: Catechumen. Catholics receiving communion.
« Reply #20 on: January 17, 2012, 04:29:57 PM »
Talk to your priest.

If he says "Oh, I didn't know they were Catholic." There is your answer.

If he does know, but still permits it, alert the Bishop.
I'd also try to find out why they are attending and communing at an Orthodox Church, as I take it you are not where the Vatican doesn't have any parishes.

I've updated my profile so you can find out where I am located. I do indeed live in a supposedly Catholic country. Orthodox parishes are rare and attract visitors who are intrigued by the Orthodox liturgy, among them many Catholics. I think you also have to realise that many of these people aren't really into theology and just don't know any better, which is why I'm more concerned about the priest.
Do you by any chance have a link to this parish?
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Offline quester

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Re: Catechumen. Catholics receiving communion.
« Reply #21 on: January 17, 2012, 04:30:36 PM »
Quote from: Asteriktos
I suppose you could bring it up to your bishop, though it could be taken in either a good of bad way. The problem might get fixed... but they might also see you as overstepping certain boundaries (I think they'd be wrong, I'm just saying). I think your concern is legitimate, but I would be extra humble and even-keeled if/when reporting the issue.

Yes, you see, this is a very small parish. It has a limited number of people regularly attending. Among those regularly attending are non-Orthodox, such as myself and these Catholic folks, whom I've talked to and otherwise have nothing against on a personal level. I am not sure what to make of the priest as I believe he's applying a double standard. I will have to talk to him sooner or later and was planning on doing so over the next few weeks. I will carefully try to find out more and make sure these folks have indeed not converted, but as I stated earlier, there is no reason to believe they did at all. In that case, I'll either have to ignore it altogether and pretend I didn't see anything (which goes against my character and principles) or attend another parish (there are few).

I know of several Catholics who were allowed to receive Holy Communion in the Greek Orthodox Church (GOARCH).  One was apparently allowed to receive Holy Communion after reciting the Creed during the Divine Liturgy. However, after six months of receiving in this fashion, he came to me one day and told me that he was suddenly asked to come to the church at Saturday Vespers where he was chrismated. Apparently, the priest became alarmed when another Catholic convert received by recitation of the Creed had reverted to Catholicism.

Another Catholic was serving on a ship and was stationed in Greece where there was no Catholic Church nearby. The Orthodox Priest said that he would serve him Holy Communion every Sunday if he would confess to him once a month. He did so, and after two years, when he returned to the states, he entered an Eastern Catholic monastery.

I understand why some Orthodox insist on having all non-Orthodox baptised. In many Western countries where Orthodoxy is a tiny minority, there are too many people who want to enjoy the best of both worlds, and 'thanks' to ecumenism they believe they have a right to do so. This also explains why these people don't understand my wanting to convert. They just don't think it's necessary.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2012, 04:31:38 PM by quester »

Offline William

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Re: Catechumen. Catholics receiving communion.
« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2012, 04:49:49 PM »
In that case, I'll either have to ignore it altogether and pretend I didn't see anything (which goes against my character and principles) or attend another parish (there are few).
...Or report it to the bishop.  :-\
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Offline quester

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Re: Catechumen. Catholics receiving communion.
« Reply #23 on: January 17, 2012, 05:02:24 PM »
In that case, I'll either have to ignore it altogether and pretend I didn't see anything (which goes against my character and principles) or attend another parish (there are few).
...Or report it to the bishop.  :-\

I will find myself in a precarious situation, but in a worst-case scenario, I suppose I won't have a choice. It'll also mark the end of my attending that parish, I'm afraid.

Offline Thomas

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Re: Catechumen. Catholics receiving communion.
« Reply #24 on: January 17, 2012, 06:16:20 PM »
I would not be afraid to discuss this frankly with your priest---he may know something about the case that you don't---the two "catholics" themselves may be confused. Get it out in the open with him as your catechist and it will make you feel better in the end I believe.

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Re: Catechumen. Catholics receiving communion.
« Reply #25 on: January 17, 2012, 08:52:05 PM »
And what will you do if you find out he is doing this with his bishop's blessing?  It does occur despite all the protests here.  In fact it is quite common in the Middle East.
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Re: Catechumen. Catholics receiving communion.
« Reply #26 on: January 17, 2012, 09:01:55 PM »
And what will you do if you find out he is doing this with his bishop's blessing?  It does occur despite all the protests here.  In fact it is quite common in the Middle East.

Just because it happens doesn't mean it's right. And if his bishop has okayed it (unlikely, but possible), then he should also be brought to book. Even if a patriarch were to condone such a practice, he is not immune from censure. His fellow bishops have every right, and, indeed, the responsibility, to take action.
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Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: Catechumen. Catholics receiving communion.
« Reply #27 on: January 17, 2012, 09:26:02 PM »
And what will you do if you find out he is doing this with his bishop's blessing?  It does occur despite all the protests here.  In fact it is quite common in the Middle East.

Just because it happens doesn't mean it's right. And if his bishop has okayed it (unlikely, but possible), then he should also be brought to book. Even if a patriarch were to condone such a practice, he is not immune from censure. His fellow bishops have every right, and, indeed, the responsibility, to take action.

A bishop doesn't have the right to exercise economy?  Where is the censure for Patriarch Ignatius IV?  Surely all the other primates are aware of what goes on in the Middle East?
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Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Catechumen. Catholics receiving communion.
« Reply #28 on: January 17, 2012, 09:33:39 PM »
And what will you do if you find out he is doing this with his bishop's blessing?  It does occur despite all the protests here.  In fact it is quite common in the Middle East.

Just because it happens doesn't mean it's right. And if his bishop has okayed it (unlikely, but possible), then he should also be brought to book. Even if a patriarch were to condone such a practice, he is not immune from censure. His fellow bishops have every right, and, indeed, the responsibility, to take action.

A bishop doesn't have the right to exercise economy?  Where is the censure for Patriarch Ignatius IV?  Surely all the other primates are aware of what goes on in the Middle East?

Deacon, you should know by now that facts never should get in the way of a strongly held opinion!  ;)

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Re: Catechumen. Catholics receiving communion.
« Reply #29 on: January 17, 2012, 09:35:25 PM »
And what will you do if you find out he is doing this with his bishop's blessing?  It does occur despite all the protests here.  In fact it is quite common in the Middle East.

Just because it happens doesn't mean it's right. And if his bishop has okayed it (unlikely, but possible), then he should also be brought to book. Even if a patriarch were to condone such a practice, he is not immune from censure. His fellow bishops have every right, and, indeed, the responsibility, to take action.

A bishop doesn't have the right to exercise economy?  Where is the censure for Patriarch Ignatius IV?  Surely all the other primates are aware of what goes on in the Middle East?

I'm sorry, but allowing Catholics to commune in a country where Catholics are the majority (as the OP has stated is the case) is not economy; it's sacrilege. I'm all for exercising economy out of necessity, but in this case, I would agree that this is a horrible abuse if the priest is communing Catholics when they are the majority in the area, because there is no necessity in the situation. They should receive communion in their own parishes.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2012, 09:49:21 PM by Cavaradossi »
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Re: Catechumen. Catholics receiving communion.
« Reply #30 on: January 17, 2012, 09:40:04 PM »
And what will you do if you find out he is doing this with his bishop's blessing?  It does occur despite all the protests here.  In fact it is quite common in the Middle East.

I was thinking the same. I've seen Catholics commune in an Orthodox parish and this particular priest might well have his bishop's blessing in this, as did the priest at that parish. I'm honestly wondering if a catechumen should venture to rock the boat on this one. It might set you up as one of "those convert know-it-alls" and spoil the relationship you have with the parish. If it bothers you that much, ask the priest what the deal is, but I wouldn't go reporting it. Just my opinion.
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Offline Maria

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Re: Catechumen. Catholics receiving communion.
« Reply #31 on: January 17, 2012, 09:43:58 PM »
And what will you do if you find out he is doing this with his bishop's blessing?  It does occur despite all the protests here.  In fact it is quite common in the Middle East.

I was thinking the same. I've seen Catholics commune in an Orthodox parish and this particular priest might well have his bishop's blessing in this, as did the priest at that parish. I'm honestly wondering if a catechumen should venture to rock the boat on this one. It might set you up as one of "those convert know-it-alls" and spoil the relationship you have with the parish. If it bothers you that much, ask the priest what the deal is, but I wouldn't go reporting it. Just my opinion.

I think it would be a better idea to discuss this privately with your priest. Ask him if some people are allowed to become Orthodox merely by reciting the Nicene Creed and offering their confession?  I do know that this occurs in some MP parishes where Catholics are received in this manner and are not chrismated.

Anyway, ecumenism has infected many priests and bishops. If this bothers you, then you might consider going to one of the True Orthodox Churches where intercommunion is not allowed.
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Re: Catechumen. Catholics receiving communion.
« Reply #32 on: January 17, 2012, 09:53:10 PM »
Quote
If this bothers you, then you might consider going to one of the True Orthodox Churches where intercommunion is not allowed.

There is no need to go to one of these groups. I have been a member of several jurisdictions and parishes, and none of the priests I know would commune anyone other than someone canonically received into the Church. In fact, many of these will not commune those not in canonical "Orthodox" jurisdictions - in my time I've seen plenty of such folks turned away from the chalice; and those of Slavic origin will not commune anyone who has not been to prior confession. So, as far as the Slavic churches go, it's pretty safe to rule out the possibility of any communion of non-Orthodox.
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Offline stashko

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Re: Catechumen. Catholics receiving communion.
« Reply #33 on: January 17, 2012, 09:54:13 PM »
I totally Against Some Of Our Orthodox Bishops  , Patriarchs, Metropolitans ,Sowing this Confusing amongst the Orthodox ,by recognizing the Sacraments,And Orders Of the Roman Catholic Heretics, And Some of the Protestant Groups....It Leads To Confusion on Both sides.....I'll start avoiding the Canonical Orthodox Church and sticking with the Non Canonical ones instead ,The True Defenders Of Holy Orthodoxy..... :police:
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Offline Maria

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Re: Catechumen. Catholics receiving communion.
« Reply #34 on: January 17, 2012, 10:00:12 PM »
Quote
If this bothers you, then you might consider going to one of the True Orthodox Churches where intercommunion is not allowed.

There is no need to go to one of these groups. I have been a member of several jurisdictions and parishes, and none of the priests I know would commune anyone other than someone canonically received into the Church. In fact, many of these will not commune those not in canonical "Orthodox" jurisdictions - in my time I've seen plenty of such folks turned away from the chalice; and those of Slavic origin will not commune anyone who has not been to prior confession. So, as far as the Slavic churches go, it's pretty safe to rule out the possibility of any communion of non-Orthodox.

I have observed this problem of intercommunion in every CANONICAL jurisdiction I have visited.
Not only are Orthodox parishioners receiving communion in Catholic Churches, but they also receive communion in Protestant churches. In Greek and Antiochian parishes, parents are allowed to have one Catholic godparent and one Orthodox Christian godparent if they are in a Catholic-Orthodox interfaith marriage. This confuses the child who is taken to both Catholic and Orthodox Churches to receive communion.
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Offline Cavaradossi

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Re: Catechumen. Catholics receiving communion.
« Reply #35 on: January 17, 2012, 10:02:44 PM »
Quote
If this bothers you, then you might consider going to one of the True Orthodox Churches where intercommunion is not allowed.

There is no need to go to one of these groups. I have been a member of several jurisdictions and parishes, and none of the priests I know would commune anyone other than someone canonically received into the Church. In fact, many of these will not commune those not in canonical "Orthodox" jurisdictions - in my time I've seen plenty of such folks turned away from the chalice; and those of Slavic origin will not commune anyone who has not been to prior confession. So, as far as the Slavic churches go, it's pretty safe to rule out the possibility of any communion of non-Orthodox.

I have observed this problem of intercommunion in every CANONICAL jurisdiction I have visited.
Not only are Orthodox parishioners receiving communion in Catholic Churches, but they also receive communion in Protestant churches. In Greek and Antiochian parishes, parents are allowed to have one Catholic godparent and one Orthodox Christian godparent if they are in a Catholic-Orthodox interfaith marriage. This confuses the child who is taken to both Catholic and Orthodox Churches to receive communion.

I don't think my parish (GOA) allows for any of those things. Perhaps these problems are present in some parishes, but not universally.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2012, 10:05:11 PM by Cavaradossi »
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Re: Catechumen. Catholics receiving communion.
« Reply #36 on: January 17, 2012, 10:06:22 PM »
Quote
If this bothers you, then you might consider going to one of the True Orthodox Churches where intercommunion is not allowed.

There is no need to go to one of these groups. I have been a member of several jurisdictions and parishes, and none of the priests I know would commune anyone other than someone canonically received into the Church. In fact, many of these will not commune those not in canonical "Orthodox" jurisdictions - in my time I've seen plenty of such folks turned away from the chalice; and those of Slavic origin will not commune anyone who has not been to prior confession. So, as far as the Slavic churches go, it's pretty safe to rule out the possibility of any communion of non-Orthodox.

I have observed this problem of intercommunion in every CANONICAL jurisdiction I have visited.
Not only are Orthodox parishioners receiving communion in Catholic Churches, but they also receive communion in Protestant churches. In Greek and Antiochian parishes, parents are allowed to have one Catholic godparent and one Orthodox Christian godparent if they are in a Catholic-Orthodox interfaith marriage. This confuses the child who is taken to both Catholic and Orthodox Churches to receive communion.

I don't think my parish (GOA) allows for any of those things. Perhaps these problems are present in some parishes, but not universally.

I think the problem is more rampant in the USA and in the Middle East, especially in the Greek and Antiochian Orthodox Churches. However, I have met some very lovely OCA senior citizens who do not understand why they cannot receive communion in Catholic and Protestant churches whenever they visit their children, grandchildren, and great grandchildren.

Are members of the ROCOR jurisdiction more educated in the faith?
« Last Edit: January 17, 2012, 10:09:50 PM by Maria »
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Re: Catechumen. Catholics receiving communion.
« Reply #37 on: January 17, 2012, 10:18:59 PM »
Quote
I have observed this problem of intercommunion in every CANONICAL jurisdiction I have visited.
Not only are Orthodox parishioners receiving communion in Catholic Churches, but they also receive communion in Protestant churches. In Greek and Antiochian parishes, parents are allowed to have one Catholic godparent and one Orthodox Christian godparent if they are in a Catholic-Orthodox interfaith marriage. This confuses the child who is taken to both Catholic and Orthodox Churches to receive communion.

Never come across this in some 50 years of Orthodox experience, and in more than one country and several jurisdictions, as well as mixed marriages in the family. Whatever church a child is baptized into becomes where the child continues to receive communion, without crossover. I've seen RC baptisms (including in my own family) where one Godparent is Orthodox, but never the other way around. And no cross-communion whatsoever with Protestants.
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Re: Catechumen. Catholics receiving communion.
« Reply #38 on: January 17, 2012, 10:26:15 PM »
Quote
If this bothers you, then you might consider going to one of the True Orthodox Churches where intercommunion is not allowed.

There is no need to go to one of these groups. I have been a member of several jurisdictions and parishes, and none of the priests I know would commune anyone other than someone canonically received into the Church. In fact, many of these will not commune those not in canonical "Orthodox" jurisdictions - in my time I've seen plenty of such folks turned away from the chalice; and those of Slavic origin will not commune anyone who has not been to prior confession. So, as far as the Slavic churches go, it's pretty safe to rule out the possibility of any communion of non-Orthodox.

I have observed this problem of intercommunion in every CANONICAL jurisdiction I have visited.
Not only are Orthodox parishioners receiving communion in Catholic Churches, but they also receive communion in Protestant churches. In Greek and Antiochian parishes, parents are allowed to have one Catholic godparent and one Orthodox Christian godparent if they are in a Catholic-Orthodox interfaith marriage. This confuses the child who is taken to both Catholic and Orthodox Churches to receive communion.

I don't think my parish (GOA) allows for any of those things. Perhaps these problems are present in some parishes, but not universally.

I think the problem is more rampant in the USA and in the Middle East, especially in the Greek and Antiochian Orthodox Churches. However, I have met some very lovely OCA senior citizens who do not understand why they cannot receive communion in Catholic and Protestant churches whenever they visit their children, grandchildren, and great grandchildren.

Are members of the ROCOR jurisdiction more educated in the faith?

I don't know about how well educated members of ROCOR are, as I attend a GOA parish, but I will say that in the Middle East, there are a lot of factors which make intercommunion a bit more common place. The Melkite Catholic-Antiochian Orthodox schism is still quite recent (in terms of Church history), and the split affects many people who may not have necessarily chosen to be in their situation. Throw in the complications presented by living as a minority in Muslim lands, and you have a recipe for intercommunion through economy. I don't know if we can really criticize the Antiochians for what's happening.

However, in America, where we know that such things are unnecessary, I think it's safe to say that they should not happen, and I really don't think I've seen it happen. At my parish, even though most of them are probably not too well educated in their faith, I don't think there's any confusion amongst them whether or not they can commune in Catholic or Protestant churches. Perhaps your experience with seeing the abuse of economy to allow for intercommunion and non-Orthodox godparents is just extraordinary.
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Re: Catechumen. Catholics receiving communion.
« Reply #39 on: January 17, 2012, 10:36:13 PM »
Quote
At my parish, even though most of them are probably not too well educated in their faith, I don't think there's any confusion amongst them whether or not they can commune in Catholic or Protestant churches.

It almost doesn't matter if the laity is or is not "well-educated". It's primarily the responsibility of the priests to ensure the chalice is guarded. And only a few of these priests I have encountered in my life went to seminary. But ALL knew better than to commune anyone who was not Orthodox.
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

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Re: Catechumen. Catholics receiving communion.
« Reply #40 on: January 17, 2012, 11:01:42 PM »
Quote
At my parish, even though most of them are probably not too well educated in their faith, I don't think there's any confusion amongst them whether or not they can commune in Catholic or Protestant churches.

It almost doesn't matter if the laity is or is not "well-educated". It's primarily the responsibility of the priests to ensure the chalice is guarded. And only a few of these priests I have encountered in my life went to seminary. But ALL knew better than to commune anyone who was not Orthodox.

Yes, and the noble ideal that the Orthodox Priest is to guard the Chalice is what appealed to me when I was looking into Orthodoxy, but after several years of being inside CANONICAL Orthodoxy, I have sadly learned that many priests really cannot practice what they preach as pastors because many folks are so naive and confused with the rampant ecumenism. What does one do when the local Orthodox Cathedral has an annual Christmas Chorale in which choirs from Catholic and Oriental Orthodox Churches also participate? Several times the same cathedral had an Ecumenical Vespers service where female Episcopal priests stood on the Solea just outside of the Iconostasis and read prayers. Many of the laity think that intercommunion is already a fact. Can you blame them?

Edited: it was not the Altar, but the Solea on which the non-Orthodox ministers stood.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2012, 11:19:35 PM by Maria »
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Re: Catechumen. Catholics receiving communion.
« Reply #41 on: January 17, 2012, 11:12:35 PM »
Several times the same cathedral had an Ecumenical Vespers service where female Episcopal priests stood on the altar and read prayers.

Where and when did this take place? Does the bishop know?
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Offline Maria

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Re: Catechumen. Catholics receiving communion.
« Reply #42 on: January 17, 2012, 11:16:01 PM »
Several times the same cathedral had an Ecumenical Vespers service where female Episcopal priests stood on the altar and read prayers.

Where and when did this take place? Does the bishop know?

Yes, Bishop Anthony, of blessed memory, was in attendance as I recall. This took place in Los Angeles at St. Sophia Cathedral. Correction: The non-Orthodox ministers stood on the Solea just outside of the Iconostasis.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2012, 11:17:20 PM by Maria »
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Re: Catechumen. Catholics receiving communion.
« Reply #43 on: January 17, 2012, 11:25:26 PM »
Correction: The non-Orthodox ministers stood on the Solea just outside of the Iconostasis.

OK; that does make a difference.
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Re: Catechumen. Catholics receiving communion.
« Reply #44 on: January 17, 2012, 11:26:22 PM »
Correction: The non-Orthodox ministers stood on the Solea just outside of the Iconostasis.

OK; that does make a difference.

Thanks for pointing that out, Father.
I corrected my original post too.
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