Works from outside the Church in the churches

[jaroslavkourakin]

Ok, so here is what I have seen.

In Cyprus at least a couple monasteries/churches sold copies with a metallic covering of Da vinci's Last Supper. Beside Da Vinci not being an Orthodox, the painting itself has Mary Magdalene instead of the disciple to His right. This would also express the Gospel he believed in which is not compatible with the Orthodox faith.

Then, many churches have invited Santa Claus in and outside the church building in the form of sculptures and images on Christmas tree ornaments such as the Russian orthodox church in our city that has a Christmas tree right inside the church and almost right in front of the big icon of the crucified Christ.

And also, in the same Russian church there is an "icon" of the transfiguration, but it is not an orthodox icon, but a copy of a crop of the Vatican painting of the transfiguration made by Raphael.

So what is happening here, why can they not use even a little discernment to see these things do not belong in the Church?

Also, I am surprised that there is no (until perhaps very recently) Orthodox English translation of the complete Bible, but the churches/monasteries sell/give protestant and even Catholic translations. How is this?

[witega]

Beside Da Vinci not being an Orthodox, the painting itself has Mary Magdalene instead of the disciple to His right.

That is St. John the Evangelist to the right of Christ in Da Vinci's painting. (Yes, he does look very feminine but the depiction of St. John as a 'beardless youth' during the time of Christ's ministry has a long pedigree and matches the Gospel account).

[jaroslavkourakin]

There are apparently two versions of it. The first can in no way be seen as a man,

http://freechristimages.org/images_Christ_life/The_Last_Supper_Restored_Da_Vinci.jpg

The second one might, however look at the comment for it.

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/4375873

Here's the story as told in the literature published by this parrish: Da Vinci was so afraid that the Church would destroy his "heretical" painting of the Last Supper that he dispatched a pupil to this then very remote locale to paint an exact replica, though magnified hundreds of times in fresco, and to preserve the work for all posterity. This copy remains in such pristine condition that, unlike the original, the viewer can easily identify each of the figures, including the young woman—clearly NOT a boy—seated demurely at Christ's right hand. This figure was of course Da Vinci's vision of Mary Magdalene, wife to the young, heretical rabbi Jesus of Nazareth. When one notes the considerable agitation obvious in the faces and poses of the other apostles, once realizes that their unrest is due to Mary's presence at Christ's side. In fact, the bald apostle who is literally breathing down Mary's neck with a look of outrage and muderous intent is actually concealing a knife in his right hand while gesturing past Mary to her husband with his left. She, head tilted toward the assassin, is no doubt respectfully listening to his threats against her and her husband. Also note the gaping "V"-shaped space between Mary and Christ. Could this "V" stand for Venus, and might it not also have inspired Thomas Pynchon's novel of the same name?

Nevertheless it is not Orthodox artwork. At least the first one also resembles the art style that is in the Vatican.

[Melodist]

Concerning the Last Supper, The Davinci Code is a work of fiction, even according to the author.

Concerning the use of items and customs that are not typically used in traditionally Orthodox cultures, The Ark of the Covenant was made out of Egyptian Gold and the temple was built using the cedars of lebanon.

[jaroslavkourakin]

Concerning the Last Supper, The Davinci Code is a work of fiction, even according to the author.

Concerning the use of items and customs that are not typically used in traditionally Orthodox cultures, The Ark of the Covenant was made out of Egyptian Gold and the temple was built using the cedars of lebanon.

That's a far stretch. You mention raw materials, I mention the final product and the hands that made them.

Another thing I might add, the Moscow Patriarcate here in Stockholm is renting it's 'church' (which apparently is only a local on the second floor of a building) from the Swedish church. Heretics! Who have a lesbian Bishop over entire Stockholm I might add.

[Melodist]

That's a far stretch. You mention raw materials, I mention the final product and the hands that made them.

You mentioned cultural expressions. The Orthodox faith is not a cultural expression.

Another thing I might add, the Moscow Patriarcate here in Stockholm is renting it's 'church' (which apparently is only a local on the second floor of a building) from the Swedish church. Heretics! Who have a lesbian Bishop over entire Stockholm I might add.

Whose signature is on the antimension and who do they commemorate during the liturgy?

[Ansgar]

Concerning the Last Supper, The Davinci Code is a work of fiction, even according to the author.

Concerning the use of items and customs that are not typically used in traditionally Orthodox cultures, The Ark of the Covenant was made out of Egyptian Gold and the temple was built using the cedars of lebanon.

That's a far stretch. You mention raw materials, I mention the final product and the hands that made them.

Another thing I might add, the Moscow Patriarcate here in Stockholm is renting it's 'church' (which apparently is only a local on the second floor of a building) from the Swedish church. Heretics! Who have a lesbian Bishop over entire Stockholm I might add.

Renting churches is actually very common in Europe for those who are not been able to buy or built their own church.

[jaroslavkourakin]

You mentioned cultural expressions. The Orthodox faith is not a cultural expression.

I'm pretty sure that it is. The culture of the Orthodox Church is another revelation.

Whose signature is on the antimension and who do they commemorate during the liturgy?

I don't think there is anything wrong there. But I think renting from heretics is worse than from infidels. I don't even see why this should be necessary.

"But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema."

"Look to yourselves, that you lose not the things which you have wrought: but that you may receive a full reward. Whosoever revolteth, and continueth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that continueth in the doctrine, the same hath both the Father and the Son. If any man come to you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into the house nor say to him, God speed you. For he that saith unto him, God speed you, communicateth with his wicked works."

Another terrible thing. The Ayia Kyriaki Church in Paphos has been donated to the heretics! What is happening?!

I'm even using the Douay Rheims for the citation of these verses because I do find not an adequate Orthodox Bible online.

This one is missing 2 John!
http://www.orthodoxanswers.org/eob/download/EOBNT062011e.pdf

[Asteriktos]

I'm a KJV-Mostly

[Michał Kalina]

I'm pretty sure that it is. The culture of the Orthodox Church is another revelation.

Just WOW.

I don't think there is anything wrong there. But I think renting from heretics is worse than from infidels. I don't even see why this should be necessary.

Even Apostles prayed in synagogues. It's a rather old small t-radition.

[PeterTheAleut]

Ok, so here is what I have seen.

In Cyprus at least a couple monasteries/churches sold copies with a metallic covering of Da vinci's Last Supper. Beside Da Vinci not being an Orthodox, the painting itself has Mary Magdalene instead of the disciple to His right. This would also express the Gospel he believed in which is not compatible with the Orthodox faith.

Then, many churches have invited Santa Claus in and outside the church building in the form of sculptures and images on Christmas tree ornaments such as the Russian orthodox church in our city that has a Christmas tree right inside the church and almost right in front of the big icon of the crucified Christ.

And also, in the same Russian church there is an "icon" of the transfiguration, but it is not an orthodox icon, but a copy of a crop of the Vatican painting of the transfiguration made by Raphael.

So what is happening here, why can they not use even a little discernment to see these things do not belong in the Church?

Why do they not belong in the Church? And according to whose opinion? Is there some absolute law stating this?

Also, I am surprised that there is no (until perhaps very recently) Orthodox English translation of the complete Bible, but the churches/monasteries sell/give protestant and even Catholic translations. How is this?

Why is this Orthodox "purity" so important to you? Reading your posts, one would think there's nothing good outside the Orthodox Church, and that even within the Church one must do everything exactly the correct way or one is not Orthodox. I suggest that this line of thinking may be quite dangerous.

[KBN1]

Concerning the Last Supper, The Davinci Code is a work of fiction, even according to the author.

Concerning the use of items and customs that are not typically used in traditionally Orthodox cultures, The Ark of the Covenant was made out of Egyptian Gold and the temple was built using the cedars of lebanon.

That's a far stretch. You mention raw materials, I mention the final product and the hands that made them.

Another thing I might add, the Moscow Patriarcate here in Stockholm is renting it's 'church' (which apparently is only a local on the second floor of a building) from the Swedish church. Heretics! Who have a lesbian Bishop over entire Stockholm I might add.

So you are saying that the Orthodox Church has contact with the Swedish church?  Praise God!

[JamesRottnek]

I think it may be prudent to take a step back and ask yourself "Why might I be seeing so many things I object to, in the Orthodox Church?"  and "Why might they be doing these things?"

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