OrthodoxChristianity.net
October 23, 2014, 09:12:11 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Works from outside the Church in the churches  (Read 641 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
jaroslavkourakin
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 173



« on: January 16, 2012, 11:04:13 PM »

Ok, so here is what I have seen.

In Cyprus at least a couple monasteries/churches sold copies with a metallic covering of Da vinci's Last Supper. Beside Da Vinci not being an Orthodox, the painting itself has Mary Magdalene instead of the disciple to His right. This would also express the Gospel he believed in which is not compatible with the Orthodox faith.

Then, many churches have invited Santa Claus in and outside the church building in the form of sculptures and images on Christmas tree ornaments such as the Russian orthodox church in our city that has a Christmas tree right inside the church and almost right in front of the big icon of the crucified Christ.

And also, in the same Russian church there is an "icon" of the transfiguration, but it is not an orthodox icon, but a copy of a crop of the Vatican painting of the transfiguration made by Raphael.

So what is happening here, why can they not use even a little discernment to see these things do not belong in the Church?

Also, I am surprised that there is no (until perhaps very recently) Orthodox English translation of the complete Bible, but the churches/monasteries sell/give protestant and even Catholic translations. How is this?

« Last Edit: January 16, 2012, 11:07:48 PM by jaroslavkourakin » Logged
witega
Is it enough now, to tell you you matter?
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Diocese of the South
Posts: 1,614


« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2012, 11:33:46 PM »

Beside Da Vinci not being an Orthodox, the painting itself has Mary Magdalene instead of the disciple to His right.

That is St. John the Evangelist to the right of Christ in Da Vinci's painting. (Yes, he does look very feminine but the depiction of St. John as a 'beardless youth' during the time of Christ's ministry has a long pedigree and matches the Gospel account).
Logged

Ariel Starling - New album

For it were better to suffer everything, rather than divide the Church of God. Even martyrdom for the sake of preventing division would not be less glorious than for refusing to worship idols. - St. Dionysius the Great
jaroslavkourakin
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 173



« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2012, 11:42:24 PM »

There are apparently two versions of it. The first can in no way be seen as a man,

http://freechristimages.org/images_Christ_life/The_Last_Supper_Restored_Da_Vinci.jpg

The second one might, however look at the comment for it.

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/4375873

Quote
Here's the story as told in the literature published by this parrish: Da Vinci was so afraid that the Church would destroy his "heretical" painting of the Last Supper that he dispatched a pupil to this then very remote locale to paint an exact replica, though magnified hundreds of times in fresco, and to preserve the work for all posterity. This copy remains in such pristine condition that, unlike the original, the viewer can easily identify each of the figures, including the young woman—clearly NOT a boy—seated demurely at Christ's right hand. This figure was of course Da Vinci's vision of Mary Magdalene, wife to the young, heretical rabbi Jesus of Nazareth. When one notes the considerable agitation obvious in the faces and poses of the other apostles, once realizes that their unrest is due to Mary's presence at Christ's side. In fact, the bald apostle who is literally breathing down Mary's neck with a look of outrage and muderous intent is actually concealing a knife in his right hand while gesturing past Mary to her husband with his left. She, head tilted toward the assassin, is no doubt respectfully listening to his threats against her and her husband. Also note the gaping "V"-shaped space between Mary and Christ. Could this "V" stand for Venus, and might it not also have inspired Thomas Pynchon's novel of the same name?

Nevertheless it is not Orthodox artwork. At least the first one also resembles the art style that is in the Vatican.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2012, 11:45:55 PM by jaroslavkourakin » Logged
Melodist
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: The Faith That Established The Universe
Jurisdiction: AOANA
Posts: 2,523



« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2012, 01:01:22 AM »

Concerning the Last Supper, The Davinci Code is a work of fiction, even according to the author.

Concerning the use of items and customs that are not typically used in traditionally Orthodox cultures, The Ark of the Covenant was made out of Egyptian Gold and the temple was built using the cedars of lebanon.
Logged

And FWIW, these are our Fathers too, you know.

Made Perfect in Weakness - Latest Post: The Son of God
jaroslavkourakin
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 173



« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2012, 02:11:07 AM »

Concerning the Last Supper, The Davinci Code is a work of fiction, even according to the author.

Concerning the use of items and customs that are not typically used in traditionally Orthodox cultures, The Ark of the Covenant was made out of Egyptian Gold and the temple was built using the cedars of lebanon.

That's a far stretch. You mention raw materials, I mention the final product and the hands that made them.

Another thing I might add, the Moscow Patriarcate here in Stockholm is renting it's 'church' (which apparently is only a local on the second floor of a building) from the Swedish church. Heretics! Who have a lesbian Bishop over entire Stockholm I might add.
Logged
Melodist
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: The Faith That Established The Universe
Jurisdiction: AOANA
Posts: 2,523



« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2012, 02:45:03 AM »

That's a far stretch. You mention raw materials, I mention the final product and the hands that made them.

You mentioned cultural expressions. The Orthodox faith is not a cultural expression.

Quote
Another thing I might add, the Moscow Patriarcate here in Stockholm is renting it's 'church' (which apparently is only a local on the second floor of a building) from the Swedish church. Heretics! Who have a lesbian Bishop over entire Stockholm I might add.

Whose signature is on the antimension and who do they commemorate during the liturgy?
Logged

And FWIW, these are our Fathers too, you know.

Made Perfect in Weakness - Latest Post: The Son of God
Ansgar
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: More than an inquirer, less than a catechumen
Jurisdiction: Exarchate of orthodox churches of russian tradition in western Europe
Posts: 2,988


Keep your mind in hell and do not despair


« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2012, 03:02:42 AM »

Concerning the Last Supper, The Davinci Code is a work of fiction, even according to the author.

Concerning the use of items and customs that are not typically used in traditionally Orthodox cultures, The Ark of the Covenant was made out of Egyptian Gold and the temple was built using the cedars of lebanon.

That's a far stretch. You mention raw materials, I mention the final product and the hands that made them.

Another thing I might add, the Moscow Patriarcate here in Stockholm is renting it's 'church' (which apparently is only a local on the second floor of a building) from the Swedish church. Heretics! Who have a lesbian Bishop over entire Stockholm I might add.

Renting churches is actually very common in Europe for those who are not been able to buy or built their own church.
Logged

Do not be cast down over the struggle - the Lord loves a brave warrior. The Lord loves the soul that is valiant.

-St Silouan the athonite
jaroslavkourakin
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 173



« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2012, 03:03:51 AM »


You mentioned cultural expressions. The Orthodox faith is not a cultural expression.

I'm pretty sure that it is. The culture of the Orthodox Church is another revelation.

Quote
Whose signature is on the antimension and who do they commemorate during the liturgy?

I don't think there is anything wrong there. But I think renting from heretics is worse than from infidels. I don't even see why this should be necessary.

"But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema."

"Look to yourselves, that you lose not the things which you have wrought: but that you may receive a full reward. Whosoever revolteth, and continueth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that continueth in the doctrine, the same hath both the Father and the Son. If any man come to you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into the house nor say to him, God speed you. For he that saith unto him, God speed you, communicateth with his wicked works."

Another terrible thing. The Ayia Kyriaki Church in Paphos has been donated to the heretics! What is happening?!

I'm even using the Douay Rheims for the citation of these verses because I do find not an adequate Orthodox Bible online.

This one is missing 2 John!
http://www.orthodoxanswers.org/eob/download/EOBNT062011e.pdf
« Last Edit: January 17, 2012, 03:04:56 AM by jaroslavkourakin » Logged
Justin Kissel
Formerly Asteriktos
Protospatharios
****************
Offline Offline

Posts: 30,094


Goodbye for now, my friend


« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2012, 03:31:11 AM »

I'm a KJV-Mostly Smiley
Logged

Paradosis ≠ Asteriktos ≠ Justin
mike
Stratopedarches
**************
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,467


WWW
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2012, 04:42:26 AM »

I'm pretty sure that it is. The culture of the Orthodox Church is another revelation.

Just WOW.

Quote
I don't think there is anything wrong there. But I think renting from heretics is worse than from infidels. I don't even see why this should be necessary.

Even Apostles prayed in synagogues. It's a rather old small t-radition.
Logged

Byzantinism
no longer posting here
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 32,659


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2012, 09:25:02 AM »

Ok, so here is what I have seen.

In Cyprus at least a couple monasteries/churches sold copies with a metallic covering of Da vinci's Last Supper. Beside Da Vinci not being an Orthodox, the painting itself has Mary Magdalene instead of the disciple to His right. This would also express the Gospel he believed in which is not compatible with the Orthodox faith.

Then, many churches have invited Santa Claus in and outside the church building in the form of sculptures and images on Christmas tree ornaments such as the Russian orthodox church in our city that has a Christmas tree right inside the church and almost right in front of the big icon of the crucified Christ.

And also, in the same Russian church there is an "icon" of the transfiguration, but it is not an orthodox icon, but a copy of a crop of the Vatican painting of the transfiguration made by Raphael.

So what is happening here, why can they not use even a little discernment to see these things do not belong in the Church?
Why do they not belong in the Church? And according to whose opinion? Is there some absolute law stating this?

Also, I am surprised that there is no (until perhaps very recently) Orthodox English translation of the complete Bible, but the churches/monasteries sell/give protestant and even Catholic translations. How is this?
Why is this Orthodox "purity" so important to you? Reading your posts, one would think there's nothing good outside the Orthodox Church, and that even within the Church one must do everything exactly the correct way or one is not Orthodox. I suggest that this line of thinking may be quite dangerous.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2012, 09:25:28 AM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
KBN1
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: EO
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 888



« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2012, 11:57:54 AM »

Concerning the Last Supper, The Davinci Code is a work of fiction, even according to the author.

Concerning the use of items and customs that are not typically used in traditionally Orthodox cultures, The Ark of the Covenant was made out of Egyptian Gold and the temple was built using the cedars of lebanon.

That's a far stretch. You mention raw materials, I mention the final product and the hands that made them.

Another thing I might add, the Moscow Patriarcate here in Stockholm is renting it's 'church' (which apparently is only a local on the second floor of a building) from the Swedish church. Heretics! Who have a lesbian Bishop over entire Stockholm I might add.

So you are saying that the Orthodox Church has contact with the Swedish church?  Praise God!
Logged
JamesRottnek
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Anglican
Jurisdiction: Episcopal Diocese of Arizona
Posts: 5,121


I am Bibleman; putting 'the' back in the Ukraine


« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2012, 11:17:04 PM »

I think it may be prudent to take a step back and ask yourself "Why might I be seeing so many things I object to, in the Orthodox Church?"  and "Why might they be doing these things?"
Logged

I know a secret about a former Supreme Court Justice.  Can you guess what it is?

The greatest tragedy in the world is when a cigarette ends.

American Spirits - the eco-friendly cigarette.

Preston Robert Kinney (September 8th, 1997-August 14, 2011
Tags:
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.088 seconds with 39 queries.