OrthodoxChristianity.net
October 21, 2014, 11:24:00 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1 2 3 »  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: "Why I Hate Religion, But I Love Jesus" video + Orthodox rebuttal  (Read 5785 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
GTAsoldier
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: God knows what lives in me in place of me....
Posts: 443


GTAsoldier
« on: January 13, 2012, 11:30:18 AM »

A couple of days ago, spoken word poet Jefferson Bethke uploaded a video on youtube entitled "Why I Hate Religion, But I Love Jesus". Since then, it has gotten millions of view. He's basically attacking the entire notion of religion in itself based on the hypocrites of today (e.g. American Evangelical leaders) while still promoting Jesus claiming that he came to abolish religion. Here are the lyrics:

Quote
[Verse: Jefferson Bethke]
What if I told you Jesus came to abolish religion
What if I told you voting republican really wasn't his mission
What if I told you republican doesn't automatically mean Christian
And just because you call some people blind
Doesn't automatically give you vision
I mean if religion is so great, why has it started so many wars
Why does it build huge churches, but fails to feed the poor
Tells single moms God doesn't love them if they've ever had a divorce
But in the old testament God actually calls religious people whores
Religion might preach grace, but another thing they practice
Tend to ridicule God's people, they did it to John The Baptist
They can't fix their problems, and so they just mask it
Not realizing religions like spraying perfume on a casket
See the problem with religion, is it never gets to the core
It's just behavior modification, like a long list of chores
Like lets dress up the outside make look nice and neat
But it's funny that's what they use to do to mummies
While the corps rots underneath
Now I ain't judgin
I'm just saying quit putting on a fake look, Cause there's a problem
If people only know you're a Christian by your Facebook
I mean in every other aspect of life, you know that logic's unworthy
It's like saying you play for the Lakers just because you bought a jersey
You see this was me too, but no one seemed to be on to me
Acting like a church kid, while addicted to pornography
See on Sunday I'd go to church, but Saturday getting faded
Acting if I was simply created just to have sex and get wasted
See I spent my whole life building this facade of neatness
But now that I know Jesus, I boast in my weakness
Because if grace is [water](undefined), then the church should be an ocean
It's not a museum for good people, it's a hospital for the broken
Which means I don't have to hide my failure, I don't have to hide my sin
Because it doesn't depend on me it depends on him
See because when I was God's enemy and certainly not a fan
He looked down and said I want, that, man
Which is why Jesus hated religion, and for it he called them fools
Don't you see so much better than just following some rules
Now let me clarify, I love the church, I love the bible, and yes I believe in sin
But if Jesus came to your church would they actually let him in
See remember he was called a glutton, and a drunkard by religious men
But the son of God never supports self righteousness not now, not then
Now back to the point, one thing is vital to mention
How Jesus and religion are on opposite spectrum's
See one's the work of God, but one's a man made invention
See one is the cure, but the other's the infection
See because religion says do, Jesus says done
Religion says slave, Jesus says son
Religion puts you in bondage, while Jesus sets you free
Religion makes you blind, but Jesus makes you see
And that's why religion and Jesus are two different clans
Religion is man searching for God, Christianity is God searching for man
Which is why salvation is freely mine, and forgiveness is my own
Not based on my merits but Jesus's obedience alone
Because he took the crown of thorns, and the blood dripped down his face
He took what we all deserved, I guess that's why you call it grace
And while being murdered he yelled
"Father forgive them they know not what they do."
Because when he was dangling on that cross, he was thinking of you
And he absorbed all of your sin, and buried it in the tomb
Which is why I'm kneeling at the cross, saying come on there's room
So for religion, no I hate it, in fact I literally resent it
Because when Jesus said it is finished, I believe he meant it


And here is a rebuttal of that video made by an Orthodox priest.


What say ye?

- GTA
« Last Edit: January 13, 2012, 11:31:41 AM by GTAsoldier » Logged

God be merciful to us sinners.

Quote from: IoanC
the best way of conveying God's love to people is through your own presence and deeds.
No longer posting on this forum. Thanks to all the helpful people who inspired me. God bless.
Justin Kissel
Formerly Asteriktos
Protospatharios
****************
Offline Offline

Posts: 30,094


Goodbye for now, my friend


« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2012, 12:10:33 PM »

He seems to have never been exposed to the "true religion" that James spoke of...
Logged

Paradosis ≠ Asteriktos ≠ Justin
Jason.Wike
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,046


« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2012, 12:28:38 PM »

Rage against the strawmen, appealing to people's individualism/self centeredness and ignorance.

I'm curious where he got "Tend to ridicule God's people, they did it to John The Baptist."
« Last Edit: January 13, 2012, 12:29:21 PM by Jason.Wike » Logged
dzheremi
No longer posting here.
Warned
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Coptic
Posts: 4,383


« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2012, 12:48:42 PM »

That's odd...I seem to remember that the Muslims believe that Jesus will return to abolish Christianity, too. I take this guy's babbling just about as seriously.
Logged

Schultz
Christian. Guitarist. Zymurgist. Librarian.
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,481


Scion of the McKeesport Becks.


WWW
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2012, 12:49:01 PM »

Rage against the strawmen, appealing to people's individualism/self centeredness and ignorance.

I'm curious where he got "Tend to ridicule God's people, they did it to John The Baptist."

It calls to mind Bishop Sheen's comment that he would hate the Church if it was just like some people described it!
Logged

"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen
Volnutt
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Agnostic/Universalist
Posts: 3,107


« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2012, 12:49:45 PM »

"Religion is a neurobiological illness and Orthodox is its cure."-Fr. John Romanides

I don't see what's un-Orthodox about that poem in and of itself. I don't see him saying, "don't go to church" or anything like that. He just seems to be decrying hypocrisy and dead formalism, something we should all be against.
Logged
Schultz
Christian. Guitarist. Zymurgist. Librarian.
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,481


Scion of the McKeesport Becks.


WWW
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2012, 12:54:39 PM »

"Religion is a neurobiological illness and Orthodox is its cure."-Fr. John Romanides

I don't see what's un-Orthodox about that poem in and of itself. I don't see him saying, "don't go to church" or anything like that. He just seems to be decrying hypocrisy and dead formalism, something we should all be against.

As others have pointed out elsewhere:
Quote
Religion is man searching for God, Christianity is God searching for man

This is monergism.

Quote
Because he took the crown of thorns, and the blood dripped down his face
He took what we all deserved, I guess that's why you call it grace

This is substitutionary atonement.
Logged

"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen
biro
Excelsior
Site Supporter
Warned
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox
Posts: 14,020


Και κλήρονομον δείξον με, ζωής της αιωνίου

fleem
WWW
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2012, 12:56:47 PM »

"Religion is a neurobiological illness and Orthodox is its cure."-Fr. John Romanides

I don't see what's un-Orthodox about that poem in and of itself. I don't see him saying, "don't go to church" or anything like that. He just seems to be decrying hypocrisy and dead formalism, something we should all be against.

Except that's not what the word 'religion' means, in my dictionary. You can't play with the definition of a word just because you don't like it.
Logged

Charlie Rose: If you could change one thing about the world, what would it be?

Fran Lebowitz: Everything. There is not one thing with which I am satisfied.

http://spcasuncoast.org/
Justin Kissel
Formerly Asteriktos
Protospatharios
****************
Offline Offline

Posts: 30,094


Goodbye for now, my friend


« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2012, 12:58:44 PM »

I don't see what's un-Orthodox about that poem in and of itself.

I would assume that some of that stuff he mentions he'd associate with things like formal/liturgical worship and prayers (instead of it being supposedly spontaneous), having a hierarchy of clergy, etc. I could be wrong though.  What I guess really gets me is this redefinition of religion. I realise words sometimes change meaning over time. I'm fine with that. In this particular case I don't like where it's headed, nor the reasons behind it. As I said on the other thread, when Orthodox speak against religion I understand their point, and don't disagree. However, this is not always the case. Religion is a good thing. That there happens to be a lot of bad religion around doesn't mean we need to throw the baby out with the bath water.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2012, 12:59:23 PM by Asteriktos » Logged

Paradosis ≠ Asteriktos ≠ Justin
biro
Excelsior
Site Supporter
Warned
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox
Posts: 14,020


Και κλήρονομον δείξον με, ζωής της αιωνίου

fleem
WWW
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2012, 01:02:31 PM »

I don't see what's un-Orthodox about that poem in and of itself.

I would assume that some of that stuff he mentions he'd associate with things like formal/liturgical worship and prayers (instead of it being supposedly spontaneous), having a hierarchy of clergy, etc. I could be wrong though.  What I guess really gets me is this redefinition of religion. I realise words sometimes change meaning over time. I'm fine with that. In this particular case I don't like where it's headed, nor the reasons behind it. As I said on the other thread, when Orthodox speak against religion I understand their point, and don't disagree. However, this is not always the case. Religion is a good thing. That there happens to be a lot of bad religion around doesn't mean we need to throw the baby out with the bath water.

Dingdingding! Winner.   Smiley
Logged

Charlie Rose: If you could change one thing about the world, what would it be?

Fran Lebowitz: Everything. There is not one thing with which I am satisfied.

http://spcasuncoast.org/
dzheremi
No longer posting here.
Warned
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Coptic
Posts: 4,383


« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2012, 01:03:20 PM »

Com'on, everybody...it is more fuel for the "spiritual, not religious" crowd to annoy the rest of us and paint us all with the same broad brush just because their ex-pastors are real people just as our priests are (and just as everyone is). I for one am pretty sick of this anti-hypocrisy hunt that doesn't lead to increased humility on the part of those writing the poems, making the Youtube videos, etc. Humility and the obedience that perfects it are great (and difficult to obtain!) virtues, but I don't see them praised here, but rather derided. That is sick.

What if I told you, Mr. Bethke, that Christ's example is one of the utmost humility and servitude that you have sadly equated with slavery? We are glad to be slaves of Christ and sons of God. It is much preferred to being slaves to our selves.
Logged

Volnutt
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Agnostic/Universalist
Posts: 3,107


« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2012, 01:03:50 PM »

This is monergism.
Not necessarily. No one can come to God unless they are first called. God draws us and we can accept or reject Him by our free will.

Besides, is not Christianity revealed to us from on high?

Quote
This is substitutionary atonement.
St. Gregory of Nyssa says that Christ was a ransom to death itself. He died so we don't have to.



I'm not disputing that the guy is some kind of Protestant but the poem in its basic message is fine. People need to quit nitpicking so much.
Logged
Volnutt
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Agnostic/Universalist
Posts: 3,107


« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2012, 01:09:03 PM »

I don't see what's un-Orthodox about that poem in and of itself.

I would assume that some of that stuff he mentions he'd associate with things like formal/liturgical worship and prayers (instead of it being supposedly spontaneous), having a hierarchy of clergy, etc. I could be wrong though.  What I guess really gets me is this redefinition of religion. I realise words sometimes change meaning over time. I'm fine with that. In this particular case I don't like where it's headed, nor the reasons behind it. As I said on the other thread, when Orthodox speak against religion I understand their point, and don't disagree. However, this is not always the case. Religion is a good thing. That there happens to be a lot of bad religion around doesn't mean we need to throw the baby out with the bath water.
I don't see a difference between Bethke's definition of religion and that employed by Orthodox who speak against it. Yes, it isn't the dictionary definition of the word, but like it or not it's a commonly accepted rhetorical usage.

He would probably decry liturgy, etc. yes. But his words don't explicitly include that and still have a lot of truth in them besides, which is why I said, "as it is." Sticking too strictly to authorial intent can be damaging.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2012, 01:09:25 PM by Volnutt » Logged
dzheremi
No longer posting here.
Warned
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Coptic
Posts: 4,383


« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2012, 01:38:05 PM »

People need to quit nitpicking so much.

Anything can seem fine if you look at it from far enough away. This is not a good strategy.
Logged

Justin Kissel
Formerly Asteriktos
Protospatharios
****************
Offline Offline

Posts: 30,094


Goodbye for now, my friend


« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2012, 01:41:28 PM »

People need to quit nitpicking so much.

Nits need picked! Is being Orthodoxical way! For example, the Orthodox church was willing to endure 55+ years of division and turmoil over an iota... Wink
« Last Edit: January 13, 2012, 01:41:51 PM by Asteriktos » Logged

Paradosis ≠ Asteriktos ≠ Justin
Volnutt
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Agnostic/Universalist
Posts: 3,107


« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2012, 01:46:20 PM »

*sigh* whatever you say.
Logged
Justin Kissel
Formerly Asteriktos
Protospatharios
****************
Offline Offline

Posts: 30,094


Goodbye for now, my friend


« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2012, 01:52:35 PM »

*sigh* whatever you say.

I think Chesterton nailed it when he said in Orthodoxy:

Quote
This is the thrilling romance of Orthodoxy. People have fallen into a foolish habit of speaking of orthodoxy as something heavy, humdrum, and safe. There never was anything so perilous or so exciting as orthodoxy. It was sanity: and to be sane is more dramatic than to be mad. It was the equilibrium of a man behind madly rushing horses, seeming to stoop this way and to sway that, yet in every attitude having the grace of statuary and the accuracy of arithmetic. The Church in its early days went fierce and fast with any warhorse; yet it is utterly unhistoric to say that she merely went mad along one idea, like a vulgar fanaticism. She swerved to left and right, so exactly as to avoid enormous obstacles. She left on one hand the huge bulk of Arianism, buttressed by all the worldly powers to make Christianity too worldly. The next instant she was swerving to avoid an orientalism, which would have made it too unworldly. The orthodox Church never took the tame course or accepted the conventions; the orthodox Church was never respectable.

It would have been easier to have accepted the earthly power of the Arians. It would have been easy, in the Calvinistic seventeenth century, to fall into the bottomless pit of predestination. It is easy to be a madman: it is easy to be a heretic. It is always easy to let the age have its head; the difficult thing is to keep one's own. It is always easy to be a modernist; as it is easy to be a snob. To have fallen into any of those open traps of error and exaggeration which fashion after fashion and sect after sect set along the historic path of Christendom—that would indeed have been simple. It is always simple to fall; there are an infinity of angles at which one falls, only one at which one stands. To have fallen into any one of the fads from Gnosticism to Christian Science would indeed have been obvious and tame. But to have avoided them all has been one whirling adventure; and in my vision the heavenly chariot flies thundering through the ages, the dull heresies sprawling and prostrate, the wild truth reeling but erect.
Logged

Paradosis ≠ Asteriktos ≠ Justin
Golgotha
Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 95



« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2012, 01:56:36 PM »

It almost looks like he is trying to reinvent the wheel.

He could have used many other more appropriate words. Hypocrisy would have been better. If he is a poet he should be fully aware of his word choices. He is creating a paradox for himself. He is practicing what he is speaking against whether he admits it or not.

It's easy for Western culture to bash religion. I think it is increasing. It's sad some religious people are now doing the same. Sad
« Last Edit: January 13, 2012, 01:57:57 PM by Golgotha » Logged
serb1389
Lord, remember me when you come into your Kingdom!
Global Moderator
Merarches
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Metropolis of San Francisco
Posts: 8,400


Michał Kalina's biggest fan

FrNPantic
WWW
« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2012, 02:11:12 PM »

*sigh* whatever you say.

I think Chesterton nailed it when he said in Orthodoxy:

Quote
This is the thrilling romance of Orthodoxy. People have fallen into a foolish habit of speaking of orthodoxy as something heavy, humdrum, and safe. There never was anything so perilous or so exciting as orthodoxy. It was sanity: and to be sane is more dramatic than to be mad. It was the equilibrium of a man behind madly rushing horses, seeming to stoop this way and to sway that, yet in every attitude having the grace of statuary and the accuracy of arithmetic. The Church in its early days went fierce and fast with any warhorse; yet it is utterly unhistoric to say that she merely went mad along one idea, like a vulgar fanaticism. She swerved to left and right, so exactly as to avoid enormous obstacles. She left on one hand the huge bulk of Arianism, buttressed by all the worldly powers to make Christianity too worldly. The next instant she was swerving to avoid an orientalism, which would have made it too unworldly. The orthodox Church never took the tame course or accepted the conventions; the orthodox Church was never respectable.

It would have been easier to have accepted the earthly power of the Arians. It would have been easy, in the Calvinistic seventeenth century, to fall into the bottomless pit of predestination. It is easy to be a madman: it is easy to be a heretic. It is always easy to let the age have its head; the difficult thing is to keep one's own. It is always easy to be a modernist; as it is easy to be a snob. To have fallen into any of those open traps of error and exaggeration which fashion after fashion and sect after sect set along the historic path of Christendom—that would indeed have been simple. It is always simple to fall; there are an infinity of angles at which one falls, only one at which one stands. To have fallen into any one of the fads from Gnosticism to Christian Science would indeed have been obvious and tame. But to have avoided them all has been one whirling adventure; and in my vision the heavenly chariot flies thundering through the ages, the dull heresies sprawling and prostrate, the wild truth reeling but erect.

  SOURCE PLEASE!! 
Logged

I got nothing.
I forgot the maps
March 27th and May 30th 2010 were my Ordination dates, please forgive everything before that
Adela
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Posts: 746



« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2012, 02:14:18 PM »

This is definately a "hot new trend".  Here in Florida I drive by alot of nondenominational churches (with names like Impact Church or Reality Church) who have recently started putting a variation of this on their church signs.  "Love Jeus but hate Religion?", "Tired of  Religion?" "More Jesus, Less Religion!", etc....  Some people I know have started randomly bringing this up, about how they aren't into religion, or have a friend who is a good Christian but has a problem with religion, etc.

It seems they have to keep reinventing because the pep-rally style of worship can't continue to pep you up forever. Sooner or later it's going to get old.
Logged
Justin Kissel
Formerly Asteriktos
Protospatharios
****************
Offline Offline

Posts: 30,094


Goodbye for now, my friend


« Reply #20 on: January 13, 2012, 02:19:03 PM »

I think Chesterton nailed it when he said in Orthodoxy:

  SOURCE PLEASE!! 

I thought I gave the source... the book Orthodoxy Wink But if you want an online source, there are several, such as this one.
Logged

Paradosis ≠ Asteriktos ≠ Justin
Schultz
Christian. Guitarist. Zymurgist. Librarian.
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,481


Scion of the McKeesport Becks.


WWW
« Reply #21 on: January 13, 2012, 02:25:51 PM »

This is monergism.
Not necessarily. No one can come to God unless they are first called. God draws us and we can accept or reject Him by our free will.

Besides, is not Christianity revealed to us from on high?

But according to this guy, accepting the call is "religion".  

Quote
Quote
This is substitutionary atonement.
St. Gregory of Nyssa says that Christ was a ransom to death itself. He died so we don't have to.

One Father's opinion does not a dogma make.



Quote
I'm not disputing that the guy is some kind of Protestant but the poem in its basic message is fine. People need to quit nitpicking so much.

homoiousian v. homoousian
« Last Edit: January 13, 2012, 02:26:06 PM by Schultz » Logged

"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Warned
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,960



« Reply #22 on: January 13, 2012, 02:43:12 PM »

"Religion is a neurobiological illness and Orthodox is its cure."-Fr. John Romanides

I don't see what's un-Orthodox about that poem in and of itself. I don't see him saying, "don't go to church" or anything like that. He just seems to be decrying hypocrisy and dead formalism, something we should all be against.
Does he see anything beyond hyposcrisy and dead formalism in the Church?
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
Volnutt
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Agnostic/Universalist
Posts: 3,107


« Reply #23 on: January 13, 2012, 03:17:54 PM »

"Religion is a neurobiological illness and Orthodox is its cure."-Fr. John Romanides

I don't see what's un-Orthodox about that poem in and of itself. I don't see him saying, "don't go to church" or anything like that. He just seems to be decrying hypocrisy and dead formalism, something we should all be against.
Does he see anything beyond hyposcrisy and dead formalism in the Church?
No idea.

All I'm saying is that his message at its core is a good one.
Logged
Volnutt
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Agnostic/Universalist
Posts: 3,107


« Reply #24 on: January 13, 2012, 03:21:12 PM »



But according to this guy, accepting the call is "religion".  
How do you know?

Quote

One Father's opinion does not a dogma make.
So you deny that Christ gave His life a ransom for many? To whom was this ransom paid? Why did it have to paid?


Quote
homoiousian v. homoousian
You know as well as I do that that controversy was about more than one letter, the concepts behind them are very complex and very different.
Logged
primuspilus
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian Orthodox Archdiocese of North America - Western Rite Orthodox
Posts: 6,478


Inserting personal quote here.


WWW
« Reply #25 on: January 13, 2012, 03:59:32 PM »

Fr. Damick really give a fantastic refutation to this individual.

http://roadsfromemmaus.org/2012/01/12/why-i-love-true-religion-because-i-love-jesus/

Quote
The above video by Jefferson Bethke has been making the rounds lately via various bits of social media. A few people have sent it to me to ask what I think. This touches on a lot of themes that I’ve written on before, and while it doesn’t particularly make any new theological claims—it’s really just a sort of standard, monergistic, anti-ecclesial, sentimentalist Evangelical Protestantism—for whatever reason (perhaps the emotionally moving music in the background), it seems to be getting some attention

PP
Logged

"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"
Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker
Justin Kissel
Formerly Asteriktos
Protospatharios
****************
Offline Offline

Posts: 30,094


Goodbye for now, my friend


« Reply #26 on: January 13, 2012, 05:45:11 PM »

EDIT--Post edited because it was too confrontational, which wasn't my intent, but that's how it sounded...
« Last Edit: January 13, 2012, 05:55:29 PM by Asteriktos » Logged

Paradosis ≠ Asteriktos ≠ Justin
primuspilus
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian Orthodox Archdiocese of North America - Western Rite Orthodox
Posts: 6,478


Inserting personal quote here.


WWW
« Reply #27 on: January 13, 2012, 05:47:28 PM »

Quote
So you deny that Christ gave His life a ransom for many? To whom was this ransom paid? Why did it have to paid?
We do not believe in substitutionary atonement, if that is what you're referring to.

PP
Logged

"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"
Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker
Iconodule
Uranopolitan
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA (Diocese of Eastern Pennsylvania)
Posts: 7,019


"My god is greater."


« Reply #28 on: January 13, 2012, 06:13:57 PM »

Nevermind
« Last Edit: January 13, 2012, 06:14:46 PM by Iconodule » Logged

"A riddle or the cricket's cry
Is to doubt a fit reply." - William Blake
Iconodule
Uranopolitan
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA (Diocese of Eastern Pennsylvania)
Posts: 7,019


"My god is greater."


« Reply #29 on: January 13, 2012, 06:16:00 PM »

"Religion is a neurobiological illness and Orthodox is its cure."-Fr. John Romanides

I don't see what's un-Orthodox about that poem in and of itself. I don't see him saying, "don't go to church" or anything like that. He just seems to be decrying hypocrisy and dead formalism, something we should all be against.
Does he see anything beyond hyposcrisy and dead formalism in the Church?
No idea.

All I'm saying is that his message at its core is a good one.

Fr. John Romanides "religion is a sickness" schtick is a lame gimmick which at its core doesn't say anything that wasn't said more clearly or better before.
Logged

"A riddle or the cricket's cry
Is to doubt a fit reply." - William Blake
Volnutt
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Agnostic/Universalist
Posts: 3,107


« Reply #30 on: January 13, 2012, 06:16:28 PM »

Quote
So you deny that Christ gave His life a ransom for many? To whom was this ransom paid? Why did it have to paid?
We do not believe in substitutionary atonement, if that is what you're referring to.

PP
No, I mean that saying that Jesus took some kind of death that we deserved is not necessarily the same thing as Penal Substitution.
Logged
primuspilus
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian Orthodox Archdiocese of North America - Western Rite Orthodox
Posts: 6,478


Inserting personal quote here.


WWW
« Reply #31 on: January 13, 2012, 06:18:13 PM »

Quote
So you deny that Christ gave His life a ransom for many? To whom was this ransom paid? Why did it have to paid?
We do not believe in substitutionary atonement, if that is what you're referring to.

PP
No, I mean that saying that Jesus took some kind of death that we deserved is not necessarily the same thing as Penal Substitution.
Ah, sorry I misunderstood.

PP
Logged

"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"
Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker
Volnutt
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Agnostic/Universalist
Posts: 3,107


« Reply #32 on: January 13, 2012, 06:36:04 PM »

S'ok
Logged
primuspilus
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian Orthodox Archdiocese of North America - Western Rite Orthodox
Posts: 6,478


Inserting personal quote here.


WWW
« Reply #33 on: January 13, 2012, 06:41:28 PM »

To go back though, this guy really had not a single original thought. Also, some of them absolutely made no sense. One that hit me was how "religion builds churches, but cant feed the poor". Ummm.......what???

PP
Logged

"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"
Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker
dzheremi
No longer posting here.
Warned
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Coptic
Posts: 4,383


« Reply #34 on: January 13, 2012, 06:53:33 PM »

Don't you guys get it? Anything a "religious" person or a "religion" does that doesn't result in instantly saving the world without the saved having to do anything is bad. One of the comments on Fr. Andrew's blog reply actually chastised him for not giving away his book for free.

That's what a lot of people think about Christianity: They hate the "hypocrisy" of other people doing things because they feel that everything should be free and easy. It's what Jesus would've wanted, y'know. It's just more stupid hippies remaking Christ into a proto-Abbie Hoffman or something. Really boring, hackneyed stuff.
Logged

primuspilus
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian Orthodox Archdiocese of North America - Western Rite Orthodox
Posts: 6,478


Inserting personal quote here.


WWW
« Reply #35 on: January 13, 2012, 06:56:43 PM »

Don't you guys get it? Anything a "religious" person or a "religion" does that doesn't result in instantly saving the world without the saved having to do anything is bad. One of the comments on Fr. Andrew's blog reply actually chastised him for not giving away his book for free.

That's what a lot of people think about Christianity: They hate the "hypocrisy" of other people doing things because they feel that everything should be free and easy. It's what Jesus would've wanted, y'know. It's just more stupid hippies remaking Christ into a proto-Abbie Hoffman or something. Really boring, hackneyed stuff.
Yeah I chuckled about the free book thingy. So if Christ is a Abbie Hoffman, does that include the awesome psuedo-fro?

PP
Logged

"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"
Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker
dzheremi
No longer posting here.
Warned
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Coptic
Posts: 4,383


« Reply #36 on: January 13, 2012, 06:59:08 PM »

Well, He was Jewish... Smiley
Logged

biro
Excelsior
Site Supporter
Warned
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox
Posts: 14,020


Και κλήρονομον δείξον με, ζωής της αιωνίου

fleem
WWW
« Reply #37 on: January 13, 2012, 07:00:07 PM »

Forgive me, but ever since I saw photos of Art Garfunkel, I've been opposed to white men wearing afros.
Logged

Charlie Rose: If you could change one thing about the world, what would it be?

Fran Lebowitz: Everything. There is not one thing with which I am satisfied.

http://spcasuncoast.org/
primuspilus
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian Orthodox Archdiocese of North America - Western Rite Orthodox
Posts: 6,478


Inserting personal quote here.


WWW
« Reply #38 on: January 13, 2012, 07:03:02 PM »

Forgive me, but ever since I saw photos of Art Garfunkel, I've been opposed to white men wearing afros.
Awww, come on biro, you gotta love the sweet, powerful, happy-tree, Ross-miester:



PP
Logged

"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"
Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker
biro
Excelsior
Site Supporter
Warned
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox
Posts: 14,020


Και κλήρονομον δείξον με, ζωής της αιωνίου

fleem
WWW
« Reply #39 on: January 13, 2012, 07:07:48 PM »

Okay! The one exception. I love Bob Ross.  Grin
Logged

Charlie Rose: If you could change one thing about the world, what would it be?

Fran Lebowitz: Everything. There is not one thing with which I am satisfied.

http://spcasuncoast.org/
primuspilus
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian Orthodox Archdiocese of North America - Western Rite Orthodox
Posts: 6,478


Inserting personal quote here.


WWW
« Reply #40 on: January 13, 2012, 07:14:34 PM »

Okay! The one exception. I love Bob Ross.  Grin
Who doesn't? Well, besides William Alexander.....


PP
Logged

"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"
Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker
biro
Excelsior
Site Supporter
Warned
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox
Posts: 14,020


Και κλήρονομον δείξον με, ζωής της αιωνίου

fleem
WWW
« Reply #41 on: January 13, 2012, 07:20:01 PM »

Okay! The one exception. I love Bob Ross.  Grin
Who doesn't? Well, besides William Alexander.....


PP

Aha! I knew I was going to feel good today. You mentioned my two favorite wacky painters from PBS instructional TV. Thanks.  Wink (By the way, are those guys on DVD yet?)
Logged

Charlie Rose: If you could change one thing about the world, what would it be?

Fran Lebowitz: Everything. There is not one thing with which I am satisfied.

http://spcasuncoast.org/
Iconodule
Uranopolitan
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA (Diocese of Eastern Pennsylvania)
Posts: 7,019


"My god is greater."


« Reply #42 on: January 13, 2012, 07:21:52 PM »

Logged

"A riddle or the cricket's cry
Is to doubt a fit reply." - William Blake
biro
Excelsior
Site Supporter
Warned
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox
Posts: 14,020


Και κλήρονομον δείξον με, ζωής της αιωνίου

fleem
WWW
« Reply #43 on: January 13, 2012, 07:26:44 PM »

And Tom Baker! I may swoon from happiness.  Cheesy
Logged

Charlie Rose: If you could change one thing about the world, what would it be?

Fran Lebowitz: Everything. There is not one thing with which I am satisfied.

http://spcasuncoast.org/
primuspilus
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian Orthodox Archdiocese of North America - Western Rite Orthodox
Posts: 6,478


Inserting personal quote here.


WWW
« Reply #44 on: January 13, 2012, 07:27:42 PM »

Okay! The one exception. I love Bob Ross.  Grin
Who doesn't? Well, besides William Alexander.....


PP

Aha! I knew I was going to feel good today. You mentioned my two favorite wacky painters from PBS instructional TV. Thanks.  Wink (By the way, are those guys on DVD yet?)

Just for you buddy Smiley

Bob Ross:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001U84ZE8/ref=asc_df_B001U84ZE81859376?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=asn&creative=395093&creativeASIN=B001U84ZE8

William Alexander:
http://stores.alexanderartsupplies.com/-strse-443/DE-dsh-900-The-Alexander-Collection/Detail.bok
Logged

"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"
Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker
Tags: religion 
Pages: 1 2 3 »  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.132 seconds with 71 queries.