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Author Topic: Christianity and Buddhism  (Read 2296 times) Average Rating: 0
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NicholasMyra
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« Reply #45 on: June 10, 2012, 07:03:19 PM »

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He only permitted his suppressed humanity to experience grief in order to teach us the proper way to be sad in a manly fashion.


But if God allowed His humanity to experience grief, wouldn't He then still have understand why we grief if He created us?

Ansgar, I was just poking fun at some of the neoplatonic excesses of certain posters on the board who claim such things. Christ experienced grief in a human manner like you or I, because when he became incarnate he could be acted upon.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2012, 07:03:42 PM by NicholasMyra » Logged

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if Christ does and says x. And someone else does and says not x and you are ever in doubt, follow Christ.

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« Reply #46 on: June 10, 2012, 07:08:06 PM »

Quote
He only permitted his suppressed humanity to experience grief in order to teach us the proper way to be sad in a manly fashion.


But if God allowed His humanity to experience grief, wouldn't He then still have understand why we grief if He created us?

Ansgar, I was just poking fun at some of the neoplatonic excesses of certain posters on the board who claim such things. Christ experienced grief in a human manner like you or I, because when he became incarnate he could be acted upon.

Well thanks for making me look like a fool. I'm a dane, I'm supposed to recognize sarcasm when I see it Tongue
Though I did wonder about the "in a manly fashion thing".
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Daedelus1138
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« Reply #47 on: June 10, 2012, 07:37:11 PM »

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If anyone deserves the most profound respect and worship, it is not a deity far remove from the human condition
So the God who became man, ate, drank and slept among humans, who was tortured, crucified and killed for our sake is far removed from the human condition?

  No... and honestly the Western Christian image of the crucified Christ speaks to me alot more, since it is closer to the Bodhisattva ideal which is a kind of heroic sacrifice.   But I still see the "theology of Glory" of Christianity to be inauthentic.  We don't live in a world ruled by a divine creator that needs our praises.  We live in a profoundly ambivalent, pittiless world where love is crucified and we have to live by faith and we choose to love not because we have to in some mechanistic fashion (the universe can tolerate hatred just fine), but because its the only medicine to the human condition of suffering.  
« Last Edit: June 10, 2012, 07:38:12 PM by Daedelus1138 » Logged
orthonorm
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« Reply #48 on: June 10, 2012, 07:47:14 PM »

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If anyone deserves the most profound respect and worship, it is not a deity far remove from the human condition
So the God who became man, ate, drank and slept among humans, who was tortured, crucified and killed for our sake is far removed from the human condition?

  No... and honestly the Western Christian image of the crucified Christ speaks to me alot more, since it is closer to the Bodhisattva ideal which is a kind of heroic sacrifice.   But I still see the "theology of Glory" of Christianity to be inauthentic.  We don't live in a world ruled by a divine creator that needs our praises.  We live in a profoundly ambivalent, pittiless world where love is crucified and we have to live by faith and we choose to love not because we have to in some mechanistic fashion (the universe can tolerate hatred just fine), but because its the only medicine to the human condition of suffering.  

I'll let the in house Buddhist experts disabuse of you of your latte lamaism.

But have you read this?

Seriously, you might find it insightful:

http://www.suicidenote.info/

It is not for nothing that this interesting testament to our times by someone who then killed themselves after writing it ends with a Buddhist "story".

I am slow on the uptake but this was just brought to my attention yesterday night and I've just read the 1,800 pages or so this afternoon. And I truly think it deserves some serious thought.

Based on your posts, you might find some of the content sympathetic and perhaps challenging.

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stavros_388
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« Reply #49 on: June 10, 2012, 08:00:15 PM »

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If anyone deserves the most profound respect and worship, it is not a deity far remove from the human condition
So the God who became man, ate, drank and slept among humans, who was tortured, crucified and killed for our sake is far removed from the human condition?

  No... and honestly the Western Christian image of the crucified Christ speaks to me alot more, since it is closer to the Bodhisattva ideal which is a kind of heroic sacrifice.   But I still see the "theology of Glory" of Christianity to be inauthentic.  We don't live in a world ruled by a divine creator that needs our praises.  We live in a profoundly ambivalent, pittiless world where love is crucified and we have to live by faith and we choose to love not because we have to in some mechanistic fashion (the universe can tolerate hatred just fine), but because its the only medicine to the human condition of suffering.  

I'll let the in house Buddhist experts disabuse of you of your latte lamaism.

But have you read this?

Seriously, you might find it insightful:

http://www.suicidenote.info/

It is not for nothing that this interesting testament to our times by someone who then killed themselves after writing it ends with a Buddhist "story".

I am slow on the uptake but this was just brought to my attention yesterday night and I've just read the 1,800 pages or so this afternoon. And I truly think it deserves some serious thought.

Based on your posts, you might find some of the content sympathetic and perhaps challenging.



I gave Suicide Note a bit of my attention one afternoon, too. If nothing means anything, life is no more meaningful or valuable than death. Nihilism played out to its most bitter, meaningless end.  Cry
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stavros_388
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« Reply #50 on: June 10, 2012, 08:05:58 PM »

That said, Buddhism put into practice and fully lived out does not generally seem to create nihilists, but rather, compassionate realists. When, as with the author of Suicide Note, it is believed that "God is Dead" and there is nothing to replace Him with (like the Buddha-dhamma), then nihilism is a likely result... or so it would seem to me.
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"The kingdom of heaven is virtuous life, just as the torment of hell is passionate habits." - St. Gregory of Sinai

"Our idea of God tells us more about ourselves than about Him." - Thomas Merton
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« Reply #51 on: June 10, 2012, 08:07:58 PM »

Quote
If anyone deserves the most profound respect and worship, it is not a deity far remove from the human condition
So the God who became man, ate, drank and slept among humans, who was tortured, crucified and killed for our sake is far removed from the human condition?

  No... and honestly the Western Christian image of the crucified Christ speaks to me alot more, since it is closer to the Bodhisattva ideal which is a kind of heroic sacrifice.   But I still see the "theology of Glory" of Christianity to be inauthentic.  We don't live in a world ruled by a divine creator that needs our praises.  We live in a profoundly ambivalent, pittiless world where love is crucified and we have to live by faith and we choose to love not because we have to in some mechanistic fashion (the universe can tolerate hatred just fine), but because its the only medicine to the human condition of suffering.  

I'll let the in house Buddhist experts disabuse of you of your latte lamaism.

But have you read this?

Seriously, you might find it insightful:

http://www.suicidenote.info/

It is not for nothing that this interesting testament to our times by someone who then killed themselves after writing it ends with a Buddhist "story".

I am slow on the uptake but this was just brought to my attention yesterday night and I've just read the 1,800 pages or so this afternoon. And I truly think it deserves some serious thought.

Based on your posts, you might find some of the content sympathetic and perhaps challenging.


The fact that he lived out his nihilism to its logical end is probably the most thrilling part of that document.

I don't think that document deserves much thought, I thought parts were a little sophmoric.

Then again I am a sophmore so I can recognize this stuff more easily.
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Daedelus1138
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« Reply #52 on: June 11, 2012, 07:05:09 PM »

That said, Buddhism put into practice and fully lived out does not generally seem to create nihilists, but rather, compassionate realists. When, as with the author of Suicide Note, it is believed that "God is Dead" and there is nothing to replace Him with (like the Buddha-dhamma), then nihilism is a likely result... or so it would seem to me.

"Hatred is never overcome by hatred, but only by kindness.  This is an unchanging law.  Overcome greed with generosity, overcome lies with truth, overcome evil with good" (from the Dhammapada)  Does this really sound like nihilism to you?  Far from admonishing us to do whatever we want because nothing matters, the Buddha is setting out a way of life where things matter because we are feeling, experiencing beings.

   I think the person that commits suicide because life is meaningless is not bad, merely sick.  That is the real point of Buddhism.   It is not intellectual excercise, it is medicine for the human condition.  Surely you Orthodox are people of good will and see that the human condition has sadness and grief?  How do we deal with this?  The Buddha had answers: moral living, discipline, asceticism, kindness, compassion.  It is not an intellectual excercise, it is a way of life.  Jesus said the same things, people that obeyed his words and put them into practice were building their houses on solid rock, right?   Wisdom is not a religion, it is available to everybody that honestly seeks truth beyond cultural conditioning, fad, or prejudice.

  Buddhism indeed affirms that life is without purpose in the absolute sense.  Life just is.   However, this doesn't mean we can't choose to live purposefully.  And actually as the Taoists note, the great blessing of life is that there are no rules to it set out in stone for us, we are free to play here, as the Hindu's say, the world is a manifestation of Leela, sport or play.  The aesthetics in life, found not only in the happiness but in the sadness, create the palette upon which we create meaning for ourselves.  Having said that, the Mahayana Buddhist path offers us the Bodhisattva ideal, to live for others as the highest purpose in the relative world, but in absolute terms, self, others, and all other concepts do not apply.  Until we realize this though, living altruisticly is medicine for our condition.   Mahayana Buddhism in short offers us a noble, sacred life in place of banality and nihilism.

    I'm buddhist because I'm the teachings of the Buddha have always appealed to me, meditation is something I'm interested in, and I'm a queer person (I'm bisexual and transgender), and thus Orthodoxy is not liveable for me because I don't see the evil in loving people of whatever gender I feel drawn to.  I respect alot of Orthodoxy's teachings but I simply don't agree with its moralism or authoritarianism.  Unlike an Orthodox hierarchy's insistence on tradition being infallible, the Buddha instructed us to deeply question and analyze everything (including himself), looking for only that which leads to happiness and is borne out in our own experience as wise and true.   I do not believe in objective morality as a bunch of rules, I believe in treating other people the way I want to be treated, using skillfull means to seek the happiness of others.  People are individuals and Buddhism respects the various karmic affinities we each have.  That is why I am not Orthodox and I am a Buddhist.  There are 1000 Dharma Gates; may you enter through one.


« Last Edit: June 11, 2012, 07:20:07 PM by Daedelus1138 » Logged
akimori makoto
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« Reply #53 on: June 11, 2012, 11:54:27 PM »

Paging Iconodule.
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The Episcopallian road is easy and wide, for many go through it to find destruction. lol sorry channeling Isa.
NicholasMyra
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« Reply #54 on: June 11, 2012, 11:58:12 PM »

Time to break out my unabridged Journey to the West and find all those fun stories where the Compassionate Boddhisatva Guanyin tortures demons into converting to Buddhism and becoming her slaves.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2012, 11:58:44 PM by NicholasMyra » Logged

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if Christ does and says x. And someone else does and says not x and you are ever in doubt, follow Christ.

"You are philosophical innovators. As for me, I follow the Fathers." -Every heresiarch ever
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