Author Topic: Closer to Orthodoxy?  (Read 7210 times)

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Offline Peter J

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Re: Closer to Orthodoxy?
« Reply #45 on: January 13, 2012, 09:21:29 PM »
I didn't buy Hart's article back when I was RC

Could you say more about this?
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Offline Peter J

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Re: Closer to Orthodoxy?
« Reply #46 on: January 13, 2012, 09:26:42 PM »
Quote from: podkarpatska

The only Roman Catholics who would take the position that Orthodoxy and Protestantism are 'extremely close....' are those who would argue forcefully that outside of the Church of Rome there can be no salvation. Correct me if I am in error, but I was under the impression that this does not reflect the teaching of the Church of Rome - although many who profess to be Catholic hold to said opinion.

As far as I know, you are correct in this.

You may be right, but I'd like to see for myself. Can either of you provide back-up for "The only Roman Catholics who would take the position that Orthodoxy and Protestantism are 'extremely close....' are those who would argue forcefully that outside of the Church of Rome there can be no salvation."?
- Peter Jericho

Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: Closer to Orthodoxy?
« Reply #47 on: January 13, 2012, 11:19:03 PM »
You want to cut through the cr*p? Ignore most of the current "theologians", and spend a year keeping your eyes and ears open to a year of the Orthodox liturgical cycle - DLs, Vespers, Matins, Compline, Triodion, Pentecostarion, etc, as well as other services such as weddings, funerals, supplicatory services, akathists, ordinations, unction, etc. Immerse yourself in what is read, chanted and sung. Examine and absorb the iconography. Only then can Orthodoxy truly be compared to other denominations. It won't take long to realize the depth of difference between Orthodoxy and any other Christian denomination.

Amen, Amen, Amen.

Unless the theologian is dead, glorified, and lauded by the Church as a teacher of the faith, I greet him with the sound of one hand clapping, accompanied by crickets and the salmon of doubt.

Throwing the baby out with the bath water, I see.
No You don't see.
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Offline Cavaradossi

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Re: Closer to Orthodoxy?
« Reply #48 on: January 13, 2012, 11:48:49 PM »
You want to cut through the cr*p? Ignore most of the current "theologians", and spend a year keeping your eyes and ears open to a year of the Orthodox liturgical cycle - DLs, Vespers, Matins, Compline, Triodion, Pentecostarion, etc, as well as other services such as weddings, funerals, supplicatory services, akathists, ordinations, unction, etc. Immerse yourself in what is read, chanted and sung. Examine and absorb the iconography. Only then can Orthodoxy truly be compared to other denominations. It won't take long to realize the depth of difference between Orthodoxy and any other Christian denomination.

Amen, Amen, Amen.

Unless the theologian is dead, glorified, and lauded by the Church as a teacher of the faith, I greet him with the sound of one hand clapping, accompanied by crickets and the salmon of doubt.

Throwing the baby out with the bath water, I see.
No You don't see.
You are in no position to know whether that is true, o prideful one.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2012, 11:49:55 PM by Cavaradossi »
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Re: Closer to Orthodoxy?
« Reply #49 on: January 14, 2012, 12:58:28 PM »
You want to cut through the cr*p? Ignore most of the current "theologians", and spend a year keeping your eyes and ears open to a year of the Orthodox liturgical cycle - DLs, Vespers, Matins, Compline, Triodion, Pentecostarion, etc, as well as other services such as weddings, funerals, supplicatory services, akathists, ordinations, unction, etc. Immerse yourself in what is read, chanted and sung. Examine and absorb the iconography. Only then can Orthodoxy truly be compared to other denominations. It won't take long to realize the depth of difference between Orthodoxy and any other Christian denomination.

Amen, Amen, Amen.

Unless the theologian is dead, glorified, and lauded by the Church as a teacher of the faith, I greet him with the sound of one hand clapping, accompanied by crickets and the salmon of doubt.

Throwing the baby out with the bath water, I see.
No You don't see.
You are in no position to know whether that is true, o prideful one.
Actually in this case, he IS in position to say that if the judgment you posted of him is wrong.
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Offline Cavaradossi

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Re: Closer to Orthodoxy?
« Reply #50 on: January 14, 2012, 04:13:54 PM »
You want to cut through the cr*p? Ignore most of the current "theologians", and spend a year keeping your eyes and ears open to a year of the Orthodox liturgical cycle - DLs, Vespers, Matins, Compline, Triodion, Pentecostarion, etc, as well as other services such as weddings, funerals, supplicatory services, akathists, ordinations, unction, etc. Immerse yourself in what is read, chanted and sung. Examine and absorb the iconography. Only then can Orthodoxy truly be compared to other denominations. It won't take long to realize the depth of difference between Orthodoxy and any other Christian denomination.

Amen, Amen, Amen.

Unless the theologian is dead, glorified, and lauded by the Church as a teacher of the faith, I greet him with the sound of one hand clapping, accompanied by crickets and the salmon of doubt.

Throwing the baby out with the bath water, I see.
No You don't see.
You are in no position to know whether that is true, o prideful one.
Actually in this case, he IS in position to say that if the judgment you posted of him is wrong.
I don't think that was the meaning of the statement. If he meant that he does not throw modern theologians out of the window (regardless of their quality, hence throwing the baby out with the bathwater), then he is free to say so plainly.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2012, 04:16:59 PM by Cavaradossi »
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Offline Peter J

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Re: Closer to Orthodoxy?
« Reply #51 on: February 04, 2012, 10:23:07 AM »
Quote from: podkarpatska

The only Roman Catholics who would take the position that Orthodoxy and Protestantism are 'extremely close....' are those who would argue forcefully that outside of the Church of Rome there can be no salvation. Correct me if I am in error, but I was under the impression that this does not reflect the teaching of the Church of Rome - although many who profess to be Catholic hold to said opinion.

As far as I know, you are correct in this.

You may be right, but I'd like to see for myself. Can either of you provide back-up for "The only Roman Catholics who would take the position that Orthodoxy and Protestantism are 'extremely close....' are those who would argue forcefully that outside of the Church of Rome there can be no salvation."?

Anyone want to help biro and podkarpatska out here?
- Peter Jericho

Offline Basil 320

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Re: Closer to Orthodoxy?
« Reply #52 on: February 04, 2012, 11:19:37 AM »
I think that Roman Catholicism is closest to Eastern Orthodox Christianity because both churches accept the doctrine of the 7 Ecumenical Synods (Councils), which are the bodies that documented Christian doctrine, the matters of faith that must be accepted for salvation.  Appearances and nuanced doctrinal interpretations cannot be substituted for the church's doctrine.  Note that I only said "closest," because the Church of Rome has deviated from the purity of this doctrine.  The Anglican Church's earliest beliefs are closer to Roman Catholicism than to Orthodoxy, of course; their subsequent doctrinal interpretations, even the fact that they can revise or modify church doctrine, keeps them closer to Roman Catholicism than to Orthodoxy.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2012, 11:31:48 AM by Basil 320 »
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Re: Closer to Orthodoxy?
« Reply #53 on: February 04, 2012, 11:31:32 AM »
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Offline Peter J

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Re: Closer to Orthodoxy?
« Reply #54 on: February 04, 2012, 12:04:19 PM »
I think that Roman Catholicism is closest to Eastern Orthodox Christianity because both churches accept the doctrine of the 7 Ecumenical Synods (Councils), which are the bodies that documented Christian doctrine, the matters of faith that must be accepted for salvation.

Do you believe, then, that Anglo-Catholics don't accept the doctrines of the 7 Ecumenical Councils?
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Offline ICXCNIKA

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Re: Closer to Orthodoxy?
« Reply #55 on: February 04, 2012, 12:59:18 PM »
I think that Roman Catholicism is closest to Eastern Orthodox Christianity because both churches accept the doctrine of the 7 Ecumenical Synods (Councils), which are the bodies that documented Christian doctrine, the matters of faith that must be accepted for salvation.  Appearances and nuanced doctrinal interpretations cannot be substituted for the church's doctrine.  Note that I only said "closest," because the Church of Rome has deviated from the purity of this doctrine.  The Anglican Church's earliest beliefs are closer to Roman Catholicism than to Orthodoxy, of course; their subsequent doctrinal interpretations, even the fact that they can revise or modify church doctrine, keeps them closer to Roman Catholicism than to Orthodoxy.

Do we believe in the same 7 ecumenical councils? I was under the impression, perhaps false, that there was a disagreement on which 7 make up the ecumenical councils.

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Closer to Orthodoxy?
« Reply #56 on: February 04, 2012, 01:08:56 PM »
I think that Roman Catholicism is closest to Eastern Orthodox Christianity because both churches accept the doctrine of the 7 Ecumenical Synods (Councils), which are the bodies that documented Christian doctrine, the matters of faith that must be accepted for salvation.  Appearances and nuanced doctrinal interpretations cannot be substituted for the church's doctrine.  Note that I only said "closest," because the Church of Rome has deviated from the purity of this doctrine.  The Anglican Church's earliest beliefs are closer to Roman Catholicism than to Orthodoxy, of course; their subsequent doctrinal interpretations, even the fact that they can revise or modify church doctrine, keeps them closer to Roman Catholicism than to Orthodoxy.

Do we believe in the same 7 ecumenical councils? I was under the impression, perhaps false, that there was a disagreement on which 7 make up the ecumenical councils.
I'm not aware of any such disagreement.
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Offline ICXCNIKA

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Re: Closer to Orthodoxy?
« Reply #57 on: February 04, 2012, 01:52:28 PM »
On wiki it says that the RCC does not accept the Quinisext Council also known as the council in Trullo. Is this an issue for the Orthodox?

Offline Peter J

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Re: Closer to Orthodoxy?
« Reply #58 on: February 04, 2012, 02:31:30 PM »
Do we believe in the same 7 ecumenical councils? I was under the impression, perhaps false, that there was a disagreement on which 7 make up the ecumenical councils.

Catholics and Eastern Orthodox agree on those (although Catholics would call them "the first 7").

(Possibly you're thinking of disagreement regarding the Fourth Council of Constantinople, but that isn't one of the seven anyhow.)
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Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Closer to Orthodoxy?
« Reply #59 on: February 04, 2012, 02:38:54 PM »
On wiki it says that the RCC does not accept the Quinisext Council also known as the council in Trullo. Is this an issue for the Orthodox?
Yes.
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Offline ICXCNIKA

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Re: Closer to Orthodoxy?
« Reply #60 on: February 17, 2012, 04:53:52 PM »
Do we believe in the same 7 ecumenical councils? I was under the impression, perhaps false, that there was a disagreement on which 7 make up the ecumenical councils.

Catholics and Eastern Orthodox agree on those (although Catholics would call them "the first 7").

(Possibly you're thinking of disagreement regarding the Fourth Council of Constantinople, but that isn't one of the seven anyhow.)


Yes, that is what I was thinking about. Thanks.