OrthodoxChristianity.net
October 21, 2014, 04:03:42 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Turks Say No to Reopen Halki School  (Read 2564 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Orthodoc
Supporter & Defender Of Orthodoxy
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 2,526

Those who ignore history tend to repeat it.


« on: September 14, 2004, 05:29:12 PM »

Published by  The National Herald, September 12, 2004

Turks Say No to Reopen Halki School

 By Theodore Kalmoukos
  Special to The National Herald

BOSTON - The Theological School of Halki of the Ecumenical
Patriarchate will not open as was highly expected and despite the many
assurances given by the Turkish government to U.S. President George
Bush during his visit to Turkey last June, and to Greek Orthodox
Church leaders.

According to exclusive information acquired by The National Herald,
the Council of National Security of Turkey has decided to "freeze"
indefinitely the issue of reopening the Theological School of Halki.
The Herald has learned that the Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan
was confronted with strong opposition, even threats, by the military
generals and other high-ranking army officials-members of the Council
of National Security. It should be noted that the army continues to
play a pivotal role in the governance of Turkey despite the secular
form of government in place.

The issue of reopening the Theological School of Halki was discussed
during Bush's visit to Turkey last June during the NATO summit. Prime
Minister Erdogan had also assured Prime Minister of Greece Costas
Karamanlis during Erdogan's official visit to Athens just a few months
ago that the reopening of the school was imminent.

The Ecumenical Patriarchate has not been officially informed as yet of
the negative decision of the Turkish Council of National Security,
neither has it been reported in any other media outlet. The Turks were
afraid that a possible leak of their negative decision regarding Halki
during the official visit of the European Enlargement Commissioner
Guenther Verheugen this past week would have a negative impact on
Turkey's attempts to secure specific dates to open the process for its
accession into the European Union.

The Theological School of Halki was forced by the Turkish government
to cease operations in 1971. Its buildings have been well kept all
these 33 years and today it is operating as a Monastery of Holy
Trinity headed by its Abbot, Metropolitan Apostolos of Mochonisia.
Some three years ago the Turks even prohibited the use of the
facilities of Halki for purely social conferences, meetings and
seminars, such as those on the environment.

The "gray wolves" who attacked the Patriarchate and Ecumenical
Patriarch Bartholomaios last Sunday (see related story) are
threatening to organize more and stronger demonstrations against the
Headquarters of the Patriarchate and its Prelate, Ecumenical Patriarch
Bartholomaios. The leader of the "gray wolves" in recent statements in
their newspaper, "Yeni Char," called the Theological School of Halki a
training center of "Christian talibans."

Knowledgeable sources of the ecclesiastical and ethnic matters of the
Greek Orthodox Community of Constantinople told the Herald that "the
ultimate purpose of the Turks is to take over completely the
Theological School of Halki , as they have done for so many other
Greek Orthodox institutions of Constantinople via the Vakoufia
(Department of Religious Affairs).

It should be emphasized that the Ecumenical Patriarchate is not
legally fortified in Turkey, which means that the Patriarchate does
not have the right to have ownership nor administrative authority on
the existing institutions, even on those which are purely religious,
such as churches, cemeteries, and monasteries.

 If a specific church is not liturgized due to lack of faithful, then
the Turks take over the building, according to law number 2762, which
contradicts Article 40 of the treaty which recognizes the authority of
the Ecumenical Patriarchate on churches and religious institutions. On
the contrary, law 2762 places the churches and the institutions in a
category called "abandoned" and in this way assumes their ownership.


Despite the European orientation Turkey passed in the year 2002,
legislation numbers 4771 and 4778, which provide for the return of the
confiscated properties to their initial owners, the Vakoufia continue
their usual policy and politics of taking over Greek Orthodox
properties.
--

Orthodoc
Logged

Oh Lord, Save thy people and bless thine inheritance.
Grant victory to the Orthodox Christians over their adversaries.
And by virtue of thy Cross preserve thy habitation.
MsGuided
Pharmakolytria
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 478


St. Anastasia


« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2004, 06:34:00 PM »

As a simpleton I'd like to ask some simple questions...if the EP is not officially fortified in Turkey, where is it precisely? And where does the Patriarch abide?  And another curiosity, is the Theological School of Halki the only Orthodox school of its kind in Turkey?

Logged

"Forgive me that great love leads me to talking nonsense." Barsanuphius
Mor Ephrem
"Mor is right, you are wrong."
Section Moderator
Hoplitarches
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 17,757


The Pope Emeritus reading OCNet


WWW
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2004, 06:50:49 PM »

Oh, he's in Turkey alright.  Fortified here means "that the Patriarchate does
not have the right to have ownership nor administrative authority on
the existing institutions, even on those which are purely religious,
such as churches, cemeteries, and monasteries."  

The Patriarchate is in Istanbul (or Constantinople), at the Phanar (a very cool noun, if you ask me).    

Maybe someone else knows about other theological schools in Turkey.  I wouldn't think there are any others.
Logged

Apolytikion, Tone 1, by Antonis

An eloquent crafter of divine posts
And an inheritor of the line of the Baptist
A righteous son of India
And a new apostle to the internet
O Holy Mor Ephrem,
Intercede for us, that our forum may be saved.


Mor Ephrem > Justin Kissel
Orthodoc
Supporter & Defender Of Orthodoxy
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 2,526

Those who ignore history tend to repeat it.


« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2004, 07:03:35 PM »

[if the EP is not officially fortified in Turkey, where is it precisely? And where does the Patriarch abide? And another curiosity, is the Theological School of Halki the only Orthodox school of its kind in Turkey?]

The EP resides in a walled enclave called the Phanar which is located in a poorer section of Istanbul.  The Phanar is so controlled by the Moselms that you can't even get a toilet fixed withut the approval of the Turkish government.

Currently there are no other theological schools in Turkey.  They are outlawed.  On the election of a new EP, the cleric elected must be approved by the Turkish government before he is consecrated.  He must also, according to Turkish law, be a NATURAL BORN Turkish citizen along with the Orthodox requirement of being a celibate monk.  Currently there are less than 3000 Orthodox (mostly elderly laity) left in Turkey that are Turkish born.  Take out the requirements of being chosen from a celeibate clergy even narrows it down more.

This is why the EP constantly interferes in the administration of other Orthodox autocephalous churches and lays claim to so many areas (including the U.S.) outside of Turkey.  To build up his importance.  If he was truly a defender of Holy Orthodoxy he would see the writing on the wall and leave Turkey to set himself up on one of the Greek Islands.  The Patriarch of Antioch does not reside in Antioch.  So the EP can still be the Patriarch of Constantinople and reside outside of Istanbul.  Instead he continues to interfere in other Orthodox Patriarchates, makes outlandish claims, and hob nobs with the Vatican in his fight for his very existence.  

He was putting all his eggs in one basket by counting on the Turkish entry into the EU granting him more freedom and allowing Halki to reopen.  Ain't gonna happen.  Will be interesting to see how he reacts.  

Maybe he will proclaim Ukraine autocephallous and make himself the first Patriarch!  Who knows.

Orthodoc


Logged

Oh Lord, Save thy people and bless thine inheritance.
Grant victory to the Orthodox Christians over their adversaries.
And by virtue of thy Cross preserve thy habitation.
MsGuided
Pharmakolytria
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 478


St. Anastasia


« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2004, 07:15:58 PM »

Quote
On the election of a new EP, the cleric elected must be approved by the Turkish government before he is consecrated.  He must also, according to Turkish law, be a NATURAL BORN Turkish citizen along with the Orthodox requirement of being a celibate monk.

I've heard this before, but it still sounds strange.  I understand that "back in the day" the government and the church were complementary, but could nothing be done when you realise your goverment is NOT on your side anymore and is overrun by criminals who took over by force?  Maybe this isn't the case and I haven't read nearly enough history to know, but it seems like pretty poor planning.  Not that I'm one to criticise the whole of the EP, of course...
Logged

"Forgive me that great love leads me to talking nonsense." Barsanuphius
Fr. David
The Poster Formerly Known as "Pedro"
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA, Diocese of the South
Posts: 2,828



WWW
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2004, 07:39:56 PM »

The Patriarch of Antioch does not reside in Antioch.  So the EP can still be the Patriarch of Constantinople and reside outside of Istanbul.

I agree.  MOVE THE PATRIARCH!
Logged

Priest in the Orthodox Church in America - ordained on March 18, 2012

Oh Taste and See (my defunct blog)

From Protestant to Orthodox (my conversion story)
sdcheung
it's as if..Saint Photios and Saint Mark Ephesus, has come back
Banned
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,325


...even though Romania Falls, another will Rise...


« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2004, 07:57:00 PM »

Keep hoping the prophesies fulfills itself!

The Turks will leave, but they shall return and will come as far as
Hexamilia. In the end, they shall be driven away to Kokkina Milia. Of
the Turks, one third will be killed, another third will be baptized,
and the remaining third will go to Kokkina Milia.
(Kokkina Milia was a region which the imagination of the enslaved
Greeks placed in the depths of Asia Minor and beyond. It is there that
they hoped to push back their oppressors, i.e., where they originally
came from.)
Logged


Keep Breed Mixing, and this Maine Coon Cat will be the last of it's kind. /\
No profanities in your sig line if you're going to post in the public forum.
SamB
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 784

Crates of araq for sale! *hic*


« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2004, 09:26:45 PM »

Yes, but most Turks are a mix of ethnicities which includes the native Rum.  How many Turks really can trace ancestry back to the Asian steppes?  It is similiar to the situation of the Arabs, who in totality can only be termed culturally so if ethnicity were to be defined by origins ultimately hailing from the Arabian peninsula.

In IC XC
Samer
Logged
sdcheung
it's as if..Saint Photios and Saint Mark Ephesus, has come back
Banned
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,325


...even though Romania Falls, another will Rise...


« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2004, 11:14:12 PM »

Yes, but most Turks are a mix of ethnicities which includes the native Rum.  How many Turks really can trace ancestry back to the Asian steppes?  It is similiar to the situation of the Arabs, who in totality can only be termed culturally so if ethnicity were to be defined by origins ultimately hailing from the Arabian peninsula.

In IC XC
Samer

bah, they are brainwashed.
can't remember their own ancestry.  they still have to go back to the steppes though.  along with the Mongol looking turks.
Logged


Keep Breed Mixing, and this Maine Coon Cat will be the last of it's kind. /\
No profanities in your sig line if you're going to post in the public forum.
spartacus
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 286


OC.net


« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2004, 05:41:49 PM »

We have a turkish family in our parish. They told me there are about maybe 100K Turks who are still Orthodox...but due to persecution, many do not claim their faith publicly.

Orthdox turks are discriminated agianst when it comes to employment and are not even allowed to have Christian names on their official state documents. This is all contrary to the actual laws on the books...but what is written and what is practiced are often diiferent when it comes to law.

Seems to me like the EP should threaten to leave Turkey in protest...Perhaps threaten to become the Orthodox equivalent of the Dali Lama? Become the EP who travels the globe speaking out against the injustice brought upon the faithful by a corrupt Islamic government.
Logged
gphadraig
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 220

OC.net


« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2004, 06:11:13 PM »

One post here by 'sdcheung' leaves me feeling very uncomfortable when referring to a prophesy concerning the Turks. During the second world war the Croation fascists had a policy vis-a-vis the Orthodox Serbs, 'Kill a third, convert a third, exile a third".

The Turks are desperate to join the European Union and the United States administration has supported their aspirations, sometimes going beyond what a third power should. The Orthodox and others should lobby their democratic representatives and cite this particular 'shortcoming' of a 'free'Turkish Republic.

For myself I support the recommendation of other contributors that the Oecumenical Patriarchate leave Turkey, and once free bombard the world press and others with the factors which lead to such a step.
Logged

Age is honourable and youth noble
sdcheung
it's as if..Saint Photios and Saint Mark Ephesus, has come back
Banned
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,325


...even though Romania Falls, another will Rise...


« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2004, 09:50:03 PM »

<-- Is Oblivious to your Uncomfortibility


One post here by 'sdcheung' leaves me feeling very uncomfortable when referring to a prophesy concerning the Turks. During the second world war the Croation fascists had a policy vis-a-vis the Orthodox Serbs, 'Kill a third, convert a third, exile a third".

The Turks are desperate to join the European Union and the United States administration has supported their aspirations, sometimes going beyond what a third power should. The Orthodox and others should lobby their democratic representatives and cite this particular 'shortcoming' of a 'free'Turkish Republic.

For myself I support the recommendation of other contributors that the Oecumenical Patriarchate leave Turkey, and once free bombard the world press and others with the factors which lead to such a step.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2004, 09:51:43 PM by sdcheung » Logged


Keep Breed Mixing, and this Maine Coon Cat will be the last of it's kind. /\
No profanities in your sig line if you're going to post in the public forum.
sdcheung
it's as if..Saint Photios and Saint Mark Ephesus, has come back
Banned
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,325


...even though Romania Falls, another will Rise...


« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2004, 10:02:50 PM »

Wow, thats our 1/3

We have a turkish family in our parish. They told me there are about maybe 100K Turks who are still Orthodox...but due to persecution, many do not claim their faith publicly.

Orthdox turks are discriminated agianst when it comes to employment and are not even allowed to have Christian names on their official state documents. This is all contrary to the actual laws on the books...but what is written and what is practiced are often diiferent when it comes to law.

Seems to me like the EP should threaten to leave Turkey in protest...Perhaps threaten to become the Orthodox equivalent of the Dali Lama? Become the EP who travels the globe speaking out against the injustice brought upon the faithful by a corrupt Islamic government.
Logged


Keep Breed Mixing, and this Maine Coon Cat will be the last of it's kind. /\
No profanities in your sig line if you're going to post in the public forum.
Stavro
Warned
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Coptic Orthodox
Posts: 1,211



« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2004, 03:45:44 AM »

Yes, but most Turks are a mix of ethnicities which includes the native Rum.  How many Turks really can trace ancestry back to the Asian steppes?  It is similiar to the situation of the Arabs, who in totality can only be termed culturally so if ethnicity were to be defined by origins ultimately hailing from the Arabian peninsula.

In IC XC
Samer
Dear Samer,
can you shed light (maybe in a separate topic) about the origin of the Ottmans and the Turks as to being asian and where their Empire started ? The books that I refer too are mostly arabic books written by fanatic muslims that do not have much credibility ?
Any recommendation for good books that discusses this issue ?

As for the decision itself, it is never surprising but what is surprising is that people around the World refuse to see the truth until it is too late. It is not very much different than 8th century and Battle of Tours, the means are just different.
Logged

In that day there will be an altar to the LORD in the heart of Egypt, and a monument to the LORD at its border. (Isaiah 19:19)

" God forbid I should see the face of Judah or listen to his blasphemy" (Gerontius, Archmanidrite of the monastery of St. Melania)
sdcheung
it's as if..Saint Photios and Saint Mark Ephesus, has come back
Banned
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,325


...even though Romania Falls, another will Rise...


« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2004, 10:32:29 AM »

Try this..
http://www.ozturkler.com/

History through Turkic eyes.
Logged


Keep Breed Mixing, and this Maine Coon Cat will be the last of it's kind. /\
No profanities in your sig line if you're going to post in the public forum.
Stavro
Warned
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Coptic Orthodox
Posts: 1,211



« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2004, 11:25:32 AM »

Thank you very much, Sdcheung.
It is indeed through Turkish eyes as I went through the site pages, but in a way balanced.

Thank you again.
Stavro
Logged

In that day there will be an altar to the LORD in the heart of Egypt, and a monument to the LORD at its border. (Isaiah 19:19)

" God forbid I should see the face of Judah or listen to his blasphemy" (Gerontius, Archmanidrite of the monastery of St. Melania)
Tags: Turkish Republic persecution Islam 
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.07 seconds with 42 queries.