OrthodoxChristianity.net
November 23, 2014, 12:59:27 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2 3 »  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: America goes on an apparent gun buying spree  (Read 3608 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
primuspilus
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian Orthodox Archdiocese of North America - Western Rite Orthodox
Posts: 6,582


Inserting personal quote here.


WWW
« Reply #45 on: January 13, 2012, 06:55:05 PM »

Quote
ating in much the same way that Americans want a gun in one hand and a Twinkie in the other
Heh, not with the twinkie anymore Smiley

As for people ridiculing Christians, thats because we're Christians, which are obviously worse than Nazis (forgive the Godwin's Rule).

PP
Logged

"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"
Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker
Melodist
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: The Faith That Established The Universe
Jurisdiction: AOANA
Posts: 2,523



« Reply #46 on: January 13, 2012, 07:07:47 PM »

Fascinating in much the same way that Americans want a gun in one hand and a Twinkie in the other.

I don't want a gun in one hand and a twinkie in the other, all the cool guns require the use of both hands to properly aim and fire.
Logged

And FWIW, these are our Fathers too, you know.

Made Perfect in Weakness - Latest Post: The Son of God
Punch
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: Body of Christ
Posts: 5,708



« Reply #47 on: January 13, 2012, 07:21:53 PM »

The heck with the Twinkie.  I prefer a Glock 21SF in one hand and a Glock 20SF in the other.  The Twinkie belongs in my mouth, but that is often occupied by a cigar.
Logged

I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.
GabrieltheCelt
Hillbilly Extraordinaire
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,990


Chasin' down a Hoodoo...


« Reply #48 on: January 14, 2012, 10:42:27 AM »

America has a bizarre culture. 

 I think all cultures have their idiosyncrasies/oddities.  But what are you referring to here, Nektarios?

  The glorification of ignorance (do any first tier countries have a "debate" about teaching biology in schools?).   The whole consumer / over-consumption culture (of which owning guns merely as toys is very much a part of). 
America debates whether or not to teach biology?  A quick glance at any college catalog and one can see that you have no idea what you're talking about.  And while I agree that Western culture is way too consumeristic/materialistic and over-consumes, I'd bet anything that most people would love to be able to own guns.  Freedom not only gives us guns, guns give us freedom. 

Evolution is still debated in the US.  It isn't debated in first tier countries.
Maybe, maybe not; I don't follow the debate enough to know.  I would suspect, though, that this isn't always the case.

 
The bizarre populations of the US that voters consider a candidate who is educated and has a decent command of the standard language to be elitist isn't shared in first tier countries.
Well, there's more to the picture than how you're portraying it.  Suffice it to say that only the wealthy and well-connected person is able to run for our president.  This doesn't automatically mean "snob" or "elitist", but it's a strong candidate.  I agree that American's are bizarre, but then every culture has it's oddities; perhaps because America is such a litigious society, but you don't see our elected officials resorting to fist fights in parliament such as certain Asian and Eastern European cultures.


US culture is overly consumeristic - not Western culture: compare the percentage of two car families in Western Europe to the US, the square feet of house per person etc.  The longer I'm away from it (going on three years now), the less I miss many aspects of the American mentality.
On this we are 100% agreed.  The contradictions between what we say we are and how we actually live are legion. 

You'd be surprised that not everyone outside of the US dreams of owning a gun and moving to America.
Perhaps, but I rarely hear of many American's dreaming to move to Ukraine or Kenya or Japan.  However, on the five occasions I've visited the Immigration offices in Kansas City, it looked like "Immigrate to America" Day i.e it's always packed!  And as far as guns are concerned, I'd still wager that the vast majority of world-wide folks would love to be able to own a gun.  Something tells me that you already knew this though.        
Logged

"The Scots-Irish; Brewed in Scotland, bottled in Ireland, uncorked in America."  ~Scots-Irish saying
NightOwl
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 596



« Reply #49 on: January 16, 2012, 04:13:39 AM »

Evolution is still debated in the US.  It isn't debated in first tier countries.

That says more about the academic dishonesty of other first tier countries than about the United States. Is there any particular reason why evolution, or any other scientific theory for that matter, shouldn't be debated?? I'm glad we still have scientists and citizens in this country who actively question what they're told, even if some of them are doing it for potentially the wrong reasons.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2012, 04:16:12 AM by NightOwl » Logged
Νεκτάριος
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,437



« Reply #50 on: January 16, 2012, 06:38:09 AM »

Perhaps, but I rarely hear of many American's dreaming to move to Ukraine or Kenya or Japan.  However, on the five occasions I've visited the Immigration offices in Kansas City, it looked like "Immigrate to America" Day i.e it's always packed!  And as far as guns are concerned, I'd still wager that the vast majority of world-wide folks would love to be able to own a gun.  Something tells me that you already knew this though.

Every trip to immigration offices in China and Ukraine involved endless lines and multitudes of people.  People move around for many reasons.  I know it is hard for a Yankee to not think in the 19th century paradigm of defending the farm, but again once Dorthy gets outside of Kansas she'd be surprised that people in developed countries live quite happily without guns and the death penalty and with socialized healthcare.

 
Logged
Jason.Wike
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,046


« Reply #51 on: January 16, 2012, 12:56:17 PM »

People pretend like this is an idiosyncretisy of Americans but Irish folks, Scots, Norwegians, Russians, Frenchmen, Germans, etc "love" guns just as much. People who come from an urban culture think they're horrible, and people who are not realize they have their use.
Logged
Cognomen
Site Supporter
OC.net guru
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: Phyletism Rules, OK
Posts: 1,968


Ungrateful Biped


« Reply #52 on: January 16, 2012, 01:13:52 PM »

Evolution is still debated in the US.  It isn't debated in first tier countries.

I love the smug distinction you make.   Roll Eyes

I too find the idea of "Euro-Socialist nightmares" hilarious, but to ignore what the collective security provided by the U.S. allows (and subsequently classifying it as a non-"first tier" country) is willfully ignorant or misleading.
Logged

North American Eastern Orthodox Parish Council Delegate for the Canonization of Saints Twin Towers and Pentagon, as well as the Propagation of the Doctrine of the Assumption of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 (NAEOPCDCSTTPPDAMAFM®).
Punch
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: Body of Christ
Posts: 5,708



« Reply #53 on: January 16, 2012, 02:32:39 PM »

Evolution is still debated in the US.  It isn't debated in first tier countries.

I love the smug distinction you make.   Roll Eyes

I too find the idea of "Euro-Socialist nightmares" hilarious, but to ignore what the collective security provided by the U.S. allows (and subsequently classifying it as a non-"first tier" country) is willfully ignorant or misleading.

Or both.
Logged

I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.
mabsoota
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Coptic
Posts: 2,643


Kyrie eleison


« Reply #54 on: January 16, 2012, 04:28:19 PM »

what's a twinkie?
can u kill someone with it?
(seriously i don't know what it is, i realise i looks like i'm trying to make a joke, but not really).
and yes, lots of people in uk don't want guns. we agree with nektarios that it's a bit weird for people to buy guns in case of war.
however it's common in pakistan. when i was there, some guy accidently blew up his house as he was storing too many explosives.
no one was hurt, unusually.
Logged
genesisone
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antioch
Posts: 2,520



« Reply #55 on: January 16, 2012, 04:51:53 PM »

what's a twinkie?
can u kill someone with it?
(seriously i don't know what it is, i realise i looks like i'm trying to make a joke, but not really).
and yes, lots of people in uk don't want guns. we agree with nektarios that it's a bit weird for people to buy guns in case of war.
however it's common in pakistan. when i was there, some guy accidently blew up his house as he was storing too many explosives.
no one was hurt, unusually.
Since I said something like "a gun in one hand and a twinkie in the other", I guess I'll need to explain. I was trying to make a humourous connection between this thread and another in which Americans seemed horrified at the possibility of having no Twinkies!

It's easy to find info and pictures about them. You might want to start here.

"Death by Twinkie" is, I suppose, a possibility  Cheesy.
Logged
vamrat
Vamratoraptor
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Serbian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: New Gracanica
Posts: 7,955



« Reply #56 on: January 16, 2012, 05:15:30 PM »

what's a twinkie?
can u kill someone with it?
(seriously i don't know what it is, i realise i looks like i'm trying to make a joke, but not really).
and yes, lots of people in uk don't want guns. we agree with nektarios that it's a bit weird for people to buy guns in case of war.
however it's common in pakistan. when i was there, some guy accidently blew up his house as he was storing too many explosives.
no one was hurt, unusually.

I can think of one place in the UK people still try to get guns...primarily because they don't want to be part of the UK anymore...
Logged

Das ist des Jägers Ehrenschild, daß er beschützt und hegt sein Wild, weidmännisch jagt, wie sich’s gehört, den Schöpfer im Geschöpfe ehrt.
Νεκτάριος
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,437



« Reply #57 on: January 16, 2012, 06:01:00 PM »

People who come from an urban culture think they're horrible, and people who are not realize they have their use.

Right, but the difference is that in America a lot of rural values are emulated by urban dwellers.  That creates an odd imbalance.  On the other hand there is an obnoxious prejudice towards all things rural in some European cultures (French and Soviet / Russian come to mind). 

Evolution is still debated in the US.  It isn't debated in first tier countries.

I love the smug distinction you make.   Roll Eyes

I too find the idea of "Euro-Socialist nightmares" hilarious, but to ignore what the collective security provided by the U.S. allows (and subsequently classifying it as a non-"first tier" country) is willfully ignorant or misleading.

France and the UK developed their own nuclear deterrents.  Collective security ought not to be confused with US military engagements that were meant to sustain greater US influence around the world rather than those which were purely defensive. 

Going back to my main point: Americans ought to get outside of their bubble every now and then and see that there is such a thing as a civilized world outside of the US.  Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of aspects of American culture that I deeply miss, but it is healthy to take a step back and look at the bigger picture.   
Logged
HabteSelassie
Ises and I-ity
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church
Posts: 3,332



« Reply #58 on: January 16, 2012, 06:08:13 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!


Going back to my main point: Americans ought to get outside of their bubble every now and then and see that there is such a thing as a civilized world outside of the US.  Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of aspects of American culture that I deeply miss, but it is healthy to take a step back and look at the bigger picture.   

That is mercifully great advice, thank you for that.

It seems to me that Americans are generally way too innocently self-centered to even notice the big picture or accept that civilization exists elsewhere.  Many Americans don't even think that civilization exists outside of  their own respective neighborhood/city/state/state of mind etc etc..

stay blessed,
habte selassie
Logged

"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10
Νεκτάριος
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,437



« Reply #59 on: January 16, 2012, 06:16:23 PM »

It seems to me that Americans are generally way too innocently self-centered to even notice the big picture or accept that civilization exists elsewhere.  Many Americans don't even think that civilization exists outside of  their own respective neighborhood/city/state/state of mind etc etc..

Certainly geography plays a negative role.  In Europe you take a train just a few hours in any direction and you'll encounter a different language and culture with a relatively similar level of development as your own.  Thus it is harder to be insular.
Logged
NightOwl
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 596



« Reply #60 on: January 16, 2012, 06:18:51 PM »

Going back to my main point: Americans ought to get outside of their bubble every now and then and see that there is such a thing as a civilized world outside of the US.  Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of aspects of American culture that I deeply miss, but it is healthy to take a step back and look at the bigger picture.    

Sounds a lot like empty rhetoric to me. Knowledge of other languages and cultures is highly valued by American society, and certainly among the educated. A significant majority of American universities require at least basic proficiency in a foreign language for graduation. For graduate school you're required to have proficiency often in two or even three foreign languages.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2012, 06:19:19 PM by NightOwl » Logged
Νεκτάριος
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,437



« Reply #61 on: January 16, 2012, 06:22:16 PM »

Going back to my main point: Americans ought to get outside of their bubble every now and then and see that there is such a thing as a civilized world outside of the US.  Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of aspects of American culture that I deeply miss, but it is healthy to take a step back and look at the bigger picture.    

Sounds a lot like empty rhetoric to me. Knowledge of other languages and cultures is highly valued by American society, and certainly among the educated. A significant majority of American universities require at least basic proficiency in a foreign language for graduation. For graduate school you're required to have proficiency often in two or even three foreign languages.

Ha.  What a joke - I went to an American university.  The language requirements are an absolute joke.  Realistically in US society there is little economic incentive to learn a foreign language or be able to comfortable conduct yourself in several different cultures. 
Logged
NightOwl
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 596



« Reply #62 on: January 16, 2012, 06:23:12 PM »

Going back to my main point: Americans ought to get outside of their bubble every now and then and see that there is such a thing as a civilized world outside of the US.  Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of aspects of American culture that I deeply miss, but it is healthy to take a step back and look at the bigger picture.    

Sounds a lot like empty rhetoric to me. Knowledge of other languages and cultures is highly valued by American society, and certainly among the educated. A significant majority of American universities require at least basic proficiency in a foreign language for graduation. For graduate school you're required to have proficiency often in two or even three foreign languages.

Ha.  What a joke - I went to an American university.  The language requirements are an absolute joke.  Realistically in US society there is little economic incentive to learn a foreign language or be able to comfortable conduct yourself in several different cultures. 

Which university?
Logged
Νεκτάριος
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,437



« Reply #63 on: January 16, 2012, 06:23:56 PM »

Going back to my main point: Americans ought to get outside of their bubble every now and then and see that there is such a thing as a civilized world outside of the US.  Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of aspects of American culture that I deeply miss, but it is healthy to take a step back and look at the bigger picture.    

Sounds a lot like empty rhetoric to me. Knowledge of other languages and cultures is highly valued by American society, and certainly among the educated. A significant majority of American universities require at least basic proficiency in a foreign language for graduation. For graduate school you're required to have proficiency often in two or even three foreign languages.

Ha.  What a joke - I went to an American university.  The language requirements are an absolute joke.  Realistically in US society there is little economic incentive to learn a foreign language or be able to comfortable conduct yourself in several different cultures. 

Which university?

Arizona State
Logged
NightOwl
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 596



« Reply #64 on: January 16, 2012, 06:26:05 PM »

Going back to my main point: Americans ought to get outside of their bubble every now and then and see that there is such a thing as a civilized world outside of the US.  Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of aspects of American culture that I deeply miss, but it is healthy to take a step back and look at the bigger picture.    

Sounds a lot like empty rhetoric to me. Knowledge of other languages and cultures is highly valued by American society, and certainly among the educated. A significant majority of American universities require at least basic proficiency in a foreign language for graduation. For graduate school you're required to have proficiency often in two or even three foreign languages.

Ha.  What a joke - I went to an American university.  The language requirements are an absolute joke.  Realistically in US society there is little economic incentive to learn a foreign language or be able to comfortable conduct yourself in several different cultures. 

Which university?

Arizona State

Okay. So how exactly were the language requirements an absolute joke?
Logged
HabteSelassie
Ises and I-ity
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church
Posts: 3,332



« Reply #65 on: January 16, 2012, 06:29:31 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

It seems to me that Americans are generally way too innocently self-centered to even notice the big picture or accept that civilization exists elsewhere.  Many Americans don't even think that civilization exists outside of  their own respective neighborhood/city/state/state of mind etc etc..

Certainly geography plays a negative role.  In Europe you take a train just a few hours in any direction and you'll encounter a different language and culture with a relatively similar level of development as your own.  Thus it is harder to be insular.

I can't speak for other Americans, but here in the LA you can simply walk a few houses down in any direction and find the same thing Wink


stay blessed,
habte selassie


Logged

"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10
Νεκτάριος
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,437



« Reply #66 on: January 16, 2012, 06:31:17 PM »

Going back to my main point: Americans ought to get outside of their bubble every now and then and see that there is such a thing as a civilized world outside of the US.  Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of aspects of American culture that I deeply miss, but it is healthy to take a step back and look at the bigger picture.    

Sounds a lot like empty rhetoric to me. Knowledge of other languages and cultures is highly valued by American society, and certainly among the educated. A significant majority of American universities require at least basic proficiency in a foreign language for graduation. For graduate school you're required to have proficiency often in two or even three foreign languages.

Ha.  What a joke - I went to an American university.  The language requirements are an absolute joke.  Realistically in US society there is little economic incentive to learn a foreign language or be able to comfortable conduct yourself in several different cultures. 

Which university?

Arizona State

Okay. So how exactly were the language requirements an absolute joke?

The number of people I know who can actually communicate in a foreign language due to university courses is pretty close to zero.  Now I see this all the time.  We get new teachers at my school from the US who were Russian majors and can't even carry on the simplest of conversations in Russian.  I saw the same when I lived in China.  I often had to translate for Chinese majors despite never having taken a single university course in Chinese.    
Logged
mabsoota
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Coptic
Posts: 2,643


Kyrie eleison


« Reply #67 on: January 16, 2012, 06:31:37 PM »

 Cheesy
i am laughing now i know what a twinkie is (fat-filled cake).
but seriously, it's probably killing more people than the guns (heart disease, bowel cancer etc),
but maybe it's not permitted in lent, so hopefully people get to give their systems a rest from it.

there are a lot of good american things by the way, i celebrated thanksgiving once with some nice americans in pakistan, i really enjoyed the pumpkin pie; goes down nicely after a curry!
Logged
Νεκτάριος
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,437



« Reply #68 on: January 16, 2012, 06:34:52 PM »

there are a lot of good american things by the way, i celebrated thanksgiving once with some nice americans in pakistan, i really enjoyed the pumpkin pie; goes down nicely after a curry!

Exactly!  I love parts of real American culture such as Thanksgiving.  That's probably the holiday I miss the most here in exile  Smiley
Logged
NightOwl
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 596



« Reply #69 on: January 16, 2012, 06:37:33 PM »

The number of people I know who can actually communicate in a foreign language due to university courses is pretty close to zero.  Now I see this all the time.  We get new teachers at my school from the US who were Russian majors and can't even carry on the simplest of conversations in Russian.  I saw the same when I lived in China.  I often had to translate for Chinese majors despite never having taken a single university course in Chinese.    

If your criticisms fall on proficiency, that's not the result of multiculturalism being discouraged. It's the result of a flawed educational system which has only started to implement language programs at the age they're ideally supposed to be taught, which is before puberty. But educators have mostly come to realize this, and now languages are being taught in elementary schools at a greater rate than ever before.
Logged
Νεκτάριος
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,437



« Reply #70 on: January 16, 2012, 06:44:35 PM »

The number of people I know who can actually communicate in a foreign language due to university courses is pretty close to zero.  Now I see this all the time.  We get new teachers at my school from the US who were Russian majors and can't even carry on the simplest of conversations in Russian.  I saw the same when I lived in China.  I often had to translate for Chinese majors despite never having taken a single university course in Chinese.    

If your criticisms fall on proficiency, that's not the result of multiculturalism being discouraged. It's the result of a flawed educational system which has only started to implement language programs at the age they're ideally supposed to be taught, which is before puberty. But educators have mostly come to realize this, and now languages are being taught in elementary schools at a greater rate than ever before.

Excuses excuses.  I started learning Russian when I was 19, Chinese when I was 22 and Ukrainian when I was 24. 
Logged
NightOwl
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 596



« Reply #71 on: January 16, 2012, 06:59:34 PM »

So what? Anyone who learns a number of languages on their own initiative as an adult is going to be an exception in any society. However I should mention that I come from a typical Midwest Republican family myself and was strongly encouraged to learn languages and spend time abroad.
Logged
GiC
Resident Atheist
Site Supporter
Merarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Mathematician
Posts: 9,490



« Reply #72 on: January 16, 2012, 07:35:14 PM »

It seems to me that Americans are generally way too innocently self-centered to even notice the big picture or accept that civilization exists elsewhere.  Many Americans don't even think that civilization exists outside of  their own respective neighborhood/city/state/state of mind etc etc..

Certainly geography plays a negative role.  In Europe you take a train just a few hours in any direction and you'll encounter a different language and culture with a relatively similar level of development as your own.  Thus it is harder to be insular.

"Fog in channel, continent cut off" ...we're not the first people to have been so affected by geography. Wink

Historically American culture was begun by adventurers and malcontents, born in revolution, and defined by a seemingly endless frontier. It is only natural that it would come to differ from the cultures of the kingdoms and nation-states of Europe, even when these defining elements have become a matter of history. Then, in more recent years, our culture has been influenced by the relative position of our society in the world and has taken on characteristics common amongst the cultures of all imperial powers, be it Egypt, Rome, or the British Empire such as pride in the accomplishments of one's society and some related jingoistic excesses.

Whether these differences are beneficial will not be determined in our generation, it will be for history to judge the greatness of our empire and to rank it among the other great empires and civilizations of this world.
Logged

"The liberties of people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them." -- Patrick Henry
NightOwl
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 596



« Reply #73 on: January 16, 2012, 11:06:05 PM »

It seems to me that Americans are generally way too innocently self-centered to even notice the big picture or accept that civilization exists elsewhere.  Many Americans don't even think that civilization exists outside of  their own respective neighborhood/city/state/state of mind etc etc..

Certainly geography plays a negative role.  In Europe you take a train just a few hours in any direction and you'll encounter a different language and culture with a relatively similar level of development as your own.  Thus it is harder to be insular.

"Fog in channel, continent cut off" ...we're not the first people to have been so affected by geography. Wink

Historically American culture was begun by adventurers and malcontents, born in revolution, and defined by a seemingly endless frontier. It is only natural that it would come to differ from the cultures of the kingdoms and nation-states of Europe, even when these defining elements have become a matter of history. Then, in more recent years, our culture has been influenced by the relative position of our society in the world and has taken on characteristics common amongst the cultures of all imperial powers, be it Egypt, Rome, or the British Empire such as pride in the accomplishments of one's society and some related jingoistic excesses.

Whether these differences are beneficial will not be determined in our generation, it will be for history to judge the greatness of our empire and to rank it among the other great empires and civilizations of this world.

That's true, although there are some differences between America and previous imperial powers, in that the current U.S. favors spreading influence over land acquisition or political integration while the former powers viewed these goals as mostly synonymous. This has led to slightly different, and I would argue more favorable, perceptions of foreign nations.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2012, 11:10:32 PM by NightOwl » Logged
Punch
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: Body of Christ
Posts: 5,708



« Reply #74 on: January 16, 2012, 11:18:06 PM »

The number of people I know who can actually communicate in a foreign language due to university courses is pretty close to zero.  Now I see this all the time.  We get new teachers at my school from the US who were Russian majors and can't even carry on the simplest of conversations in Russian.  I saw the same when I lived in China.  I often had to translate for Chinese majors despite never having taken a single university course in Chinese.    

If your criticisms fall on proficiency, that's not the result of multiculturalism being discouraged. It's the result of a flawed educational system which has only started to implement language programs at the age they're ideally supposed to be taught, which is before puberty. But educators have mostly come to realize this, and now languages are being taught in elementary schools at a greater rate than ever before.

Excuses excuses.  I started learning Russian when I was 19, Chinese when I was 22 and Ukrainian when I was 24. 

I am so impressed.  And that makes you a better person how?
Logged

I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.
Νεκτάριος
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,437



« Reply #75 on: January 17, 2012, 06:33:25 AM »

It seems to me that Americans are generally way too innocently self-centered to even notice the big picture or accept that civilization exists elsewhere.  Many Americans don't even think that civilization exists outside of  their own respective neighborhood/city/state/state of mind etc etc..

Certainly geography plays a negative role.  In Europe you take a train just a few hours in any direction and you'll encounter a different language and culture with a relatively similar level of development as your own.  Thus it is harder to be insular.

"Fog in channel, continent cut off" ...we're not the first people to have been so affected by geography. Wink

Historically American culture was begun by adventurers and malcontents, born in revolution, and defined by a seemingly endless frontier. It is only natural that it would come to differ from the cultures of the kingdoms and nation-states of Europe, even when these defining elements have become a matter of history. Then, in more recent years, our culture has been influenced by the relative position of our society in the world and has taken on characteristics common amongst the cultures of all imperial powers, be it Egypt, Rome, or the British Empire such as pride in the accomplishments of one's society and some related jingoistic excesses.

Whether these differences are beneficial will not be determined in our generation, it will be for history to judge the greatness of our empire and to rank it among the other great empires and civilizations of this world.

The greatest of empire and such is really only of importance to social science and academia.  I'm personally far more interested in where my quality of life would be higher.  Granted that is highly subjective, but I personally don't value a lot of things connected to the suburban dream in America.  I'd much rather spend my salary on cultural pursuits, travel and the like rather than cars and an oversized house miles from the city center.  I enjoy walking to work, excellent public transportation, living in an apartment in the city center, shopping at farmer's market rather than a supermarket, etc.  While I see that things are slowly changing in the US (and unfortunately are in Europe as well), I think it'd be difficult to live the lifestyle I really wanted to live.  From the outside the US is a curious mix of third world religious fanaticism and ignorance mixed some of the best technology and development of the world.     
Logged
Νεκτάριος
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,437



« Reply #76 on: January 17, 2012, 06:34:55 AM »

The number of people I know who can actually communicate in a foreign language due to university courses is pretty close to zero.  Now I see this all the time.  We get new teachers at my school from the US who were Russian majors and can't even carry on the simplest of conversations in Russian.  I saw the same when I lived in China.  I often had to translate for Chinese majors despite never having taken a single university course in Chinese.    

If your criticisms fall on proficiency, that's not the result of multiculturalism being discouraged. It's the result of a flawed educational system which has only started to implement language programs at the age they're ideally supposed to be taught, which is before puberty. But educators have mostly come to realize this, and now languages are being taught in elementary schools at a greater rate than ever before.

Excuses excuses.  I started learning Russian when I was 19, Chinese when I was 22 and Ukrainian when I was 24. 

I am so impressed.  And that makes you a better person how?

In general the ability to think in a different paradigm is important.  Why be insular and parochial when you don't have to be? 
Logged
Aindriú
Faster! Funnier!
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Cynical
Jurisdiction: Vestibule of Hell
Posts: 3,918



WWW
« Reply #77 on: January 17, 2012, 09:34:18 AM »

Sigh.








That is all.
Logged


I'm going to need this.
Timon
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 1,490



« Reply #78 on: January 17, 2012, 10:18:25 AM »

Quote
I'd much rather spend my salary on cultural pursuits, travel and the like rather than cars and an oversized house miles from the city center.  I enjoy walking to work, excellent public transportation, living in an apartment in the city center, shopping at farmer's market rather than a supermarket, etc.

There are plenty of places here where you would fit in great! Asheville, North Carolina and Portland, Oregon come to mind.  There are even neighborhoods like that in larger cities like my own city of Atlanta. 

Logged

Even if we have thousands of acts of great virtue to our credit, our confidence in being heard must be based on God's mercy and His love for men. Even if we stand at the very summit of virtue, it is by mercy that we shall be saved.

— Chrysostom

BLOG
Aindriú
Faster! Funnier!
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Cynical
Jurisdiction: Vestibule of Hell
Posts: 3,918



WWW
« Reply #79 on: January 17, 2012, 03:04:10 PM »

It seems to me that Americans are generally way too innocently self-centered to even notice the big picture or accept that civilization exists elsewhere.  Many Americans don't even think that civilization exists outside of  their own respective neighborhood/city/state/state of mind etc etc..

Certainly geography plays a negative role.  In Europe you take a train just a few hours in any direction and you'll encounter a different language and culture with a relatively similar level of development as your own.  Thus it is harder to be insular.

"Fog in channel, continent cut off" ...we're not the first people to have been so affected by geography. Wink

Historically American culture was begun by adventurers and malcontents, born in revolution, and defined by a seemingly endless frontier. It is only natural that it would come to differ from the cultures of the kingdoms and nation-states of Europe, even when these defining elements have become a matter of history. Then, in more recent years, our culture has been influenced by the relative position of our society in the world and has taken on characteristics common amongst the cultures of all imperial powers, be it Egypt, Rome, or the British Empire such as pride in the accomplishments of one's society and some related jingoistic excesses.

Whether these differences are beneficial will not be determined in our generation, it will be for history to judge the greatness of our empire and to rank it among the other great empires and civilizations of this world.

The greatest of empire and such is really only of importance to social science and academia.  I'm personally far more interested in where my quality of life would be higher.  Granted that is highly subjective, but I personally don't value a lot of things connected to the suburban dream in America.  I'd much rather spend my salary on cultural pursuits, travel and the like rather than cars and an oversized house miles from the city center.  I enjoy walking to work, excellent public transportation, living in an apartment in the city center, shopping at farmer's market rather than a supermarket, etc.  While I see that things are slowly changing in the US (and unfortunately are in Europe as well), I think it'd be difficult to live the lifestyle I really wanted to live.  From the outside the US is a curious mix of third world religious fanaticism and ignorance mixed some of the best technology and development of the world.     

There is a Starbucks in nearly every city in the US so people can talk about people who are beneath them.  Wink
Logged


I'm going to need this.
GiC
Resident Atheist
Site Supporter
Merarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Mathematician
Posts: 9,490



« Reply #80 on: January 17, 2012, 05:16:01 PM »

It seems to me that Americans are generally way too innocently self-centered to even notice the big picture or accept that civilization exists elsewhere.  Many Americans don't even think that civilization exists outside of  their own respective neighborhood/city/state/state of mind etc etc..

Certainly geography plays a negative role.  In Europe you take a train just a few hours in any direction and you'll encounter a different language and culture with a relatively similar level of development as your own.  Thus it is harder to be insular.

"Fog in channel, continent cut off" ...we're not the first people to have been so affected by geography. Wink

Historically American culture was begun by adventurers and malcontents, born in revolution, and defined by a seemingly endless frontier. It is only natural that it would come to differ from the cultures of the kingdoms and nation-states of Europe, even when these defining elements have become a matter of history. Then, in more recent years, our culture has been influenced by the relative position of our society in the world and has taken on characteristics common amongst the cultures of all imperial powers, be it Egypt, Rome, or the British Empire such as pride in the accomplishments of one's society and some related jingoistic excesses.

Whether these differences are beneficial will not be determined in our generation, it will be for history to judge the greatness of our empire and to rank it among the other great empires and civilizations of this world.

The greatest of empire and such is really only of importance to social science and academia.  I'm personally far more interested in where my quality of life would be higher.  Granted that is highly subjective, but I personally don't value a lot of things connected to the suburban dream in America.  I'd much rather spend my salary on cultural pursuits, travel and the like rather than cars and an oversized house miles from the city center.  I enjoy walking to work, excellent public transportation, living in an apartment in the city center, shopping at farmer's market rather than a supermarket, etc.  While I see that things are slowly changing in the US (and unfortunately are in Europe as well), I think it'd be difficult to live the lifestyle I really wanted to live.  From the outside the US is a curious mix of third world religious fanaticism and ignorance mixed some of the best technology and development of the world.     

Quality of life, as opposed to standard of living or HDI, is rather difficult to quantify objectively, but, if you factor in risk analysis there are great benefits to global influence (not to mention the geographic advantage we enjoy, protected by two oceans). As for every day living, international risks aside, I'm glad you found somewhere you like but we would differ on what is essential to quality of life, I'd give great technological development far more weight than cultural pursuits and individual liberty more consideration than urban culture, but that's just a matter of personal preference.
Logged

"The liberties of people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them." -- Patrick Henry
biro
Excelsior
Site Supporter
Warned
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox
Posts: 14,363


fleem
WWW
« Reply #81 on: January 17, 2012, 05:18:10 PM »

Quote from: Aindriú
There is a Starbucks in nearly every city in the US so people can talk about people who are beneath them.  Wink

Or, drink coffee.
Logged

Charlie Rose: "If you could change one thing about the world, what would it be?"

Fran Lebowitz: "Everything. There is not one thing with which I am satisified."

spcasuncoast.org
vamrat
Vamratoraptor
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Serbian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: New Gracanica
Posts: 7,955



« Reply #82 on: January 17, 2012, 05:47:19 PM »

Quote from: Aindriú
There is a Starbucks in nearly every city in the US so people can talk about people who are beneath them.  Wink

Or, drink coffee.

They have coffee at Starbucks?
Logged

Das ist des Jägers Ehrenschild, daß er beschützt und hegt sein Wild, weidmännisch jagt, wie sich’s gehört, den Schöpfer im Geschöpfe ehrt.
primuspilus
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian Orthodox Archdiocese of North America - Western Rite Orthodox
Posts: 6,582


Inserting personal quote here.


WWW
« Reply #83 on: January 17, 2012, 05:54:41 PM »

Quote from: Aindriú
There is a Starbucks in nearly every city in the US so people can talk about people who are beneath them.  Wink

Or, drink coffee.

They have coffee at Starbucks?
Yeah, they serve the coffee along with smug-flavored snobbery.

PP
Logged

"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"
Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker
GabrieltheCelt
Hillbilly Extraordinaire
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,990


Chasin' down a Hoodoo...


« Reply #84 on: January 17, 2012, 06:22:37 PM »

Going back to my main point: Americans ought to get outside of their bubble every now and then and see that there is such a thing as a civilized world outside of the US.  Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of aspects of American culture that I deeply miss, but it is healthy to take a step back and look at the bigger picture.   

 On this we can agree.  But I would posit that there is a certain xenophobia prevalent in all cultures.  I know many Indonesians, Romanians, Arabs and Russians who've either immigrated to America for economic gain that wasn't available to them in their respective countries or they're here for higher education purposes (which is economic gains as well).  But economic gains aside, they all tend to think their cultures are superior to ours.  This is nothing new or indigenous to Americans.
Logged

"The Scots-Irish; Brewed in Scotland, bottled in Ireland, uncorked in America."  ~Scots-Irish saying
GabrieltheCelt
Hillbilly Extraordinaire
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,990


Chasin' down a Hoodoo...


« Reply #85 on: January 17, 2012, 06:22:43 PM »

Perhaps, but I rarely hear of many American's dreaming to move to Ukraine or Kenya or Japan.  However, on the five occasions I've visited the Immigration offices in Kansas City, it looked like "Immigrate to America" Day i.e it's always packed!  And as far as guns are concerned, I'd still wager that the vast majority of world-wide folks would love to be able to own a gun.  Something tells me that you already knew this though.

Every trip to immigration offices in China and Ukraine involved endless lines and multitudes of people.  People move around for many reasons.  I know it is hard for a Yankee to not think in the 19th century paradigm of defending the farm, but again once Dorthy gets outside of Kansas she'd be surprised that people in developed countries live quite happily without guns and the death penalty and with socialized healthcare.

 

 Sure, folks move around for all kinds of reasons.  But I'd hazard a guess that much of that movement is for economic reasons and I'd also hazard a guess that America would be their first choice.  And the 'Wizard of Oz' comment aside, people can live quite happily without lots of things; this is known as learning to be content or simply adjusting to reality.  But you know that's not what I'm saying though.  
Logged

"The Scots-Irish; Brewed in Scotland, bottled in Ireland, uncorked in America."  ~Scots-Irish saying
celticfan1888
Production Operator - Chemtrusion
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholicism
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church of America
Posts: 3,026



« Reply #86 on: January 17, 2012, 08:02:54 PM »

Quote from: Aindriú
There is a Starbucks in nearly every city in the US so people can talk about people who are beneath them.  Wink

Or, drink coffee.

They have coffee at Starbucks?

Apparently.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGkTvkpo6as
Logged

Forgive my sins.
cizinec
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 941


There ain't no way but the hard way.


« Reply #87 on: January 17, 2012, 11:56:22 PM »

Quote
The Homicide Report
THE TIMES CHRONICLES L.A. COUNTY HOMICIDE VICTIMS
Showing 624 homicides from Jan. 1, 2010 to Dec. 29, 2010

http://projects.latimes.com/homicide/map/?year=2010 (by the way you can read the names and stories behind all of these murders at this link Sad )
 
415% decrease over the past twenty years?

EVERY SINGLE DEATH IS AN ABSOLUTE TRAGEDY, AND EVERY SINGLE LIFE SAVED IS AN ABSOLUTE MIRACLE.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

What a load of crap.

A few years ago I was coming home with my family from a late-night Presanctified Gifts.  While we got out of our mini-van (go ahead and laugh) a guy in a Jeep yelled at my wife that he wanted to, as he put it, "kill you, you f-ing b****."  He hit the gas and drove at her.

Now, in your fantasmic world I would be thanking my gods, the Central Planners, for SAVING me from the HORRORS of firearms, while remembering my late wife and who knows how many of my 4 kids.

However, I don't need you or your pathetic laws to save me from myself (or from anyone else), as the Good Lord gave me enough sense to at least have had a .38 DAO revolver on my person.  He's extremely lucky I wasn't carrying my Glock.  

So, apparently, to you, EVERY SINGLE DEATH IS AN ABSOLUTE TRAGEDY, AND EVERY SINGLE LIFE SAVED IS AN ABSOLUTE MIRACLE, unless the person was saved by an armed citizen who used the skills the Good Lord gave him.  I guess you prefer folks to sit around and be all helpless and cry for your help.  

Oh, and it took the police OVER AN HOUR to get around after I had already dealt with the issue.  The police had no problems with what I did and knew who the guy was (he ran away).

And did you even *bother* to actually *read* the stories of your horrible "gun" victims (I've had firearms all my life and I've never seen one get up and bite a single person who didn't ask for it first)?

Quote
http://projects.latimes.com/homicide/post/bernardino-gomez-jr/  Investigators said Gomez appeared to have had gang-affiliations.

http://projects.latimes.com/homicide/post/gerald-smith/  Investigators said the shooting appeared to be gang-related, but added that Smith had no gang affiliation.

http://projects.latimes.com/homicide/post/alfonso-covarrubias/  Borihanh said investigators believe the shooting may have been gang-related, but police have no description of a suspect or vehicle.

http://projects.latimes.com/homicide/post/michael-douver/  The shooting is believed to be gang-related.

Now, I'm just a dumb FA guy, but that sure sounds to me like LA has a GANG problem.  Last I heard, the Jesu . . . I mean the Obama administration was selling firearms illegally to the gangs down Mexico way, so I'm pretty sure the gangs in LA are armed with illegal weapons.  If I were stupid enough to live in such an area, I sure as heck wouldn't be stupid enough to live there as unarmed as a New England Quaker on a Sunday morning buggy ride to church.

You go ahead and stay in the Los Angeles, Repulbik of Kalifornia and I won't tell you how big of a heartless boob you are for not letting innocent citizens protect themselves, and I'll live free in Texas and I don't give a tinker's dang what you say about me.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2012, 11:57:27 PM by cizinec » Logged

"Brother, your best friend ain't your Momma, it's the Field Artillery."
Aindriú
Faster! Funnier!
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Cynical
Jurisdiction: Vestibule of Hell
Posts: 3,918



WWW
« Reply #88 on: January 18, 2012, 12:03:12 AM »

Only Sith deal in absolutes. -George Lucas
Logged


I'm going to need this.
cizinec
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 941


There ain't no way but the hard way.


« Reply #89 on: January 18, 2012, 12:44:02 AM »

Only Sith deal in absolutes. -George Lucas

Well, when you meet a real live Sith Lord in the flesh, you be just as careful as can be.

Meantime, you just keep on quoting Hollywood.  One of these years they're sure to be right about something.
Logged

"Brother, your best friend ain't your Momma, it's the Field Artillery."
Tags:
Pages: « 1 2 3 »  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.175 seconds with 72 queries.