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Author Topic: America goes on an apparent gun buying spree  (Read 3552 times) Average Rating: 0
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ChristusDominus
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« on: January 11, 2012, 01:07:54 AM »

FBI performs a record number of back ground checks for firearm purchases

For their own reasons, Americans went out to buy a record number of firearms this past year of 2011. The FBI performed a record number of instant background checks on would-be firearm buyers. Furthermore, during the holiday season, there was an uptick in sales. FBI officials say gun dealers requested more than 1.5 million background checks last December. A third of those checks were requested in the last six days leading up to Christmas.


http://www.catholic.org/national/national_story.php?id=44316

other source: http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/01/05/9983727-fbi-firearm-purchases-shoot-up-in-2011
« Last Edit: January 11, 2012, 01:18:18 AM by ChristusDominus » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2012, 01:45:29 AM »

I think it has something to do with people preparing for that 2012 end of the world stuff, TBH
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ChristusDominus
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« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2012, 02:31:13 AM »

A Mayan conspiracy? I'm tellin' ya.. Roll Eyes
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« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2012, 02:51:02 AM »

A Mayan conspiracy? I'm tellin' ya.. Roll Eyes

I'm telling ya, people are nuts, I was watching a show about people building bunkers and stuff on NatGeo.
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« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2012, 10:16:31 AM »

A Mayan conspiracy? I'm tellin' ya.. Roll Eyes

I'm telling ya, people are nuts, I was watching a show about people building bunkers and stuff on NatGeo.

You should come over sometime and see mine.  It has a jacuzzi and a mini fridge right between two of the machinegun ports.  It's pretty slick!


This story makes me sad.  I've only had the money to buy one gun this year.   Cry
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« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2012, 12:07:51 PM »

I enjoy my guns.  Love going out to the shooting range.  I dont go too often though as ammo is expensive these days!

As for why the sales went up... Im not sure. It could be "end of the world" garbage or it could be theyre afraid that a certain politician may take them away.

« Last Edit: January 11, 2012, 12:09:19 PM by Timon » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2012, 05:11:36 PM »

I enjoy my guns.  Love going out to the shooting range.  I dont go too often though as ammo is expensive these days!

As for why the sales went up... Im not sure. It could be "end of the world" garbage or it could be theyre afraid that a certain politician may take them away.



Actually that may be it lol
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« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2012, 05:28:15 PM »

Im gettin one here soon. Not for the mayan crap though.

PP
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« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2012, 05:28:55 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

God Bless California, which has been brave enough to legislate strict gun-control regulations which have literally saved our state from the pitfalls of gun-violence which peaked in the early 1990s.  When I was a kid, you could find gun shops all over town, and you could buy pistols at discount department stores...

Needless to say we had a lot of gun-violence.  The  secret about guns in America is that ALL the illegal guns used by criminals are stolen from legitimate dealers, retailers, collectors, and whole-sale distributors.  In 2009 the Department of Justice revealed that over 30,000 firearms alone were reported missing by American gun sellers, AND THOSE ARE JUST WHAT IS REPORTED!! I can only imagine how many simply slipped through the cracks.

Gun ownership and access is a double-edged sword, which we must taken with the Grace of God.  It is a responsibility which we must take to heart in prayer, just as all other aspects of the freedom of free-will, no human event or circumstance is without consequences.  If we manufacture and distribute guns, inevitably those people who we don't want to have firearms will gain access.  California's model has proven that if you limit fire-arm access in general, you reduce the number of illegal guns on the street and you save lives.  It is a fallacy to say that American citizens need guns to protect themselves from armed criminals, because it is a circular argument, as the illegal guns are stolen or bought from the very same legitimate  owners and dealers.  It is a catch-22 Sad

I respect people's right to own firearms, but folks must be reasonable and not over-enthusiastic, we should remember guns are tools, but they are tools precisely designed to harm, and should be then taken with grave responsibility and all-seriousness. After all, what really is the legitimate use of a pistol in the first place? Rifles I understand, but pistols?

My testimony as a Californian is that gun-control works, folks can debate this with me all they'd like, but the reality of the crime on our streets being reduced speaks volumes for itself.  


Sorry for the politics but this issue is very personal to me, several of my friends and family have either bullet holes or even the bullets still remaining in their bodies, and several others are dead and buried in the cemetery God Rest Their Souls..

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2012, 05:37:52 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

God Bless California, which has been brave enough to legislate strict gun-control regulations which have literally saved our state from the pitfalls of gun-violence which peaked in the early 1990s.  When I was a kid, you could find gun shops all over town, and you could buy pistols at discount department stores...

Needless to say we had a lot of gun-violence.  The  secret about guns in America is that ALL the illegal guns used by criminals are stolen from legitimate dealers, retailers, collectors, and whole-sale distributors.  In 2009 the Department of Justice revealed that over 30,000 firearms alone were reported missing by American gun sellers, AND THOSE ARE JUST WHAT IS REPORTED!! I can only imagine how many simply slipped through the cracks.

Gun ownership and access is a double-edged sword, which we must taken with the Grace of God.  It is a responsibility which we must take to heart in prayer, just as all other aspects of the freedom of free-will, no human event or circumstance is without consequences.  If we manufacture and distribute guns, inevitably those people who we don't want to have firearms will gain access.  California's model has proven that if you limit fire-arm access in general, you reduce the number of illegal guns on the street and you save lives.  It is a fallacy to say that American citizens need guns to protect themselves from armed criminals, because it is a circular argument, as the illegal guns are stolen or bought from the very same legitimate  owners and dealers.  It is a catch-22 Sad

I respect people's right to own firearms, but folks must be reasonable and not over-enthusiastic, we should remember guns are tools, but they are tools precisely designed to harm, and should be then taken with grave responsibility and all-seriousness. After all, what really is the legitimate use of a pistol in the first place? Rifles I understand, but pistols?

My testimony as a Californian is that gun-control works, folks can debate this with me all they'd like, but the reality of the crime on our streets being reduced speaks volumes for itself.  


Sorry for the politics but this issue is very personal to me, several of my friends and family have either bullet holes or even the bullets still remaining in their bodies, and several others are dead and buried in the cemetery God Rest Their Souls..

stay blessed,
habte selassie
Well thank God I can still buy a gun at my local Wal-Mart and flea market.

PP
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« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2012, 05:41:31 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

God Bless California, which has been brave enough to legislate strict gun-control regulations which have literally saved our state from the pitfalls of gun-violence which peaked in the early 1990s.  When I was a kid, you could find gun shops all over town, and you could buy pistols at discount department stores...

Needless to say we had a lot of gun-violence.  The  secret about guns in America is that ALL the illegal guns used by criminals are stolen from legitimate dealers, retailers, collectors, and whole-sale distributors.  In 2009 the Department of Justice revealed that over 30,000 firearms alone were reported missing by American gun sellers, AND THOSE ARE JUST WHAT IS REPORTED!! I can only imagine how many simply slipped through the cracks.

Gun ownership and access is a double-edged sword, which we must taken with the Grace of God.  It is a responsibility which we must take to heart in prayer, just as all other aspects of the freedom of free-will, no human event or circumstance is without consequences.  If we manufacture and distribute guns, inevitably those people who we don't want to have firearms will gain access.  California's model has proven that if you limit fire-arm access in general, you reduce the number of illegal guns on the street and you save lives.  It is a fallacy to say that American citizens need guns to protect themselves from armed criminals, because it is a circular argument, as the illegal guns are stolen or bought from the very same legitimate  owners and dealers.  It is a catch-22 Sad

I respect people's right to own firearms, but folks must be reasonable and not over-enthusiastic, we should remember guns are tools, but they are tools precisely designed to harm, and should be then taken with grave responsibility and all-seriousness. After all, what really is the legitimate use of a pistol in the first place? Rifles I understand, but pistols?

My testimony as a Californian is that gun-control works, folks can debate this with me all they'd like, but the reality of the crime on our streets being reduced speaks volumes for itself.  


Sorry for the politics but this issue is very personal to me, several of my friends and family have either bullet holes or even the bullets still remaining in their bodies, and several others are dead and buried in the cemetery God Rest Their Souls..

stay blessed,
habte selassie
Well thank God I can still buy a gun at my local Wal-Mart and flea market.

PP

and I pray to God no one steals it and uses it to harm or even kill another American youth.

Please, feel free to exercise your Constitutional rights, but appeal to you as a brother in Christ, do it responsibly and like all matters in life, handle with prayer.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2012, 05:49:51 PM »

Quote
Well thank God I can still buy a gun at my local Wal-Mart and flea market.

agreed.

dont get me wrong... im certainly an anti violence guy.  i have guns, but i cant ever imagine using them on anyone for any reason. (the only possible exception would be if someone was getting ready to harm my wife or kids... but i hate to even think about that...) for me, its a hobby. theyre fun to shoot in the woods, or at a controlled shooting range.  i have friends though who are just waiting for someone to break into their homes so they can legally use a gun and rid the world of another thug.  i dont think this way.  if someone tried to steal my tv, or car, i wouldnt kill them over it. thats just silly to me, and isnt compatible with the teachings of Christ. 

im not going to try to argue with Habte's point, manily because i dont like to argue. (especially about any topic that could be remotely political) However, I do think that regardless of how strict the gun control laws are, you will always have thugs who have access to guns.  Thugs or criminals dont care about the law, so I doubt they would care about any gun control laws.  And I dont think, even with the recent fears of this, that our constitution would ever allow the government to truly get rid of all the guns.
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« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2012, 06:01:44 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

However, I do think that regardless of how strict the gun control laws are, you will always have thugs who have access to guns.  Thugs or criminals dont care about the law, so I doubt they would care about any gun control laws.  And I dont think, even with the recent fears of this, that our constitution would ever allow the government to truly get rid of all the guns.

But you misunderstand the fundamental premise behind gun control, which is to limit the over-all manufacturing and distribution of firearms by putting limits and restrictions on the market. Criminals steal their guns from the same places honest folks buy them, and that precisely is the problem and precisely what gun-control is designed to restrict, OVERALL distribution.  True, criminals will always find weapons, but that is why we as a society try our best to restrict and limit such in the first place.  If there are less guns out there, there are less guns to steal.  Again, recall that 30,000 alone are reported "missing" from honest and legitimate retailers, clearly there needs to be some more measures of control.  That is control, not necessarily elimination.  Folks are rightfully upset over the fiasco of the ATF operation Fast and Furious were just a handful of guns were intentionally released to criminals and big surprise, not only did innocent people get killed but even a federal law enforcement officer by these exact same missing firearms!! If only a relative handful of missing weapons did that much damage and loss of life, imagine what harm 30,000 could do and have done already?

 No one is suggesting no Americans shouldn't necessarily have access to fire-arms, the question is one of over-all quantity.

Again, sorry to be political, but as I said before, this is a deeply personal issue for me, my family, and my community at large.  God Bless the Souls of those departed by this plague of gun-violence,  May He guide us by His Spirit to be as responsible as we weak human beings can be.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

stay blessed,
habte selassie
« Last Edit: January 11, 2012, 06:07:18 PM by HabteSelassie » Logged

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« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2012, 06:48:08 PM »

America has a bizarre culture. 
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« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2012, 08:18:27 PM »

Guns?

Who needs guns? Need ammo....
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« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2012, 08:31:11 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

God Bless California, which has been brave enough to legislate strict gun-control regulations which have literally saved our state from the pitfalls of gun-violence which peaked in the early 1990s.  When I was a kid, you could find gun shops all over town, and you could buy pistols at discount department stores...

Needless to say we had a lot of gun-violence.  The  secret about guns in America is that ALL the illegal guns used by criminals are stolen from legitimate dealers, retailers, collectors, and whole-sale distributors.  In 2009 the Department of Justice revealed that over 30,000 firearms alone were reported missing by American gun sellers, AND THOSE ARE JUST WHAT IS REPORTED!! I can only imagine how many simply slipped through the cracks.

Gun ownership and access is a double-edged sword, which we must taken with the Grace of God.  It is a responsibility which we must take to heart in prayer, just as all other aspects of the freedom of free-will, no human event or circumstance is without consequences.  If we manufacture and distribute guns, inevitably those people who we don't want to have firearms will gain access.  California's model has proven that if you limit fire-arm access in general, you reduce the number of illegal guns on the street and you save lives.  It is a fallacy to say that American citizens need guns to protect themselves from armed criminals, because it is a circular argument, as the illegal guns are stolen or bought from the very same legitimate  owners and dealers.  It is a catch-22 Sad

I respect people's right to own firearms, but folks must be reasonable and not over-enthusiastic, we should remember guns are tools, but they are tools precisely designed to harm, and should be then taken with grave responsibility and all-seriousness. After all, what really is the legitimate use of a pistol in the first place? Rifles I understand, but pistols?

My testimony as a Californian is that gun-control works, folks can debate this with me all they'd like, but the reality of the crime on our streets being reduced speaks volumes for itself.  


Sorry for the politics but this issue is very personal to me, several of my friends and family have either bullet holes or even the bullets still remaining in their bodies, and several others are dead and buried in the cemetery God Rest Their Souls..

stay blessed,
habte selassie
Well thank God I can still buy a gun at my local Wal-Mart and flea market.

PP

It's not nearly as bad as he makes it sound in California, I've bought 3 guns over the last year and other than the annoying 10 day waiting period and some plain weird restrictions on handguns (my brother had to buy a black M1911 last year because for some reason the stainless model wasn't available in California...exact same gun and same manufacturer...go figure) it's not really that bad. Even most the restrictions on assault weapons have either expired or are easily circumvented and gun shows are still alive and well, they just need a local gun dealer to be present to rubber-stamp all the deals. I'd like fewer gun laws, but it's not exactly like we're living in England.
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« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2012, 08:46:05 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

God Bless California, which has been brave enough to legislate strict gun-control regulations which have literally saved our state from the pitfalls of gun-violence which peaked in the early 1990s.  When I was a kid, you could find gun shops all over town, and you could buy pistols at discount department stores...

Needless to say we had a lot of gun-violence.  The  secret about guns in America is that ALL the illegal guns used by criminals are stolen from legitimate dealers, retailers, collectors, and whole-sale distributors.  In 2009 the Department of Justice revealed that over 30,000 firearms alone were reported missing by American gun sellers, AND THOSE ARE JUST WHAT IS REPORTED!! I can only imagine how many simply slipped through the cracks.

Gun ownership and access is a double-edged sword, which we must taken with the Grace of God.  It is a responsibility which we must take to heart in prayer, just as all other aspects of the freedom of free-will, no human event or circumstance is without consequences.  If we manufacture and distribute guns, inevitably those people who we don't want to have firearms will gain access.  California's model has proven that if you limit fire-arm access in general, you reduce the number of illegal guns on the street and you save lives.  It is a fallacy to say that American citizens need guns to protect themselves from armed criminals, because it is a circular argument, as the illegal guns are stolen or bought from the very same legitimate  owners and dealers.  It is a catch-22 Sad

I respect people's right to own firearms, but folks must be reasonable and not over-enthusiastic, we should remember guns are tools, but they are tools precisely designed to harm, and should be then taken with grave responsibility and all-seriousness. After all, what really is the legitimate use of a pistol in the first place? Rifles I understand, but pistols?

My testimony as a Californian is that gun-control works, folks can debate this with me all they'd like, but the reality of the crime on our streets being reduced speaks volumes for itself.  


Sorry for the politics but this issue is very personal to me, several of my friends and family have either bullet holes or even the bullets still remaining in their bodies, and several others are dead and buried in the cemetery God Rest Their Souls..

stay blessed,
habte selassie
Well thank God I can still buy a gun at my local Wal-Mart and flea market.

PP

It's not nearly as bad as he makes it sound in California, I've bought 3 guns over the last year and other than the annoying 10 day waiting period and some plain weird restrictions on handguns (my brother had to buy a black M1911 last year because for some reason the stainless model wasn't available in California...exact same gun and same manufacturer...go figure) it's not really that bad. Even most the restrictions on assault weapons have either expired or are easily circumvented and gun shows are still alive and well, they just need a local gun dealer to be present to rubber-stamp all the deals. I'd like fewer gun laws, but it's not exactly like we're living in England.

I don't understand by what you mean by "makes it sound in California" because I never said anything in that quote or in any other posts other then that existing gun-control laws work, I never suggested anything about the extent or details of the laws, only reiterated that they have indeed effectively served their purpose by successfully limiting gun purchases and in correlation subsequent gun-violence.  The numbers speak for themselves..

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/0816firearms0816.html
http://www.lcav.org/states/california.asp
http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_brady_bill.

Again, I have no problems with Americans lawfully owning fire-arms, and gun-control is a matter of limiting the supply side which in turn has trickled down and consistently reduced gun-violence.  All y'all Americans who want to own guns are surely free to express your Constitutional rights, however there are appropriate laws already in effect which define the extent of these rights, and I feel they are excellent laws.

In 1992 there were over 3000 homicides in Los Angeles County alone, and in 2011 there were just over 1000.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2012, 08:54:50 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

God Bless California, which has been brave enough to legislate strict gun-control regulations which have literally saved our state from the pitfalls of gun-violence which peaked in the early 1990s.  When I was a kid, you could find gun shops all over town, and you could buy pistols at discount department stores...

Needless to say we had a lot of gun-violence.  The  secret about guns in America is that ALL the illegal guns used by criminals are stolen from legitimate dealers, retailers, collectors, and whole-sale distributors.  In 2009 the Department of Justice revealed that over 30,000 firearms alone were reported missing by American gun sellers, AND THOSE ARE JUST WHAT IS REPORTED!! I can only imagine how many simply slipped through the cracks.

Gun ownership and access is a double-edged sword, which we must taken with the Grace of God.  It is a responsibility which we must take to heart in prayer, just as all other aspects of the freedom of free-will, no human event or circumstance is without consequences.  If we manufacture and distribute guns, inevitably those people who we don't want to have firearms will gain access.  California's model has proven that if you limit fire-arm access in general, you reduce the number of illegal guns on the street and you save lives.  It is a fallacy to say that American citizens need guns to protect themselves from armed criminals, because it is a circular argument, as the illegal guns are stolen or bought from the very same legitimate  owners and dealers.  It is a catch-22 Sad

I respect people's right to own firearms, but folks must be reasonable and not over-enthusiastic, we should remember guns are tools, but they are tools precisely designed to harm, and should be then taken with grave responsibility and all-seriousness. After all, what really is the legitimate use of a pistol in the first place? Rifles I understand, but pistols?

My testimony as a Californian is that gun-control works, folks can debate this with me all they'd like, but the reality of the crime on our streets being reduced speaks volumes for itself.  


Sorry for the politics but this issue is very personal to me, several of my friends and family have either bullet holes or even the bullets still remaining in their bodies, and several others are dead and buried in the cemetery God Rest Their Souls..

stay blessed,
habte selassie
Well thank God I can still buy a gun at my local Wal-Mart and flea market.

PP

It's not nearly as bad as he makes it sound in California, I've bought 3 guns over the last year and other than the annoying 10 day waiting period and some plain weird restrictions on handguns (my brother had to buy a black M1911 last year because for some reason the stainless model wasn't available in California...exact same gun and same manufacturer...go figure) it's not really that bad. Even most the restrictions on assault weapons have either expired or are easily circumvented and gun shows are still alive and well, they just need a local gun dealer to be present to rubber-stamp all the deals. I'd like fewer gun laws, but it's not exactly like we're living in England.

I don't understand by what you mean by "makes it sound in California" because I never said anything in that quote or in any other posts other then that existing gun-control laws work, I never suggested anything about the extent or details of the laws, only reiterated that they have indeed effectively served their purpose by successfully limiting gun purchases and in correlation subsequent gun-violence.  The numbers speak for themselves..

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/0816firearms0816.html
http://www.lcav.org/states/california.asp
http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_brady_bill.

Again, I have no problems with Americans lawfully owning fire-arms, and gun-control is a matter of limiting the supply side which in turn has trickled down and consistently reduced gun-violence.  All y'all Americans who want to own guns are surely free to express your Constitutional rights, however there are appropriate laws already in effect which define the extent of these rights, and I feel they are excellent laws.

In 1992 there were over 3000 homicides in Los Angeles County alone, and in 2011 there were just over 1000.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

My point is that gun laws in California are ineffective at curtailing distribution, I was just speaking of legal channels, but if I wanted an unregistered gun from Mexico with no serial number that's pretty easy to come by as well. You give these statistics yet ignore that crime rates are lower in areas where guns are more readily available to law abiding citizens. Personally, I think it is all cultural, they type of people who want to buy guns legally will vote for lax gun laws and happen to also be the kind of people who are law abiding citizens, those who get their guns from the black market and don't care about gun laws probably aren't law abiding citizens...generally speaking. Likewise a lot has changed culturally not only in L.A. but around the country over the last 20 years, to ignore all the complex motivations behind murder and suggest that violent crime rate is reduced because of gun laws is absurd for two reasons: first, it far too simplistic of an argument and, second, there are more guns out there and available today than there were in 1992.
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« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2012, 10:21:28 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

God Bless California, which has been brave enough to legislate strict gun-control regulations which have literally saved our state from the pitfalls of gun-violence which peaked in the early 1990s.  When I was a kid, you could find gun shops all over town, and you could buy pistols at discount department stores...

Needless to say we had a lot of gun-violence.  The  secret about guns in America is that ALL the illegal guns used by criminals are stolen from legitimate dealers, retailers, collectors, and whole-sale distributors.  In 2009 the Department of Justice revealed that over 30,000 firearms alone were reported missing by American gun sellers, AND THOSE ARE JUST WHAT IS REPORTED!! I can only imagine how many simply slipped through the cracks.

Gun ownership and access is a double-edged sword, which we must taken with the Grace of God.  It is a responsibility which we must take to heart in prayer, just as all other aspects of the freedom of free-will, no human event or circumstance is without consequences.  If we manufacture and distribute guns, inevitably those people who we don't want to have firearms will gain access.  California's model has proven that if you limit fire-arm access in general, you reduce the number of illegal guns on the street and you save lives.  It is a fallacy to say that American citizens need guns to protect themselves from armed criminals, because it is a circular argument, as the illegal guns are stolen or bought from the very same legitimate  owners and dealers.  It is a catch-22 Sad

I respect people's right to own firearms, but folks must be reasonable and not over-enthusiastic, we should remember guns are tools, but they are tools precisely designed to harm, and should be then taken with grave responsibility and all-seriousness. After all, what really is the legitimate use of a pistol in the first place? Rifles I understand, but pistols?

My testimony as a Californian is that gun-control works, folks can debate this with me all they'd like, but the reality of the crime on our streets being reduced speaks volumes for itself.  


Sorry for the politics but this issue is very personal to me, several of my friends and family have either bullet holes or even the bullets still remaining in their bodies, and several others are dead and buried in the cemetery God Rest Their Souls..

stay blessed,
habte selassie
Well thank God I can still buy a gun at my local Wal-Mart and flea market.

PP

It's not nearly as bad as he makes it sound in California, I've bought 3 guns over the last year and other than the annoying 10 day waiting period and some plain weird restrictions on handguns (my brother had to buy a black M1911 last year because for some reason the stainless model wasn't available in California...exact same gun and same manufacturer...go figure) it's not really that bad. Even most the restrictions on assault weapons have either expired or are easily circumvented and gun shows are still alive and well, they just need a local gun dealer to be present to rubber-stamp all the deals. I'd like fewer gun laws, but it's not exactly like we're living in England.

I don't understand by what you mean by "makes it sound in California" because I never said anything in that quote or in any other posts other then that existing gun-control laws work, I never suggested anything about the extent or details of the laws, only reiterated that they have indeed effectively served their purpose by successfully limiting gun purchases and in correlation subsequent gun-violence.  The numbers speak for themselves..

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/0816firearms0816.html
http://www.lcav.org/states/california.asp
http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_brady_bill.

Again, I have no problems with Americans lawfully owning fire-arms, and gun-control is a matter of limiting the supply side which in turn has trickled down and consistently reduced gun-violence.  All y'all Americans who want to own guns are surely free to express your Constitutional rights, however there are appropriate laws already in effect which define the extent of these rights, and I feel they are excellent laws.

In 1992 there were over 3000 homicides in Los Angeles County alone, and in 2011 there were just over 1000.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

My point is that gun laws in California are ineffective at curtailing distribution, I was just speaking of legal channels, but if I wanted an unregistered gun from Mexico with no serial number that's pretty easy to come by as well. You give these statistics yet ignore that crime rates are lower in areas where guns are more readily available to law abiding citizens. Personally, I think it is all cultural, they type of people who want to buy guns legally will vote for lax gun laws and happen to also be the kind of people who are law abiding citizens, those who get their guns from the black market and don't care about gun laws probably aren't law abiding citizens...generally speaking. Likewise a lot has changed culturally not only in L.A. but around the country over the last 20 years, to ignore all the complex motivations behind murder and suggest that violent crime rate is reduced because of gun laws is absurd for two reasons: first, it far too simplistic of an argument and, second, there are more guns out there and available today than there were in 1992.

You are a logical thinker GIC. Too bad I am not having the pleasure of your company in the communion line.
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« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2012, 10:25:10 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

God Bless California, which has been brave enough to legislate strict gun-control regulations which have literally saved our state from the pitfalls of gun-violence which peaked in the early 1990s.  When I was a kid, you could find gun shops all over town, and you could buy pistols at discount department stores...

Needless to say we had a lot of gun-violence.  The  secret about guns in America is that ALL the illegal guns used by criminals are stolen from legitimate dealers, retailers, collectors, and whole-sale distributors.  In 2009 the Department of Justice revealed that over 30,000 firearms alone were reported missing by American gun sellers, AND THOSE ARE JUST WHAT IS REPORTED!! I can only imagine how many simply slipped through the cracks.

Gun ownership and access is a double-edged sword, which we must taken with the Grace of God.  It is a responsibility which we must take to heart in prayer, just as all other aspects of the freedom of free-will, no human event or circumstance is without consequences.  If we manufacture and distribute guns, inevitably those people who we don't want to have firearms will gain access.  California's model has proven that if you limit fire-arm access in general, you reduce the number of illegal guns on the street and you save lives.  It is a fallacy to say that American citizens need guns to protect themselves from armed criminals, because it is a circular argument, as the illegal guns are stolen or bought from the very same legitimate  owners and dealers.  It is a catch-22 Sad

I respect people's right to own firearms, but folks must be reasonable and not over-enthusiastic, we should remember guns are tools, but they are tools precisely designed to harm, and should be then taken with grave responsibility and all-seriousness. After all, what really is the legitimate use of a pistol in the first place? Rifles I understand, but pistols?

My testimony as a Californian is that gun-control works, folks can debate this with me all they'd like, but the reality of the crime on our streets being reduced speaks volumes for itself.  


Sorry for the politics but this issue is very personal to me, several of my friends and family have either bullet holes or even the bullets still remaining in their bodies, and several others are dead and buried in the cemetery God Rest Their Souls..

stay blessed,
habte selassie
Well thank God I can still buy a gun at my local Wal-Mart and flea market.

PP

It's not nearly as bad as he makes it sound in California, I've bought 3 guns over the last year and other than the annoying 10 day waiting period and some plain weird restrictions on handguns (my brother had to buy a black M1911 last year because for some reason the stainless model wasn't available in California...exact same gun and same manufacturer...go figure) it's not really that bad. Even most the restrictions on assault weapons have either expired or are easily circumvented and gun shows are still alive and well, they just need a local gun dealer to be present to rubber-stamp all the deals. I'd like fewer gun laws, but it's not exactly like we're living in England.

I don't understand by what you mean by "makes it sound in California" because I never said anything in that quote or in any other posts other then that existing gun-control laws work, I never suggested anything about the extent or details of the laws, only reiterated that they have indeed effectively served their purpose by successfully limiting gun purchases and in correlation subsequent gun-violence.  The numbers speak for themselves..

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/0816firearms0816.html
http://www.lcav.org/states/california.asp
http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_brady_bill.

Again, I have no problems with Americans lawfully owning fire-arms, and gun-control is a matter of limiting the supply side which in turn has trickled down and consistently reduced gun-violence.  All y'all Americans who want to own guns are surely free to express your Constitutional rights, however there are appropriate laws already in effect which define the extent of these rights, and I feel they are excellent laws.

In 1992 there were over 3000 homicides in Los Angeles County alone, and in 2011 there were just over 1000.

stay blessed,
habte selassie


The top three states for gun murders in 2010 were, in order, California, Texas and New York. While Texas has lax gun control laws, California and New York are among the strictest gun-control states in the country.
 
“California is in a category of its own as far as gun control laws there,” Parsons said. “New York is a little bit better, but they still have discretionary concealed carry laws.”
 
According to FBI data, California had the most gun murders last year —- 1,257, which is 69 percent of all murders in 2010.


Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2011/09/28/gun-crime-continues-to-decrease-despite-increase-in-gun-ownership/#ixzz1jCsl0Dxt

The FBI says that you are not telling the truth.
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« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2012, 10:53:43 PM »

I think it has something to do with people preparing for that 2012 end of the world stuff, TBH

I think it has more to do with people seeing their liberty threatened from their government and taking necessary steps to prevent it.
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« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2012, 11:45:46 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

God Bless California, which has been brave enough to legislate strict gun-control regulations which have literally saved our state from the pitfalls of gun-violence which peaked in the early 1990s.  When I was a kid, you could find gun shops all over town, and you could buy pistols at discount department stores...

Needless to say we had a lot of gun-violence.  The  secret about guns in America is that ALL the illegal guns used by criminals are stolen from legitimate dealers, retailers, collectors, and whole-sale distributors.  In 2009 the Department of Justice revealed that over 30,000 firearms alone were reported missing by American gun sellers, AND THOSE ARE JUST WHAT IS REPORTED!! I can only imagine how many simply slipped through the cracks.

Gun ownership and access is a double-edged sword, which we must taken with the Grace of God.  It is a responsibility which we must take to heart in prayer, just as all other aspects of the freedom of free-will, no human event or circumstance is without consequences.  If we manufacture and distribute guns, inevitably those people who we don't want to have firearms will gain access.  California's model has proven that if you limit fire-arm access in general, you reduce the number of illegal guns on the street and you save lives.  It is a fallacy to say that American citizens need guns to protect themselves from armed criminals, because it is a circular argument, as the illegal guns are stolen or bought from the very same legitimate  owners and dealers.  It is a catch-22 Sad

I respect people's right to own firearms, but folks must be reasonable and not over-enthusiastic, we should remember guns are tools, but they are tools precisely designed to harm, and should be then taken with grave responsibility and all-seriousness. After all, what really is the legitimate use of a pistol in the first place? Rifles I understand, but pistols?

My testimony as a Californian is that gun-control works, folks can debate this with me all they'd like, but the reality of the crime on our streets being reduced speaks volumes for itself.  


Sorry for the politics but this issue is very personal to me, several of my friends and family have either bullet holes or even the bullets still remaining in their bodies, and several others are dead and buried in the cemetery God Rest Their Souls..

stay blessed,
habte selassie
Well thank God I can still buy a gun at my local Wal-Mart and flea market.

PP

It's not nearly as bad as he makes it sound in California, I've bought 3 guns over the last year and other than the annoying 10 day waiting period and some plain weird restrictions on handguns (my brother had to buy a black M1911 last year because for some reason the stainless model wasn't available in California...exact same gun and same manufacturer...go figure) it's not really that bad. Even most the restrictions on assault weapons have either expired or are easily circumvented and gun shows are still alive and well, they just need a local gun dealer to be present to rubber-stamp all the deals. I'd like fewer gun laws, but it's not exactly like we're living in England.

I don't understand by what you mean by "makes it sound in California" because I never said anything in that quote or in any other posts other then that existing gun-control laws work, I never suggested anything about the extent or details of the laws, only reiterated that they have indeed effectively served their purpose by successfully limiting gun purchases and in correlation subsequent gun-violence.  The numbers speak for themselves..

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/0816firearms0816.html
http://www.lcav.org/states/california.asp
http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_brady_bill.

Again, I have no problems with Americans lawfully owning fire-arms, and gun-control is a matter of limiting the supply side which in turn has trickled down and consistently reduced gun-violence.  All y'all Americans who want to own guns are surely free to express your Constitutional rights, however there are appropriate laws already in effect which define the extent of these rights, and I feel they are excellent laws.

In 1992 there were over 3000 homicides in Los Angeles County alone, and in 2011 there were just over 1000.

stay blessed,
habte selassie


The top three states for gun murders in 2010 were, in order, California, Texas and New York. While Texas has lax gun control laws, California and New York are among the strictest gun-control states in the country.
 
“California is in a category of its own as far as gun control laws there,” Parsons said. “New York is a little bit better, but they still have discretionary concealed carry laws.”
 
According to FBI data, California had the most gun murders last year —- 1,257, which is 69 percent of all murders in 2010.


Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2011/09/28/gun-crime-continues-to-decrease-despite-increase-in-gun-ownership/#ixzz1jCsl0Dxt

The FBI says that you are not telling the truth.
Quote
Homicides in 1992 Set Record for L.A. County : Violence: 2,589 killings in 1992
http://articles.latimes.com/1993-01-05/local/me-819_1_los-angeles-county

Quote
The Homicide Report
THE TIMES CHRONICLES L.A. COUNTY HOMICIDE VICTIMS
Showing 624 homicides from Jan. 1, 2010 to Dec. 29, 2010
http://projects.latimes.com/homicide/map/?year=2010 (by the way you can read the names and stories behind all of these murders at this link Sad )
 
415% decrease over the past twenty years?

EVERY SINGLE DEATH IS AN ABSOLUTE TRAGEDY, AND EVERY SINGLE LIFE SAVED IS AN ABSOLUTE MIRACLE.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2012, 11:50:17 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

God Bless California, which has been brave enough to legislate strict gun-control regulations which have literally saved our state from the pitfalls of gun-violence which peaked in the early 1990s.  When I was a kid, you could find gun shops all over town, and you could buy pistols at discount department stores...

Needless to say we had a lot of gun-violence.  The  secret about guns in America is that ALL the illegal guns used by criminals are stolen from legitimate dealers, retailers, collectors, and whole-sale distributors.  In 2009 the Department of Justice revealed that over 30,000 firearms alone were reported missing by American gun sellers, AND THOSE ARE JUST WHAT IS REPORTED!! I can only imagine how many simply slipped through the cracks.

Gun ownership and access is a double-edged sword, which we must taken with the Grace of God.  It is a responsibility which we must take to heart in prayer, just as all other aspects of the freedom of free-will, no human event or circumstance is without consequences.  If we manufacture and distribute guns, inevitably those people who we don't want to have firearms will gain access.  California's model has proven that if you limit fire-arm access in general, you reduce the number of illegal guns on the street and you save lives.  It is a fallacy to say that American citizens need guns to protect themselves from armed criminals, because it is a circular argument, as the illegal guns are stolen or bought from the very same legitimate  owners and dealers.  It is a catch-22 Sad

I respect people's right to own firearms, but folks must be reasonable and not over-enthusiastic, we should remember guns are tools, but they are tools precisely designed to harm, and should be then taken with grave responsibility and all-seriousness. After all, what really is the legitimate use of a pistol in the first place? Rifles I understand, but pistols?

My testimony as a Californian is that gun-control works, folks can debate this with me all they'd like, but the reality of the crime on our streets being reduced speaks volumes for itself.  


Sorry for the politics but this issue is very personal to me, several of my friends and family have either bullet holes or even the bullets still remaining in their bodies, and several others are dead and buried in the cemetery God Rest Their Souls..

stay blessed,
habte selassie
Well thank God I can still buy a gun at my local Wal-Mart and flea market.

PP

It's not nearly as bad as he makes it sound in California, I've bought 3 guns over the last year and other than the annoying 10 day waiting period and some plain weird restrictions on handguns (my brother had to buy a black M1911 last year because for some reason the stainless model wasn't available in California...exact same gun and same manufacturer...go figure) it's not really that bad. Even most the restrictions on assault weapons have either expired or are easily circumvented and gun shows are still alive and well, they just need a local gun dealer to be present to rubber-stamp all the deals. I'd like fewer gun laws, but it's not exactly like we're living in England.

I don't understand by what you mean by "makes it sound in California" because I never said anything in that quote or in any other posts other then that existing gun-control laws work, I never suggested anything about the extent or details of the laws, only reiterated that they have indeed effectively served their purpose by successfully limiting gun purchases and in correlation subsequent gun-violence.  The numbers speak for themselves..

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/0816firearms0816.html
http://www.lcav.org/states/california.asp
http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_brady_bill.

Again, I have no problems with Americans lawfully owning fire-arms, and gun-control is a matter of limiting the supply side which in turn has trickled down and consistently reduced gun-violence.  All y'all Americans who want to own guns are surely free to express your Constitutional rights, however there are appropriate laws already in effect which define the extent of these rights, and I feel they are excellent laws.

In 1992 there were over 3000 homicides in Los Angeles County alone, and in 2011 there were just over 1000.

stay blessed,
habte selassie


The top three states for gun murders in 2010 were, in order, California, Texas and New York. While Texas has lax gun control laws, California and New York are among the strictest gun-control states in the country.
 
“California is in a category of its own as far as gun control laws there,” Parsons said. “New York is a little bit better, but they still have discretionary concealed carry laws.”
 
According to FBI data, California had the most gun murders last year —- 1,257, which is 69 percent of all murders in 2010.


Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2011/09/28/gun-crime-continues-to-decrease-despite-increase-in-gun-ownership/#ixzz1jCsl0Dxt

The FBI says that you are not telling the truth.
Quote
Homicides in 1992 Set Record for L.A. County : Violence: 2,589 killings in 1992
http://articles.latimes.com/1993-01-05/local/me-819_1_los-angeles-county

Quote
The Homicide Report
THE TIMES CHRONICLES L.A. COUNTY HOMICIDE VICTIMS
Showing 624 homicides from Jan. 1, 2010 to Dec. 29, 2010
http://projects.latimes.com/homicide/map/?year=2010 (by the way you can read the names and stories behind all of these murders at this link Sad )
 
415% decrease over the past twenty years?

EVERY SINGLE DEATH IS AN ABSOLUTE TRAGEDY, AND EVERY SINGLE LIFE SAVED IS AN ABSOLUTE MIRACLE.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

With a huge increase in gun ownership in that time.  Your point cannot be made.
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« Reply #23 on: January 12, 2012, 12:20:17 AM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!



With a huge increase in gun ownership in that time.  Your point cannot be made.

I beg to differ:

According to the California Department of Justice, in 1992 there just over 400,000 recorded hand gun sales in California and the trend was consistently near 400,000 per year from 1981-1992. In 2009 there were just over 200,000 recorded hand gun sales, and the trend from 2000-2009 was just around 200,000 per year.  [http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/pdfs/firearms/forms/pdf/droschart2009.pdf]

However, regardless of if my or your analysis is correct or not, the homicides in California and Los Angeles in particular are down significantly, and that is miraculous enough for me Smiley

Lord Have Mercy on the Souls of Those departed.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #24 on: January 12, 2012, 01:15:59 AM »

I think it has something to do with people preparing for that 2012 end of the world stuff, TBH

I think it has more to do with people seeing their liberty threatened from their government and taking necessary steps to prevent it.

As Thomas Jefferson authenticated: A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

The Second Amendment, I believe.
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« Reply #25 on: January 12, 2012, 01:26:50 AM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

However, I do think that regardless of how strict the gun control laws are, you will always have thugs who have access to guns.  Thugs or criminals dont care about the law, so I doubt they would care about any gun control laws.  And I dont think, even with the recent fears of this, that our constitution would ever allow the government to truly get rid of all the guns.

But you misunderstand the fundamental premise behind gun control, which is to limit the over-all manufacturing and distribution of firearms by putting limits and restrictions on the market. Criminals steal their guns from the same places honest folks buy them, and that precisely is the problem and precisely what gun-control is designed to restrict, OVERALL distribution.  True, criminals will always find weapons, but that is why we as a society try our best to restrict and limit such in the first place.  If there are less guns out there, there are less guns to steal.  Again, recall that 30,000 alone are reported "missing" from honest and legitimate retailers, clearly there needs to be some more measures of control.  That is control, not necessarily elimination.  Folks are rightfully upset over the fiasco of the ATF operation Fast and Furious were just a handful of guns were intentionally released to criminals and big surprise, not only did innocent people get killed but even a federal law enforcement officer by these exact same missing firearms!! If only a relative handful of missing weapons did that much damage and loss of life, imagine what harm 30,000 could do and have done already?

 No one is suggesting no Americans shouldn't necessarily have access to fire-arms, the question is one of over-all quantity.

Again, sorry to be political, but as I said before, this is a deeply personal issue for me, my family, and my community at large.  God Bless the Souls of those departed by this plague of gun-violence,  May He guide us by His Spirit to be as responsible as we weak human beings can be.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

stay blessed,
habte selassie

So, if people start beating and killing each other with baseball bats, would you be in favor of restricting and licensing the sale of baseball bats? How many legally licensed gun owners committed violence with their guns compared to those who aren't licensed? Keep the government out of our lives!!
« Last Edit: January 12, 2012, 01:27:34 AM by Spartan563 » Logged
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« Reply #26 on: January 12, 2012, 01:37:31 AM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

However, I do think that regardless of how strict the gun control laws are, you will always have thugs who have access to guns.  Thugs or criminals dont care about the law, so I doubt they would care about any gun control laws.  And I dont think, even with the recent fears of this, that our constitution would ever allow the government to truly get rid of all the guns.

But you misunderstand the fundamental premise behind gun control, which is to limit the over-all manufacturing and distribution of firearms by putting limits and restrictions on the market. Criminals steal their guns from the same places honest folks buy them, and that precisely is the problem and precisely what gun-control is designed to restrict, OVERALL distribution.  True, criminals will always find weapons, but that is why we as a society try our best to restrict and limit such in the first place.  If there are less guns out there, there are less guns to steal.  Again, recall that 30,000 alone are reported "missing" from honest and legitimate retailers, clearly there needs to be some more measures of control.  That is control, not necessarily elimination.  Folks are rightfully upset over the fiasco of the ATF operation Fast and Furious were just a handful of guns were intentionally released to criminals and big surprise, not only did innocent people get killed but even a federal law enforcement officer by these exact same missing firearms!! If only a relative handful of missing weapons did that much damage and loss of life, imagine what harm 30,000 could do and have done already?

 No one is suggesting no Americans shouldn't necessarily have access to fire-arms, the question is one of over-all quantity.

Again, sorry to be political, but as I said before, this is a deeply personal issue for me, my family, and my community at large.  God Bless the Souls of those departed by this plague of gun-violence,  May He guide us by His Spirit to be as responsible as we weak human beings can be.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

stay blessed,
habte selassie

So, if people start beating and killing each other with baseball bats, would you be in favor of restricting and licensing the sale of baseball bats? How many legally licensed gun owners committed violence with their guns compared to those who aren't licensed? Keep the government out of our lives!!


+1
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« Reply #27 on: January 12, 2012, 05:34:07 AM »

America has a bizarre culture. 

 I think all cultures have their idiosyncrasies/oddities.  But what are you referring to here, Nektarios?
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« Reply #28 on: January 12, 2012, 05:34:07 AM »

While you're out crusading for more gun control, Habte, why not also get auto companies to lower the speed their cars can go?  How many teens are killed each year because of excessive speeding?  I think the fastest we can drive in America is 70mph; ain't no need for civilians' cars to go 180mph.  On a more serious note- When you outlaw guns, only outlaw's will have guns.  Thank God the great state of Missouri allows conceal and carry.  That reminds me, Habte, I need a few more boxes of 9mm shells.  Thanks, buddy!  Wink Grin
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« Reply #29 on: January 12, 2012, 10:20:52 AM »

America has a bizarre culture. 

 I think all cultures have their idiosyncrasies/oddities.  But what are you referring to here, Nektarios?

All cultures have lot's of things in common, with just a few glaring differences.  These are usually what get noticed.

"The manners and customs of the Lydians do not essentially vary from those of the Greeks, except in this prostitution of the young women."
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« Reply #30 on: January 12, 2012, 10:48:57 AM »

America has a bizarre culture. 

 I think all cultures have their idiosyncrasies/oddities.  But what are you referring to here, Nektarios?

The obsession with guns and otherwise acting like they live in a third world country.  The glorification of ignorance (do any first tier countries have a "debate" about teaching biology in schools?).   The whole consumer / over-consumption culture (of which owning guns merely as toys is very much a part of). 
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« Reply #31 on: January 12, 2012, 12:03:37 PM »

Whoever mentioned that California isnt the only place where crime has decreased makes a good point.  I live in Atlanta and for a long time in was in the top 3-5 most dangerous cities in the country.  Lately, it has gotten way safer.  People in Georgia like their guns as much as anyone. Trust me.  I walked into a pawn shop and 10 minutes later walked out with a 12 gauge shot gun. Not in a case or anything.  Just carried it out. Ha!  There is a little more of a process for hand guns, but its still not that bad.  Just a 3 day wait for a background check I think. 

I would agree that a lot of the changes may be cultural as well.  Theres been a huge decrease in gang violence and I dont think it had to do with gun control. At least not around here.  Cali may be different.

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« Reply #32 on: January 12, 2012, 12:49:29 PM »

Whoever mentioned that California isnt the only place where crime has decreased makes a good point.  I live in Atlanta and for a long time in was in the top 3-5 most dangerous cities in the country.  Lately, it has gotten way safer.  People in Georgia like their guns as much as anyone. Trust me.  I walked into a pawn shop and 10 minutes later walked out with a 12 gauge shot gun. Not in a case or anything.  Just carried it out. Ha!  There is a little more of a process for hand guns, but its still not that bad.  Just a 3 day wait for a background check I think. 

I would agree that a lot of the changes may be cultural as well.  Theres been a huge decrease in gang violence and I dont think it had to do with gun control. At least not around here.  Cali may be different.



When I was a kid in Atlanta I remember going to a store once with my parents and the owner had a pair of .45 Colt pistols on his hips!
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« Reply #33 on: January 12, 2012, 01:29:57 PM »

America has a bizarre culture. 
Agreed. Guns'n'Twinkies.  Grin
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« Reply #34 on: January 12, 2012, 01:57:17 PM »

Hmmm, where is the Lydia place?

America has a bizarre culture. 

 I think all cultures have their idiosyncrasies/oddities.  But what are you referring to here, Nektarios?

All cultures have lot's of things in common, with just a few glaring differences.  These are usually what get noticed.

"The manners and customs of the Lydians do not essentially vary from those of the Greeks, except in this prostitution of the young women."

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« Reply #35 on: January 12, 2012, 02:00:59 PM »

Hmmm, where is the Lydia place?

America has a bizarre culture. 

 I think all cultures have their idiosyncrasies/oddities.  But what are you referring to here, Nektarios?

All cultures have lot's of things in common, with just a few glaring differences.  These are usually what get noticed.

"The manners and customs of the Lydians do not essentially vary from those of the Greeks, except in this prostitution of the young women."


Anatolia.
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« Reply #36 on: January 12, 2012, 02:50:52 PM »

America has a bizarre culture. 

 I think all cultures have their idiosyncrasies/oddities.  But what are you referring to here, Nektarios?

  The glorification of ignorance (do any first tier countries have a "debate" about teaching biology in schools?).   The whole consumer / over-consumption culture (of which owning guns merely as toys is very much a part of). 
America debates whether or not to teach biology?  A quick glance at any college catalog and one can see that you have no idea what you're talking about.  And while I agree that Western culture is way too consumeristic/materialistic and over-consumes, I'd bet anything that most people would love to be able to own guns.  Freedom not only gives us guns, guns give us freedom. 
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« Reply #37 on: January 12, 2012, 10:52:46 PM »

A Mayan conspiracy? I'm tellin' ya.. Roll Eyes

Bishop Hilarion in Austin TX of the Milan Synod is some kind of historian (I think professionally) on the Mayans.  He has said the whole calendar thing is a big bluff.   You can buzz him for more info.
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« Reply #38 on: January 13, 2012, 04:59:51 PM »

A Mayan conspiracy? I'm tellin' ya.. Roll Eyes

Bishop Hilarion in Austin TX of the Milan Synod is some kind of historian (I think professionally) on the Mayans.  He has said the whole calendar thing is a big bluff.   You can buzz him for more info.
I wouldn't be surprised if it was a big sham.

Even if it wasn't I would not put alot of stock into a group predicting the end of the world, but couldn't predict themselves getting their butts handed to them  Wink

PP
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« Reply #39 on: January 13, 2012, 05:11:50 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

A Mayan conspiracy? I'm tellin' ya.. Roll Eyes

Bishop Hilarion in Austin TX of the Milan Synod is some kind of historian (I think professionally) on the Mayans.  He has said the whole calendar thing is a big bluff.   You can buzz him for more info.
I wouldn't be surprised if it was a big sham.

Even if it wasn't I would not put alot of stock into a group predicting the end of the world, but couldn't predict themselves getting their butts handed to them  Wink

PP

A) Most Mayans accept this 2012 thing as a misunderstanding, because it is Western scholars who have come to these conclusions, not necessarily the Maya themselves, and there are millions of Mayans still living today who can surely speak for themselves.

B) It was the Aztecs who I think you are referring to "getting their butts handed to them" and gross insensitivity aside, both the Aztecs did in fact predict the ending of their civilization and further so to did the Maya who preceded them also predict their own ending to the Aztecs, which is precisely why the Maya abandoned their cities in the first place which the Aztecs later found emptied and so reoccupied.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #40 on: January 13, 2012, 05:44:44 PM »

America has a bizarre culture. 

 I think all cultures have their idiosyncrasies/oddities.  But what are you referring to here, Nektarios?

  The glorification of ignorance (do any first tier countries have a "debate" about teaching biology in schools?).   The whole consumer / over-consumption culture (of which owning guns merely as toys is very much a part of). 
America debates whether or not to teach biology?  A quick glance at any college catalog and one can see that you have no idea what you're talking about.  And while I agree that Western culture is way too consumeristic/materialistic and over-consumes, I'd bet anything that most people would love to be able to own guns.  Freedom not only gives us guns, guns give us freedom. 

Evolution is still debated in the US.  It isn't debated in first tier countries.  The bizarre populations of the US that voters consider a candidate who is educated and has a decent command of the standard language to be elitist isn't shared in first tier countries.  US culture is overly consumeristic - not Western culture: compare the percentage of two car families in Western Europe to the US, the square feet of house per person etc.  The longer I'm away from it (going on three years now), the less I miss many aspects of the American mentality. 

You'd be surprised that not everyone outside of the US dreams of owning a gun and moving to America.       

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« Reply #41 on: January 13, 2012, 05:55:04 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

A Mayan conspiracy? I'm tellin' ya.. Roll Eyes

Bishop Hilarion in Austin TX of the Milan Synod is some kind of historian (I think professionally) on the Mayans.  He has said the whole calendar thing is a big bluff.   You can buzz him for more info.
I wouldn't be surprised if it was a big sham.

Even if it wasn't I would not put alot of stock into a group predicting the end of the world, but couldn't predict themselves getting their butts handed to them  Wink

PP

A) Most Mayans accept this 2012 thing as a misunderstanding, because it is Western scholars who have come to these conclusions, not necessarily the Maya themselves, and there are millions of Mayans still living today who can surely speak for themselves.

B) It was the Aztecs who I think you are referring to "getting their butts handed to them" and gross insensitivity aside, both the Aztecs did in fact predict the ending of their civilization and further so to did the Maya who preceded them also predict their own ending to the Aztecs, which is precisely why the Maya abandoned their cities in the first place which the Aztecs later found emptied and so reoccupied.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

A: I would put money on it that some Mayan calendar writer in the mid-1200's was like "Hey boss, I've gotten the calendar all the way to [Mayan date corresponding to Dec. 21st, 2012 of the Gregorian Calendar], can I go home?  It's [Mayan Friday] and I'd like to catch the ball game."  Boss: "Yeah, take off.  I'll bet your [Mayan version of the Yankees] loose and all get their hearts cut out."  Then when they got to work on Monday their entire civilization had collapsed and they had no more time for calendar writing.  (And for what it's worth, the Mayan version of the Yankees had in fact lost and all got their hearts cut out.)

B: I didn't think the Aztecs ever got far enough south to colonize the Mayan cities?  There were still some Mayan city-states around in this period as well, the post-Classical civilizations of the Yucatan.  And the Conquistadores beat them as well...it just took a couple of attempts!
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« Reply #42 on: January 13, 2012, 05:58:34 PM »

America has a bizarre culture. 

 I think all cultures have their idiosyncrasies/oddities.  But what are you referring to here, Nektarios?

  The glorification of ignorance (do any first tier countries have a "debate" about teaching biology in schools?).   The whole consumer / over-consumption culture (of which owning guns merely as toys is very much a part of). 
America debates whether or not to teach biology?  A quick glance at any college catalog and one can see that you have no idea what you're talking about.  And while I agree that Western culture is way too consumeristic/materialistic and over-consumes, I'd bet anything that most people would love to be able to own guns.  Freedom not only gives us guns, guns give us freedom. 

Evolution is still debated in the US.  It isn't debated in first tier countries.  The bizarre populations of the US that voters consider a candidate who is educated and has a decent command of the standard language to be elitist isn't shared in first tier countries.  US culture is overly consumeristic - not Western culture: compare the percentage of two car families in Western Europe to the US, the square feet of house per person etc.  The longer I'm away from it (going on three years now), the less I miss many aspects of the American mentality. 

You'd be surprised that not everyone outside of the US dreams of owning a gun and moving to America.       



There is the problem that most of the public figures who are educated and have a decent grasp of the common language are elitist snobs.  This is really only noticeable when they are competing with another elitist snob who is poorly educated (Yale, pffft!) and doesn't have a grasp of the common language...then again, for every "Nucular" you have an "Austrian language".  Perhaps none of the elitist snobs have a grasp on the common language??
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« Reply #43 on: January 13, 2012, 06:01:16 PM »

America has a bizarre culture. 

 I think all cultures have their idiosyncrasies/oddities.  But what are you referring to here, Nektarios?

  The glorification of ignorance (do any first tier countries have a "debate" about teaching biology in schools?).   The whole consumer / over-consumption culture (of which owning guns merely as toys is very much a part of). 
America debates whether or not to teach biology?  A quick glance at any college catalog and one can see that you have no idea what you're talking about.  And while I agree that Western culture is way too consumeristic/materialistic and over-consumes, I'd bet anything that most people would love to be able to own guns.  Freedom not only gives us guns, guns give us freedom. 

Evolution is still debated in the US.  It isn't debated in first tier countries.  The bizarre populations of the US that voters consider a candidate who is educated and has a decent command of the standard language to be elitist isn't shared in first tier countries.  US culture is overly consumeristic - not Western culture: compare the percentage of two car families in Western Europe to the US, the square feet of house per person etc.  The longer I'm away from it (going on three years now), the less I miss many aspects of the American mentality. 

You'd be surprised that not everyone outside of the US dreams of owning a gun and moving to America.       



There is the problem that most of the public figures who are educated and have a decent grasp of the common language are elitist snobs.  This is really only noticeable when they are competing with another elitist snob who is poorly educated (Yale, pffft!) and doesn't have a grasp of the common language...then again, for every "Nucular" you have an "Austrian language".  Perhaps none of the elitist snobs have a grasp on the common language??

But that's just it - I want someone who is elitist running the country.  I don't want someone that could just as easily be a plumber as president.  Education and erudition are scorned in such a system. 
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« Reply #44 on: January 13, 2012, 06:51:04 PM »


A) Most Mayans accept this 2012 thing as a misunderstanding, because it is Western scholars who have come to these conclusions, not necessarily the Maya themselves, and there are millions of Mayans still living today who can surely speak for themselves.

B) ....
stay blessed,
habte selassie
Mayans are speaking for themselves: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/story/2011/12/29/sk-mayan-calendar-1229.html

I find it fascinating that "Western scholars" take so seriously Mayan predictions about the end of the world as we know it, but ridicule mercilessly any Christian who tries to do the same.

Fascinating in much the same way that Americans want a gun in one hand and a Twinkie in the other.

(I'm trying to find a way to bring this back to a discussion about guns  Cheesy)
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