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Author Topic: Official Coptic stance on the brothers of Christ?  (Read 699 times) Average Rating: 0
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Seafra
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« on: January 08, 2012, 12:10:46 PM »

Hello i was just curious of the coptic stance os the understanding of the brothers. Are they viewed as cousins, sons of Joseph or countrymen? I have heard all the above by many EO, would just like some clarity if possible.
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Jonathan
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« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2012, 01:18:35 PM »

There is no official dogmatic stance that must be believed, as this is not a theological issue, but a historical one. That they are sons of St. Joseph from a previous marriage, or that they are cousins are both plausible possibilites.

Here is an article from a priest who believes that they are cousins: http://www.stmaryscopticorthodox.ca/content/articles/basics/jesus_brothers.pdf . However, someone told this priest in confession that they do not agree with him, and lean towards believing in the second marriage theory. This priest told him that that is fine, that both are possibilities and we can't know for sure.

What is important of course is that we accept the ever-virginity of the Theotokos.
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Seafra
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« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2012, 01:28:50 PM »

i tend to believe cousins from my readings of the crucifixion in the gospels. What brought it on was hearing that there is an icon that is supposed to have one of Josephs kids leading the donkey in the flight to Egypt. Personally i am a little set off by this as my understanding of Icons are that they, in part, teach theology. I was just hoping there was some official stance in Coptic church, but i understand that there is no real need for it.
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Jonathan
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« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2012, 01:30:08 PM »

i tend to believe cousins from my readings of the crucifixion in the gospels. What brought it on was hearing that there is an icon that is supposed to have one of Josephs kids leading the donkey in the flight to Egypt. Personally i am a little set off by this as my understanding of Icons are that they, in part, teach theology. I was just hoping there was some official stance in Coptic church, but i understand that there is no real need for it.

Is this icon from the Coptic tradition? or another?
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Seafra
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« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2012, 01:33:32 PM »

i tend to believe cousins from my readings of the crucifixion in the gospels. What brought it on was hearing that there is an icon that is supposed to have one of Josephs kids leading the donkey in the flight to Egypt. Personally i am a little set off by this as my understanding of Icons are that they, in part, teach theology. I was just hoping there was some official stance in Coptic church, but i understand that there is no real need for it.

Is this icon from the Coptic tradition? or another?
EO i heard about it on Ancient Faith Radio... i will see if i can find a picture...

Here we go here are two
http://www.atelier-st-andre.net/fr/images/oeuvres_icones/fuite_egypte.jpg

http://www.orthodox.net/ikons/flight-into-egypt-01.jpg
« Last Edit: January 08, 2012, 01:34:36 PM by Seafra » Logged
Jonathan
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« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2012, 01:38:04 PM »

Interesting. I was just curious because Coptic icons tend to be less strict about following rules than EO icons, so if it was Coptic I would be more likely to chalk it up to artistic interpretation. All the Coptic icons I've seen do not include this figure... I wonder what the source of this tradition is? Is there anything in the protoevangelium for example? Or is it something that entered EO tradition later?
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Seafra
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« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2012, 01:54:13 PM »

I am unsure Maybe an EO would stumble in and share their understanding.
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« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2012, 05:09:39 PM »

The EO have two iconographic traditions: the youth leading the donkey (if it is not St Joseph himself leading it) is either St James, Brother of the Lord (as in the second icon), or an angel of the Lord, with or without wings.
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Seafra
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It's in the shelter of each other that people live

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« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2012, 05:16:41 PM »

The EO have two iconographic traditions: the youth leading the donkey (if it is not St Joseph himself leading it) is either St James, Brother of the Lord (as in the second icon), or an angel of the Lord, with or without wings.
thank you im assuming St James is following behind in the second one as well correct?
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« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2012, 05:22:02 PM »

The EO have two iconographic traditions: the youth leading the donkey (if it is not St Joseph himself leading it) is either St James, Brother of the Lord (as in the second icon), or an angel of the Lord, with or without wings.
thank you im assuming St James is following behind in the second one as well correct?

Yes. The second icon shows St James following the donkey.
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